Good film, just not a great Bond-film. I found of my many viewings that my Friends not familiar with Bond, loved it and those that were, found themselves disappointed.
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,652MI6 Agent
I agree with everything you say. I’m constantly puzzled by the media’s fascination and praise of the film. I can only assume they are not Bond fans and are praising it for other reasons not yet clear.
The only light at the end of the tunnel for me watching it, was seeing a male M reintroduced and the old MI6 office back in use. Hopefully, the aberrations that are Quantum of Solace and Skyfall will mark the end of considerable tinkering and we can get back to some classic Bond.
Incidentally, I’m reading OHMSS, and can’t see that book’s portrayal of Bond as in any way approximating Craig’s take on the character. The first half of the book shows us a Bond who is very much of his “class”—more like Dirk Bogarde than Daniel Craig's Bond.
Bitchy, effeminate Dirk Bogarde as James Bond? Sorry, not quite seeing it. Also, of what "class" do you consider Bogarde to be a member? In his most famous role he was a servant.
It's not that too far off conceptually and it's fitting your AJB name is Gala Brand. Several years ago many of the older members of this board fell for this hoax 1956 version of Moonraker and for a while we were impressed with a Dirk Bogarde Bond:
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,652MI6 Agent
Good film, just not a great Bond-film. I found of my many viewings that my Friends not familiar with Bond, loved it and those that were, found themselves disappointed.
I think that's the dynamics in play with the viewing audience that helped propel SF into the box office stratosphere. When I got my last haircut in a Chinese salon, the stylists and customers who were excitedly speaking in Chinese and the only word I recognized was "Skyfall," which they said a few times. I think SF really resonated across the board of viewers, but I wouldn't immediately say it's in the top 5 or even 10 Bond films...speaking as a Bond fan of course.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
scaramanga1The English RivieraPosts: 845Chief of Staff
I watched it again last night -and still thought it was a fine entry into the Bond cannon. -No it isn't the best -but it has got so many good parts in it it is right up there IMO. I for one really enjoy it and really do not think it is a lame entry. Shanghai is amazing - the end is fine and well handled. It certainly feels very different from CR and QOS but then you want the films to evolve -but at the same time retain familiar elements. I for one felt they got this right.
Good film, just not a great Bond-film. I found of my many viewings that my Friends not familiar with Bond, loved it and those that were, found themselves disappointed.
I think that's the dynamics in play with the viewing audience that helped propel SF into the box office stratosphere. When I got my last haircut in a Chinese salon, the stylists and customers who were excitedly speaking in Chinese and the only word I recognized was "Skyfall," which they said a few times. I think SF really resonated across the board of viewers, but I wouldn't immediately say it's in the top 5 or even 10 Bond films...speaking as a Bond fan of course.
Absolutely
BIG TAMWrexham, North Wales, UK.Posts: 773MI6 Agent
I agree with scaramanga1. I think the balance was right. I don't want each new Bond film to slavishly imitate all that's gone before but at the same time don't feel they should stray too far into the minutiae of real-life espionage. With its grey concrete underground MI6 bunkers SKYFALL felt like fantasy Le Carre which is a direction I'm perfectly happy with. That said, Broccoli & Wilson shouldn't rest on their laurels & should always be seeking subtle shifts in direction for future films. They've certainly got their work cut out for Bond 24.
They've certainly got their work cut out for Bond 24.
Hmm, you could argue the opposite! Given the huge box office take for Skyfall, that translates to a big fanbase eager to see Bond 24. Without wishing to be flippant or dismissive of the effort and craft employed in making a James Bond film, I'm pretty sure most people will go and see Bond 24 no matter how good/bad or indifferent it is. In fact, I would say that's guaranteed.
I reckon the storyline for Bond 24 can be any old tat - not that I'm expecting it to be! - and I'm sure people will see it and the media will hype it as "the best Bond ever!" Realistically speaking, a film series of 23 films is going to struggle to stay fresh and innovative. That doesn't have any bearing on how well the films do at the box office.
I agree with scaramanga1. I think the balance was right. I don't want each new Bond film to slavishly imitate all that's gone before but at the same time don't feel they should stray too far into the minutiae of real-life espionage. With its grey concrete underground MI6 bunkers SKYFALL felt like fantasy Le Carre which is a direction I'm perfectly happy with. That said, Broccoli & Wilson shouldn't rest on their laurels & should always be seeking subtle shifts in direction for future films. They've certainly got their work cut out for Bond 24.
