@Marker briefly said he loved his rewatch of OHMSS and seeing it was on Boxing Day morning on telly, I caught it but can't share his love. For a happier review from some years back, here's the time I caught it at the Prince Charles cinema.
It repays undivided attention on the big screen but I don't enjoy it on telly. With the best will in the world, I found it boring and switched off at the nadir, when Bond talks to Draco in his office about Tracy, it's dead in the water. I think they knew that scene was duff and tried to edit it to bits so it makes even less sense and smother Barry's music on it.
Early locations are dull imo, I'd prefer it if they stuck to Marseilles and the South of France as in the book as I think it has a seedy cinematic glamour. Does it specify it's Portugal in the film? Maybe they do in the pre-credits with M and Q, but... Marseilles et al is a place where interesting and bad things might happen but Lisbon has the aura of tax haven where people go not to make money but to accrue it, to see it build interest and the same goes for Berne later, of course. It all seems so middle-aged and unsexy and while I've gone to Piz Gloria after seeing this, I've never had any desire to go to Lisbon. It has no on-screen buzz and the film just doesn't interest me despite the sporadic fist fights, the sexual charge that we should see between Bond and Tracey as she resists him and messes him around just isn't there on the telly. The film has that awful boring feel of a lot of late 60s movies, there isn't the happy expectancy of the earlier Bonds, the flirtatiousness. There is also something ill-inducing about it - seeing it aged 8 on the telly I was indeed off sick for a fortnight afterwards. Even the Barry music in Piz Gloria, it's a bit odd.
I hadn't intended to sit down and watch this but I was accompanied by my sister who was a bit merry with wine so that made it chirpier. She scorned the 'idiot' Tatiana, it's true, she does have an unsympathetic part in many ways, and sympathised with Rosa Klebb 'she's only trying to do her job, it's not her fault some bloke messed it up, and she's trying to put it right in the final scene. My hairdresser Foo once sent me out with a haircut like that...' and so on.
She came up with two excellent observations - when Bond checks out Red Grant's attache case in Grant's absence, to see he is the real deal, he makes sure to open it in the special way Q instructs, assuming that he's been issued with the same kit. Though hand on, wouldn't that imply that Grant also knew about the attache case trick? Hmm, maybe I'll have to check that again. [Edit: Or is Bond checking the case of his intended replacement, the case Grant has nicked? If so, isn't it odd that Grant himself never opens the case wrongly? He could appear in the dining car with white powder all over him, looking sheepish: 'Sorry old man, forgot about Q's tricky attache case, guess I made a fool of myself' to explain it.]
Secondly, Grant refers to Bond as 'old man' which seems to be borrowed from The Great Gatsby, where Gatsby gives away his non-Ivy League lineage by calling everyone 'old sport' which was seen as a bit much.
FRWL is dialogue heavy and one of the better ones for Gogglebox comments Going back to Tatiana, it was said they had a body double for the shot of the legs via Kerim Bey's periscope, because the actress doesn't really walk very well at all, & you can see they keep cutting away when she is seen to walk, such as the approach to Klebb's office.
Also, isn't the reason the third Siamese fighting fish stays apart from the other two is the sheet of glass between them?
A fair bit of Thunderball, in some ways its first half is similar to From Russia With Love in that there's lots of stuff you can have fun observing - but it's different stuff, it's quite dense but it's the oddball, what-the-f?? stuff I mentioned when I saw it at the Prince Charles cinema a couple of years ago, whereas FRWL is mostly knowingly funny.
Like, he's in his Aston being pursued by a black gangster's car which begins shooting (it's Lippe) and we see him about to erect his bullet proof shield, as seen in the pre-credits. But he then doesn't do it, he waits. Like, erm, you wouldn't would you, it would be bang, it's up! Not patiently wait for Lippe to have another pop at him.
Then Bond just drives on after the crash when he could chase after the motorcycle assassin and find out what's what.
He never seems to interrogate anyone, like 'the fish he's throwing back in the sea'. Also, after dining with Domino we see Leiter standing just 10 feet or so behind Bond. We don't know who he is yet, it's a new actor, but surely Bond would notice? Or was there a scene cut?
They have to do all sorts of things to make a pretty dull spy movie more interesting, it gets convoluted.
