Skyfall AJB reviews - SPOILERS!

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  • deliciousdelicious SydneyPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    Asp9mm wrote:
    delicious wrote:
    Asp9mm wrote:

    How ridiculous. Do you actually think through your answers before you type them. Because they make no sense whatsover. It's just arguing for arguments sake, without any clear reason for doing so.

    Rather than attacking me personally, please explain what is ridiculous about my post. But before you do so please check out the following lnk: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112651/. The Celluloid Closet is a documentary about the history of homosexuality in cinema - it even mentions Wynt and Kyd at one point.

    I'm not attacking you personally, I'm attacking your ability to put forward a cohesive argument about anything. You had a go at Skyfall for portraying gay people as bad becaiuse Silva was teh baddy and he was gay. When it was pointed out that Silva wasn't gay, you said it doesn't matter as it was an unhelpful scene anyway. Err, what, what are you on about? Why don't you stop throwing shadows and explain why for once? You just throw statements out there with no logic or backup to them. Now you are bringing up DAF which is totally unrelated. There is no substance to your posts, just randomly cobbled together thoughts that aren't backed up by anything logic.

    Why should I check out your link. It's totally unrelated to Skyfall, or this discussion. Bond wasn't gay, Silva wasn't gay, it was a mental game of chess. It didn't portray gay people in a bad light at all. And if you think it did, then explain why.

    http://www.digitalspy.com.au/movies/news/a437356/daniel-craig-says-james-bond-skyfall-villain-silva-are-not-gay.html

    As Craig says in the above link Silva may be someone who would "f**k anything" rather than specifically gay but the fact remains that Silva uses gay seduction either to mess with Bond or because he is attracted to him. In either case homosexuality is being portrayed negatively. It may be being used in the service of humour but ridicule is actually the main way that homosexuality is attacked in cinema. Derision hurts - its emotional abuse. When I saw the Bond/Silva "gay" scene for the first time I laughed at Bond's reply "What makes you think its my first time?" because it was mature, BUT Silva's behaviour nevertheless reinforces the long-standing association of gayness with villainy, weirdness and ridicule in cinema. That's how it is unhelpful. A percentage of young males who watch the film and who may already have negative views about homosexuality because of their upbringing, peer group and so on, will have their prejudices slightly reinforced. This means there is more likelihood that some poor guy minding his own business will get bashed for being or looking gay. More disturbingly (and I work in community services so I know about this) some poor young guy who has just discovered he may be gay and is afraid to tell his family and friends may choose suicide instead - the rate of gay teen suicide is appalling. Art/culture affects the way people behave in the real world. Sometimes it educates and reduces prejudice and violence, and in other cases it has the reverse effect. We have been through this with race rights and women's rights but we are still not there with rights around sexual freedom and self expression.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    After Bond dressed as a clown in Octopussy. It became very dificult for
    any young man wanting to be a clown, some people would laugh in their face.
    Bond has a lot to answer for.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • deliciousdelicious SydneyPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    After Bond dressed as a clown in Octopussy. It became very dificult for
    any young man wanting to be a clown, some people would laugh in their face.
    Bond has a lot to answer for.

    Clowns are supposed to be laughed at. Make light of what I have said if you want but I see the results of homophobia in my work and its not funny at all.
  • deliciousdelicious SydneyPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    welshboy78 wrote:
    Please don't tell me gay people are offended by Silva's camp scenes lol Funniest part of the movie

    I know a few gay people who have an outrageous sense of humour, must ask them what they think of Silvas scenes, bet they find it hilarious. On another note one of them told me (pissed up) that he though Roger Moore was the hottest Bond lol, my missus insisted DC was the hottest but our friend wasnt having any of it!! :D

    I know gay people who were offended and I know straight people who were offended too.
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 6,711MI6 Agent
    edited June 2013
    delicious wrote:
    welshboy78 wrote:
    Please don't tell me gay people are offended by Silva's camp scenes lol Funniest part of the movie

    I know a few gay people who have an outrageous sense of humour, must ask them what they think of Silvas scenes, bet they find it hilarious. On another note one of them told me (pissed up) that he though Roger Moore was the hottest Bond lol, my missus insisted DC was the hottest but our friend wasnt having any of it!! :D

    I know gay people who were offended and I know straight people who were offended too.

    Now you're just making things up. You didn't even know the true nature of the scene until it was pointed out last night. And if you really did have a discussion on the subject with said people, then you were misrepresenting it and are more responsible for blinkered views than the Bond films. I'd suggest another line of work if this is the case.
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • deliciousdelicious SydneyPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    Asp9mm wrote:
    delicious wrote:
    welshboy78 wrote:
    Please don't tell me gay people are offended by Silva's camp scenes lol Funniest part of the movie

    I know a few gay people who have an outrageous sense of humour, must ask them what they think of Silvas scenes, bet they find it hilarious. On another note one of them told me (pissed up) that he though Roger Moore was the hottest Bond lol, my missus insisted DC was the hottest but our friend wasnt having any of it!! :D

    I know gay people who were offended and I know straight people who were offended too.

