Daniel Craig = New Timothy Dalton?

Jarvio

Just had a thought what with the recent panic of bond23 being suspended and the possibility of Daniel Craig not returning... Made me think of Timothy Dalton. He was supposed to do a 3rd film (The Property Of A Lady) but then it got cancelled, and we didn't get another bond film until quite some time after (GE - 6 year gap after LTK)... Timothy Dalton having 2 bond films in total.

Will it be a similar case with DC? Large gap between QOS and bond23, with somebody else playing bond when bond23 eventually reaches us? With DC having 2 bond films in total?

Loeffelholz

I expect this will become a fairly common hypothesis, particularly among those who've never been particularly fond of Craigger in the role...a classic and not unpredictable manifestation of "Wishful Thinking" :007)

Certainly, if the financial idiocy surrounding MGM continues for an inordinate amount of time, such a thing is possible. The magnitude of this folly becomes more apparent with each passing day, and of course the Timothy Dalton historical model gives a precedent for such a thing.

Personally, I'm hoping history does not repeat itself...but a quick look around at the world in which we live gives no comfort that humanity is willing to learn from history

darenhat

While I expect a significant delay before Bond 23 proceeds, I really doubt that it will be as long as the infamous 89-95 dearth. Back then, it was the Bond rights that were in dispute, halting any possible production. In this case, it's the existence of MGM that's in question. Once MGM's fate is determined, then hopefully we'll see Bond 23 move forward unhindered and at full speed...with Daniel Craig in the role.

Loeffelholz

Hope you're right, DH...I've run the gamut of emotions on this issue---from denial to anger to acceptance, hopefulness to cynical pessimism...and back to anger X-(

As long as MGM isn't looking to Greece and Portugal for financial backing ...or California or the United States, for that matter

Number24

Perhaps the Icelanders could be asked to finance the movie? )

The Stinger

There's a title idea hiding there, Number24 - Ash & Smoke )

I certainly hope we won't have a second Dalton here with Craig. Being one of the many sceptics when he was announced, I became one of the many converts when CR was released. QoS could have been a different movie than what was eventually released, so I still think a couple more outings as Bond (one ending the journey started in the first two movies, one a 'classic' Bond adventure just for the heck of it) would be more than welcome as far as I'm concerned.

That being said, Loeffelholz, I do share your misgivings about the outcome of MGM's financial situation. But be mindful, there are more than a few Sony execs who would be ecstatic to own the franchise distribution rights, lock, stock and barrel. So there may be some hope yet.

lloydpeek

Hello I am an Illustrator and I have recently illustrated James Bond. They are a set of unique drawings and I want to share them with people who like Bond as much as I do. With Sam Worthington tipped to be the new Bond it could be a chance to get a set of all the British actors as a set. Please follow the link below if you fancy a look.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/James-Bond-Posters-/280498910786?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_DVD_Film_TV_Film_Memorabilia_LE&hash=item414f09b642

Many thanks
Lloyd

Jarvio

lloydpeek wrote:

Hello I am an Illustrator and I have recently illustrated James Bond. They are a set of unique drawings and I want to share them with people who like Bond as much as I do. With Sam Worthington tipped to be the new Bond it could be a chance to get a set of all the British actors as a set. Please follow the link below if you fancy a look.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/James-Bond-Posters-/280498910786?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_DVD_Film_TV_Film_Memorabilia_LE&hash=item414f09b642

Many thanks
Lloyd

Well the pictures are good, but it has nothing to do with this particular thread

Hardyboy

Jarvio wrote:

lloydpeek wrote:

Hello I am an Illustrator and I have recently illustrated James Bond. They are a set of unique drawings and I want to share them with people who like Bond as much as I do. With Sam Worthington tipped to be the new Bond it could be a chance to get a set of all the British actors as a set. Please follow the link below if you fancy a look.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/James-Bond-Posters-/280498910786?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_DVD_Film_TV_Film_Memorabilia_LE&hash=item414f09b642

Many thanks
Lloyd

Well the pictures are good, but it has nothing to do with this particular thread

Absolutely. Lloyd, you are welcome at AJB, but please stop posting the same thing in different threads--especially as you are mainly advertising what you do. One member has already reported you as a spammer, and if more reports come our way, action will have to be taken. Thanks.