Hi all,read an online pole ( which can be subjective) apparently these films were voted the best top 5 JB films,myself though I would have had Thunderball in the list, anyway I'm watching my way through the listed films what do you think of the list.
Saw first bit of Diamonds are Forever before turning over to another gem-based film, The Pink Panther Strikes Back.
My sister noticed that at the Slumber Crematorium they have Tiffany lampshades, a nod to Tiffany Case presumably. Also, Slumber's line 'Ashes to ashes,' to which Bond replies 'Dust to Dust' is really a Wint and Kidd type line, but perhaps they couldn't find a way to give it to them.
The last time my wife and I watched the entire franchise was before NTTD came out. We felt it was time to do another rewatch, especially with the Amazon purchase. We started on DR. NO on Saturday.
I've always 'liked' this film and appreciated just how well it kicks things off for the franchise, and I've always admired just how fully formed Connery is as Bond from the beginning. For some reason, this viewing really clicked for me and I now place it much higher in the overall franchise rating. I now put it as the second best Connery Bond film (after FRWL) with the caveat that my full rewatch might make me reevaluate the other films. Budget and a few pacing issues aside, this is pretty much flawless, and all of my perceived flaws are rectified in the superb FRWL. DN walks so that FRWL can run.
I also appreciate just how raw and serious Bond is in both DN and FRWL. There's no winking at the camera or playing things strictly for laughs, like in GF onwards. I can now really see and acknowledge the formula established here that would be reintroduced with the first two Craig era films.
FRWL holds up beautifully as a strong 'spycraft' film. It's wonderfully executed, well paced, and funny when it needs to be without being forced. There's nothing in there that feels like a meta wink to the audience.
GF did not hold up beautifully, especially immediately following FRWL. All of the serious spycraft is jettisoned in favor of fantasy. There are a lot of fun elements in there but the overall feeling of plausibility is completely absent. It's still a 'good' film but it's a definite tonal change from what came before.
Well, generally I'd advise Dr No and FRWL as a double bill, and I always found that after those GF then falls down a bit whereas if you watch it as a standalone it works better. I'd have GF and TB as a double bill instead, they occupy the same universe.
At the cinema I'd have FRWL and OHMSS as a double bill given they occupy the same sort of universe in terms of credibility, Bond is young in both and it makes more sense in terms of Bond meeting Blofeld for the first time.
OHMSS is my favorite Bond film, just ahead of FRWL and TSWLM. At least, that's my current ranking...we'll see how this franchise rewatch shakes out. The good news is that my wife is incredibly enthusiastic about this rewatch and is already hounding me about which one we're watching tonight ('it's THUNDERBALL, dear').
Well, we did TB. It played pretty great for both of us last night and even the underwater stuff...which normally feels unending...played nicely.
A few things I noticed this time around:
What's the point of Bond going back to Palmyra? He breaks in but apparently has no agenda because he does nothing but find Paula dead. It's like the entire sequence exists simply for the sharkpool sequence.
The concept of time is wonky. Bond is at Shrublands massaging the one lady with the mink glove...cut to Derval getting killed and replaced. 'Derval' then goes to the NATO headquarters, gets the mission briefing, and takes off in the Vulcan. The plane crashes in the water. There's a feeling that a lot of time has gone...except that, after the Vulcan crashes in the water, the movie cuts back to Bond still massaging that lady with the mink glove. What????
The editing for TB is all over the shop. We'll, it isn't truly awful, but Oeter Hunt recognised the inconsistencies even as he cut and pasted away in the edit suite. His theory runs that if you maintain a high pace with plenty of action to distract an audience, they won't notice the flaws in the plot and the back-to-front sections of the narrative.
That worked for the days of cinema but with TV, home ownership and streaming, it doesn't quite hold up. I won't list all the problems, but you listed two of tge obvious ones.
