This may have been discussed before... but does anyone else cringe in the train scene from SPECTRE when Bond is trying to teach Swann about the Sig and as he hands her the pistol with a round chambered he has his finger all in the trigger guard as he places it on the table .. she then picks it up and points it right at him as she ejects the chambered round..
Yep. The Bond films are full of real-world firearms safety violations. DC prefers the hammer cocked/finger on the trigger look which is often written off as "his style." Let's not forget the randomly discarded PPKs. )
All done for dramatic effect of course, and most of us here understand that. The potential issue is when people who aren't firearms-saavy interpret something as legitimate.
I edit, therefore I am.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
Yep. The Bond films are full of real-world firearms safety violations. DC prefers the hammer cocked/finger on the trigger look which is often written off as "his style." Let's not forget the randomly discarded PPKs. )
All done for dramatic effect of course, and most of us here understand that. The potential issue is when people who aren't firearms-saavy interpret something as legitimate.
I disagree. This is SOP within British SF. Most people, if not all in Brit SF service consider it very dumb to have your finger outside the triggerguard and without the fastest fire method selected when facing highly dangerous hostile situations. That gets you killed. Proper trigger discipline is to train very hard and intensively so you can do this without blue on blue situations. Something we've never had a problem with. Finger on trigger and hammer cocked is a must if you want to win a firefight with someone who doesn't work in law enforcement and regular military service. This outside the triggerguard nonsense started in LE and with regular soldiers conscripted who lacked intensive training during the mid 60's, so that untrained personal don't panic pull the trigger. This was then handed down to civilian training for the same reason. SF are way beyond that skill level and are taught finger on trigger or lose time and die. As Bond is highly trained, he would be within this remit too. Within UKSF, the only time you have your sidearm drawn and with you finger outside the trigger guard, is when you are running. At all other times your weapon is holstered. If the situation is so dire you need to draw it. Finger on trigger and point in the direction of threat. That is simplified of course, but for the most part, how UKSF are trained.
I disagree. This is SOP within British SF. Most people, if not all in Brit SF service consider it very dumb to have your finger outside the triggerguard and without the fastest fire method selected when facing highly dangerous hostile situations. That gets you killed. Proper trigger discipline is to train very hard and intensively so you can do this without blue on blue situations. Something we've never had a problem with. Finger on trigger and hammer cocked is a must if you want to win a firefight with someone who doesn't work in law enforcement and regular military service. This outside the triggerguard nonsense started in LE and with regular soldiers conscripted who lacked intensive training during the mid 60's, so that untrained personal don't panic pull the trigger. This was then handed down to civilian training for the same reason. SF are way beyond that skill level and are taught finger on trigger or lose time and die. As Bond is highly trained, he would be within this remit too. Within UKSF, the only time you have your sidearm drawn and with you finger outside the trigger guard, is when you are running. At all other times your weapon is holstered. If the situation is so dire you need to draw it. Finger on trigger and point in the direction of threat. That is simplified of course, but for the most part, how UKSF are trained.
Disagree away. Clearly different standards then.
I don't know anything about UKSF. All I can relate is first-hand professional knowledge of USSF and USLE SOP. The US standard is that until a threat is identified and/or being engaged, the trigger finger remains outside of the trigger guard. Period. No exceptions. This is consistent for academy trainees to seasoned operators. Failure to comply will get the violator ejected from the range or removed from a team without delay. The rationale for this is the dynamic of involuntary (finger) muscle movement response to certain stimuli. Scientifically-proven startle or reflex myoclonus which no level of training can eliminate. As a friend once told me, "You don't have to agree with gravity either, but gravity don't give a s**t." )
All that said, my original hammer and trigger finger criticism specifically referred to some of DC's PPK publicity stills which show no apparent need for the immediate combat readiness you described.
Thank you Ed! I'm going to play with your image and see how it comes out. As far as the trigger discipline debate. I'm not LE (yet) or military, but i personally openly criticize the Bond publicity shots and the like for the lack there of. I'm a firm believer in seconds matter from my career as a firefighter, as far as my firearm career, I can see how miliseconds can matter from my time competitive shooting, but can't imagine the risk of "blue on blue" regardless of amount of training
Great score, Ray. Thanks for sharing the video, and enjoy!
I edit, therefore I am.
PPK 7.65mmSaratoga Springs NY USAPosts: 1,230MI6 Agent
I agree with Cajun, that 1966 PPK in 7.65mm is a beauty. Also if it was up to me, I would defiantly have Bond carrying both the P99 and the PPK as a backup gun. Raymond Benson did this for many of his James Bond novels, so why not do it in the films?
