Thunderball Geiger Watch Build Thread

2

Comments

  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    I dont thing Breitling would give out specs. Heck, I went on WUS to the Breitling section and asked people for some specs and there was a huge debate on the thread on whether of not I was to be trusted and if I was trying to build a replica Top Time. I really didnt want to spill the beans about the project but it didnt help much in the end. They made me feel like a criminal over there. I'll stick to sourcing this info from more friendlier sites:-)
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    Here are pictures of my spare dial:

    TopTimeDial001.jpg

    TopTimeDial002.jpg

    DG

    Could you measure that dial you have. Even without the ring, I can use it to size the dial shots I have with the ring and I should be able to get a better idea of sizing. Would need to be done with a caliber or the likes to be very accurate. That would be a great help.
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,190Quartermasters
    I would say that if you want to do the project right, you need to get yourself a real Breitling Top Time. Otherwise, how can you really do it? I mean if this is something you are serious about it behooves you to get all the required elements.

    As for the Breitling Forum on WUS, they do have a point. However, I don't see how you could get the watch to function properly and also be SA (screen accurate) if you do what they suspect. You see, you have the problem of the crown and pushers that are hidden. Items that are esential to making the watch run properly. Unless of course it is designed as a watch with a separate "over-case".

    The question is "will I provide measurements of my dial?" Well since I have provided book sources to an individual who now touts himself as an expert, I don't see why I can't help you. I don't have a digital caliper, but my watchmaker does. When I see him in a week or two, I'll bring my dial for measurement and I'll either post it here or PM you. It does not matter to me, because if you really want the information you can get it without my help. All it takes is dollars.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    I have a TT but it is away for service. I hadnt planned on these pieces falling into place when they did and now I am dying to get the watch back. I guess I am just excited:-)
    If you are there and have the dial, I would love to see the measurement. Thank you.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    We are moving forward with the over-case design. The next thing we have to consider is the material used. I would say SS right away but not sure that is the right choice. This is going to be a very large chunk of metal, added to it the weight of the entire TT inside of it. The CNC'er was thinking aluminum. This would keep the price down and weight down. Please let me know what you all think.
  • PaperbillPaperbill FloridaPosts: 810MI6 Agent
    SS...my vote
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,190Quartermasters
    edited November 2010
    66cooper wrote:
    We are moving forward with the over-case design. The next thing we have to consider is the material used. I would say SS right away but not sure that is the right choice. This is going to be a very large chunk of metal, added to it the weight of the entire TT inside of it. The CNC'er was thinking aluminum. This would keep the price down and weight down. Please let me know what you all think.

    That's a good question. I kind of have the feeling the prop makers might have used aluminum. However, if they were knowlegeable about seawater, they would have used stainless steel. Why? Well any seaman worth his salt will tell you that steel and aluminum or any dissimilar metals immersed in seawater will cause electrolysis, a type of galvanic corrosion. In essence a natural battery is created with seawater being the electrolyte. Since the watch was used that way in Thunderball, I would say not a good idea. If the watch were gasketed the way I have eluded to previously, perhaps you could get away with it using aluminum, but the best bet would be to use stainless steel.

    The other factor to consider is how you intend to use the watch. Do you plan to get it wet in seawater, or is it it primarily a dust collector that will see only occasional wrist time?

    DG

    Edit: As for my "druthers", I'd prefer stainless steel. Nothing like a hunk of metal expertly crafted worn on the wrist.
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    Ok, this is how I feel about it. SS would have been my first and only choice. Then I started to really think about this. Being an over-case with the TT still somewhat out in the elements, will I ever be dunking my 1966 Breitling into the ocean...NO! Does anyone else plan on actually using this in the water? I assumed not. Most would not recommend diving with such an old watch. Maybe that is just me.
    I have asked the CNCer to look into what SS would cost. Just to see what the difference would be.

    One thing to remember about this though. The design is an over-case. Meaning that the Geiger is just a metal shell. The TT's crystal would still be being used. Because of this design, I do not think we can assure a watertight seal between the Geiger case and TT case. I feel the propose of this is to design replica of a prop used in a movie, not to design a dive watch. If we were to do the latter, the price would go way up. Also, the design would have to then have the guts of the TT replaced into the Geiger case which most said they didnt prefer. Does this sound right?
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,190Quartermasters
    edited November 2010
    66cooper wrote:
    One thing to remember about this though. The design is an over-case. Meaning that the Geiger is just a metal shell. The TT's crystal would still be being used. Because of this design, I do not think we can assure a watertight seal between the Geiger case and TT case. I feel the propose of this is to design replica of a prop used in a movie, not to design a dive watch. If we were to do the latter, the price would go way up. Also, the design would have to then have the guts of the TT replaced into the Geiger case which most said they didnt prefer. Does this sound right?

    Which is why I mentioned a gasket between the edge of the crystal and the faux case and a gasket at the case-back. That would make it water tight provided the TT was pushed up against the bezel edge (with gasket) by the case-back. But you are quite right, if it's a display piece only for occasional wrist wear on terra firma, than not necessary. In any event, it's your rice bowl, so design it how you see fit.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    I think gasket wouldnt be a bad idea as it would keep metal to metal contact at bay. We were thinking of a delrin plastic liner but I have no idea if that is even possible. The CNCer suggested it but not sure he as actually tried to do something that thin.

    The plan is to build the prototypes in aluminum for use of cutting and cost. If we get something that looks perfect, we can then see about moving to SS.