Another of TB problems is the production team's want to create a huge event film, with more stunts, action, humour, exotica etc than before. Hence Paula was invented as an extra slice of victim eyecanďy. IMO her role us completely unnecessary. Bond has his suspicions about Largo already and when he tours Palmyra, he should be using his Q branch watch to pick up radiation levels, perhaps off a stray diving mask. Bond decides to raid the estate during the Junkanoo. He doesn't find the bombs obviously, but all the recovery gear, solidifying his suspicion about the Disco Volante's underwater hatch. When Bobd returns to his hotel, Fiona waits and the action continues as normal. Any of Paula's earlier scenes and dialogues can then be taken by Pinder, he is after all the SIS head man I the Bahamas.
We did YOLT two nights ago. There are a few handwave 'because movie' moments in it but nothing as egregious as in TB. Overall, the plot and the narrative throughline holds up pretty well and the major set pieces are pretty great.
I loved the emotional moment when Aki dies. I get that some people find her superfluous but I disagree...her passing adds an emotional element that is pretty welcome and shows some genuine warmth from Bond.
If Amazon is going to indeed do some crossover streaming shows, one surrounding Tiger Tanaka might be pretty great.
Ranking:
FRWL
DN
YOLT
TB
GF
I think the plan is for OHMSS tonight. I can say with confidence that that will slide into my number 1 slot.
It's not just Bond's 'seduction' of Solitaire via card trickery, it's Moore's unctuous performance, it's often just awful to watch. He isn't quite a movie star in this, nor in the next one, in fact in both his first two films he comes across as unsympathetic, the difference between a bounder and a cad, a b@stard and a sh1t. In Moore's defence, in The Saint and The Persuaders his characters get a bit more of a rapport or relationship going with the co-stars, obviously Tony Curtis in the second one but even in The Saint he is bounding off somebody whereas you don't get those in his first two Bonds so much, he's required to 'carry' the film by himself and he doesn't have that standalone movie star quality. For the first half of each film he doesn't have a relationship to speak of with Mr Big or Scaramanga, or with the women in the films either. This was resolved in the other movies somehow, there is an ongoing rapport even with Jaws.
Some of the racial stuff... when we first see Strutter we assume he's a villain because he's a black guy who is spying on Bond. Okay, he isn't, but then is he liaising with the black woman in the voodoo shop who is also on walkie talkie. We're led to believe that. Are the shoeshiners with walkie talkies working for the CIA or Mr Big. We assume for Big at first, but it doesn't feel clear latterly. Why is Strutter tailing Bond incognito? Bond is only doing what Leiter said. And why is Bond just swanning in to the Fillet of Soul when one of them tried to kill him, don't they have police in that country? I suppose it's Bond.
Strutter's death is a rare one because it takes place off screen and we never see him dead, there's no reference to his demise.
As with Dr No, it's a rare case when assassin's or bad guys don't get their comeuppance, though the three blind mice were almost certainly supposed to be driving the hearse that plunges to its fiery doom. In Moore's debut, we see no justice delivered to the Penfold character with the knife in the pre-credits, nor the ghouls who killed Baines, nor necessarily Baron Samedi, and Big's death is so preposterous it almost doesn't count, and we don't see Bond casually shoot the black henchmen in Big's lair to make his escape, again, to avoid sensitivities one supposes.
Why is Bond given the Queen of Cups to denote Rosie Carver is a deceitful woman? Who benefits? If she's working for Big, why would they tip Bond off? Who did tip him off? Or are they just trying to freak him out? Come to think of it, why are they trying to freak Bond and Rosie out by leaving voodoo emblems in his bedroom? Who benefits, given she's working for them?
Bond and Solitaire just amble into the village and get on a bus. Why don't the 'cops' just shoot them, that's what they're meant to do. Perhaps the order hadn't quite come through yet.
That cop who tries to set up the river block is of course the same one from the Las Vegas chase in Diamonds... 'I've got you now...'
Why does Bond opt to descend into Big's lair with dead weight Solitaire, instead of making his retreat? Cos he's Bond, I guess. What happens to all the henchmen once Big is killed? Do they decide to take the evening off?
Still, generally enjoyable after all these decades and a great soundtrack - oh, George Martin has another nod to Dr No, as like Monty Norman he utilises the Bond theme or something to do that 'crash, crash, crash!' instrumental to climax an action scene, in Norman's case with the killing of the tarantula and in Martin's case, the climax of the assassination attempt when Bond arrives in New York.
We have LALD on deck for tonight or tomorrow! I suspect our opinions align.