I agree with Cajun, that 1966 PPK in 7.65mm is a beauty. Also if it was up to me, I would defiantly have Bond carrying both the P99 and the PPK as a backup gun. Raymond Benson did this for many of his James Bond novels, so why not do it in the films?
That actually would be a fantastic idea! I would put the P99 up against any current handgun for accuracy, form, and function. The PPK is just, well..the PPK, lol.
I agree with Cajun, that 1966 PPK in 7.65mm is a beauty. Also if it was up to me, I would defiantly have Bond carrying both the P99 and the PPK as a backup gun. Raymond Benson did this for many of his James Bond novels, so why not do it in the films?
That actually would be a fantastic idea! I would put the P99 up against any current handgun for accuracy, form, and function. The PPK is just, well..the PPK, lol.
I disagree. This is SOP within British SF. Most people, if not all in Brit SF service consider it very dumb to have your finger outside the triggerguard and without the fastest fire method selected when facing highly dangerous hostile situations. That gets you killed. Proper trigger discipline is to train very hard and intensively so you can do this without blue on blue situations. Something we've never had a problem with. Finger on trigger and hammer cocked is a must if you want to win a firefight with someone who doesn't work in law enforcement and regular military service. This outside the triggerguard nonsense started in LE and with regular soldiers conscripted who lacked intensive training during the mid 60's, so that untrained personal don't panic pull the trigger. This was then handed down to civilian training for the same reason. SF are way beyond that skill level and are taught finger on trigger or lose time and die. As Bond is highly trained, he would be within this remit too. Within UKSF, the only time you have your sidearm drawn and with you finger outside the trigger guard, is when you are running. At all other times your weapon is holstered. If the situation is so dire you need to draw it. Finger on trigger and point in the direction of threat. That is simplified of course, but for the most part, how UKSF are trained.
I can certainly appreciate that explanation... but back to the scene I described.. he's in a train.. with Dr. Swann.. no dangerous hostile situation.. aaaaaand she points it right at him.. Plus he's supposed to be teaching a civilian who, granted, killed a guy with daddy's Beretta once.. but an untrained civilian.. you'd think he'd show a better example.. cringeworthy scene... Most certainly not arguing the extent of UKSF training nor the level of training the character of Bond has.. I'm just reverting back to the idea of that no matter how highly trained the operator may be.. if they are trying to instruct a civilian.. different standards apply.. but... in the end ... it's Hollywood and not reality.. so the level of knowledge - despite having on set "experts"- is still a gap in reality and reasonableness..
Well, it’s been a minute, but I finally got around to finishing a new video on the Walther P5! Please help me grow my channel by liking and subscribing. Leave a comment and let me know what you think! https://youtu.be/ZXTgmRgwXmY
Only one question though: In the "The Bond Armory: Walther P-99 9mm" at roughly 4:44 point, you say that DC puts his P99 on the SA mode in the Casino Royale when he picks up his Aston Martin. Are you sure that is the case? Because to me, that looks more like a sequence of: press check->decock. Which would make also more sense (to me), when you are picking up a gun that was provided to you by some one else.
Anyways, like I said, just a minor niggle in a series of great vids, keep up the good work, this is the kind contribution which makes this a great community!
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
He checks chamber and decocks as you say. He decocks after killing Dryden too.
Only one question though: In the "The Bond Armory: Walther P-99 9mm" at roughly 4:44 point, you say that DC puts his P99 on the SA mode in the Casino Royale when he picks up his Aston Martin. Are you sure that is the case? Because to me, that looks more like a sequence of: press check->decock. Which would make also more sense (to me), when you are picking up a gun that was provided to you by some one else.
Anyways, like I said, just a minor niggle in a series of great vids, keep up the good work, this is the kind contribution which makes this a great community!
I appreciate the kind words! If I remember the sequence, Bond checks the magazine, checks to see if there is a round in the chamber (which would put the P99 in the SA position) then engages the decocker, placing the firearm back in DA
Hey everyone! So I’m looking for some help growing my YouTube channel. I currently have 3 more videos in the works, but have to refilm some footage since I left the lenses cap on the camera
Anyway, anyone have any suggestions on what firearms you’d like to see reviewed? I welcome all suggestions and criticisms. Also, views and subscriptions are always appreciated!