I agree with everything you say. I’m constantly puzzled by the media’s fascination and praise of the film. I can only assume they are not Bond fans and are praising it for other reasons not yet clear.
The only light at the end of the tunnel for me watching it, was seeing a male M reintroduced and the old MI6 office back in use. Hopefully, the aberrations that are Quantum of Solace and Skyfall will mark the end of considerable tinkering and we can get back to some classic Bond.
Incidentally, I’m reading OHMSS, and can’t see that book’s portrayal of Bond as in any way approximating Craig’s take on the character. The first half of the book shows us a Bond who is very much of his “class”—more like Dirk Bogarde than Daniel Craig's Bond.
Bitchy, effeminate Dirk Bogarde as James Bond? Sorry, not quite seeing it. Also, of what "class" do you consider Bogarde to be a member? In his most famous role he was a servant.
It's not that too far off conceptually and it's fitting your AJB name is Gala Brand. Several years ago many of the older members of this board fell for this hoax 1956 version of Moonraker and for a while we were impressed with a Dirk Bogarde Bond:
There was also a 1964 spy film that Bogarde did called 'Hot Enough for June' where there is a nod towards Bond in the form of a spy being allocated the code number 008. He was also in another spy film called ‘Sebastian’, in the late 1960s, where according to Wikipedia he: “Played a former Oxford professor, who in the late 60s directs the all-female decoding office of British Intelligence”. This sound like a spoof film, though.
Bogarde would probably have made a good Bond, more similar to Roger Moor’s than Connery’s. I can’t imagine him doing the fight scenes any justice, though. I can’t recall a film where he ever had a fight, for that matter.
He would have tired of Bond even before Connery, methinks. He did have an effete charm; he was gay of course and hinted at it in his film Victim, in which he plays a married homosexual lawyer being blackmailed.
You couldn't really imagine him taking on the likes of Honey Ryder or Pussy Galore and winning; they'd eat him up alive!
But he would have made an excellent Saint - but Rog was waiting in the wings for that one...
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Harry Palmer Somewhere in the past ...Posts: 325MI6 Agent
I thought the first half (until the Macau Casino scene) was excellent. Beautifully made, engrossing, a true classic. But the twist with Silva's plan and motivation was silly, and turned everything that came before it into a series of trivial events.
Then the huge plotholes started to show, and the film became completely senseless.
Pity, because the potential was there, and they got many things right. But plotholes this size are unforgivable.
Admittedly.... At the point when he escaped and Bond gave chase, I thought, "Oh ... THE DARK KNIGHT, after a very elaborate series of events (Dent claiming to be Batman, armored car transport , chase, capture, Dent and Dawes in peril), it turned out Joker wanted to be held at the MCI holding cells so he could make off with the Chinese financier.
I really wondered if the screenwriters thought we'd all have forgotten TDK and wouldn't see the glaring similarity.
I never understood why Silva just didnt go round Judys house and simply blew here brains out there and then at around the 2 min mark of the film. Would have been a lot easier instead of getting Bond involved and going all that way up to Scotland in a helicopter!!
I never understood why Silva just didnt go round Judys house and simply blew here brains out there and then at around the 2 min mark of the film. Would have been a lot easier instead of getting Bond involved and going all that way up to Scotland in a helicopter!!
You could apply that to most Bond films and many, many action adventures dating back to the old time silents movie serials.
Actually Silva's less than "efficiant" plan would probably be explained by his being a psychotic, meglomaniac....which is also kind of par for the course for many a Bond villain. -{
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,652MI6 Agent
I never understood why Silva just didnt go round Judys house and simply blew here brains out there and then at around the 2 min mark of the film. Would have been a lot easier instead of getting Bond involved and going all that way up to Scotland in a helicopter!!
You could apply that to most Bond films and many, many action adventures dating back to the old time silents movie serials.
Actually Silva's less than "efficiant" plan would probably be explained by his being a psychotic, meglomaniac....which is also kind of par for the course for many a Bond villain. -{
Had Dr. No sent an assault team in a couple of helicopters instead of Prof. Dent, there would be no Bond series for us to enjoy today! That comparison helps put into perspective how far the series has gone and how much the ante has been "upped." Maybe Bond villains need a lesson from Scott Evil, lol.
