Thunderball is a cracking read!
Napoleon Plural
LondonPosts: 10,308MI6 Agent
I was heading off to Paris on the Eurostar recently and needed some reading material.
I was going to pick the latest unread Flashman, but decided against it. Flashy is a great cynical, unPC and xenophobic read, but not the sort of thing to pick when you are going abroad and want to feel all open-minded. Mind you, I could do with George Macdonald Fraser's hero's amazing (and not quite plausible) ability to pick up languages. What's more, sometimes Flashman is a bit of a one-joke character, you sort of know what the joke is going to be, though it's set against different historical eras, which mixes things up a bit. Finally, I thought it's great to take a book you can jettison if needs, to make room for some souvenir tat, and I wasn't sure I'd finish Flashman and the Redskins.
Then I though, why not take a Bond book? I had, as a teenager, collected those old Pan paperbacks with as many as seven copies per title, for 10p a time. I had multiple copies of some of the covers. Of course, if you want to jettison a book, Devil May Care would be the best (you wouldn't even need to read it first!).
I picked Thunderball, the movie tie-in cover, the rougher version of the two I had. Parts of it are even set in Paris, where Spectre HQ is located, on Boulevard Haussmann. 'It is very long and very dull, but it is perhaps the solidest street in the whole of Paris. Not the richest - the Avenue d'Iena has that distinction - but rich people are not necessarily solid people...' In the film, the Paris connection is made stronger as the pre-credits is set just north of Paris, at Chateau d'Anet. 
I found TB to be immensely readable, it starts very strongly. Other books I can dip into, but some are a bit spotty (DAF, the first two thirds of YOLT, TMWTGG, even GF imo). Others are very good but I can't read them from start to finish too easily (CR and OHMSS, which both begin with a flash forward and also have downbeat endings). MR is set all in England and lacks the exotic touch.
TB is sort of the opposite to FRWL in that the villains don't make much of an entrance for the first 50 pages, it's all about Bond and his trip to the health clinic. Here, Bond comes across as a likeable fellow. I can't be alone in feeling the distinction between our charming film hero and the dour, lone-wolf sexual predator of Fleming's early novels. I get tired of reading about his 'rather cruel mouth' 'his eyes were like fierce slits' and so on. Here, Bond is more personable as he complains about the treatment meted out at a health farm, Shrublands. In fact, Bond is less of a sexual predator compared to other chacters in the book, namely the silky Count Lippe (The man was extremely handsome - a dark bronzed woman-killer with a neat moustache above the sort of callous mouth women kiss in their dreams.) Or Giuseppe Petacchi, who is turned by Spectre due to his lust for a flashy car which he could use to seduce women. Or Largo, who also is a bit of a womaniser, and not the older guardian of the film, being around 40 years old.
Perhaps this is because Fleming had TB in mind for the film and wanted to play down Bond's more antisocial aspects. You can picture Cary Grant in the role here, handome but amiable. (Coincidentally, when Connery redid the film in 1983, he resembled the Cary Grant of North by Northwest somewhat, a film namechecked in this book).
I was going to pick the latest unread Flashman, but decided against it. Flashy is a great cynical, unPC and xenophobic read, but not the sort of thing to pick when you are going abroad and want to feel all open-minded. Mind you, I could do with George Macdonald Fraser's hero's amazing (and not quite plausible) ability to pick up languages. What's more, sometimes Flashman is a bit of a one-joke character, you sort of know what the joke is going to be, though it's set against different historical eras, which mixes things up a bit. Finally, I thought it's great to take a book you can jettison if needs, to make room for some souvenir tat, and I wasn't sure I'd finish Flashman and the Redskins.
Then I though, why not take a Bond book? I had, as a teenager, collected those old Pan paperbacks with as many as seven copies per title, for 10p a time. I had multiple copies of some of the covers. Of course, if you want to jettison a book, Devil May Care would be the best (you wouldn't even need to read it first!).
