Is AVTAK one of the Greatest Bond Films ever?

AlphaOmegaSinAlphaOmegaSin EnglandPosts: 10,924MI6 Agent
It's got some of the best Villains and one of the best Storylines in the whole Series. In my Opinion it was the perfect swansong for Roger Moore's Time as Bond.
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
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Comments

  • raptors_887raptors_887 CanadaPosts: 215MI6 Agent
    I think AVTAK might have the best villains in the whole series. I just don't like how May Day turns good and helps out Bond in the end. The people watching already have a hatred for her and then all of a sudden we're suppossed to be on her side? They did the same things with Jaws in Moonraker.

    But overall its not a horrible movie like some people say it is. I thought it was average.
    1: Casino Royale 2: Goldeneye 3: Skyfall 4: Octopussy 5: Goldfinger 6: Tomorrow Never Dies 7: The World Is Not Enough 8: The Living Daylights 9: From Russia With Love 10: The Spy Who Loved Me
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,978MI6 Agent
    Is AVTAK one of the best Bonds?
    is the pope a muslim?
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,232MI6 Agent
    AVTAK IS one of the best bond films ever, and I'm glad others are seeing that too :D
    1 - LALD, 2 - AVTAK, 3 - OP, 4 - LTK, 5 - NTTD, 6 - FYEO, 7 - SF, 8 - DN, 9 - DAF, 10 - TSWLM, 11 - OHMSS, 12 - TMWTGG, 13 - GE, 14 - MR, 15 - TLD, 16 - YOLT, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - SP, 21 - TND, 22 - TB, 23 - FRWL, 24 - QOS, 25 - CR

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • sniperUKsniperUK UlsterPosts: 588MI6 Agent
    Replace best with worst.
  • Moore ThanMoore Than EnglandPosts: 3,173MI6 Agent
    A View To A Kill is not one of the greatest Bond films ever. Having said that, it is not the worst either. Much of the criticism revolves around Roger Moore's age, I do not have a problem with that but I do wish the script was more tailored to an ageing Bond. Some of the editing in the Paris chase sequence is really poor because the stunt double is painfully obvious at times. Then there is the Beach Boys and the "Keystone Cops". I don't dislike Stacey Sutton (Tanya Roberts) in the way that many do, her screams do not bother me. But someone like Fiona Fullerton would have been more suitable and more credible.

    On the plus side. Max Zorin is one of the series best villains, terrific performance by Christopher Walken. Memorable characters such as May Day and Sir Godfrey Tibbett. I particularly enjoy the scenes on the Eiffel Tower, the water pumping station, and the ending featuring the airship. Also, very good locations, title song and score.
    Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
  • LastRatStandingLastRatStanding ScotlandPosts: 296MI6 Agent
    There is no doubt that it could have been better than it is, but I suppose you could say that about all the films in some way or an another. There are admittedly a few terrible moments in AVTAK concerning stunt doubles where just a little more effort involved could have made a world of difference, but i'm personally not too bothered by it. The storyline and villainy are strong points in my books and considering Moores age he doesn't do that bad and certainly doesn't take anything away from the film for me. Im sure if Dalton played the role at this point he would have definitely added a more physical edge to Bond in this one but you can't expect much from Moore in this one and delivers more than enough. The beach boys thing never bothered me either, it's pretty funny on the whole. The rest of the soundtrack is amazing - one of the best from any Bond film! It could benefit from more sex appeal, Stacy is beautiful and a nice change from the 'equal' Bond girl but Grace Jones is just hideous. However she is very intimidating and probably good casting. She is certainly memorable - not a fan of how she turns good but I suppose thats just never really a good idea in Bond films (think of Jaws). As for Stacy I don't understand how the fact that she shows fear annoys people so much. Christ, If i was stuck in a burning lift or a flooding mine i'd be screaming my **** off too! Especially if the only person around to save me was a 58 year old Roger Moore :)) (Just a little joke! Neither Stacy's screams or Moore's age bother me in the slightest!)

    AVTAK is very underrated! One of my most watched Bond films and always good entertainment. A little sloppy in areas but so what!?
    Now, they only eat rat.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 9,715MI6 Agent
    In the context of the mid 1980s, where we'd recently endured Kate Capshaw as Indy's belle in Temple of Doom (or did that follow afterwards) Stacy isn't too bad. I'd say she's less obtrusive than Capshaw. The film has a slightly hollow feel, like The Secret of My Success (though that certainly was later).