Scott Evil: "I have a gun, in my room, you give me five seconds, I'll get it, I'll come back down here, BOOM, I'll blow their brains out!"
Dr. Evil: "Scott, you just don't get it, do ya? You don't."
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
Had Dr. No sent an assault team in a couple of helicopters instead of Prof. Dent, there would be no Bond series for us to enjoy today! That comparison helps put into perspective how far the series has gone and how much the ante has been "upped." Maybe Bond villains need a lesson from Scott Evil, lol.
Scott Evil: "I have a gun, in my room, you give me five seconds, I'll get it, I'll come back down here, BOOM, I'll blow their brains out!"
Dr. Evil: "Scott, you just don't get it, do ya? You don't."
Yup. Or No instructed Dent simply to SHOOT Bond in his bed while he slept rather than putting a bloody spider in his room!!!
Friggin' idiots!
The price we pay for being Bond films fans in that from time to time we have to overlook the bleedin' obvious to enjoy the spectacle of the rest. However, SKYFALL does appear to be the MOONRAKER of absurdities.
However, it should be noted there are a lot fewer oversights of this type in Fleming's originals. Perhaps because they were better thought out and written?
I never understood why Silva just didnt go round Judys house and simply blew here brains out there and then at around the 2 min mark of the film. Would have been a lot easier instead of getting Bond involved and going all that way up to Scotland in a helicopter!!
He wanted to destroy her life's work and publicly humiliate her before killing her.
SF is down to 7.9 on imdb now, on a par with CR but streets ahead of QoS.
Seeing as the poorly received Hobbit is on 8.3, I'm learning not to set too much store by imdb reviews, it comes down to whether you have a supportive fan base imo.
I agree with everything you say. I’m constantly puzzled by the media’s fascination and praise of the film. I can only assume they are not Bond fans and are praising it for other reasons not yet clear.
The only light at the end of the tunnel for me watching it, was seeing a male M reintroduced and the old MI6 office back in use. Hopefully, the aberrations that are Quantum of Solace and Skyfall will mark the end of considerable tinkering and we can get back to some classic Bond.
Incidentally, I’m reading OHMSS, and can’t see that book’s portrayal of Bond as in any way approximating Craig’s take on the character. The first half of the book shows us a Bond who is very much of his “class”—more like Dirk Bogarde than Daniel Craig's Bond.
Bitchy, effeminate Dirk Bogarde as James Bond? Sorry, not quite seeing it. Also, of what "class" do you consider Bogarde to be a member? In his most famous role he was a servant.
It's not that too far off conceptually and it's fitting your AJB name is Gala Brand. Several years ago many of the older members of this board fell for this hoax 1956 version of Moonraker and for a while we were impressed with a Dirk Bogarde Bond:
Mmm.
But before James Bond was "Hollywoodised" by Cubby Brocolli, magnified into the tradtional 6'2" 13st 7lbs leading man of Mr Sean Connery, the form of Dirk Bogarde as a virile male lead in a 1950s BRITISH studios Bond would have been fine.
And, consider, what Hollywood action did Bond do in Fleiming's MOONRAKER? Played cards, drove a car, swam a bit, rolled from under a rock-fall, kicked Krebbs up the arse, climbed a rocket gantry and an air-escape tube? Even Bogarde-Bond could have handled this.
And, as we are told these days, James Bond, Fleming version, was never tall, physically impossing, etc. Just ask the Craig nuthuggers.
Yes, a non-Hollywood British 1950s Bond series would have suited Bogarde well, in the absence of any other 1950s British male lead contenders. He is certainly nearer to the way I imagine Bond when I read the books. I just can’t see the Connery, Moore, Dalton and Craig Bonds in the books. I can see some of Lazenby, though, but I can't put my finger on why that is.
Michael Craig might have suited the part as well. He was a little-known 1950s British male leading man whose career never really took off. Also, Stanley Baker might have made a go of it during the 1960s. He looked a bit like Connery and had the cynicism of Daniel Craig.
Yes, a non-Hollywood British 1950s Bond series would have suited Bogarde well, in the absence of any other 1950s British male lead contenders. He is certainly nearer to the way I imagine Bond when I read the books. I just can’t the Connery, Moore, Dalton and Craig Bonds in the books.
Michael Craig might have suited the part as well. He was a little-known 1950s British male leading man whose career never really took off. Also, Stanley Baker might have made a go of it during the 1960s. He looked a bit like Connery had the cynicism of Daniel Craig.
