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I think I've reached the stage in my fandom when I love everything pretty much. Dalton is the man. I remember watching Moore, my favourite Bond, and then watching my first Dalton, LTK. It was like a stone hitting water. Bond was not just comedic, but he could be be dark, gritty and serious.
My list keeps changing. But LTK is always in my top five.
1. FYEO
2. OHMSS
3. LTK
4. SP
5. TB
“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
If only SP, FYEO & LTK had the same composer as the others there... 8-)
John Barry is the best -{
But I adore Bill Conti's FYEO soundtrack, and Kamen's LTK score.
"drive in the country" and "license revoked" are fantastic.
I notice no love for Newman's SP score there... :v
I got it for my birthday (which is one week before Christmas, the 18th) and I've listened to it a lot.
There are some great pieces in it.
I love snowplane, detonation and Los muertos vivas estan, but I think as an overall score it does not stand out as truly special. Unlike LTK and FYEO which stand as different, against the normal bond score, which I really love
“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
It got it's share of mediocre reviews (though some critics, like Roger Ebert, liked it a bit more), but more importantly, bad word of mouth.
Ebert actually liked it a lot--he gave it 3 and a half stars out of four. Here's the text of the review:
The James Bond movies have by now taken on the discipline of a sonnet or a kabuki drama: Every film follows the same story outline so rigidly that we can predict almost to the minute such obligatory developments as (1) the introduction of the villain's specialized hit man; (2) the long shot that establishes the villain's incredibly luxurious secret hideout; (3) the villain's fatal invitation to Bond http://www.ajb007.co.uk/img/smilies/ajb007/cheers.gifto spend the night; (4) the moment when the villain's mistress falls for Bond; (5) the series of explosions destroying the secret fortress, and (6) the final spectacular stunt sequence.
Connoisseurs evaluate the elements in a Bond picture as if they were movements in a symphony, or courses in a meal. There are few surprises, and the changes are evolutionary, so that the latest Bond picture is recognizable as a successor to the first, "Dr. No," in 1962. Within this framework of tradition, "Licence to Kill" nevertheless manages to spring some interesting surprises. One is that the Bond character, as played now for the second time by Timothy Dalton, has become less of a British icon and more of an international action hero. The second is that the tempo has been picked up, possibly in response to the escalating pace of the Rambo and Indiana Jones movies. The third is that the villain has fairly modest aims, for a change; he doesn't want to rule the world, he only wants to be a cocaine billionaire.
I've grown uneasy lately about the fashion of portraying drug smugglers in glamorous lifestyles; they're viewed with some of the same glamor as gangsters were, in films of the 1930s. Sure, they die in the end, but they have a lot of fun in the meantime. In "Licence to Kill," however, the use of a drug kingpin named Sanchez (Robert Davi) and his henchmen (Anthony Zerbe, Frank McRae) is apparently part of an attempt to update the whole series and make it feel more contemporary.
There are still, of course, the obligatory scenes. The film begins with a sensationally unbelievable stunt sequence (Bond and friend lasso a plane, then parachute to a wedding ceremony). But then the action switches to the recognizable modern world in and around Key West, Fla., where the British agent finds himself involved in an operation to capture Sanchez and cut his pipeline of cocaine.
Like all Bond villains, Sanchez has unlimited resources and a beautiful mistress. His operation uses an underwater shark-nabbing company as its cover, and keeps a few sharks on hand so they can dine on federal agents. After Bond's friend, Felix Leiter, is mistreated by the bad guys, 007 begins a savage vendetta against Sanchez, which involves elaborate and violent stunt sequences in the air, on land, and underwater.
He is aided in his campaign by the beautiful Pam Bouvier (Carey Lowell, introduced as "Miss Kennedy, my executive secretary"), and saved more than once by Sanchez' beautiful mistress, Lupe Lamora (Talisa Soto). Both women are as beautiful as the historical Bond standard, but more modern - more competent, intelligent and capable, and not simply sex objects. This is no doubt part of the plan, announced before Dalton's first Bond picture, to de-emphasize the character's promiscuous sex life. Compared to his previous films, 007 is practically chaste this time.
My favorite moments in all the Bond pictures involve The Fallacy of the Talking Killer, in which the villain has Bond clearly in his power, and then, instead of killing him instantly, makes the mistake of talking just long enough for Bond to make a plan. The fallacy saves Bond's life two or three times in this movie - especially once when all that Davi has to do is slice his neck.
