Should EON forget the reboot ?

Denzil2222

I think they should, they should bring back pierce brosnan for bond 23 and give us a decent movie like goldeneye.

Barry Nelson

Well Denzil2222, I am a big Brosnan fan and I feel your pain, but I have to disagree with you. I am not a big fan of the direction EON has taken Bond, but they have started down this path with Craig, the reboot, etc and they need to finish it. To go in another direction now would be a mistake. CR was enjoyed by critics and fans alike, QoS less so. So, IMO they should complete the story arc for what it's worth and then if they want to change direction, get a new Bond and develop something new

Ricardo C.

I don't they'll ever really drop "the reboot" but they'll return to a more traditional style of Bond film.

Loeffelholz

Barry Nelson wrote:

...I am not a big fan of the direction EON has taken Bond, but they have started down this path with Craig, the reboot, etc and they need to finish it. To go in another direction now would be a mistake. CR was enjoyed by critics and fans alike, QoS less so. So, IMO they should complete the story arc for what it's worth and then if they want to change direction, get a new Bond and develop something new

The reboot has been done, and it's now in the past---a fait accompli. I expect #23 to be a more traditional Bond offering---with Craig in the lead, finishing the Quantum story arc, and hopefully featuring the assassination or disgracing of Dame Judi's M---and after that, who knows?

THORNYBUSH

I also feel that Brosnan had another Bond left in the tank and IMHO should've been given the opportunity to complete his legacy. Let's face it - this will never happen, unless he does a NSNA. I agree that EON will probably finish off the Craig run with Bond 23 but I'm not convinced they can give us a 'traditional' movie. As we've seen in the past - they will stop a 'traditional' Bond in his tracks in favour of a more serious/gadget free theme. They attempted it during Moore's time after the peak of Moonraker with FYEO, and then with the Dalton movies. But this signalled a return to tradition with Brosnan 's run (being halted in it's tracks after the peak of DAD with the new re-boot). I believe the introduction of more traditional Bond elements for Craig/23 would in a way betray the other two. All involved should be applauded for CR , and view QOS as the stepping stone for what will be the third and greatest installment of Craig's trilogy.

.....then new Bond/M/Moneypenny/Q in the old tradition please.

Loeffelholz

THORNYBUSH wrote:

I believe the introduction of more traditional Bond elements for Craig/23 would in a way betray the other two.

I guess we'll see! For me, the past two films have been about a progression...and a more traditional Bond (minus underwater tie-straightening, CGI para-surfing and double-taking pigeons) is the logical final step in the process, and quite the opposite of a betrayal of Craig's two earlier pictures. I similiary disagreed with those vocal objectors who, just a few short years ago, viewed Craig's casting and CR as a betrayal of all Bond films that had come before. In short: nobody's being betrayed, IMO. It's just the swinging of the pendulum as the series continues to evolve and stay alive.

THORNYBUSH

Agreed. I guess with the next swing of the pendulum the hope is that they introduce some tradition in an intelligent way that is more in line with the current Bond. If EON do it in a credible way and bring Bond back to CR impact then Craig may get to retire another day?

...if Brosnan was King of the tie-straightening then Craig must surely be remembered as 'un-straightened tie Bond'? ;0)

...but it surely must be straightened? ..and soon?.....for England.

Loeffelholz

THORNYBUSH wrote:

...if Brosnan was King of the tie-straightening then Craig must surely be remembered as 'un-straightened tie Bond'? ;0)

...but it surely must be straightened? ..and soon?.....for England.

...Absolutely! Connery was a great tie-straightener as well. It's high time for Craigger to straighten his bloody tie...in fact, he ought to do it in the PTS in #23 :007)

Ricardo C.

It's pretty clear that EON wants to continue making these films action films first and foremost. This hasn't started with Craig's era, it was really since Licence To Kill. However since the Craig era, these films been clearly pandering more towards people who like Bourne and Bauer. I doubt things will change in the future since really, EON has long abandoned confidence in it's own genuine product.

blueman

Agree with Loeff, at this point the reboot's over so there's nothing to forget. As for bringing back Brosnan, he was too old in DAD, don't get that sentiment at all, at least as a Bond fan.