    The whole villain changing sides thing was dealt with by Kingsley Amis in his James Bond dossier from the early 60s, the idea that an ally Bond might have could, in other circumstances, be the villain.

    I think they wanted to ignore the whole thing of Roger's age, on the basis that you don't draw attention to the bad stuff.

    The lack of a dark angle or Cold War theme is what some fans surely dislike about the film, I feel they go for the OP or TLD or GE approach more.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 7,893MI6 Agent
    It may not be the greatest, but it's certainly one of the most criminally underrated - do yourself a favour and go and buy Andrew McNess' new book James Bond in our Sights: A Close Look at 'A View to A Kill' and you'll appreciate the film more on a subsequent viewing. Get it on Amazon - it's a great read by a great author. :) -{
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    edited February 2013
    Here's my step-by-step logic as to why AVTAK is one of the best:

    1. 1987 onwards marked the modern Bond. Goldeneye and Casino Royale are top notch, but 1962-1985 is the classic period and should be appreciated by any serious Bond enthusiast. Can you imagine a fan who has only seen Brosnan or Craig in the role? The greatest 007 films should, by default, be from this classic era with Lois Maxwell, a John Barry score, Ken Adam sets, Maurice Binder titles, Desmond, Sean or Roger, Walter Gotell, and Bernard Lee. (or contain as many of these elements as possible) AVTAK is the best example of the 007 formula that delivers all the goods, yet tweaks the components enough to keep things fresh.

    2. Within the realm of the Roger Moore era, AVTAK is the 2nd best behind The Spy Who Loved Me.

    3. AVTAK is better than the last few Connery films. (TB, YOLT, DAF, NSNA)

    If you agree with these statements it would place AVTAK somewhere around here:

    1. Goldfinger
    2. Dr No
    3. FRWL
    4. TSWLM
    5. OHMSS*
    6. AVTAK


    Anyway, terms like "greatest" and "best" are extremely subjective and very hard to agree on. I doubt AVTAK will ever be considered one of the best, however it's still nice to see a growing number of supporters. Alongside Andrew McNess' fantastic book there is also Mark O'Connell's Catching Bullets Memoirs of a Bond Fan where he ranks AVTAK as his favorite film.

    *but like many Bond fans Mark considers OHMSS the best. Go figure!
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 7,893MI6 Agent
    Firemass wrote:
    Here's my step-by-step logic as to why AVTAK is one of the best:

    1. 1987 onwards marked the modern Bond. Goldeneye and Casino Royale are great, but 1962-1985 is the classic period and should be appreciated by any serious Bond enthusiast. Can you imagine a fan who has only seen Brosnan or Craig in the role? The greatest 007 films should, by default, be from this classic era with Lois Maxwell, John Berry score, Desmond, Sean or Roger, Walter Gotell, and Bernard Lee. (or contain as many of these elements as possible)

    2. AVTAK is the 2nd best Roger Moore film behind The Spy Who Loved Me. (best villains, best allies, best score, most serious, best car Rolls Royce, best locations, best performance by Rog despite his age)

    3. AVTAK is better than the last few Connery films. (TB, YOLT, DAF, NSNA)

    If you agree with these statements it would automatically place AVTAK somewhere like this:

    1. Goldfinger
    2. Dr No
    3. FRWL
    4. TSWLM
    5. OHMSS
    6. AVTAK


    Anyway, terms like "greatest" and "best" are extremely subjective and very hard to agree on. I doubt AVTAK will ever be considered one of the best, however it's still nice to see a growing number of supporters. Alongside Andrew McNess' book there is also Mark O'Connell's Catching Bullets Memoirs of a Bond Fan where he ranks AVTAK as his favorite film. (but considers OHMSS the best)

    Oh, that's interesting re Mark O'Connell, I'll have to track that one down!
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 7,893MI6 Agent
    Andrew McNess contacted me to thank both you (Firemass) and I on our generous support of AVTAK and of his great book. It's a pleasure to promote it for him, plus see Andrew's blog here:

    http://www.jamesbondinoursights.blogspot.co.uk
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • jeffchjeffch Posts: 163MI6 Agent
    I think AVTAK might have the best villains in the whole series. I just don't like how May Day turns good and helps out Bond in the end. The people watching already have a hatred for her and then all of a sudden we're suppossed to be on her side? They did the same things with Jaws in Moonraker.