"Licence to Kill" ends, as all the Bond films do, with an extended chase and stunt sequence. This one involves some truly amazing stunt work, as three giant gasoline trucks speed down a twisting mountain road, while a helicopter and a light aircraft also join in the chase. There were moments when I was straining to spot the trickery, as a big semi-rig spun along tilted to one side, to miss a missile aimed by the bad guys. But the stunts all look convincing, and the effect of the closing sequence is exhilarating.
On the basis of this second performance as Bond, Dalton can have the role as long as he enjoys it. He makes an effective Bond - lacking Sean Connery's grace and humor, and Roger Moore's suave self-mockery, but with a lean tension and a toughness that is possibly more contemporary. The major difference between Dalton and the earlier Bonds is that he seems to prefer action to sex. But then so do movie audiences, these days. "Licence to Kill" is one of the best of the recent Bonds.
Pretty good then, especially since it came from the most famous and popular reviewer of the period. It would be also interesting to see a broader sample of reviews. On the other hand, the Bond films have never been critical darlings (especially not in the Moore era and the 80s) and reviews have little to do with their success. As for "word of mouth," it's an overused concept (especially since it's often dependent on marketing) and extremely hard to actually prove or quantify.
Yes, I looked that up before I posted -- I don't think 3.5 stars out of 4 reflects the content of the actual review. He gives it nearly a perfect score in that sense, but then writes comparatively little that praises or gushes about the film.
He even uses "interesting," a term many of us in the teaching profession put on student papers when we can't think of anything else to say but can offer a neutral statement sometimes taken as complimentary.
Ebert was like that. He often got details wrong, such as the statement about three tanker trucks and a helicopter and plane in the film's climax. (Of course, maybe I'm misremembering this, as it's been a long time since I saw it.) His final statement that it is one of the best of the Bonds in some ways seems like a backwards compliment when he points out how rigidly formulaic and illogical the Bond films are and how Dalton lacks so many qualities of previous Bonds.
I don't know that Ebert was the most famous or popular reviewer of the time. He had two TV shows with Siskel, who was easily as well known, but he wasn't taken as seriously then as he is today, as reviewers like Richard Schickel and Pauline Kael, and even Gene Shalit, Peter Travers, and Rex Reed, for instance, were certainly well known and influential. But he certainly was known.
Word of mouth, then and now, is critical to the success of anything. It is hard to quantify, but then so is so much of anything in advertising and promotion. In fact, the inability to quantify efforts is exactly the reason why there is always the "selling" aspect, convincing clients that there is a benefit. (Millions of dollars spent or thousands of page views does not necessarily translate into more product sold.) I worked in public relations for more than five years before becoming an academic, back in the days when we literally clipped out newspaper stories to report "column inches" as a measure of the success of our efforts. In reality, though, it didn't mean that people necessarily read those columns or did anything regarding the product or service as a result. It simply implied quantifiable results.
But more to the point, I'll say that take "a bit" out of my former statement and let it read as is. I still think that more accurately reflects the actual content of Ebert's review, but not the summary stars. But any way it gets spun, Licence to Kill was not a major hit.
In this clip from the TV show, by the way, where Ebert still shows reservations despite his praise, Siskel certainly sounds more like what I recall critics (and moviegoers) saying at the time:
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
BIG TAMWrexham, North Wales, UK.Posts: 773MI6 Agent
Difficult to know how a third Dalton would have played out. I imagine it would have been more like THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS stylistically, with a hint of '70s excess - for those who criticised his pictures for being humourless (though I found them amusing enough where appropriate). It would have been a hit but to what level of success I don't know. I still think Dalton was appreciated more by the die-hards than the general public. He just didn't seem to connect from what I could see. He was interviewed about his role as Rhett Butler in SCARLETT in 1994, using some inappropriate language to describe her character. It didn't endear him to the masses across the pond from what I remember.
As one of the masses across the pond, I don't recall being particularly effected by what Dalton said when interviewed about his role in "Scarlett" (a TV mini-series). By 1994, Dalton's tenure as Bond had ended anyway. We were just happy to know that James Bond would finally be back.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,991Quartermasters
You could say that in a sense Dalton was ahead of his time, in terms of a return to Fleming, but IMO retaining John Glen and the elements of broader-style humour (with which the Shakespearean was clearly uncomfortable) was a mistake that unfortunately burdened Dalton's tenure.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I think that Dalton wasn't ahead if his time. one against an army has been done often before.