In the meantime, we continued with the franchise rewatch over the weekend.
OHMSS:
Still the one perfect Bond film, in my opinion. There isn't a thing about it that I'd change, even Lazenby. To that end, Lazenby gets better and better each time I watch the film. He only has a couple of duff moments where I wish he'd gotten another take or another chance to ADR a line better. Everything else is absolutely first rate...Best plot, best of the Blofeld actors (Telly Savalas), and best Bond girl (Diana Rigg). Also possibly my favorite of the Aston Martin cars with the DBS (it's tied with the V8 Vantage from TLD). Great John Barry score too. Love it to death.
DAF:
While it's still my least favorite of the Connery Bond films, last night's viewing may have been the 'best' that it's played for me. Connery casually walking through 90% of the film for a paycheck was surprising endearing this time. The overt silliness also played better this time. My opinion of Tiffany Case (Jill St. John) also went up a few notches. Note: Shane Rimmer's second appearance in a Bond film!!!
Current ranking:
OHMSS
FRWL
DN
YOLT
TB
GF
DAF
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 31,082Chief of Staff
OHMSS:
Still the one perfect Bond film, in my opinion. There isn't a thing about it that I'd change, even Lazenby. To that end, Lazenby gets better and better each time I watch the film. He only has a couple of duff moments where I wish he'd gotten another take or another chance to ADR a line better. Everything else is absolutely first rate...Best plot, best of the Blofeld actors (Telly Savalas), and best Bond girl (Diana Rigg). Also possibly my favorite of the Aston Martin cars with the DBS (it's tied with the V8 Vantage from TLD). Great John Barry score too. Love it to death.
Very difficult to argue with a single word of that…although I would like to change the Augsburg/St Anna Kirche mistake, it just rankles…nice to see Lazenby get some love 😊
I've long championed Lazenby. He's unjustly taken a pounding for his work in OHMSS for the simple fact that 'he wasn't Connery'. It's a tragedy that he got such bad, bad managerial advice and didn't continue on with the franchise for at least 3 more films.
Also, I think Lazenby was the best fighter of all of the Bond actors. His physicality and just overall thuggish presence was palpable.
Another observation on Connery: YOLT and DAF came out four years apart. While that's four years in real time, that's something like 12 years in Connery time...I'm not sure what happened in those four years but one thing is for sure, he didn't take any sort of youth elixir. The same thing happened with Daniel Craig in between QOS and SF.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 31,082Chief of Staff
I’m of the opinion that OHMSS works because Connery is not in it…👀
Can’t argue about him being the best (looking ) fighter either…something to which Yuri Borienko would attest 😁
Agree on all these points. The perfect Bond movie. Lazenby was criminally underrated. The Bond movie by which all others will be judged…and found wanting.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
Where our viewing of DAF was perhaps our 'best' experience of seeing that film, this viewing of LALD was probably our 'worst'. All of the complaints that were noted above by Napoleon Plural are pretty spot on, but the most egregious issue was with boredom. There's just zero oomph to most of the proceedings, and the elements that do work...like the boat chase...lack some serious snap.
I think that having Lazenby in here would have worked pretty great. A plot like this (being a riff on the 70s Blacksploitation cinema) would have benefitted from having a thug-like Bond going through the plot and generally being the equal of all of the bad guys physically. Instead, you've got Moore playing a fish out of water who comes off as arrogant and completely out of his depth.
That said, there's still plenty to like here. Tee Hee stands out as a great henchman with flair and I wish he'd gotten more screentime. I like Rosie Carver as well...she's a cool concept and the actress makes the character work in a way that's unique to the other Bond gals. Yaphet Kotto is always great, even if his character is completely underwritten. He's just a charisma machine.
Anyways, my rankings:
OHMSS
FRWL
DN
YOLT
TB
GF
DAF
LALD
edted to add: actually the arrogance factor of Moore's Bond in this film is a major turnoff that was quite noticeable this time around. Connery and Lazenby didn't have this in their portrayals whereas Moore's version is definitely arrogant here. I'll need to see if that's present in the following films (it may be in TMWTGG but I don't think it's in the rest).
The Man With The Golden Gun is on ITV4 at 8pm tomorrow (Wed) though you may prefer the DVD - not sure it's film big on TV edits though.