I picked Thunderball, the movie tie-in cover, the rougher version of the two I had. Parts of it are even set in Paris, where Spectre HQ is located, on Boulevard Haussmann. 'It is very long and very dull, but it is perhaps the solidest street in the whole of Paris. Not the richest - the Avenue d'Iena has that distinction - but rich people are not necessarily solid people...' In the film, the Paris connection is made stronger as the pre-credits is set just north of Paris, at Chateau d'Anet. I found TB to be immensely readable, it starts very strongly. Other books I can dip into, but some are a bit spotty (DAF, the first two thirds of YOLT, TMWTGG, even GF imo). Others are very good but I can't read them from start to finish too easily (CR and OHMSS, which both begin with a flash forward and also have downbeat endings). MR is set all in England and lacks the exotic touch.
TB is sort of the opposite to FRWL in that the villains don't make much of an entrance for the first 50 pages, it's all about Bond and his trip to the health clinic. Here, Bond comes across as a likeable fellow. I can't be alone in feeling the distinction between our charming film hero and the dour, lone-wolf sexual predator of Fleming's early novels. I get tired of reading about his 'rather cruel mouth' 'his eyes were like fierce slits' and so on. Here, Bond is more personable as he complains about the treatment meted out at a health farm, Shrublands. In fact, Bond is less of a sexual predator compared to other chacters in the book, namely the silky Count Lippe (The man was extremely handsome - a dark bronzed woman-killer with a neat moustache above the sort of callous mouth women kiss in their dreams.) Or Giuseppe Petacchi, who is turned by Spectre due to his lust for a flashy car which he could use to seduce women. Or Largo, who also is a bit of a womaniser, and not the older guardian of the film, being around 40 years old.
Perhaps this is because Fleming had TB in mind for the film and wanted to play down Bond's more antisocial aspects. You can picture Cary Grant in the role here, handome but amiable. (Coincidentally, when Connery redid the film in 1983, he resembled the Cary Grant of North by Northwest somewhat, a film namechecked in this book).
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Comments
The whole build up is not unlike the trip to a haunted house, with dire imaginings uttered to the wary visitor.
The Shrublands stuff reads great because it seems so contemporary. You can imagine it filmed today, only with reiki, reflexoloby and colonic irrigation. In fact, one can imagine Bond giving Pat a nice foot massage, or wreaking revenge on Count Lippe through colonic, which certainly makes the eyes water.
"Bond recognised the voice. He peered through the door, which was slightly ajar. The nurse's back was to him, and lying on the couch he recognised the figure of Lippe. A sheet was hoisted up around his buttocks, and ahead of him a swirling scatalogical lava lamp depicted the brown swirling mass exiting in a water tank. Even with a tube up his ass, Lippe managed to sound aloof, the received pronunciation unaffected. Bond watched as the nurse continued to massage his stomach, pumping the excrement out of him. Bond quickly ignored the inner jokes about how long this might take for this kind of man. His eyes flickered up towards the shelf in front of him. On it was a brown bottle. The label read hydrocloric acid. Of course, taken neat might burn Lippe's anus and cause irreperrable damage. But a few droplets in the water tank would surely not be noticed for a good few minutes. And that would give Bond a chance to make his escape. Bond allowed himself a grim smile the churning noise masking his action as he reached forward for the beaker. At least this would solve the question of who would be the biggest pain in the ass in Shrublands...."
Lippe is miscast in the film Thunderball. In fact it's fairer to say that he is simply not the same character. Lippe is of 'Spanish or South American blood' whereas in the film he's played by officer type Guy Doleman, who played Palmer's boss in The Ipcress File. It's not a bad call; Connery's Bond is such an alpha male, you can't have two types like that in a movie, it would make the dual seem like petty sexual rivalry whereas in the film it seems more like class conflict.