    For current TT 2002 owners, these are top loading watches, no? Meaning the movement is removed from the crystal side. How is the crystal removed? Or maybe, how easy is the crystal to remove. I was thinking of another option possibly where the TT crystal would be removed and the Geiger case would house a crystal at the top of the bezel. After watching Thunderball again, I am not entire certain that the crystal was the TT's. This is VERY hard to see for sure but I am going of the reflections when viewed at an angle. This is just a thought and seems like it might be too much of a pain to actually live with.
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,190Quartermasters
    Well, I don't own a TT. But I'm pretty certain I've seen pictures of the watch with the case-back removed. That suggests that the movement is removed from the back. Watches like the Benrus Type 1 diver or the O/W Caribbean 1000, do not have a removeable case back, so the only way to remove the movement is through the crystal side. I don't think the prop makers would have removed the crystal anyway. If anything, they would have used two crystals. Again, however I believe it was just the TT crystal that was used. It would be the most simple way to do it.

    Again however, it's your rice bowl* (your money) so design it the way you see fit.

    *Terminology used in the Steve McQueen movie The Sand Pebbles.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    We will be producing the prototypes in aluminum and then will go from there.

    This is my project but I want to produce something that everyone will like and be as accurate as possible. We are going to first build the Geiger case with no crystal and try and add a seal to where the TT case would sit. I like that idea. The back in another story. It can not be round like a regular caseback as the entire TT has to go in. We are still trying to figure this out.

    On the diving side of this, the over-case would act like a cub, holding the water. Good if you dont have any drinking utensils but no the best if you are watch fan:-)
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,190Quartermasters
    Had my watchmaker measure the Top Time dial with digital calipers. The measurement seemed to deviate somewhat depending on which two sides the calipers were on. I'm assuming from the deviation, the dial is not 100% round. I'm going with 27.95mm (28mm). It also measured 27.92, 27.93 and I think also 27.88.

    So there you go. For the other individual that pm'd me about this, no need for secrecy. It is now pulic knowledge. I thought about only giving the measurement out in a pm, but what's the point? The information is easy enough to get on your own.

    DG

    Edit: Remember, the dial measurement does not include the tachymetric scale.
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    Thank you.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    CNC'er has showed me a teaser of where he is at so far and it is really shaping up to be nice. Still has a night or two worth of work to get it right though. Then I will go over the design with a fine tooth comb and see where we stand. I'm excited though.
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,190Quartermasters
    66cooper wrote:
    CNC'er has showed me a teaser of where he is at so far and it is really shaping up to be nice. Still has a night or two worth of work to get it right though. Then I will go over the design with a fine tooth comb and see where we stand. I'm excited though.

    Post pictures ASAP!

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    Will do. The CNC'er is in the UK and I am in the US so we are doing out best to link up when we can. Time difference can be tough.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    I received the 3D rendering from the CNC'er and things are looking REALLY good. He has to make a few slight changes and then I will post some pix.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    Sorry for the delay. The CNC'er had some troubles and hasnt got back to refining the drawings. I will post as soon as he does.

    In the meantime, I was thinking about what band I would put this on. The movie prop used two different styles. I suspect the second was done "on the fly" for the underwater shots when they realized the original strap didnt fit over Bonds wet suit. You can see that the ends are rough and brassy and the bracelet appears to be one of those stretchy type. Not the best idea for such a heavy watch head. I was thinking about going for one more like this one:
    ry%3D400

    The design of the watch case will be using a 20mm lug width. Also, with the "weight" of the watch being so big, I figure the strap could be as well. To help balance it. It seems that this might be the prefect solution. It is both the same design as the original but with a more beefy look. A Watchadoo 20mm in brushed SS
    ry%3D320

    What do you think?
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,190Quartermasters
    I'd say you need the original look. To me that means a flimsy looking band. One of those stretchy ones would do. I think thoes Spiedel type bands are still around if you know where to look. Although, without taking measurements using the dial as a reference, the lug width looks like 18mm to me. Could be wrong though.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    Well, there were two different bracelets used in the film. One that looks to be a flexi one and the other that has the same style as the Watchadoo but a bit more delicate. I am going with the fixes strap style as those stretch ones never fit right. Also, keep in mind that the case is huge, making whatever strap you fit a lot longer then what you might be used to. Not sure a stretch band will be up to the weight of it and keep it the right way round.
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,190Quartermasters
    Well, it's your project and I don't see a problem with the mesh bracelet. However, the one you picked does not look like the movie prop. I would think an old mesh JB Champion or something similar would be a better choice.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    The one I posted isnt mesh, just has a similar shape (granted beefier) and number of links across as the original non-flex version in the movie. I will be leaving the bracelet choice up to those that want one of these cases. I am interested in seeing how this hunk of metal will sit on the wrist.
  • ke02ewwke02eww USPosts: 2,064MI6 Agent
    Hi 66c

    Great project - I'm definitely in- always wanted one of these

    DG is our resident expert on bond watches and he makes some great points.

    With you guys on this project i'd hope there would be a high take up

    cheers
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    Thanks for the kind words. This has been something i have wanted ever since i first saw thunderball. The rolex 6358 is the first bond watch, but the Geiger watch is the first gadget watch. I love that.
    To move this project along, i actually just bought another top time today as mine is in for repairs. This will get us where we need to be with no guess work. I knew this wouldnt take a week but i really would like to get something out (of high quality of course) as soon as we can.
  • Donald GrantDonald Grant U.S.A.Posts: 2,190Quartermasters
    Can't wait to see pictures! Keep plugging.

    DG
    So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
    image_zps6a725e59.jpg
    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    I am sorry for the delay in that but life has gotten crazy for the machinist. This is only a side project so the rest of life comes first. I'll keep you all posted.
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    Looks like this project will have to wait till after the holidays. Will try and post some pix of the old drawings while on break to give you all something to look at. Wish it was more.
  • alexeberlinalexeberlin Posts: 104MI6 Agent
    if its not too late i'm in
  • 66cooper66cooper Posts: 71MI6 Agent
    Absolutely. The more the merrier.
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