Bond's Roots

CmdrAtticusCmdrAtticus United StatesPosts: 1,102MI6 Agent
Now that (according to box office success) a large portion of the planet knows that Bond's roots are in Scotland, I always wondered about Fleming's reveal of this in Bond's YOLT obit.

It is has been stated with absolute certainty that Fleming only gave Bond his Scots roots because of Connery and the success of the first films. However, I wonder....

Fleming's father - Valentine - was a Scots born in Newport-on-Tay, Fife, Scotland, and was the son of wealthy Scottish banker Robert Fleming, founder of merchant bank Robert Fleming & Co. He lived in Arnisdale House, Loch Hourn, Inverness-shire, Scotland.

Now, given the fact that from time to time I've read that Fleming was very proud of his Scots ancestry, though he was born in London and lived and died as an Englishman - did he really give Bond Scots roots because of Connery, or did it in fact have more to do with his family and his father? Or...might it just be a strange coincidence that Connery being Scots together with Fleming's worship of his father is what gave him the idea of making Bond a product of the Highlands? Anyway, the fact that Fleming's Scots father is never mentioned in press coverage when it comes to Bond's heritage is very interesting.
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Comments

  • PeppermillPeppermill DelftPosts: 2,860MI6 Agent
    A very interesting question! And I have absolutely no idea. Is there any connection between Fleming and Switzerland?
    1. Ohmss 2. Frwl 3. Op 4. Tswlm 5. Tld 6. Ge 7. Yolt 8. Lald 9. Cr 10. Ltk 11. Dn 12. Gf 13. Qos 14. Mr 15. Tmwtgg 16. Fyeo 17. Twine 18. Sf 19. Tb 20 Tnd 21. Spectre 22 Daf 23. Avtak 24. Dad
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,483MI6 Agent
    Plenty. He spent a lot of time there from an early age.
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    At the moment Bond's roots are definitely Blond. :))

    I agree that Bond would have always had a Scotish background, Fleming spent
    loads of time up there. As already stated the family were scottish so I'd say
    it was a Given that Bond would also have Scottish roots.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Le SamouraiLe Samourai Honolulu, HIPosts: 573MI6 Agent
    There's a footnote in O.F. Snelling's Bond book that quotes Fleming saying "Bond is Scottish. On both sides, as I shall explain in my next book." Fleming died before being able to fulfill that promise.

    I really wonder what Fleming had planned. Does that mean Monique Delacroix was not Bond's birth mother? Or that she wasn't really Swiss? We will never know.
    —Le Samourai

    A Gent in Training.... A blog about my continuing efforts to be improve myself, be a better person, and lead a good life. It incorporates such far flung topics as fitness, self defense, music, style, food and drink, and personal philosophy.
    Agent In Training
  • PeppermillPeppermill DelftPosts: 2,860MI6 Agent
    There's a footnote in O.F. Snelling's Bond book that quotes Fleming saying "Bond is Scottish. On both sides, as I shall explain in my next book." Fleming died before being able to fulfill that promise.

    I really wonder what Fleming had planned. Does that mean Monique Delacroix was not Bond's birth mother? Or that she wasn't really Swiss? We will never know.

    Maybe it was May! :D
    1. Ohmss 2. Frwl 3. Op 4. Tswlm 5. Tld 6. Ge 7. Yolt 8. Lald 9. Cr 10. Ltk 11. Dn 12. Gf 13. Qos 14. Mr 15. Tmwtgg 16. Fyeo 17. Twine 18. Sf 19. Tb 20 Tnd 21. Spectre 22 Daf 23. Avtak 24. Dad
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Peppermill wrote :
    Maybe it was May! :D

    :)) :)) :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Sir James MoloneySir James Moloney LondonPosts: 139MI6 Agent
    There's a footnote in O.F. Snelling's Bond book that quotes Fleming saying "Bond is Scottish. On both sides, as I shall explain in my next book." Fleming died before being able to fulfill that promise.

    I really wonder what Fleming had planned. Does that mean Monique Delacroix was not Bond's birth mother? Or that she wasn't really Swiss? We will never know.

    The problem is that Fleming had no regard for continuity. In FRWL, his mother is English!
    1- CR. 2- OHMSS. 3- FRWL. 4- GF. 5- DN. 6- TLD. 7- SF. 8- TSWLM. 9- GE. 10- LTK.
    11- TB. 12- OP. 13- LALD. 14- TMWTGG. 15- FYEO. 16- YOLT. 17- TND. 18- QoS.
    19- TWINE. 20- AVTAK. 21- MR. 22- DAF. 23- DAD.
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    The problem is that Fleming had no regard for continuity.

    Ah ha! So the Bond movies really are Flemingesque!
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • Sir James MoloneySir James Moloney LondonPosts: 139MI6 Agent
    The problem is that Fleming had no regard for continuity.