    But overall its not a horrible movie like some people say it is. I thought it was average.

    True about May Day, but her turn wasnt nearly as badly done as Jaw's turn
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 7,893MI6 Agent
    edited February 2013
    jeffch wrote:
    I think AVTAK might have the best villains in the whole series. I just don't like how May Day turns good and helps out Bond in the end. The people watching already have a hatred for her and then all of a sudden we're suppossed to be on her side? They did the same things with Jaws in Moonraker.

    But overall its not a horrible movie like some people say it is. I thought it was average.

    True about May Day, but her turn wasnt nearly as badly done as Jaw's turn

    Jaws was a JOKE in Moonraker, and he shouldn't have returned if it was going to be like THAT!

    May Day felt betrayed by Zorin's gunning and exploding of the mine and its innocent workforce, hence her turn to the side of the angels is much more credible IMHO. -{ Read Andew McNess' book - all of these supposed AVTAK "faults" are dealt with there.
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • PolynikesPolynikes U.k.Posts: 276MI6 Agent
    I don't know if its the best... But it has the best villain. I can't help but laugh when zorin guns down his own workforce especially when he kicks that guy in the face. Walken is amazing in this film! The makes a compelling and believeable lunatic.
    "I'm motivated by my duty"

    1.SF 2.CR 3.OHMSS 4.DN 5.YOLT
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,612MI6 Agent
    :)) :)) :))
    Number24 wrote:
    Is AVTAK one of the best Bonds?
    is the pope a muslim?
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,612MI6 Agent
    Exactly!
    sniperUK wrote:
    Replace best with worst.
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • moonraker84moonraker84 Posts: 48MI6 Agent
    AVTAK is not the best imo but it is certainly not the worst either, an entertaining effort, brilliant performance by Walken as Zorin, mayday, tibbit, Dr Mortner were good, i even like Stacey, i dont care she was a little whiney, she was hot.

    Love the locations too.

    Moore may have been too old but i think this was a good swansong for him and is followed by the excellent The Living Daylights.
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,632Chief of Staff
    In a word - no.

    It's not even in the top 20 best Bond films.
    YNWA 97
    Currently Head of Station C: Canada 🇨🇦
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,232MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    In a word - no.

    It's not even in the top 20 best Bond films.

    Just out of curiosity, which bond films (official eon ones) does AVTAK rank higher than for you, if any?
    1 - LALD, 2 - AVTAK, 3 - OP, 4 - LTK, 5 - NTTD, 6 - FYEO, 7 - SF, 8 - DN, 9 - DAF, 10 - TSWLM, 11 - OHMSS, 12 - TMWTGG, 13 - GE, 14 - MR, 15 - TLD, 16 - YOLT, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - SP, 21 - TND, 22 - TB, 23 - FRWL, 24 - QOS, 25 - CR

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,058MI6 Agent
    Jarvio wrote:
    [
    Just out of curiosity, which bond films (official eon ones) does AVTAK rank higher than for you, if any?
    AVTAK is WAAAY better than DAD & MR. I'd say it's roughly equal to FYEO.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • sniperUKsniperUK UlsterPosts: 588MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Jarvio wrote:
    [
    Just out of curiosity, which bond films (official eon ones) does AVTAK rank higher than for you, if any?
    AVTAK is WAAAY better than DAD & MR. I'd say it's roughly equal to FYEO.

    Add OP and that is my bottom five , FYEO and AVTAK equal bottom.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,058MI6 Agent
    sniperUK wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    AVTAK is WAAAY better than DAD & MR. I'd say it's roughly equal to FYEO.

    Add OP and that is my bottom five , FYEO and AVTAK equal bottom.
    *OUCH* that's a bit harsh, isn't it?
    On OP, I mean... :v :))
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • LazenbyfanLazenbyfan USAPosts: 53MI6 Agent
    No. It is not. One of the weakest in my opinion.

    Lousy Bond girl in Stacy, not buying Walken as anything but American, Moore looking like he was 70, and May Day was ruined with "Get Zorin for meeeeee!"

    Oh, and Stacy being picked up by an enormous blimp is just stupid.

    I did like like the Duran Duran song.