    Now you're just making things up.

    "How ridiculous. Do you actually think through your answers before you type them. Because they make no sense whatsover. It's just arguing for arguments sake, without any clear reason for doing so."
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 6,711MI6 Agent
    delicious wrote:
    Asp9mm wrote:
    delicious wrote:

    I know gay people who were offended and I know straight people who were offended too.

    Now you're just making things up.

    "How ridiculous. Do you actually think through your answers before you type them. Because they make no sense whatsover. It's just arguing for arguments sake, without any clear reason for doing so."

    My case in point. Thanks for backing it up. You can't even formulate critical responses yourself. My six year old can copy and repeat :))
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • deliciousdelicious SydneyPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    Asp9mm wrote:
    delicious wrote:
    Asp9mm wrote:

    Now you're just making things up.

    "How ridiculous. Do you actually think through your answers before you type them. Because they make no sense whatsover. It's just arguing for arguments sake, without any clear reason for doing so."

    My case in point. Thanks for backing it up. You can't even formulate critical responses yourself. My six year old can copy and repeat :))

    Not backing you up - just suggesting you practice what you preach.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    I'm no role model for anyone but I wouldn't take my political or social views
    from a series of entertainement films. People who chose to attack people who
    live a different lifestyle are assh**es, but thats not the fault of a purley entertainment
    series of films.
    I'm quitting this thread as I think your making up arguments.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,604MI6 Agent
    delicious wrote:
    After Bond dressed as a clown in Octopussy. It became very dificult for
    any young man wanting to be a clown, some people would laugh in their face.
    Bond has a lot to answer for.

    Clowns are supposed to be laughed at. Make light of what I have said if you want but I see the results of homophobia in my work and its not funny at all.

    Although I didn't quite get a "homophobic" vibe from the scene between Silva and Bond in Skyfall, your comments have certainly caused me to consider how it could be taken that way. And I agree 100% with your assertion that there's nothing particularly funny about homophobia, especially in this day and age.
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    certainly made me think. The Bond crew must HATE the straight community, ALL those
    straight Villains and Henchmen ( and women ) all setting bad examples for all of us.
    Should I be offened ?
    Goldfinger was a chubby Bloke, so am I. Should I be offended ?
    Should I be offended at Not being Offended in the first place ?
    and If Offended, is it right to be offended after the fact ?
    Is being offended, offencive in itself ?

    also strange if this was such an important point it has only been raised now.
    delicious wrote, 14th April.
    Hated Skyfall at the cinema. However I thought I'd give it a second chance so I rented it on iTunes on the weekend. Got bored half way through and didn't bother watching the rest. The film is well executed cinematically but the writing is weak and the story line failed to hold me.

    so this is a scene you've only watched Once ? as you couldn't watch the full film again.

    Then again mabey it's just a Bloody film. Anyway I'll leave you to discuss it at leisure and when it's
    sorted. I'm sure another Problem with Skyfall will be brought up. 8-)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • deliciousdelicious SydneyPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    certainly made me think. The Bond crew must HATE the straight community, ALL those
    straight Villains and Henchmen ( and women ) all setting bad examples for all of us.
    Should I be offened ?
    Goldfinger was a chubby Bloke, so am I. Should I be offended ?
    Should I be offended at Not being Offended in the first place ?
    and If Offended, is it right to be offended after the fact ?
    Is being offended, offencive in itself ?

    I'm sorry but it doesn't work that way. There is a history of associating villains with homosexuality. Anyone can be a villain regardless of gender, sexual preference, race or other characteristics. The fact that most villains are straight does not mean that straight people will associate the two. There are parallel pattens with the development of gender roles and race roles in films. Currently a lot of villains have a middle eastern appearance - and notice how Latinos have changed over the years in films from being villains to comedy relief to supporting roles to heroes. They have acquired status in films as prejudices have fallen away in the community. Also look at the way women have changed from being physically weak to physically strong in films over the years. All good stuff.

    Being overweight has a parallel status to homosexuality in cinema - being overweight is often associated with unlikeable characters in the movies. Not always villains but seldom heroes. Baron Harkonnen in the book "Dune" is the ultimate example of this - weight and evil are clearly associated because there is a false belief that being overweight is wrong or undisciplined or bad. I love Richard Griffiths detective chef character in "Pie in the Sky" - but such hero characters are few and far between.