    Ah ha! So the Bond movies really are Flemingesque!

    I'm rereading all the Fleming novels now, Blackleiter. If anything, they're worse with continuity than the films! We have a fairly detailed two page description of Bond killing two people in cold blood to gain his Double O number in CR but then he's repulsed by Darko Kerim killing Krilencu in FRWL because Bond's "never killed in cold blood"!

    And the dates are all over the place...
    1- CR. 2- OHMSS. 3- FRWL. 4- GF. 5- DN. 6- TLD. 7- SF. 8- TSWLM. 9- GE. 10- LTK.
    11- TB. 12- OP. 13- LALD. 14- TMWTGG. 15- FYEO. 16- YOLT. 17- TND. 18- QoS.
    19- TWINE. 20- AVTAK. 21- MR. 22- DAF. 23- DAD.
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,651MI6 Agent
    Now that (according to box office success) a large portion of the planet knows that Bond's roots are in Scotland, I always wondered about Fleming's reveal of this in Bond's YOLT obit.

    It is has been stated with absolute certainty that Fleming only gave Bond his Scots roots because of Connery and the success of the first films. However, I wonder....

    Fleming's father - Valentine - was a Scots born in Newport-on-Tay, Fife, Scotland, and was the son of wealthy Scottish banker Robert Fleming, founder of merchant bank Robert Fleming & Co. He lived in Arnisdale House, Loch Hourn, Inverness-shire, Scotland.

    Now, given the fact that from time to time I've read that Fleming was very proud of his Scots ancestry, though he was born in London and lived and died as an Englishman - did he really give Bond Scots roots because of Connery, or did it in fact have more to do with his family and his father? Or...might it just be a strange coincidence that Connery being Scots together with Fleming's worship of his father is what gave him the idea of making Bond a product of the Highlands? Anyway, the fact that Fleming's Scots father is never mentioned in press coverage when it comes to Bond's heritage is very interesting.

    I'm basically pasting below an older post of mine on another thread:

    I'm begining to think that anecdote about Fleming honoring Connery by giving Bond a Scottish heritage is becoming a really sore example of Bond urban legends running amok. Charles Helfenstein in his book, The Making of On Her Majesty's Secret Service documents Fleming's earliest intention to incorporate a Scottish background into Bond's backstory when he commissioned research with the College of Arms for OHMSS, which predates the EON production of Dr. No, which is the earliest time possible when Fleming could have seen Connery in character before the film's release.

    It's also known that Fleming was very kind and even gregarious with the press when he was asked about the film adaptations of his novels, including what he thought of Sean Connery's portrayal by stating that "it was hard to imagine anyone but Connery in the role." But nonetheless, Fleming did not change his character's own history in reaction to Bondmania, since afterall, Fleming was said to be very proud of his own Scottish roots.
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    Well, of course, James Bond refered to himself as an Englishman in the books.... until OHMSS, the first novel published after Connery was cast.

    And Charles' reasearch notwithstanding, Fleming did not utilise any background work that may, or may not, have been undertaken until.... the publication of the novel after the release of Dr NO.

    James Bond himself always believed his was English, said as much, until Mr Connery BECAME James Bond, so go figure. However nice it might be to recontruct Fleming as a romantic Scotsman, if he'd originally intended JB to be Scottish it wouldn't have taken Sir Sean's casting and huge impact on the role to make him finally reveal it, surely?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    England has a long history of having Mixed families, By that I mean
    there are many Scottish/English and Irish/English Families. Who
    sit in the House of Lords but is the Lord of "Ochmagoolie" outside
    Dublin., and his family have been born in Ireland for Centurys But
    He'd still call himself English.
    The Duke of Wellington for example was Born In Dublin but I don't
    think anyone would call him Irish. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    England has a long history of having Mixed families, By that I mean
    there are many Scottish/English and Irish/English Families. Who
    sit in the House of Lords but is the Lord of "Ochmagoolie" outside
    Dublin., and his family have been born in Ireland for Centurys But
    He'd still call himself English.
    The Duke of Wellington for example was Born In Dublin but I don't
    think anyone would call him Irish. :))

    So as a life long Yorkshireman do you think it'd be believeable if I woke up one morning and decided I really felt I was a Lancastrian just because me Dad was from there, 'cos that's the equivalent of what Fleming's JB - apparently - does. :s :)) ;)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    This is news to Me David Schofield I thought everyone in Yorkshire
    secretly wanted to be a Lancastrian. {:) :)) ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    This is news to Me David Schofield I thought everyone in Yorkshire
    secretly wanted to be a Lancastrian. {:) :)) ;)

    Personally, I am delighted to be from God's Country, nor would wish to be from anywhere else.

    And I say what I like, and I like what I say.