SilentSpy

They are stuck in reboot land now. We need to see what happens with the third film. The question is, will it be another Casino Royale or Quantum of Solace? Or will it be Daniel Craig's (I hope) first true Bond movie.

zaphod

THORNYBUSH wrote:

Agreed. I guess with the next swing of the pendulum the hope is that they introduce some tradition in an intelligent way that is more in line with the current Bond. If EON do it in a credible way and bring Bond back to CR impact then Craig may get to retire another day?

...if Brosnan was King of the tie-straightening then Craig must surely be remembered as 'un-straightened tie Bond'? ;0)

...but it surely must be straightened? ..and soon?.....for England.

I really like the use of 'Tie-starightening' as a metaphor for what needs to happen with 23. For what it's worth I think DC could do some superb Tie-Straightening' and I think he would enjoy the chance to do so along with some much welcomed carnage.

Thunderpussy

I'd love to see a bit of "Tie Straightening" a re-Introduction of some traditional elements and characters,With QOS they IMHO Strayed too far from what alot of fans (admittedly not all !) expexted after CR. I would be happy with.

A great PTS, Something Big and bold ( to show Bond is Back)
A theme Song with some input from the composer of the score.
Some less frantic/jerky camera moves.
a Better script
a Bigger villain,with a better plot.
Moneypenny,Q & a new M
Bond getting to grips with this quantum group Breaking it up and Killing its Leader.
a little more Humor ( a half decent one-liner here and there)
NO More Homage's to previous Bond Films!

I think these elemnts could be mixed back into the pot,and still keep the more realistic feel to the Craig era. Even Fleming in his books made the point that if you have a lot of details of everyday life,the type of cigarettes, wines & cars that people know and can identify with, then you can slip in the more un-realistic points like robbing Fort Knoxx and readers will go with you. I'm sure the Producers have taken onboard all the reviews and flack from the more traditional fans.
Sill I live in Hope and have my fingers crossed for the next outing.I don't think its impossiable to blend both the new and old elements together. -{

thesecretagent

No problem there TP - I'm ready for all of that. -{

When are you available to write and direct? )

Thunderpussy

Sadly my Diary is a little full at the moment,still waiting on word from the Nobel Committee to get back to me,So for the moment I'll have to leave it to others. :007)

thesecretagent

Damn. Much the same as before then, for Bond 23.

Dalton is king of the hil

I agree that EON will probably finish off the Craig run with Bond 23 but I'm not convinced they can give us a 'traditional' movie. As we've seen in the past - they will stop a 'traditional' Bond in his tracks in favour of a more serious/gadget free theme. They attempted it during Moore's time after the peak of Moonraker with FYEO, and then with the Dalton movies. But this signalled a return to tradition with Brosnan 's run (being halted in it's tracks after the peak of DAD with the new re-boot).

I don't think they wanted to go away from the gadgets back in the eighties but I liked that the gadgets weren't that silly. There is no room for invisible cars in 007 movies. Neither is there room for laser battles in space or Bond dressing up as a clown...
Craig, like Dalton, wants to go back to the books but I think he betrayed his own reputation with QOS. The action scenes in that movie are so over the top. It is no more realistic that TND or LALD. I think they should do what they can to keep the Bond movies somewhat down to earth but they should also maintain the things we have come to expect. Craig drinks a lot of martini's and stuff and it is very much like the books. The leading lady in the Moonraker novel was Gala Brand. Now Bond never has sex with her during the book. I think the thing about Camille comes from there. Bond never sleeps with her and that is a nice twist. In Casino Royale you can recognize a lot from the books. Not just Casino Royale but also Moonraker. Casino Royale was very good. It had a few flaws but over all it is definitely the best 007 movie since GoldenEye.
The thing about Bond being more retarded is not my cup of tea. He runs into an embassy without a plan just to get a man. In FRWL he also runs into an embassy but with a plan. It is much more plausible. Casino Royale also has some of the worst music I've ever heard. David Arnold should apologize to the fans for that score. Honestly. It is sooooo bad.
Melodic scores would help a lot. I don't know but I hope they get over the reboot but without neglecting what has been done in the past. I used to like the references to Tracy's death. Both in TSWLM, FYEO and LTK. I hope they will mention her again sometime in the future. I don't hope they want us to forget all about her. B-)
If they can go back to making movies as perfect as GoldenEye I would be thrilled.