One nod in LALD's favour is that Jane Seymour is a very memorable Bond girl - not saying she's that great, but the character is different. It's also unique in that it has the voodoo theme and goes where others don't go. Might be good as a double bill with Mickey Rourke's Angel Heart. It has breakthrough action via the speedboat chase but here is where the low-key ones hold their own because those out-there stunts obviously aren't so groundbreaking decades down the line, whereas the plodders arguably seem less plodding.
Watched YOLT yesterday and really enjoyed it, still love Japan and how it's all filmed/portrayed, Tiger and Aki, the initial espionage set-ups and even though he's really checked out, Connery remains enjoyable to watch.
I actually find the special effects quite fascinating, the only thing to let it all down is the stock footage which is just lazy.
I fast forwarded through Little Nellie. What a waste of time.
I know this one is generally regarded as being one of the worst entries in the franchise and I understand why people take issue with it. It definitely has some issues with Moore playing it 'Connery style' in many sequences, the slide whistle cramps a great stunt, and J.W. Pepper is not necessary. I get all that. I still really like this one.
Last night's viewing was a blast. While Moore still hasn't found his groove in the role, he's much more assured here and the narrative actually gives him stuff to do instead of just 'wandering around Harlem' like he did in LALD. Christopher Lee is great and plays the role with just the right air of arrogance and professionalism. While the whole Solex plot feels tacked on to give the movie more of a spy edge and is perhaps not needed, it doesn't hinder things too much. My only real complaint with that subplot is that the film needs an additional 10 minutes after Lee's death to resolve it, making it all feel like an extended epilogue.
Whatever. As I said, I've always gone against the consensus on this one and kinda liked it. I still do.
^ TMWTGG seems to be having a bit of a mid-tier renascence.
The movie is helped by two very good performances by Lee and Moore. There's a level of intrigue to the film that is perhaps missing from a few others. It's also quite funny outside of the silly bits with a well written script full of smart quips.
Holds a place in my heart as it was the first ever Bond film I saw on very late at night when I shouldn't have been watching TV as a young fella.
Well, I am not a fan of TMWGG - only in respect of being a Bond Fan, I guess - but I do enjoy Moore's take on Bond in this one. The general concensus, and even from him, was that trying to play it 'Connery Style' doesn't work for Sir Roger. However, I beg to differ. I recently did a whole rewatch of The Saint and in certain episodes, esp the early black and white adventures, Moore as Templar is often required to be ruthless, objectionable, savvy, indelicate, cutthroat, plain mean and nasty to get to the bottom of a knotty narrative. Moore is very effective in those episdoes, more so perhaps than in ones where his humour and gallantry take over. As The Saint progressed into colour many of the episodes ventured towards silliness [not all, just some] and Moore's interpretation of Templar evolves into a charlatan of what he'd previously performed. It is rather the same with Bond. Moore didn't do much in LALD to stamp his mark on the character; humour is evident and there's a suave, almost silkiness to his seductions and killings that we don't see with Connery or Lazenby; he displays an off-hand relationship with M, much how Templar does with Inspector Teal. So, this is very much like The technicolor Saint. Not so in TMWTGG, which is much more The monochrome Saint and we see that ruthlessness penetrating the surface veneer. Given the good V bad scenario of the Bond V Scaramanga relationship, which is kind of like two gunslingers from a spaghetti western, Moore needs to deliver a performance like this. Lee on his own isn't threatening enough - although he is certainly believable as a killer - what makes him impressive is that Moore's OO7 treats Scaramanga with respect and contempt as well as with a dose of fear and loathing. Tracking down the killer of another OO feels like a revenge mission of sorts for Bond and if it starts off jokey in Beirut, Bond becomes deadly serious in Hong Kong. The missteps in the movie are not due to Moore's performance which marries drama and humour to equal effect; he may overstep the mark a little with JW Pepper and the whole karate escape sequence is unfortunate, but I consider him to be much better here than in most of his output. TSWLM over shadows it by being the consumate Moore vehicle, but Moore in TMWTGG compares very favourably to Moore in FYEO.
