Pros and Cons: Tomorrow Never Dies

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Comments

  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    For one film I don't mind Pepper but he adds (to an extent) to the downfall of TMWTGG.

    Pepper was the reason Bond had to make the car jump. First he asks Bond to make a left and then step on it only to see that they are on a different road :)) .... So Pepper had a role to play in building up the car jump sequence :)
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    am747 wrote:
    It is hard to find any major faults with TND.

    Don't tell that to Virgil. :v
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Cons:
    -Limited chemistry between Brosnan and Yeoh.
    -There's something slightly underwhelming about Stamper, apart from the fact that he's a Grant clone.
    Here's how much I love TND:
    I LIKE the chemistry between Brosnan & Yeoh, and Stamper was fine for me, especially in the final fight scene!!

    The ONLY con for me at all in the movie is that Bond seemed to be having a little too much fun during the escape from the parking garage... but then he *does* live in the moment, I guess.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    am747 wrote:
    It is hard to find any major faults with TND.

    Don't tell that to Virgil. :v

    Or me!
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    am747 wrote:
    It is hard to find any major faults with TND.

    Don't tell that to Virgil. :v

    Or me!
    55228365.jpg

    I couldn't resist.... :))
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    haha, I am 3 films in my marathon away from TND, and I am quite looking forward to it :p

    I will have the popcorn and beers at the ready!
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Maybe chris, Firemass, or myself could open a thread for TND lovers.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • Bondage007Bondage007 AustraliaPosts: 371MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    The ONLY con for me at all in the movie is that Bond seemed to be having a little too much fun during the escape from the parking garage... but then he *does* live in the moment, I guess.

    I love that. Especially after he inflates the tyres.

    In reality you wouldn't want to be Fleming's Bond. But Brosnan's portrayal in TND is his coolest of his 4 films...particularly the way he moves from the Hamburg break-in to the end of the car chase

    GE - Solid performance but a bit nervous
    TND - Cool
    TWINE - Soap opera
    DAD - Confident

    I'll have to conclude TND and DAD are the best performances.
    2019 Bondathon...in progress (6) FRWL (7) GE (8) FYEO (9) TND (10) MR (11) GF (12) LALD (13) DAF (14) LTK (15) TMWTGG (16) TB (17) TSWLM (18) DAD (19) AVTAK (20) YOLT (21) QOS (22) SF (23) TWINE (24) SP
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Bondage007 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    The ONLY con for me at all in the movie is that Bond seemed to be having a little too much fun during the escape from the parking garage... but then he *does* live in the moment, I guess.

    I love that. Especially after he inflates the tyres.

    In reality you wouldn't want to be Fleming's Bond. But Brosnan's portrayal in TND is his coolest of his 4 films...particularly the way he moves from the Hamburg break-in to the end of the car chase

    GE - Solid performance but a bit nervous
    TND - Cool
    TWINE - Soap opera
    DAD - Confident

    I'll have to conclude TND and DAD are the best performances.

    No they are not. I think he went to sleep during DAD
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Bondage007 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    The ONLY con for me at all in the movie is that Bond seemed to be having a little too much fun during the escape from the parking garage... but then he *does* live in the moment, I guess.

    I love that. Especially after he inflates the tyres.

    In reality you wouldn't want to be Fleming's Bond. But Brosnan's portrayal in TND is his coolest of his 4 films...particularly the way he moves from the Hamburg break-in to the end of the car chase

    GE - Solid performance but a bit nervous
    TND - Cool
    TWINE - Soap opera
    DAD - Confident

    I'll have to conclude TND and DAD are the best performances.


    Nice to see that there's someone else who likes Brosnan's DAD performance.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Bondage007 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    The ONLY con for me at all in the movie is that Bond seemed to be having a little too much fun during the escape from the parking garage... but then he *does* live in the moment, I guess.

    I love that. Especially after he inflates the tyres.

    In reality you wouldn't want to be Fleming's Bond. But Brosnan's portrayal in TND is his coolest of his 4 films...particularly the way he moves from the Hamburg break-in to the end of the car chase

    GE - Solid performance but a bit nervous
    TND - Cool
    TWINE - Soap opera
    DAD - Confident

    I'll have to conclude TND and DAD are the best performances.


    Nice to see that there's someone else who likes Brosnan's DAD performance.
    Count me in here! {[]
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • CoolHandBondCoolHandBond Mactan IslandPosts: 6,213MI6 Agent
    Only seen this twice before and last time was many years ago - I remember thinking that it was probably PB's best effort.