DAWUSS

I think eventually the reboot and such will be easily blurred away as the years progress. Eventually they'll need to do another shift in the timeline to keep his life reasonably realistic.

jeffch

Dalton is king of the hil wrote:

The thing about Bond being more retarded is not my cup of tea. He runs into an embassy without a plan just to get a man. In FRWL he also runs into an embassy but with a plan. It is much more plausible.

You cant compare those 2 scenes at all. In FRWL he had a calculated plan to steal the lector. In CR he was in the midst of chasing down a bad guy. He already chased the guy for so long, he wasn't going to stop at the embassy. Besides you can argue than in CR he was just starting out as a double O and is still very rough around the edges. Which I think was the idea behind most of CR.

As for the whole "reboot" thing, I wouldnt put too much thought in it anyway. The whole bond time line isnt meant to be picked apart like that. (Youre telling me the Bond in DAD was in the same Bond universe as the Bond who was in his 30s back in the 60s???) Continuity has long been out the door in the films. Most of them are their own little adventures totally unrelated to each other and can be mixed and match time line was. (except for some of the early ones and the 2 DC ones).

I see nothing preventing them from making a more stereo typical/ classic Bond film with DC. DC doesn't always have to be up against Quantum for revenge, as SC didn't always have to be up against Spectre (GF).

TonyDP

Loeffelholz wrote:

Barry Nelson wrote:

...I am not a big fan of the direction EON has taken Bond, but they have started down this path with Craig, the reboot, etc and they need to finish it. To go in another direction now would be a mistake. CR was enjoyed by critics and fans alike, QoS less so. So, IMO they should complete the story arc for what it's worth and then if they want to change direction, get a new Bond and develop something new

The reboot has been done, and it's now in the past---a fait accompli. I expect #23 to be a more traditional Bond offering---with Craig in the lead, finishing the Quantum story arc, and hopefully featuring the assassination or disgracing of Dame Judi's M---and after that, who knows?

Pretty much my feelings as well. For better or worse Bond has been rebooted. I thought it was a terrible mistake to rob Bond of his history and experience but the movies were a success so what do I know.

Going forward, I can only hope for a bigger film with some more spectacular action, a gadget or two, some beautiful Bond girls and a little less self analysis. Outside of a few reflective scenes to tie it to CR, QoS started to go in that direction. Hopefully the further away we get from CR, the less and less the rebooting of Bond will play into his new adventures.

HowardB

Dalton is king of the hill wrote:I agree that EON will probably finish off the Craig run with Bond 23 but I'm not convinced they can give us a 'traditional' movie.

Unless 23 is a box office disappointment, why do you think that EON would want to get rid of Craig (unless he chose not to do another)? As far as the reboot is concerned...who knows? Bond 23 might not be a direct sequel to QOS and even if Quantum are the bad guys again it could be taking place five years after QOS (well in 007 movietime anyway) and we could be seeing a more fully formed Bond so the idea of the reboot could be a mute point. The comparison that's typically made is between Bourne and the DC Bond films, but the pattern I'm seeing may be more similar to the Batman reboot simply in terms of charactor development and formation. We all know the story re why EON chose to move on from Brosnan but one wonders if the success of the Batman reboot wasn't an influence?

down2000

I would like to see the reboot end (but not totally). Keep Craig, keep the current look & feel of the films but set it after Die Another Day. I think its the best of both worlds Craig's performance, while keeping the timeline in place.