Comments
@Marker briefly said he loved his rewatch of OHMSS and seeing it was on Boxing Day morning on telly, I caught it but can't share his love. For a happier review from some years back, here's the time I caught it at the Prince Charles cinema.
https://www.ajb007.co.uk/discussion/49302/last-bond-movie-you-watched/p30
It repays undivided attention on the big screen but I don't enjoy it on telly. With the best will in the world, I found it boring and switched off at the nadir, when Bond talks to Draco in his office about Tracy, it's dead in the water. I think they knew that scene was duff and tried to edit it to bits so it makes even less sense and smother Barry's music on it.
Early locations are dull imo, I'd prefer it if they stuck to Marseilles and the South of France as in the book as I think it has a seedy cinematic glamour. Does it specify it's Portugal in the film? Maybe they do in the pre-credits with M and Q, but... Marseilles et al is a place where interesting and bad things might happen but Lisbon has the aura of tax haven where people go not to make money but to accrue it, to see it build interest and the same goes for Berne later, of course. It all seems so middle-aged and unsexy and while I've gone to Piz Gloria after seeing this, I've never had any desire to go to Lisbon. It has no on-screen buzz and the film just doesn't interest me despite the sporadic fist fights, the sexual charge that we should see between Bond and Tracey as she resists him and messes him around just isn't there on the telly. The film has that awful boring feel of a lot of late 60s movies, there isn't the happy expectancy of the earlier Bonds, the flirtatiousness. There is also something ill-inducing about it - seeing it aged 8 on the telly I was indeed off sick for a fortnight afterwards. Even the Barry music in Piz Gloria, it's a bit odd.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I watched Spy last night. I had forgotten how quiet the film is and how dry the humour is compared with some of Moore's other outings.
8. SF 9. NTTD 10. AVtaK 11. TMwtGG 12. LtK 13. TSWLM 14. TND
15. GF 16. MR 17. YOLT 18. LaLD 19. SP 20. DAD 21. TWiNE
22. DN 23. TB 24. QoS 25. DaF
From Russia With Love on ITV4
I hadn't intended to sit down and watch this but I was accompanied by my sister who was a bit merry with wine so that made it chirpier. She scorned the 'idiot' Tatiana, it's true, she does have an unsympathetic part in many ways, and sympathised with Rosa Klebb 'she's only trying to do her job, it's not her fault some bloke messed it up, and she's trying to put it right in the final scene. My hairdresser Foo once sent me out with a haircut like that...' and so on.
She came up with two excellent observations - when Bond checks out Red Grant's attache case in Grant's absence, to see he is the real deal, he makes sure to open it in the special way Q instructs, assuming that he's been issued with the same kit. Though hand on, wouldn't that imply that Grant also knew about the attache case trick? Hmm, maybe I'll have to check that again. [Edit: Or is Bond checking the case of his intended replacement, the case Grant has nicked? If so, isn't it odd that Grant himself never opens the case wrongly? He could appear in the dining car with white powder all over him, looking sheepish: 'Sorry old man, forgot about Q's tricky attache case, guess I made a fool of myself' to explain it.]
Secondly, Grant refers to Bond as 'old man' which seems to be borrowed from The Great Gatsby, where Gatsby gives away his non-Ivy League lineage by calling everyone 'old sport' which was seen as a bit much.
FRWL is dialogue heavy and one of the better ones for Gogglebox comments Going back to Tatiana, it was said they had a body double for the shot of the legs via Kerim Bey's periscope, because the actress doesn't really walk very well at all, & you can see they keep cutting away when she is seen to walk, such as the approach to Klebb's office.
Also, isn't the reason the third Siamese fighting fish stays apart from the other two is the sheet of glass between them?
Roger Moore 1927-2017
A fair bit of Thunderball, in some ways its first half is similar to From Russia With Love in that there's lots of stuff you can have fun observing - but it's different stuff, it's quite dense but it's the oddball, what-the-f?? stuff I mentioned when I saw it at the Prince Charles cinema a couple of years ago, whereas FRWL is mostly knowingly funny.
Like, he's in his Aston being pursued by a black gangster's car which begins shooting (it's Lippe) and we see him about to erect his bullet proof shield, as seen in the pre-credits. But he then doesn't do it, he waits. Like, erm, you wouldn't would you, it would be bang, it's up! Not patiently wait for Lippe to have another pop at him.