Well...sure. But I'm not sure I'd define his run that way, any more than I would any other Bond actor's. For me, Dalton was more about a return to the literary source material.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Dalton is my favourite. Not for the clothing, but for everything else, I think. I just really like his delivery. Such contrast to Austin Pow... Roger Moore
"It is better to be as well dressed as possible to stave off, at least for a very little bit, the total collapse of civilization"
I think that Dalto wasn't ahead if his time. one against an army has been done often before.
Well...sure. But I'm not sure I'd define his run that way, any more than I would any other Bond actor's. For me, Dalton was more about a return to the literary source material.
That's right
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
About ten years ago I found myself watching an episode of TV's "Agatha Christie's Marple" and who should be guesting but....
Timothy Dalton. The plot required a flashback of about 20 years so Tim was made up to suit and as you can see looked not too bad at all. His voice, though, was what hit the spot for me. IMHO, he's second only to you-know-who as the voice of James Bond!
Comments
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I think I've reached the stage in my fandom when I love everything pretty much. Dalton is the man. I remember watching Moore, my favourite Bond, and then watching my first Dalton, LTK. It was like a stone hitting water. Bond was not just comedic, but he could be be dark, gritty and serious.
My list keeps changing. But LTK is always in my top five.
1. FYEO
2. OHMSS
3. LTK
4. SP
5. TB
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
But I adore Bill Conti's FYEO soundtrack, and Kamen's LTK score.
"drive in the country" and "license revoked" are fantastic.
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
I love the FYEO score, but it doesn't have the right feel for a Bond film. "Runaway" is a brilliant track.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
There are some great pieces in it.
I love snowplane, detonation and Los muertos vivas estan, but I think as an overall score it does not stand out as truly special. Unlike LTK and FYEO which stand as different, against the normal bond score, which I really love
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
He even uses "interesting," a term many of us in the teaching profession put on student papers when we can't think of anything else to say but can offer a neutral statement sometimes taken as complimentary.
Ebert was like that. He often got details wrong, such as the statement about three tanker trucks and a helicopter and plane in the film's climax. (Of course, maybe I'm misremembering this, as it's been a long time since I saw it.) His final statement that it is one of the best of the Bonds in some ways seems like a backwards compliment when he points out how rigidly formulaic and illogical the Bond films are and how Dalton lacks so many qualities of previous Bonds.
I don't know that Ebert was the most famous or popular reviewer of the time. He had two TV shows with Siskel, who was easily as well known, but he wasn't taken as seriously then as he is today, as reviewers like Richard Schickel and Pauline Kael, and even Gene Shalit, Peter Travers, and Rex Reed, for instance, were certainly well known and influential. But he certainly was known.
Word of mouth, then and now, is critical to the success of anything. It is hard to quantify, but then so is so much of anything in advertising and promotion. In fact, the inability to quantify efforts is exactly the reason why there is always the "selling" aspect, convincing clients that there is a benefit. (Millions of dollars spent or thousands of page views does not necessarily translate into more product sold.) I worked in public relations for more than five years before becoming an academic, back in the days when we literally clipped out newspaper stories to report "column inches" as a measure of the success of our efforts. In reality, though, it didn't mean that people necessarily read those columns or did anything regarding the product or service as a result. It simply implied quantifiable results.
But more to the point, I'll say that take "a bit" out of my former statement and let it read as is. I still think that more accurately reflects the actual content of Ebert's review, but not the summary stars. But any way it gets spun, Licence to Kill was not a major hit.
In this clip from the TV show, by the way, where Ebert still shows reservations despite his praise, Siskel certainly sounds more like what I recall critics (and moviegoers) saying at the time:
http://siskelandebert.org/video/N86Y1G6N69XA/License-To-Kill--Peter-Pan--When-Harry-Met-Sally-1989
What's fascinating is that both of them seem to praise the qualities that are least like those of a Bond film.
Indeed -{ Bravo
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Well...sure. But I'm not sure I'd define his run that way, any more than I would any other Bond actor's. For me, Dalton was more about a return to the literary source material.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
That's right
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I don't need to repeat what I've said earlier in this thread.
So for now I am watching your little kumba - Daltona fest from a distance
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Timothy Dalton. The plot required a flashback of about 20 years so Tim was made up to suit and as you can see looked not too bad at all. His voice, though, was what hit the spot for me. IMHO, he's second only to you-know-who as the voice of James Bond!