    -{ :p :)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I thought I might of been dicing with death with my last remark. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Colonel PinstripeColonel Pinstripe UKPosts: 52MI6 Agent
    edited June 2013
    England has a long history of having Mixed families, By that I mean
    there are many Scottish/English and Irish/English Families. Who
    sit in the House of Lords but is the Lord of "Ochmagoolie" outside
    Dublin., and his family have been born in Ireland for Centurys But
    He'd still call himself English.
    The Duke of Wellington for example was Born In Dublin but I don't
    think anyone would call him Irish. :))

    Yes, though he famously said that "Just because one is born in a stables it does not make one a horse".
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,239MI6 Agent
    Wasn't that Bernard Manning? :#
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,058Chief of Staff
    The problem is that Fleming had no regard for continuity. In FRWL, his mother is English!

    I re-read FRWL recently, SJM, and I don't remember any reference to Bond's mother being English. Perhaps you could give the exact quote to back this claim up?
    I think you may have misremembered the line where Kerim states that his mother came from Somerset.
  • CmdrAtticusCmdrAtticus United StatesPosts: 1,102MI6 Agent
    There's a footnote in O.F. Snelling's Bond book that quotes Fleming saying "Bond is Scottish. On both sides, as I shall explain in my next book." Fleming died before being able to fulfill that promise.

    I really wonder what Fleming had planned. Does that mean Monique Delacroix was not Bond's birth mother? Or that she wasn't really Swiss? We will never know.

    The problem is that Fleming had no regard for continuity. In FRWL, his mother is English!

    It's possible she was born Swiss, but became an English citizen.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,058Chief of Staff
    It's possible she was born Swiss, but became an English citizen.

    It's more likely there's no such quote in FRWL.
  • always shakenalways shaken LondonPosts: 6,287MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    It's possible she was born Swiss, but became an English citizen.

    It's more likely there's no such quote in FRWL.

    Yes i would also go along with Barbel,you cannot become an English citizen,
    you can become a British citizen, :p ,
    By the way, did I tell you, I was "Mad"?
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,058Chief of Staff
    Good point. :)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    # I am an anti-Christ
    I am an anarchist,
    Don't know what I want
    But I know how to get it.
    I wanna destroy the passerby
    'Cos I wanna be anarchy,
    No dogs body # :))

    Would Bond Have Been a Punk?, English, Scottish who cares so long as he wasn't American. {:) :p
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,058Chief of Staff
    I've just checked FRWL again- there is no reference to Bond's mother.
    Monique Delacroix's Swiss nationality is canon.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    On Bond's mothers nationality, I'm completely neutral. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,358MI6 Agent
    If you can't trust the Swiss, what's the world come to? -{
    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    You'd be Cuckoo, Not too. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    English, Scottish who cares so long as he wasn't American. {:) :p

    Hey, when Ray Benson was chucking out his stuff I was terrified he was going to throw in a Bostonian set of grandparents for JB.... :o X-(

    As for Deaver, chuff knows where HIS creation was meant to be from. Certainly, not the mind of Ian Fleming. :s
  • LiamLiam Now where was I? Let me see...Posts: 50MI6 Agent
    There's a footnote in O.F. Snelling's Bond book that quotes Fleming saying "Bond is Scottish. On both sides, as I shall explain in my next book." Fleming died before being able to fulfill that promise.

    The problem with that was that Fleming, at the time of that remark, was already a severely ill man in more than one regard. And possibly not exactly what you'd call sober.


    I really wonder what Fleming had planned. Does that mean Monique Delacroix was not Bond's birth mother? Or that she wasn't really Swiss? We will never know.

    Monique Panchaud de Bottens, one of Fleming's more serious girlfriends during his time in Switzerland (autumn '29 to late summer '31) was the model for Monique Delacroix. Fleming met her in 1930 and they became a serious issue during the subsequent time until Fleming returned to England for his Foreign Office exam. Fleming was passable, but missed nonetheless. Panchaud followed him to England in December 1931 and was met by Eve Fleming's cold and relentless hatred, for Fleming's mother regarded her as the reason her son failed for the third time after Eton and Sandhurst. Monique Panchaud was an easy target for the old dragon and Fleming himself not man enough to stand up against his 'Em'. Panchaud did the decent thing and returned home in January '32. Fleming's mother had once more put her stamp on her son's life.

    In the summer of '63 Fleming went on a personal time journey in Europe, visiting all the places of the golden days of his youth. He also tried to see Monique again. Alas she refused to see him, with a certain degree of justification I daresay. Fleming had a mind to reveal to her how he included her into his work and made her the mother of James Bond.

    Could well be after being rejected he may have changed his mind.



    By the way: Panchaud apparently learned about her role in James Bond's life and supposedly used to say to her own son he had a brother: James Bond.
    I'm not young enough to know everything.
    Wilde
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