Then Bond just drives on after the crash when he could chase after the motorcycle assassin and find out what's what.
He never seems to interrogate anyone, like 'the fish he's throwing back in the sea'. Also, after dining with Domino we see Leiter standing just 10 feet or so behind Bond. We don't know who he is yet, it's a new actor, but surely Bond would notice? Or was there a scene cut?
They have to do all sorts of things to make a pretty dull spy movie more interesting, it gets convoluted.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
In another thread I've suggested that a scene was cut (for pacing?) where Bond/Leiter/Pinder/Paula meet, hence the obviously dubbed in lines later.
Hi all,read an online pole ( which can be subjective) apparently these films were voted the best top 5 JB films,myself though I would have had Thunderball in the list, anyway I'm watching my way through the listed films what do you think of the list.
1,Gold finger
2,from Russia with love
3,Dr No
4, Casino Royale
5, Skyfall
3 Connery films and 2 Craig's - you don't like the other Bond actors or you don't like their movies?
Saw first bit of Diamonds are Forever before turning over to another gem-based film, The Pink Panther Strikes Back.
My sister noticed that at the Slumber Crematorium they have Tiffany lampshades, a nod to Tiffany Case presumably. Also, Slumber's line 'Ashes to ashes,' to which Bond replies 'Dust to Dust' is really a Wint and Kidd type line, but perhaps they couldn't find a way to give it to them.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I just watched SPECTRE & Quantum Of Solace. As always, great fun.
Also, I just received this toy from a seller in The Netherlands!
#1.TLD 2.LTK 3.TND 4.GF 5.YOLT 6.DAF 7.TMWTGG 8.TWINE 9.DN 10.SP
The last time my wife and I watched the entire franchise was before NTTD came out. We felt it was time to do another rewatch, especially with the Amazon purchase. We started on DR. NO on Saturday.
I've always 'liked' this film and appreciated just how well it kicks things off for the franchise, and I've always admired just how fully formed Connery is as Bond from the beginning. For some reason, this viewing really clicked for me and I now place it much higher in the overall franchise rating. I now put it as the second best Connery Bond film (after FRWL) with the caveat that my full rewatch might make me reevaluate the other films. Budget and a few pacing issues aside, this is pretty much flawless, and all of my perceived flaws are rectified in the superb FRWL. DN walks so that FRWL can run.
I also appreciate just how raw and serious Bond is in both DN and FRWL. There's no winking at the camera or playing things strictly for laughs, like in GF onwards. I can now really see and acknowledge the formula established here that would be reintroduced with the first two Craig era films.
We did FRWL and GF last night, back to back.
FRWL holds up beautifully as a strong 'spycraft' film. It's wonderfully executed, well paced, and funny when it needs to be without being forced. There's nothing in there that feels like a meta wink to the audience.
GF did not hold up beautifully, especially immediately following FRWL. All of the serious spycraft is jettisoned in favor of fantasy. There are a lot of fun elements in there but the overall feeling of plausibility is completely absent. It's still a 'good' film but it's a definite tonal change from what came before.
Current ranking:
Well, generally I'd advise Dr No and FRWL as a double bill, and I always found that after those GF then falls down a bit whereas if you watch it as a standalone it works better. I'd have GF and TB as a double bill instead, they occupy the same universe.
At the cinema I'd have FRWL and OHMSS as a double bill given they occupy the same sort of universe in terms of credibility, Bond is young in both and it makes more sense in terms of Bond meeting Blofeld for the first time.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
OHMSS is my favorite Bond film, just ahead of FRWL and TSWLM. At least, that's my current ranking...we'll see how this franchise rewatch shakes out. The good news is that my wife is incredibly enthusiastic about this rewatch and is already hounding me about which one we're watching tonight ('it's THUNDERBALL, dear').
Well, we did TB. It played pretty great for both of us last night and even the underwater stuff...which normally feels unending...played nicely.
A few things I noticed this time around:
Regardless, we had fun with it.