    Pros:
    PTS - Titles -Music
    HMS Devonshire sinking
    Q briefing
    Carver satellite launch party sequence
    HALO jump
    Bond/Wai Lin Saigon escape and motorbike chase
    Stealth boat climax
    Carver - Stamper - Wai Lin - Dr Kaufman - Gupta - M

    Cons:
    Title song
    Fact that Bond had had a relationship with Carver's wife
    Remote control BMW
    Jack Wade

    Conclusion:
    PB puts in a great performance here even though the delivery of some of his quips is suspect (again as in GE mainly due to them being lame). The film is particularly well cast. Carver harks back to the good old days of megalomaniac villains. Wai Lin is a great ally and has great chemistry with Bond. Stamper is a good henchman. The fact that Bond has had a previous relationship with Carver's wife is so coincidental it is ludicrous and a serious minus point in the film. Dr Kaufman is brilliant and steals the film. The return of Jack Wade is irritating as Joe Don Baker can still not act. It's the first time I have ever actually considered that PB is playing Bond and I am happy to retract my previous statement from GE as this time he does look like a Bond - I think he has taken a lot of notice of SC performances and added them into his act. I also think that Judi Dench has grown into her role as M and I like the performance. Definitely a very likeable Bond entry.
    Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    BluRay Marathon:

    Pros:

    - PTS
    - Hamburg location
    - Pryce's acting as Carver - completely OTT
    - M and the rest of the British power group
    - Plot is interesting, fun
    - Stamper
    - Running time is short
    - Action sequences are all very well done
    - Much bigger budget, feels and looks very well done
    - THE 90s Bond film
    - British elements / navy etc.
    - BMW 750 and bike :D

    Cons:

    - Title song - Sheryl Crow cannot sing
    - Title credits - looks like a Spice Girls music video
    - Wai Lin, lack of chemistry
    - While he's great in the action, PB's acting is pretty bad here
    - One liners are quite weak, the script feels rushed
    - While it is fun - there's too much action
    - Some props look fake, like the saw machine and the underwater laser
    - Karate noises from Wai Lin when she shoots the engine control :#
    - Some quintessential 90s elements in the film date it.

    BluRay:

    Looks alright, quite grainy. Still very clear though.

    Overall:

    It's fun and an enjoyable watch, I actually enjoyed it more than GE this time around. I do switch my brain off to enjoy this film which is good and bad.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Cons:

    - Title song - Sheryl Crow cannot sing
    - Title credits - looks like a Spice Girls music video
    - Wai Lin, lack of chemistry
    - While he's great in the action, PB's acting is pretty bad here
    - One liners are quite weak, the script feels rushed
    - While it is fun - there's too much action
    - Some props look fake, like the saw machine and the underwater laser
    - Karate noises from Wai Lin when she shoots the engine control :#
    - Some quintessential 90s elements in the film date it.

    I disagree on PB's acting in TND, but then again he's my fave Bond.
    I love that TND has a lot of action, makes it fun for me.
    I do agree that the chemistry between Brosnan and Yeoh isn't that great.
    I think Sheryl Crow is a good singer, it's just that for the TSS she doesn't really impress.
    The TS does suck, right now it's my least fave of the ones Kleinman has done.
    I love the one-liners in TND.

    Oh well, we can't all agree. Each to their own.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    I do agree that the chemistry between Brosnan and Yeoh isn't that great.
    No way; they bond as comrades, and at the end seal the deal. :x
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Virgil37Virgil37 Posts: 1,212MI6 Agent
    am747 wrote:
    It is hard to find any major faults with TND.

    Don't tell that to Virgil. :v

    It's nice to be missed. I'd say it's a case of not being able to see the forest for the trees. I agree that there's not major or minor faults, because basically the whole movie is a two hour fault. It's nice to be back, by the way :D
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    I think the way the script was messed around with we're lucky to have a film at all..

    Too many cooks?
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    ^ that's certainly what it feels like!
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    to be fair, it was still being written while filming had already started.
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    True, one of the reasons Antony Hopkins lost interest in it, was they
    Couldn't show him even a half finished script. :#
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    Virgil37 wrote:
    am747 wrote:
    It is hard to find any major faults with TND.