    Now some people are very comfortable with their sexuality and can laugh off homophobia in films - and others who are overweight can do the same when they see someone like John Candy playing the fat fool - but others who may have low self esteem etc, especially teens, will be hurt. And to return to the issue of teen suicide, weight issues are another major cause.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    But no reason why it took you three months to become outraged :))
    I think your reading too much in to it, but each to their own.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    Skyfall breaks another record.
    http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/official-skyfall-uk-biggest-box-office-hit-time-083900209.html

    James Bond fans may continue to argue about whether or not 'Skyfall' is, as some claim, the very best Bond film ever, but one thing's for sure: in purely financial terms, it's the biggest. According to new figures released by the British Film Institute, the Sam Mendes-directed film which gave James Bond 007 his 23rd official big screen outing wound up earning just under £103 million in British cinemas, making it the biggest money maker in the history of the UK, dethroning the previous record holder, James Cameron's 'Avatar.'
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 6,711MI6 Agent
    Never thought I'd see the day when a Bond film could reach those heights again. And then BEAT them :)
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    -{ It's a great time to Be a Bond fan. {[]
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,604MI6 Agent
    -{ It's a great time to Be a Bond fan. {[]

    Yep! -{
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • DelicatessenInSteelDelicatessenInSteel Posts: 181MI6 Agent
    delicious wrote:
    When I saw the Bond/Silva "gay" scene for the first time I laughed at Bond's reply "What makes you think its my first time?" because it was mature, BUT Silva's behaviour nevertheless reinforces the long-standing association of gayness with villainy, weirdness and ridicule in cinema. That's how it is unhelpful. A percentage of young males who watch the film and who may already have negative views about homosexuality because of their upbringing, peer group and so on, will have their prejudices slightly reinforced. This means there is more likelihood that some poor guy minding his own business will get bashed for being or looking gay. More disturbingly (and I work in community services so I know about this) some poor young guy who has just discovered he may be gay and is afraid to tell his family and friends may choose suicide instead - the rate of gay teen suicide is appalling. Art/culture affects the way people behave in the real world. Sometimes it educates and reduces prejudice and violence, and in other cases it has the reverse effect. We have been through this with race rights and women's rights but we are still not there with rights around sexual freedom and self expression.

    Skyfall is a mediocre Bond film..(My opinion..does that make me homophobic? because regardless, any criticisms should be directed at the screenwriters..and John Logan who wrote half of Skyfall and the scene in question will be writing Bond 24 and is openly gay. -{
    1.MoonRaker 2.OHMSS 3.LALD 4.OP 5.FYEO 6.DR. NO 7.YOLT 8.LTK 9.CR 10.AVTAK
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,129Chief of Staff
    delicious wrote:
    When I saw the Bond/Silva "gay" scene for the first time I laughed at Bond's reply "What makes you think its my first time?" because it was mature, BUT Silva's behaviour nevertheless reinforces the long-standing association of gayness with villainy, weirdness and ridicule in cinema. That's how it is unhelpful. A percentage of young males who watch the film and who may already have negative views about homosexuality because of their upbringing, peer group and so on, will have their prejudices slightly reinforced. This means there is more likelihood that some poor guy minding his own business will get bashed for being or looking gay. More disturbingly (and I work in community services so I know about this) some poor young guy who has just discovered he may be gay and is afraid to tell his family and friends may choose suicide instead - the rate of gay teen suicide is appalling. Art/culture affects the way people behave in the real world. Sometimes it educates and reduces prejudice and violence, and in other cases it has the reverse effect. We have been through this with race rights and women's rights but we are still not there with rights around sexual freedom and self expression.

    Skyfall is a mediocre Bond film..(My opinion..does that make me homophobic? because regardless, any criticisms should be directed at the screenwriters..and John Logan who wrote half of Skyfall and the scene in question will be writing Bond 24 and is openly gay. -{

    John Logan's sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with him being either a good or bad script writer...I thought Silva was bi-sexual anyway ? Not that that matters....
    Are you homophobic ? No idea....but your comments can be construed to be...but that may be just down to how what you have written comes across....
    YNWA 96
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,350MI6 Agent
    Asp9mm wrote:
    Never thought I'd see the day when a Bond film could reach those heights again. And then BEAT them :)

    Yeah, we know that you loved the Gangnam Style Shanghai fight sequence :D
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    DelicatessenInSteel wrote :
    Skyfall is a mediocre Bond film..(My opinion..does that make me homophobic? because regardless, any criticisms should be directed at the screenwriters..and John Logan who wrote half of Skyfall and the scene in question will be writing Bond 24 and is openly gay. -{

    Sir Miles wrote:
    John Logan's sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with him being either a good or bad script writer...I thought Silva was bi-sexual anyway ? Not that that matters....
    Are you homophobic ? No idea....but your comments can be construed to be...but that may be just down to how what you have written comes across....