Brosnan_fan

Yes, this current mess Eon is in with MGM does remind me of the post-1989 debacle, and I've paused a moment to wonder what Craig himself feels about the whole thing; it would be most interesting if we could get his thoughts on it.

I wonder if he's talked to Dalton since this thing broke out? )

fire and ice

one noticable difference is that craigs movies were box office smashes. daltons were luke warm. surely the money they losing not maximizing what craig has already done for the franchise would hopefully give them a kick to sort the mess out sooner rather than later.

shaken66

This may have been addressed in this thread or others, and I can't remember reading about it in the papers, but obviously there's a contract between Eon and MGM or Eon could take this to another studio. Given the time value of the money, and the prospect of losing DC and the market, wouldn't it make sense for Eon to try to buy out the contract even for a seemingly excessive cost? I haven't heard or read anything about this prospect.

007

shaken66 wrote:

This may have been addressed in this thread or others, and I can't remember reading about it in the papers, but obviously there's a contract between Eon and MGM or Eon could take this to another studio. Given the time value of the money, and the prospect of losing DC and the market, wouldn't it make sense for Eon to try to buy out the contract even for a seemingly excessive cost? I haven't heard or read anything about this prospect.

I believe MGM have a share ownership in EON... what I don't get is that Bond 23 is a guaranteed money maker so would have thought this would get the green light. Having said that I'm positive there is a reason why they're not pushing ahead with it because it just doesn’t make sense does it...

stjimmy456

007 wrote:

shaken66 wrote:

This may have been addressed in this thread or others, and I can't remember reading about it in the papers, but obviously there's a contract between Eon and MGM or Eon could take this to another studio. Given the time value of the money, and the prospect of losing DC and the market, wouldn't it make sense for Eon to try to buy out the contract even for a seemingly excessive cost? I haven't heard or read anything about this prospect.

I believe MGM have a share ownership in EON... what I don't get is that Bond 23 is a guaranteed money maker so would have thought this would get the green light. Having said that I'm positive there is a reason why they're not pushing ahead with it because it just doesn’t make sense does it...

Yes Harry Saltzman sold his share in the initial company to United Artists I think in the 1960s, and MGM bought that share from them in the 1980s, so it's not as cut and dry as Eon switching studios, MGM hold certain Bond copyrights and trademarks I think.

And I think any company whose finances and ownership are in question would put everything on hold until things were sorted. What would happen if Bond23 began production and after a few months the studio was declared bankrupt -- they'd have a wasted project.

If MGM collapses they can always sell their share in Bond to somebody else like Sony I imagine.

Forgot to comment on the point of the thread -- If Craig were to have the same problem as Dalton then Bond23 would be released in (2007-) 2013, creating the same 6 year gap as 89-95. I can't see it taking that long, 2011/2012 seems a more realistic release date, but again, that is quite a gap.

I don't think Daniel Craig will be replaced by that time -- but as happened with Dalton, it was the actor who chose to step down, he wasn't 'replaced' -- if it gets to 2012 and production hasn't begun because of studio wranglings, then I'd imagine it highly possible that Craig would decide to give up and get on with other films.

down2000

fire and ice wrote:

one noticable difference is that craigs movies were box office smashes. daltons were luke warm. surely the money they losing not maximizing what craig has already done for the franchise would hopefully give them a kick to sort the mess out sooner rather than later.

I totally agree but there are a few other factors as to why we may have seen the last of Craig as 007.

1) Craig is could be developing into a star in his own right (Dalton was not) - after 4-5 years he may not want to be Bond
2) I think this mess potentially could be worse than 89-95. Bankruptcy could take a long time and MGM owns many valuable commodities like the Hobbit & Bond (I hear they are working on co-financing for the Hobbit now) MGM will not give it up so easily
3) Michael & Babs seems way bitter at MGM, could be a long fight ahead

Mister White

I believe I raised this point about two years ago, but everybody laughed it off then... :v

Napoleon Plural

It's the way you tell 'em.

THORNYBUSH

Jarvio wrote:

Just had a thought what with the recent panic of bond23 being suspended and the possibility of Daniel Craig not returning... Made me think of Timothy Dalton. He was supposed to do a 3rd film (The Property Of A Lady) but then it got cancelled, and we didn't get another bond film until quite some time after (GE - 6 year gap after LTK)... Timothy Dalton having 2 bond films in total.

Will it be a similar case with DC? Large gap between QOS and bond23, with somebody else playing bond when bond23 eventually reaches us? With DC having 2 bond films in total?

