Would Ian Fleming have approved of Daniel Craig?

mrbain007

Right I've seen quite a few viewpoints on this. Some say he would, some say he wouldn't. I wouldn't mind knowing what other people on this forum think. My gut feeling, having heard the stories, listened to the interviews and read the books is that he wouldn't have. He may very well like his darker style but I don't think he would have liked the way he looked.

Mr. Arlington Beech

If anything, his looks would have mattered the least. Flemming strongly disapproved of Connery being Bond, but he was so taken by his performance that he wrote into the novels that Bond had Scottish lineage.

I believe he would have approved.

emtiem

Difficult really; although he shares many characteristics with Fleming's Bond and appears in one of the more Fleming-y films, he's also pretty different from the character Fleming wrote. But he treats it very seriously and the tone is spot on for the books, even if the details aren't. All depends how wed Fleming was to the exact word of his books and character being translated.

7289

I feel very safe in speculating that Fleming would be happy with Craig and the success that he has acheived in the role.

Fleming's expierence with the movie bussiness was so difficult, I believe he realised that his strengths were writing the "thrillers", and not producing films. He recognised that film and literature are two very different arenas.

The point made above of IF not liking Connery is true, but he was so taken by the SC Bond that he emphasised Bond's Scottish background in the OHMSS novel - the first novel to come out after the Dr. No film was released.

mrbain007

I think the point entiem made above about the tone of the first DC film is spot on. The fact that CR is very faithful to the original book (arguably Fleming's darkest, most sombre novel) works in DC's favour and there is no doubt that he does a great job in capturing the mood of the character. Shame it kind of went off the rails after that tho in QoS.

I know IF disapproved of Sean Connery (originally he considered David Niven or James Mason in the role), but looking at him, he fits the physical description of the literature Bond closer than DC does. I just wonder whether he would have labelled Daniel Craig a little too much of a "brute".

youknowmyname

7289 wrote:

Fleming's expierence with the movie bussiness was so difficult, I believe he realised that his strengths were writing the "thrillers", and not producing films. He recognised that film and literature are two very different arenas.

I think this says it all. Fleming would've approved if DC took the character to a new place in films, which DC has. So, in that sense I believe Fleming would approve of Craigers.

Now, as far as DC looking the part...probably not according to novel standards, but neither did others. You could always argue that this or that actor doesn't quite portray Bond for the simple reason that we all have a different mental picture of what the literary Bond looks like.

perdogg

If Ian Fleming heard rumors about Craig being in a gay bar, let alone rumors about him kissing another man, I think he would have flipped.


FWIW

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/gossip/2010/05/star-sightings-daniel-craig-hits-gay-beach-bar-kim-kardashian.html

youknowmyname

perdogg wrote:

If Ian Fleming heard rumors about Craig being in a gay bar, let alone rumors about him kissing another man, I think he would have flipped.


FWIW

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/gossip/2010/05/star-sightings-daniel-craig-hits-gay-beach-bar-kim-kardashian.html

Tres interesting. There is a lot of buzz on the internet about this right now involving folks like the Enquirer (who "broke" the "story") and Perez Hilton (if you can't trust him who can you trust?).

We shall see how he responds, most likely it's just rumor fodder, but maybe...just maybe.

It would definitely take the Bond actor legacy in a new direction.

perdogg

youknowmyname wrote:

perdogg wrote:

If Ian Fleming heard rumors about Craig being in a gay bar, let alone rumors about him kissing another man, I think he would have flipped.


FWIW

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/gossip/2010/05/star-sightings-daniel-craig-hits-gay-beach-bar-kim-kardashian.html

Tres interesting. There is a lot of buzz on the internet about this right now involving folks like the Enquirer (who "broke" the "story") and Perez Hilton (if you can't trust him who can you trust?).

We shall see how he responds, most likely it's just rumor fodder, but maybe...just maybe.

It would definitely take the Bond actor legacy in a new direction.

This came from the LA Times, not by the Enquire

youknowmyname

perdogg wrote:

youknowmyname wrote:

perdogg wrote:

If Ian Fleming heard rumors about Craig being in a gay bar, let alone rumors about him kissing another man, I think he would have flipped.


FWIW

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/gossip/2010/05/star-sightings-daniel-craig-hits-gay-beach-bar-kim-kardashian.html

Tres interesting. There is a lot of buzz on the internet about this right now involving folks like the Enquirer (who "broke" the "story") and Perez Hilton (if you can't trust him who can you trust?).

We shall see how he responds, most likely it's just rumor fodder, but maybe...just maybe.

It would definitely take the Bond actor legacy in a new direction.

This came from the LA Times, not by the Enquire

If you do a little searching you will see that Enquirer broke the story first. People like Perez Hilton and the blogger at the LA times then picked up on the story from the Enquirer. The LA Times blog is simply a collective of celeb gossip from around the world of celeb rumors and sightings etc.