    Don't tell that to Virgil. :v

    It's nice to be missed. I'd say it's a case of not being able to see the forest for the trees. I agree that there's not major or minor faults, because basically the whole movie is a two hour fault. It's nice to be back, by the way :D

    It is more fun to watch than the relatively boring GE so that it self is a positive for a film from 90s ;)
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    to be fair, it was still being written while filming had already started.

    Agent "OK Pierce, we've got a Bond film for you..."
    Piers "Can I see the script..."
    Agent "ummm...er...umm...not really..."
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • JagJag Posts: 1,167MI6 Agent
    Was this thread meant to be hijacked by Brosnan haters? Come on, TND is one of the best Bond films. Definitely Top 5.
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    ^ I think TND is a good action film, but a poor Bond film and a poor Brosnan film. It's his worst effort at acting IMO - perhaps not his fault but overall I find his performance weak.

    The jump between his acting in TND and TWINE is MASSIVE!!
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    ^ I think TND is a good action film, but a poor Bond film and a poor Brosnan film. It's his worst effort at acting IMO
    Now you know why you didn't get a Christmas card from me... :v
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    Yeah chris, I guess we won't agree with hmd regarding Brozzer's performance in TND.

    And he prob doesn't love the stealth boat battle as much as we do.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Yeah chris, I guess we won't agree with him regarding Brozzer's performance in TND.

    And he prob doesn't love the stealth boat battle as much as we do.
    TND was for the 90's what SP is for today- no wonder I love them both. :x
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Virgil37Virgil37 Posts: 1,212MI6 Agent
    It's his worst effort at acting IMO - perhaps not his fault but overall I find his performance weak.
    The jump between his acting in TND and TWINE is MASSIVE!!

    Not Brosnan's fault.
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Virgil37 wrote:
    It's his worst effort at acting IMO - perhaps not his fault but overall I find his performance weak.
    The jump between his acting in TND and TWINE is MASSIVE!!

    Not Brosnan's fault.


    I suspect they were trying to get the script finished. I suspect Brosnan was left to his own devices
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • UnderwaterBattle007UnderwaterBattle007 Posts: 284MI6 Agent
    Ok as my Bond marathon continues next up was Tomorrow Never Dies. My brand new Blu Ray had just arrived so I watched it for the very first time, and before watching the film itself I viewed the deleted scenes.

    What surprised me was Ricky Jay who played Henry Gupta, was in real life a magician of many years and his speciality was card throwing. Apparently he can throw them and they stick doors, walls etc. Scenes of his card throwing were filmed but never used which was a pity they looked good. Hopefully a Directors cut of this film may be released down the line.

    Anyway I enjoyed the film overall. You have to remember this was the era of media moguls, Rupert Murdocks empire and also Robert Maxwell, who "disappeared on his luxury yacht" and I thought it was great how they managed to incorporate that into the film. So the whole global news backdrop was a topic of current affairs back then.

    Jonothan Price as the villain is a bit cartoony however he is a tremendous actor and his portrayal of the "Sparrow" in the Game Of Thrones TV Series is wonderful.

    I actually think these fantastic actors are instructed to play their characters in a certain way by the Producers. The same happened to Charles Grey in DAF, he could and would have been the best Bond villian if he had been allowed to play Blofeld like he played "Mocata" in the Devil Rides Out. That film gave me nightmares when I was younger and Grey was fantastic.

    Anyway back to TND. I loved the briefing with M in the back of the Limo travelling at high speed. The innuendo between Money Penny and Bond is weak. "Cunning Linguist", "You'll have to pump her for information"

    I won't even go into the diving aspects of the film as I have already outlined how wrong they are in previous Bond movies, see my review of Thunderball/FYEO. However the one aspect of diving they did get right, is that it is possible on single breath of gas to undertake a controlled ascent from depth to the surface. I have done this from 50 metres, it's quite scary but when you become a master of your craft it can be done.

    So what else the motorbike chase is good although I'm not sure a helicopter pilot would undertake what the helicopter does in that sequence. When you watch the behind the scenes you find out the blades were all cgi.

    Overall I enjoyed this film more than Goldeneye, I think Brosnan looks cool as Bond, he was certainly a handsome guy and I'm sure he didn't have any problems asking women out thats for sure.

    Next up TWINE.
    FRWl, CR, OHMSS, TSWLM, SF, GF, TLD, LTK, TND, FYEO, OP,TWINE, GE, LALD, TB, SPECTRE, DN, YOLT, TMWTGG, QOS, MR, DAF, DAD, AVTAK, NTTD.

    "Do you expect me to talk? "No Mister Bond I expect you to die"
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