I realise we've had the MGM announcement recently confirming their future but you make a great point Jarvio. I think the 'Bond cycle' will revolve again. When 'they' feel the movies are in a rut, they go all serious & gadget free. They did it with Moore after the all singing/all dancing Moonraker and brought him back down to earth with FYEO and eventually bringing in Dalton for the gritty Bond. Big gap and the revamp and back to the 'Bond formula' with Brosnans Goldeneye, followed by 'scrap the formula' and introducing the gritty Craig. DG has done a great job (with Casino Royale - not the 'other' one - no appologies - QOS/thumbs down) but a return to 'a proper Bond movie' would require a new face.

superdaddy

I hope they get someone new.
i enjoyed Craigs two films as action films but to me its just not Bond, I honestly cant put my finger on it but Craig is not Bond to me
whereas all the previous 5 were [some better than others].
If Craig does 23 and ties up the Quantum rubbish [just my opinion] and Dench bows out at the end then reboot ,refresh or whatever you want to call it for 24 with new Bond, M and everything I would be happy.
As I this is just my opinion and what I would like to happen.

superdaddy

Forgot to say the 3 actors I would not mind taking over are Henry Cavill, Max Brown or Clive Standen, all are currently late twenties so would be the ideal age in say 2014 again just my opinion and what I would like to happen.

THORNYBUSH

superdaddy wrote:

Forgot to say the 3 actors I would not mind taking over are Henry Cavill, Max Brown or Clive Standen, all are currently late twenties so would be the ideal age in say 2014 again just my opinion and what I would like to happen.

Not familiar with the above but I've heard alot of talk about Richard Armitage (Spooks/Strike Back) in the role, he hasn't broken into films as yet and has a good TV pedigree - much the same as Moore & Brosnan.

....and I totally agree with you on the previous post. Casino Royale was top notch, QOS was dire. Bond has dissolved into 'Bourneville', let's get back to Bond.

Solaris

Richard Armitage has now been cast as Thorin Okensheild in the 2 Hobbit films, meaning he is definitely transitioning from television to cinema, my problem with him, although he fits the 'Fleming Description' of Bond well, is he has already played two "Bond - Lite" characters.

THORNYBUSH

Solaris wrote:

Richard Armitage has now been cast as Thorin Okensheild in the 2 Hobbit films, meaning he is definitely transitioning from television to cinema, my problem with him, although he fits the 'Fleming Description' of Bond well, is he has already played two "Bond - Lite" characters.

.....not sure that that would work against him? Moore had done 'The Saint' and made Bond his own, and after the gritty Dalton films they returned to the formula Bond with Brosnan who had done Remmington Steele. Just thinking they may decide after the Craig movies to return once more to the Bond formula with someone like Armitage with the TV background he has?

Phillip

I've listened to alot of opinions about who would be the right character to play James Bond,everyone thought that Clive Owen had it in the bag.Recently MI6 released a memo stating the criteria for an agent and one of those was that the potential prospect should not be over 5 ft tall this being an advantage of blending in to ones surroundings.I think that Daniel Craig brings a new fresh gritty approach to the role of JB relying more on his own strength,skill and stamina as opposed to the gadgets and gizmos in the prevoius movies.Why this approach was taken ...? I personally think because Matt Damon as Jason Bourne set the new benchmark and anything in the Bronson or Moore mould would hav just been too cheesy to swallow for audiences worldwide.I think Craig brings a new modern approach to the role today which we all can relate and identify with.;)

007 and a half

Phillip wrote:

I've listened to alot of opinions about who would be the right character to play James Bond,everyone thought that Clive Owen had it in the bag.Recently MI6 released a memo stating the criteria for an agent and one of those was that the potential prospect should not be over 5 ft tall this being an advantage of blending in to ones surroundings.I think that Daniel Craig brings a new fresh gritty approach to the role of JB relying more on his own strength,skill and stamina as opposed to the gadgets and gizmos in the prevoius movies.Why this approach was taken ...? I personally think because Matt Damon as Jason Bourne set the new benchmark and anything in the Bronson or Moore mould would hav just been too cheesy to swallow for audiences worldwide.I think Craig brings a new modern approach to the role today which we all can relate and identify with.;)

5 ft tall is too short for Bond ) and I don't recall seeing Bronson playing Bond either

nms75

Phillip wrote:

Recently MI6 released a memo stating the criteria for an agent and one of those was that the potential prospect should not be over 5 ft tall this being an advantage of blending in to ones surroundings.