However, from what I read it appears the writers will pick up the story after Quantum of Solace

toutbrun

I love Craig, but I wouldn't mind getting Pierce back.

zaphod

down2000 wrote:

I would like to see the reboot end (but not totally). Keep Craig, keep the current look & feel of the films but set it after Die Another Day. I think its the best of both worlds Craig's performance, while keeping the timeline in place.

However, from what I read it appears the writers will pick up the story after Quantum of Solace

Its going to be a real 'challenge' to keep the Qunatum arc going without lengthy reminders and flashbacks due to the loooooong gap. Will the average cinema goer know or care who Vesper was? and do any of us really know what the hell QOS was all about?
(please no explainations, I'm just letting it go)

I'd much prefer a clean break, a new mission that allows DC to 'Straighten his tye' Kick Ass and have a little fun with a lady or two...and please no dour Boyish basket cases, but some old fashioned age appropriate glamour would be nice.

Either that or fully develop the Quantum thing if you really must but do it quickly...

Napoleon Plural

Apropos of nothing, it did occur to me recently that QoS might have benefitted from being two films in one, that is first half as a coda wrapping up much of the Quantum plot, then swfitly throw Bond into another more urgent plot, a la Spooks which does this stuff in an hour. 2 for price of one. As it is we got an extended coda which was a bit something of nothing.

Septimus-Prime

Brosnan is gone, we have to get over it.

HowardB

Naploen Plural said: Apropos of nothing, it did occur to me recently that QoS might have benefitted from being two films in one, that is first half as a coda wrapping up much of the Quantum plot, then swfitly throw Bond into another more urgent plot, a la Spooks which does this stuff in an hour. 2 for price of one. As it is we got an extended coda which was a bit something of nothing.

I was thinking that same thing. With some good writing and tight editing CR could have been rapped up in the first 30 minutes or so of a film with a longer running time (maybe around 135 minutes). They would have a good 90-105 minutes for whatever plotline they would segue into.

Bella_doc

HowardB wrote:

I was thinking that same thing. With some good writing and tight editing CR could have been rapped up in the first 30 minutes or so of a film with a longer running time (maybe around 135 minutes). They would have a good 90-105 minutes for whatever plotline they would segue into.

CR in 30 minutes - you're kidding, right? It would lose all its impact that way

As for continuing the reboot, I think it's pretty much a given since B23 will be out in 2012 and so will probably be Craig's last film. They'll play around with the formula and inch Craig's Bond closer to being the classic Bond, but the need to wrap up the Quantum storyline while maintaining a consistent tone to CR/QOS will keep the film from being a traditional-style romp a la Connery or Moore.

That's gonna be for the next guy.

(Assuming of course that Bourne/Bauer-type movies are no longer popular and that comedy becomes the new thing in action flicks! ))

down2000

I agree that the reboot with probably just fade away eventually but as long as they are making "Bourne" type money, expect a "Bourne" style movie.

What I would do:

Keep Craig, dump Dench, bring back Q & Moneypenny and have a new adventure that makes some past reference to Bonds 1-20

Napoleon Plural

Bella_doc wrote:

HowardB wrote:

I was thinking that same thing. With some good writing and tight editing CR could have been rapped up in the first 30 minutes or so of a film with a longer running time (maybe around 135 minutes). They would have a good 90-105 minutes for whatever plotline they would segue into.

CR in 30 minutes - you're kidding, right? It would lose all its impact that way

No, we mean the sequel to CR bit tied up in the first of 30 mins of QoS, then a new plot for the rest of the film. Not redo CR as a 30-minute movie.

pyrat

I think Brosnan had great potential as Bond and it is first unfortunate they couldn't get him initially when he had the conflict with the Remington Steel people and second, that he didn't get to do more Bond films. IMHO, had they gone darker, more in line with the Connery films with Brosnan, but not as brutish as some of the scenes in the Craig films the Brosnan films may well have been outstanding, competing with Dr. No, and Goldfinger for the title best Bond Film.

But Craig is the man now and Brosnan is not coming back so onward and upward.