    I too have no idea what the problem is with Logan being gay ? either a script is Good or Bad, that's all that matters. 8-)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • DelicatessenInSteelDelicatessenInSteel Posts: 181MI6 Agent
    edited July 2013
    DelicatessenInSteel wrote :
    Skyfall is a mediocre Bond film..(My opinion..does that make me homophobic? because regardless, any criticisms should be directed at the screenwriters..and John Logan who wrote half of Skyfall and the scene in question will be writing Bond 24 and is openly gay. -{

    Sir Miles wrote:
    John Logan's sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with him being either a good or bad script writer...I thought Silva was bi-sexual anyway ? Not that that matters....
    Are you homophobic ? No idea....but your comments can be construed to be...but that may be just down to how what you have written comes across....

    I too have no idea what the problem is with Logan being gay ? either a script is Good or Bad, that's all that matters. 8-)

    I love how this is going..(It would be nice if what I said was in context/responding to a post by Delicious) The point i tried to make other than I don't care much for Skyfall( was the negative criticism towards that sequence which I thought was great and brought a little of the old school Bond back in the fray) I was pointing out if it seems offensive or antigay blame the screenwriter..also pointing out he was gay hopefully to undercut the argument...but now its on to something else.., & yes Sir Miles sexual orientation does not equate good or bad scriptwriting (in this case bad...My opinion.. however it can bleed into your writing just like folks who are all riled up about politics seem to let there politics bleed into their work and my love of Roger Moore seems to get into almost all my posts...He's the best Bond ever. :D -{
    1.MoonRaker 2.OHMSS 3.LALD 4.OP 5.FYEO 6.DR. NO 7.YOLT 8.LTK 9.CR 10.AVTAK
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    Wouldn't go quite as far as saying Sir Roger was the best Bond ever but he was very good. -{ :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,129Chief of Staff
    I love how this is going..(It would be nice if what I said was in context/responding to a post by Delicious) The point i tried to make other than I don't care much for Skyfall( was the negative criticism towards that sequence which I thought was great and brought a little of the old school Bond back in the fray) I was pointing out if it seems offensive or antigay blame the screenwriter..also pointing out he was gay hopefully to undercut the argument...but now its on to something else.., & yes Sir Miles sexual orientation does not equate good or bad scriptwriting (in this case bad...My opinion.. however it can bleed into your writing just like folks who are all riled up about politics seem to let there politics bleed into their work and my love of Roger Moore seems to get into almost all my posts...He's the best Bond ever. :D -{

    Sorry...you asked if you were homophobic because you didn't like Logan's script..?.or that's the way it came across...perhaps you both should go on a writing course ? :))
    -{
    YNWA 96
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,604MI6 Agent
    Wouldn't go quite as far as saying Sir Roger was the best Bond ever but he was very good. -{ :))

    That's going too far! :))
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • deliciousdelicious SydneyPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    Just saw Liam Neeson in "Taken" again and found it breathtakingly brilliant. I wish that recent Bond films had the same passion, intensity, logic and purpose as this excellent film. Neeson's character gets to use his espionage and combat abilities to try to find his kidnapped daughter. Films like "Taken" and "The Bourne Identity" (and sequels) represent the new centre of gravity for the action spy genre - the Bond franchise has totally lost focus in comparison.
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,748Chief of Staff
    I could not disagree less, delicious. Neeson seems to be making the same film over and over again, just jumping from one action scene to the next; and the Bournes have completely shot their wad. How many times can you present a poor schmuck simultaneously running from and outwitting his own government? Even Matt Damon gave up on it. The recent Bond films you decry have brought back what the series used to be--grand adventures played on a world stage, centered around a hero you care about.
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    I also agree lately L Neeson is just putting out action movies, and some
    not too good ones either. :)) The last Bourne movie wasn't a big hit as well.
    So I'm happy to see Bond , where he should be. Biggest boxoffice with others
    Copying him. -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,350MI6 Agent
    Hardyboy wrote:
    I could not disagree less, delicious. Neeson seems to be making the same film over and over again, just jumping from one action scene to the next; and the Bournes have completely shot their wad. How many times can you present a poor schmuck simultaneously running from and outwitting his own government? Even Matt Damon gave up on it. The recent Bond films you decry have brought back what the series used to be--grand adventures played on a world stage, centered around a hero you care about.

    ...at least I could follow the action scenes in Taken and Taken II opposed to the fast editing of QoS ;)
    I liked both parts from Taken and yes, they are following a formula like the Bond movies
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Mr MalloryMr Mallory North by northwestPosts: 615MI6 Agent
    Fast editing happens in most modern thrillers, can't see that changing. I can't
    understand people not being able to folliw QOS.
    What makes you think this is my first time?
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