5 feet??? ) ) ) ;% 8-) )

Thunderpussy

Any short agent could just pop in a set of "LIFTS " In his shoes as D Craig does. )

zaphod

nms75 wrote:

Phillip wrote:

Recently MI6 released a memo stating the criteria for an agent and one of those was that the potential prospect should not be over 5 ft tall this being an advantage of blending in to ones surroundings.

5 feet??? ) ) ) ;% 8-) )

James Bond is a fictional and idealised character. Any similarity or shared characteristics between him and a real operative is a miracle, and not to be welcomed.

Dalton is king of the hil

It would give people something to talk about if Craig becomes the next Dalton. Both wanted to keep Bond human and down to earth but if they both go before fullfillment of their contract, it would be quite something... History repeats itself. So who will be the next stand up comedian to take over the role and make something in Roger Moore style...? Hopefully that won't happen but you never know. I just hope that the guy who takes over after Craig will be someone who looks a little more like Bond. Craig is not at all a Bond type of guy - Lookwise. Bond is supposed to have black hair and look elegant.

Alessandra

I hope Craig doesn't end up being another Dalton or Brosnan, in that I do NOT like to see people mistreated. While I am no fan of Craig at all, I can deal with him doing Bond 23 and ending his "cycle". PROVIDED this happens by 2012. Any later than that in my opinion requires another actor, because both of the gap between movies being way too big and the fact the franchise at that point WILL need to be revamped, and that will require a new actor. I also don't think we're looking at such a big gap between movies... the post-Dalton situation was completely different from the current one. They need a partner for Bond so that's why they aren't doing anything still, but other than that, as soon as the financial side is taken care of (and I'm sure it will be) they'll start production. Because their two priorities are Hobbit and Bond. They made that clear (also because those are the only two guaranteed money makers they have).

That said, I think things aren't looking rosy at the moment. MGM said in bankruptcy statements that they need a production partner to take care of 50% of costs for Bond 23, and said partner is nowhere in sight right now. There isn't the shadow of a script and without that they can't cast people for roles. In short, it would take a miracle to get things going for a 2012 release, at MGM's and EON's ridiculously slow-paced working habits. It could be though that someone finally injects some sense and some efficiency into them (yeah I know, but hope springs eternal, and when there's shortage of money this is more likely to happen). So it may still happen. But, things need to get rolling ASAP for them to be able to release the movie in 2012. If they don't, I doubt Craig will even want to be involved in it. 2012 release is late enough for him (they wouldn't realistically be able to film earlier than the first half of 2012), anything beyond that, I doubt he will seriously consider. And, I don't think production partners will be ok with him being in a Bond movie any later than that, as well.

Again, much as I dislike Craig, I wish no ill on him and I really dislike when actors aren't treated fairly, so I do not want this to end badly for him at all. I'll be fine if he does Bond 23 and the movie is released in 2012, and I by all means hope that will be a drastic improvement from the horror that was QoS. For Craig and most of all for the franchise. I want to see Henry Cavill as the next Bond, so they better not mess this up!

James Bond is a fictional and idealised character. Any similarity or shared characteristics between him and a real operative is a miracle, and not to be welcomed.

I second that statement. One of my complaints about Craig is that he looks way too "average Joe" to be Bond. Bond is way above average, and I like him exactly for that reason.

HowardB

Regarding MGM finding a partner to produce Bond 23....IMO film companies will be lined up to be a partner in a Bond film; Sony would sign on in a minute so finding a production partner will not be an issue. As far as a script is concerned we really don't know what EON has or does not have. I'm guessing they have at least a concept for Bond 23 and while the public stance of EON was that production was completely halted who knows what was going on behind the scenes plus how long would it take an experienced team of writers to bang out a decent Bond script? As far as casting goes everything I have seen lately in the media is that Craig and Mendes are clear for Bond 23...supporting cast members shouldn't be a problem at all (lots of good charactor actors and beautiful female actors out there who could be villains, henchmen, Bond girls, etc). Bottom line is everything I'm seeing is pointing strongly to a mid to late November 2012 release date. The need for expediency may actually be a good thing....less time to overthink things and maybe force the production team to bring back a bit more of the traditional cinematic Bond.