You know, my first image of Daniel Craig is of him with dark hair as Ted Hughes in SYVLIA - knew absolutely sweet-f'all else about DC at the time - and I acutally thought at the time he was Michael Craig's SON!!! I knew Michael when I was a kid from MYSTERIOUS ISLAND, DOCTOR films, etc
I never understood why Silva just didnt go round Judys house and simply blew here brains out there and then at around the 2 min mark of the film. Would have been a lot easier instead of getting Bond involved and going all that way up to Scotland in a helicopter!!
You could apply that to most Bond films and many, many action adventures dating back to the old time silents movie serials.
Actually Silva's less than "efficiant" plan would probably be explained by his being a psychotic, meglomaniac....which is also kind of par for the course for many a Bond villain. -{
Prob didnt turn out right but my post was supposed to be a little sarcastic
Yes, a non-Hollywood British 1950s Bond series would have suited Bogarde well, in the absence of any other 1950s British male lead contenders. He is certainly nearer to the way I imagine Bond when I read the books. I just can’t the Connery, Moore, Dalton and Craig Bonds in the books.
Michael Craig might have suited the part as well. He was a little-known 1950s British male leading man whose career never really took off. Also, Stanley Baker might have made a go of it during the 1960s. He looked a bit like Connery had the cynicism of Daniel Craig.
You know, my first image of Daniel Craig is of him with dark hair as Ted Hughes in SYVLIA - knew absolutely sweet-f'all else about DC at the time - and I acutally thought at the time he was Michael Craig's SON!!! I knew Michael when I was a kid from MYSTERIOUS ISLAND, DOCTOR films, etc
He also has dark hair in a film about the artist Francis Bacon. He played Bacon’s boyfriend in it. I don’t know why he wasn’t allowed to dye his hair black for Bond. It would have been no problem for him, and he would have had more acceptance in the role.
Bitchy, effeminate Dirk Bogarde as James Bond? Sorry, not quite seeing it. Also, of what "class" do you consider Bogarde to be a member? In his most famous role he was a servant.
It's not that too far off conceptually and it's fitting your AJB name is Gala Brand. Several years ago many of the older members of this board fell for this hoax 1956 version of Moonraker and for a while we were impressed with a Dirk Bogarde Bond:
Mmm.
But before James Bond was "Hollywoodised" by Cubby Brocolli, magnified into the tradtional 6'2" 13st 7lbs leading man of Mr Sean Connery, the form of Dirk Bogarde as a virile male lead in a 1950s BRITISH studios Bond would have been fine.
I'm not knocking Bogarde. He was a good actor when he was cast in the right role. But his specialty was playing neurotics and I don't see James Bond as being neurotic.
I really think there is a lot of dick heads on here ! skyfall is fantastic ...........end of ! the numbers prove it ! dan is the best bond since connery ! I hope he does 3 more and I hope sam directs all of them !
Comments
It's not that too far off conceptually and it's fitting your AJB name is Gala Brand. Several years ago many of the older members of this board fell for this hoax 1956 version of Moonraker and for a while we were impressed with a Dirk Bogarde Bond:
I think that's the dynamics in play with the viewing audience that helped propel SF into the box office stratosphere. When I got my last haircut in a Chinese salon, the stylists and customers who were excitedly speaking in Chinese and the only word I recognized was "Skyfall," which they said a few times. I think SF really resonated across the board of viewers, but I wouldn't immediately say it's in the top 5 or even 10 Bond films...speaking as a Bond fan of course.
Absolutely
Hmm, you could argue the opposite! Given the huge box office take for Skyfall, that translates to a big fanbase eager to see Bond 24. Without wishing to be flippant or dismissive of the effort and craft employed in making a James Bond film, I'm pretty sure most people will go and see Bond 24 no matter how good/bad or indifferent it is. In fact, I would say that's guaranteed.
I reckon the storyline for Bond 24 can be any old tat - not that I'm expecting it to be! - and I'm sure people will see it and the media will hype it as "the best Bond ever!" Realistically speaking, a film series of 23 films is going to struggle to stay fresh and innovative. That doesn't have any bearing on how well the films do at the box office.