Comments
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This was my dad's. You'll remember it (or one similar) in the hands of a henchman or two...
All done for dramatic effect of course, and most of us here understand that. The potential issue is when people who aren't firearms-saavy interpret something as legitimate.
I disagree. This is SOP within British SF. Most people, if not all in Brit SF service consider it very dumb to have your finger outside the triggerguard and without the fastest fire method selected when facing highly dangerous hostile situations. That gets you killed. Proper trigger discipline is to train very hard and intensively so you can do this without blue on blue situations. Something we've never had a problem with. Finger on trigger and hammer cocked is a must if you want to win a firefight with someone who doesn't work in law enforcement and regular military service. This outside the triggerguard nonsense started in LE and with regular soldiers conscripted who lacked intensive training during the mid 60's, so that untrained personal don't panic pull the trigger. This was then handed down to civilian training for the same reason. SF are way beyond that skill level and are taught finger on trigger or lose time and die. As Bond is highly trained, he would be within this remit too. Within UKSF, the only time you have your sidearm drawn and with you finger outside the trigger guard, is when you are running. At all other times your weapon is holstered. If the situation is so dire you need to draw it. Finger on trigger and point in the direction of threat. That is simplified of course, but for the most part, how UKSF are trained.
I don't know anything about UKSF. All I can relate is first-hand professional knowledge of USSF and USLE SOP. The US standard is that until a threat is identified and/or being engaged, the trigger finger remains outside of the trigger guard. Period. No exceptions. This is consistent for academy trainees to seasoned operators. Failure to comply will get the violator ejected from the range or removed from a team without delay. The rationale for this is the dynamic of involuntary (finger) muscle movement response to certain stimuli. Scientifically-proven startle or reflex myoclonus which no level of training can eliminate. As a friend once told me, "You don't have to agree with gravity either, but gravity don't give a s**t."
All that said, my original hammer and trigger finger criticism specifically referred to some of DC's PPK publicity stills which show no apparent need for the immediate combat readiness you described.
https://youtu.be/kA1g3vpG7fw
That actually would be a fantastic idea! I would put the P99 up against any current handgun for accuracy, form, and function. The PPK is just, well..the PPK, lol.
+1
-{
I can certainly appreciate that explanation... but back to the scene I described.. he's in a train.. with Dr. Swann.. no dangerous hostile situation.. aaaaaand she points it right at him.. Plus he's supposed to be teaching a civilian who, granted, killed a guy with daddy's Beretta once.. but an untrained civilian.. you'd think he'd show a better example.. cringeworthy scene... Most certainly not arguing the extent of UKSF training nor the level of training the character of Bond has.. I'm just reverting back to the idea of that no matter how highly trained the operator may be.. if they are trying to instruct a civilian.. different standards apply.. but... in the end ... it's Hollywood and not reality.. so the level of knowledge - despite having on set "experts"- is still a gap in reality and reasonableness..
https://youtu.be/ZXTgmRgwXmY
Thank you sir! Certainly a challenge lol
Regards
That’s not a bad idea
The only thing missing was super slo-mo.
I too agree, a side by side comparison with Bond's other Walthers would be great to see.
Only one question though: In the "The Bond Armory: Walther P-99 9mm" at roughly 4:44 point, you say that DC puts his P99 on the SA mode in the Casino Royale when he picks up his Aston Martin. Are you sure that is the case? Because to me, that looks more like a sequence of: press check->decock. Which would make also more sense (to me), when you are picking up a gun that was provided to you by some one else.
Anyways, like I said, just a minor niggle in a series of great vids, keep up the good work, this is the kind contribution which makes this a great community!
-Mr Arlington Beech
I also wished he has similar actions with the ppk. I don't seem to see him using the decocker on that one.
And when Madeleine Swann empties the sig she does it glock style. Sig has decocker, no need to pull the trigger on the sig.
Regards
Regards.
I appreciate the kind words! If I remember the sequence, Bond checks the magazine, checks to see if there is a round in the chamber (which would put the P99 in the SA position) then engages the decocker, placing the firearm back in DA
I’ve said it before, your wealth of knowledge astounds me lol -{
Anyway, anyone have any suggestions on what firearms you’d like to see reviewed? I welcome all suggestions and criticisms. Also, views and subscriptions are always appreciated!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsXryiYUACsDVAk-vQ6vxig
And this is in the works as well!
I actually covered the Walther P5 in my last video!
https://youtu.be/ZXTgmRgwXmY