    That's it.
    "She likes you, I can see it."
    "You must give me the name of your oculist."
  • Q and MQ and M IrelandPosts: 171MI6 Agent
    How good would it have been with Dalton as Bond going up against Walken's Zorin??? BRILLIANT
  • LastRatStandingLastRatStanding ScotlandPosts: 296MI6 Agent
    Q and M wrote:
    How good would it have been with Dalton as Bond going up against Walken's Zorin??? BRILLIANT

    It would have been pretty darn cool! However if you were to just simply replace Moore with Dalton then the film wouldnt be quite as suited to it's leading man! Dalton would have inspired the writers and producers to make it ever better than it is. It would undoubtedly be better but I could say that about putting Dalton into pretty much any Bond film :) AVTAK is great even with a '70 year old' Moore.
    Now, they only eat rat.
  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    Allow me to share a passage from Andrew McNess' book: A Close Look at AVTAK

    The combination of, a) the various dismissals and defeats endured by Bond, b) the visual presentation of older bond and younger supervillain, and c) Bond's eventual victory, creates the impression of a subtext at work. And the ultimately reassuring subtext is --in uncertain and changing times, where fashion will not always run in Bond's favor, he remains the man to rely upon. Dismissed and overshadowed by the chic and the modern, Bond is the one who prevails in this new, ever-changing world.
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • FiremassFiremass AlaskaPosts: 1,910MI6 Agent
    Plus a couple quotes from the same book:

    "Bond has changed with the times. There is more heart to him, and his attitude toward women is different."
    -Michael Wilson

    "Roger Moore exudes an almost touching air of fading gallantry."
    -Jack Kroll, Newsweek Critic
    My current 10 favorite:

    1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,699MI6 Agent
    edited December 2021

    Apologies for reviving an old thread but I finally got round, this week, to ordering and reading a copy of Andrew McNess's book 'A Close Look At "A View To A Kill"' (the 2015 revised/ expanded edition). It's one of the best, most perceptive books about the cinematic Bond that I've read. Although not entirely convincing when defending the film's jarring juxtapositions of tone, McNess sustains a favourable appreciation of AVTAK which is full of detailed observation and reflection. Highly recommended!

    A book I'd like to read next is 'The Many Facets Of "Diamonds On Forever": James Bond On Page and Screen' - a collection of ten essays edited by Oliver Buckton - but this book is currently too expensive in all its formats.

    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 50 years.
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,842Chief of Staff

    I'll always remember seeing it in 1985--as soon as that cover of "California Girls" came up on the soundtrack I felt like leaving. . .and then came the godawful title sequence (Maurice Binder's worst, in my opinion), with its big-haired models in day-glo body paint, and I felt like throwing up. The rest of the film never sinks to the putridness of the first 15 minutes, but it's never more than just OK. . .you have to endure such things as Roger Moore's stunt double being very visible in the action scenes; a clear dummy of Bond being thrown through a canopy into a wedding cake; a car being smashed into and being broken into perfectly-sawed pieces; cheap rear-screen projection behind the firetruck chase and the blimp scenes; a plot stolen from GOLDFINGER (including a villains' "conference" where the main baddie reveals his plans and then tricks an uncooperative minor thug into his death); and a screeching, annoying leading lady (with all due respect to the late Tanya Roberts). It's a cheesy, shoddy film that may not be a bad way to kill time. . .but how on earth could anyone consider it one of the best in the series?

    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,699MI6 Agent
    edited December 2021

    McNess focuses on the dynamics between Bond and Zorin, Bond and May Day, Zorin and May Day, Bond and Stacey, Zorin and the KGB and Zorin and the workforce of miners, to make a case that the film reworks familiar tropes and conventions in subtley disturbing ways, tonally if not structurally distinct from GF. In particular, McNess explores how the chivalrous but occasionally angered Bond of AVTAK is an interesting swan song for Roger Moore - so much more than the one-dimensional quipster of popular repute, and ageing during a time in the franchise when Bond was supposed to be 'ageless'. With fading gallantry, the domesticated Bond who serves up quiche to Stacey and tenderly tucks her into bed is the same Bond whose dark retort to Christopher Walken's chuckling psychopath is pointedly unamused: "Brilliant. I'm almost speechless with admiration." (One might even say that, tonally, some of this foreshadows aspects of Daniel Craig's swan song, and moments of interaction in NTTD).

    Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 50 years.
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