There was also a 1964 spy film that Bogarde did called 'Hot Enough for June' where there is a nod towards Bond in the form of a spy being allocated the code number 008. He was also in another spy film called ‘Sebastian’, in the late 1960s, where according to Wikipedia he: “Played a former Oxford professor, who in the late 60s directs the all-female decoding office of British Intelligence”. This sound like a spoof film, though.
Bogarde would probably have made a good Bond, more similar to Roger Moor’s than Connery’s. I can’t imagine him doing the fight scenes any justice, though. I can’t recall a film where he ever had a fight, for that matter.
He would have tired of Bond even before Connery, methinks. He did have an effete charm; he was gay of course and hinted at it in his film Victim, in which he plays a married homosexual lawyer being blackmailed.
You couldn't really imagine him taking on the likes of Honey Ryder or Pussy Galore and winning; they'd eat him up alive!
But he would have made an excellent Saint - but Rog was waiting in the wings for that one...
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Then the huge plotholes started to show, and the film became completely senseless.
Pity, because the potential was there, and they got many things right. But plotholes this size are unforgivable.
I really wondered if the screenwriters thought we'd all have forgotten TDK and wouldn't see the glaring similarity.
“It reads better than it lives.” T. Case
haha yeah innit xD
Movies: The Spy Who Loved Me. Actor: Pierce Brosnan. Theme: You Only Live Twice. :D
You could apply that to most Bond films and many, many action adventures dating back to the old time silents movie serials.
Actually Silva's less than "efficiant" plan would probably be explained by his being a psychotic, meglomaniac....which is also kind of par for the course for many a Bond villain.
Had Dr. No sent an assault team in a couple of helicopters instead of Prof. Dent, there would be no Bond series for us to enjoy today! That comparison helps put into perspective how far the series has gone and how much the ante has been "upped." Maybe Bond villains need a lesson from Scott Evil, lol.
Scott Evil: "I have a gun, in my room, you give me five seconds, I'll get it, I'll come back down here, BOOM, I'll blow their brains out!"
Dr. Evil: "Scott, you just don't get it, do ya? You don't."
Yup. Or No instructed Dent simply to SHOOT Bond in his bed while he slept rather than putting a bloody spider in his room!!!
Friggin' idiots!
The price we pay for being Bond films fans in that from time to time we have to overlook the bleedin' obvious to enjoy the spectacle of the rest. However, SKYFALL does appear to be the MOONRAKER of absurdities.
However, it should be noted there are a lot fewer oversights of this type in Fleming's originals. Perhaps because they were better thought out and written?
He wanted to destroy her life's work and publicly humiliate her before killing her.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Seeing as the poorly received Hobbit is on 8.3, I'm learning not to set too much store by imdb reviews, it comes down to whether you have a supportive fan base imo.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ue1zbYIX2E
Yes, he would have.
Mmm.
But before James Bond was "Hollywoodised" by Cubby Brocolli, magnified into the tradtional 6'2" 13st 7lbs leading man of Mr Sean Connery, the form of Dirk Bogarde as a virile male lead in a 1950s BRITISH studios Bond would have been fine.
And, consider, what Hollywood action did Bond do in Fleiming's MOONRAKER? Played cards, drove a car, swam a bit, rolled from under a rock-fall, kicked Krebbs up the arse, climbed a rocket gantry and an air-escape tube? Even Bogarde-Bond could have handled this.
And, as we are told these days, James Bond, Fleming version, was never tall, physically impossing, etc. Just ask the Craig nuthuggers.
Michael Craig might have suited the part as well. He was a little-known 1950s British male leading man whose career never really took off. Also, Stanley Baker might have made a go of it during the 1960s. He looked a bit like Connery and had the cynicism of Daniel Craig.
You know, my first image of Daniel Craig is of him with dark hair as Ted Hughes in SYVLIA - knew absolutely sweet-f'all else about DC at the time - and I acutally thought at the time he was Michael Craig's SON!!! I knew Michael when I was a kid from MYSTERIOUS ISLAND, DOCTOR films, etc
Prob didnt turn out right but my post was supposed to be a little sarcastic
He also has dark hair in a film about the artist Francis Bacon. He played Bacon’s boyfriend in it. I don’t know why he wasn’t allowed to dye his hair black for Bond. It would have been no problem for him, and he would have had more acceptance in the role.
I'm not knocking Bogarde. He was a good actor when he was cast in the right role. But his specialty was playing neurotics and I don't see James Bond as being neurotic.