Lippe is simply a boring hired thug in NSNA and is not even seemingly a member of Spectre, what's more he's bumped off by Bond and in no way hinders Spectre's plan, so there's no need for him to be killed by his superiors. Confusingly, Petachi is killed instead by Fatima Blush in a car, and this does echo the novel as instead of throwing a hand grenade into the car she throws a snake. Mind you, Fiona on a bike is closer to the book.
Actually, I've complained about how Bond doesn't really kill anyone much directly in NSNA for most of it, but for most of the novel it seems he doesn't kill anyone either. Another similarity is the joke he makes to Domino when she asks for a soft drink, a Bloody Mary "I'd hate to think what you mean by hard" is lifted straight from the novel.
A scene where he earlier meets her at a tobacconist, exactly as in the novel, was cut.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
The depiction of Spectre's meeting is so sleekly sinister, it makes you wish that Never Say Never Again had been a different kind of movie which had treated its subject matter as seriously as Connery seemed to take himself in the 1970s. It smacks of The Day of the Jackel. Today you would have flashbacks in Tarantino style showing how Blofeld dealt with previous betrayers: garroting the neck, shooting with an air pistol at a distance of 12 paces...
Fleming employs a couple of narrative tricks now. We hear of Spectre's demands and M and Bond's reaction to them. Then, and only then, do we read the separate account of how Petacchi came by the bombs, and get his backstory. His happy, counting-his-chickens anticipation of his sexual success once he's got his dosh is correctly homaged in the opening of Christopher Wood's Moonraker, when the RAF pilot daydreams about getting home to meet his girlfriend.
Later, Bond runs into Domino Petacchi and then we get a flashback as to how she came to be put in the frame. This non-chronological order avoids the grinding step-by-step plot advancement that is frankly a problem in both movie adaptations.
I haven't finished the novel yet. By page 122 things take a downturn, sadly with the arrival of Felix Leiter, usually a welcome addition, adding humour and humanity to Bond's dour persona. Here, as Bond is more amiable, he's less necessary and seems a bit of a bore, both he and Bond banging on about the use of frozen food when eating out , and Leiter rebuking a black bartender for not giving him the correct measure of drink (and Fleming giving his tacit approval to all this). It's like reading a restaurant review by AA Gill. Bond and his pal seem like a couple of old women, it's wholly at odds with the perilous situation they're in, they should be concentrating on the job. It also seems odd that he and Leiter are stumbling onto Largo, when it's been emphasised that any investigation and Spectre will let one of the bombs off in retaliation. Leiter here seems more like the character in the film Goldfinger, a bit of an amiable golf bore, the sort who shows up a drinks party held by the Robinsons in The Graduate, that very particular type of white, affluent American.
You also notice disparaging references to old farts at Shrublands and on the island of Nassau, and you can't help thinking they had to avoid that in NSNA, as Connery looks all of 60 in his film, even though he was early 50s.
Thunderball is only 230 so pages long, so with both films you do get the sense of padding going on after the prelude at Shrublands; the junkanoo festival, the use of Paula as a helper, the South of France thrown in as a location, the bike chase and so on. My point is that the first 100 pages are the most entertaining start of any Bond book. It's brilliant stuff, though you can't help slightly wondering if it isn't because Fleming his dealing with a third draft, and how much hand other writers such as McClory and Jack Wittington had in it...
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Bond goes back to his cruel self, having revealed to Domino that her brother is dead after banging her, he swiftly ropes her in to his dangerous plan with the geiger counter, then reflects that, oh well, she'll probably die on the ship having been found out by Largo, or if they have to sink it.
Finally, the ending has Bond and Leiter on a sub with a genial, laidback captain with a twinkle in his eye. It all reminded me of something, then it hit me - the film The Spy Who Loved Me! Bond is in a sub, prowling the enemy vessel and wondering whether to sink it, and worrying for the girl who is still on the craft - or is she still loyal to him? It's very much like when they are about to sink the Atlantis and Anya is on board. Of course, Spy was written to 'block' the upcoming TB remake by McClory, Warhead, so the similarity was probably deliberate.