Loeffelholz

Actually, these days I'd put the Enquirer above most other State-Owned print entities---at least in terms of journalistic integrity...that said, this gay bar business is worth less than nothing. I've had a beer in a gay bar, simply because it was next to the train station. I was waiting for a train, and I was thirsty. So what? The bartender was a nice guy, and we chatted about politics whilst I read the paper. I've been served alcohol by a lot of female bartenders I'd never sleep with, as well

I'm only afraid of entering a drinking establishment if they have a stated policy against taller-than-average Americans of German descent with a Catholic background... B-) ...and I don't kid myself that such places couldn't possibly exist.

As for the kissing a man nonsense, this is probably an ancient trinket once treasured by the sad and desperate Craig-Haters at danielcraigspicturenexttoamonkey.com, whose boycott of CR was so successful it led to the picture making half a billion dollars at the box office.

7289

perdogg wrote:

If Ian Fleming heard rumors about Craig being in a gay bar, let alone rumors about him kissing another man, I think he would have flipped.


FWIW

One of Fleming's best personal friends was Noel Coward, an unabashed homosexual. Fleming suggested Coward play Dr. No in the EON production. Coward would have got the part but his reply to the offer was " No No No !".

I would doubt very much that a smooch in a gay bar would shock IF to the core and cause him to disavow DC as Bond.

Hardyboy

7289 wrote:

One of Fleming's best personal friends was Noel Coward, an unabashed homosexual. Fleming suggested Coward play Dr. No in the EON production. Coward would have got the part but his reply to the offer was " No No No !".

I would doubt very much that a smooch in a gay bar would shock IF to the core and cause him to disavow DC as Bond.

True, but while Fleming certainly liked Coward as a person, I'm not sure he entirely embraced homosexuality as a lifestyle and I don't think he understood it as a legitimate and healthy orientation. Look at the way gays are treated in Diamonds are Forever and Goldfinger, in which homosexuals are presented as damaged at best, warped and psychotic at worst. In GF, when Bond is contemplating Tilly's lesbianism, he thinks something to the effect of he feels sorry for gays but he has no time for them. That said, no, I don't think if Fleming saw Craig kissing another man he'd say Craig's not fit to play Bond. I would imagine him saying something on the lines of, "He's an actor--what do you expect?"

perdogg

Hardyboy wrote:

7289 wrote:

One of Fleming's best personal friends was Noel Coward, an unabashed homosexual. Fleming suggested Coward play Dr. No in the EON production. Coward would have got the part but his reply to the offer was " No No No !".

I would doubt very much that a smooch in a gay bar would shock IF to the core and cause him to disavow DC as Bond.

True, but while Fleming certainly liked Coward as a person, I'm not sure he entirely embraced homosexuality as a lifestyle and I don't think he understood it as a legitimate and healthy orientation. Look at the way gays are treated in Diamonds are Forever and Goldfinger, in which homosexuals are presented as damaged at best, warped and psychotic at worst. In GF, when Bond is contemplating Tilly's lesbianism, he thinks something to the effect of he feels sorry for gays but he has no time for them. That said, no, I don't think if Fleming saw Craig kissing another man he'd say Craig's not fit to play Bond. I would imagine him saying something on the lines of, "He's an actor--what do you expect?"

I think your assessnent of IF is probably correct. Harry Saltzman OTOH would have fired Craig.

7289

Interesting, how a gay DC isn't causing much of a ripple?

I thought the guy was on the verge of marrying Satsuki Mitchell (or whatever her name is).... seems more likely this "bar kissing" was fallout from the Capote film in which DC played a gay killer.

Napoleon Plural

I think they've edited that piece, nothing about Craig kissing a bloke in the link. He's on a gay beach, with a male pal, that's all.

7289

Maybe he was having a chat with Loeff's!!!!

Napoleon Plural

A chat with Loeff's what?

I imagine Loeffs would have something to say about that!

youknowmyname

Napoleon Plural wrote:

I think they've edited that piece, nothing about Craig kissing a bloke in the link. He's on a gay beach, with a male pal, that's all.

"Edited" the piece...right.

I love fine reporting :v

Loeffelholz

7289 wrote:

Maybe he was having a chat with Loeff's!!!!

No...never been on a gay beach...though there was a group of ladies listening to Melissa Etheridge on a boom box...

superado

Loeffelholz wrote:

7289 wrote:

Maybe he was having a chat with Loeff's!!!!

No...never been on a gay beach...though there was a group of ladies listening to Melissa Etheridge on a boom box...

Must have been a group of Thespians.

Loeffelholz

superado wrote:

Must have been a group of Thespians.

One of them was reading Marlene Dietrich's biography...and two others were reenacting the classic Brando/Steiger "Coulda been a contender" scene from On The Waterfront, so perhaps you're right.

superado

Loeffelholz wrote:

superado wrote:

Must have been a group of Thespians.

One of them was reading Marlene Dietrich's biography...and two others were reenacting the classic Brando/Steiger "Coulda been a contender" scene from On The Waterfront, so perhaps you're right.

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