The 'showdown' between Spectre and the submarine guys is only about 10 people vs 16, hardly the big scale showdown of the film. 'Allied' fatalities are mentioned peremptorily.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Really ? I'd take Van Nutter over Cec Linder any day of the week. Linder was too buttoned down and and look too old to be Bond's close friend.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Yes they never seen like close friends in the movies because they never had those intimate conversations about fast cars and food. The reason why Leiter and Bond are close friends is because they recognize the lonely and impersonal occupation they have and both have a passion for the same things. Another thing is they were rivals of sorts when it came to those subjects of cars and foods. They would gently poke fun of each others tastes. I am surprised none of this has made it to the films and it dosen't seem like it ever will.
http://apbateman.com
I'd say Lord gave a solid performance, but there was none of Leiter's easy-going humour in it- I couldn't imagine him swapping jazz-related wisecracks with one of Mr Big's henchmen, for example. Hedison maybe could have pulled that off, and Wright certainly could. Burton, Terry and Linder, no way, Van Nutter, possibly. A while back Hardyboy suggested Connor Trinneer (Star Trek: Enterprise) and I totally agree with that as a dream casting for Leiter. He's very much in Craig's age group and fits the bill physically. And yes, I could picture him swapping jazz-related wisecracks with one of Mr Big's henchmen.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
You mentioned that you felt the novel was both hindered and helped by being a third draft of a defunct screenplay and I also alluded to that in my 2009 review. I'm pleased you noted the chat with the cab driver too, that always felt a bit idiosyncratic for Fleming, and I believe it is definately a steal from the movie. Note Fleming later mentions Bond having some sexy fun with Pat on the back of her car! Very sixties!
I was intrigued by the similarities you drew to NSNA and to TSWLM, some of which I hadn't seen (blind as the proverbial bat again), and I think there is certainly mileage in what you suggest regarding McClory's speculative efforts.
I too was disappointed with Leiter in TB and in fact most of the characters, Blofeld aside, are poorly drawn. Perhaps the biggest loss to the book, but a gain to the movie(s) is the character of Fiona Volpe / Fatima Blush. In both cinematic versions she is far and away the best character on screen and the book misses her evil heart.
As you point out, there is no danger for Bond in the novel, he and Leiter are very relaxed about the fact two nuclear bombs are in the hands of a group of sophisticated nutters. It needed more tension and viciousness to spice it up. Largo torturing Domino with fire and ice (how exactly does he do that???) and shooting a rogue ally hardly puts Bond into peril.
All of this has always been curious to me, as TB is one of my favourite Bond movies and I have a soft spot for NSNA. Still I guess you can't have everything.
Despite McClory's often derided influence on 007, I do have to thank him for creating the skeleton of TB, which Fleming was able to hang a story on and Eon elaborate so successfully with.
p.s. I never knew they edited out the tobacco scene. How did that fit into the movie, or did they just replace it with the spa scenes?
Yes the story is a bit too laid back. I think the adaptation did a good job of throwing in some action scenes. The best one by far was the thugs and Fiona Valope chasing Bond during the Junkanoo and the conclusion at the Kiss Kiss Bang Bang club, just terrific. If I said it once I'll say it again, Thunderball is the classiest Bond flick you can watch.
I don't know about the tobacconist scene in NSNA, you can see the still of it, but otherwise it's hard to see how it would fit in before the massage scene. I don't know if the scene exists anywhere. With so much rewriting, you think they could make a great special edition out of NSNA or at least an interesting one. It could be that script doctors Clement and Le Frenais came along and rewrote things so the other scene was dropped, the massage scene to its credit refers back to Bond's time at Shrublands, with mention of tensions in the thorassic vertebrae or whatever it is...
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Yes, Napoleon, I think he does!
RE: NSNA the massage scene is very good, quite flirtacious, much better than the very obvious and borderline rude chat up lines about aphrodisiacs and chowder or whatever it was in TB.
I like the frankess Bond expressed to Domino in TB. I thought it was funny.
Roger Moore 1927-2017