Ranking:
The editing for TB is all over the shop. We'll, it isn't truly awful, but Oeter Hunt recognised the inconsistencies even as he cut and pasted away in the edit suite. His theory runs that if you maintain a high pace with plenty of action to distract an audience, they won't notice the flaws in the plot and the back-to-front sections of the narrative.
That worked for the days of cinema but with TV, home ownership and streaming, it doesn't quite hold up. I won't list all the problems, but you listed two of tge obvious ones.
Another of TB problems is the production team's want to create a huge event film, with more stunts, action, humour, exotica etc than before. Hence Paula was invented as an extra slice of victim eyecanďy. IMO her role us completely unnecessary. Bond has his suspicions about Largo already and when he tours Palmyra, he should be using his Q branch watch to pick up radiation levels, perhaps off a stray diving mask. Bond decides to raid the estate during the Junkanoo. He doesn't find the bombs obviously, but all the recovery gear, solidifying his suspicion about the Disco Volante's underwater hatch. When Bobd returns to his hotel, Fiona waits and the action continues as normal. Any of Paula's earlier scenes and dialogues can then be taken by Pinder, he is after all the SIS head man I the Bahamas.
Gosh. What a lot of errors in that post. I think I need a decent edit 😄
We did YOLT two nights ago. There are a few handwave 'because movie' moments in it but nothing as egregious as in TB. Overall, the plot and the narrative throughline holds up pretty well and the major set pieces are pretty great.
I loved the emotional moment when Aki dies. I get that some people find her superfluous but I disagree...her passing adds an emotional element that is pretty welcome and shows some genuine warmth from Bond.
If Amazon is going to indeed do some crossover streaming shows, one surrounding Tiger Tanaka might be pretty great.
Ranking:
I think the plan is for OHMSS tonight. I can say with confidence that that will slide into my number 1 slot.
The increasingly problematic Live And Let Die.
It's not just Bond's 'seduction' of Solitaire via card trickery, it's Moore's unctuous performance, it's often just awful to watch. He isn't quite a movie star in this, nor in the next one, in fact in both his first two films he comes across as unsympathetic, the difference between a bounder and a cad, a b@stard and a sh1t. In Moore's defence, in The Saint and The Persuaders his characters get a bit more of a rapport or relationship going with the co-stars, obviously Tony Curtis in the second one but even in The Saint he is bounding off somebody whereas you don't get those in his first two Bonds so much, he's required to 'carry' the film by himself and he doesn't have that standalone movie star quality. For the first half of each film he doesn't have a relationship to speak of with Mr Big or Scaramanga, or with the women in the films either. This was resolved in the other movies somehow, there is an ongoing rapport even with Jaws.
Some of the racial stuff... when we first see Strutter we assume he's a villain because he's a black guy who is spying on Bond. Okay, he isn't, but then is he liaising with the black woman in the voodoo shop who is also on walkie talkie. We're led to believe that. Are the shoeshiners with walkie talkies working for the CIA or Mr Big. We assume for Big at first, but it doesn't feel clear latterly. Why is Strutter tailing Bond incognito? Bond is only doing what Leiter said. And why is Bond just swanning in to the Fillet of Soul when one of them tried to kill him, don't they have police in that country? I suppose it's Bond.
Strutter's death is a rare one because it takes place off screen and we never see him dead, there's no reference to his demise.
As with Dr No, it's a rare case when assassin's or bad guys don't get their comeuppance, though the three blind mice were almost certainly supposed to be driving the hearse that plunges to its fiery doom. In Moore's debut, we see no justice delivered to the Penfold character with the knife in the pre-credits, nor the ghouls who killed Baines, nor necessarily Baron Samedi, and Big's death is so preposterous it almost doesn't count, and we don't see Bond casually shoot the black henchmen in Big's lair to make his escape, again, to avoid sensitivities one supposes.
Why is Bond given the Queen of Cups to denote Rosie Carver is a deceitful woman? Who benefits? If she's working for Big, why would they tip Bond off? Who did tip him off? Or are they just trying to freak him out? Come to think of it, why are they trying to freak Bond and Rosie out by leaving voodoo emblems in his bedroom? Who benefits, given she's working for them?
Bond and Solitaire just amble into the village and get on a bus. Why don't the 'cops' just shoot them, that's what they're meant to do. Perhaps the order hadn't quite come through yet.
That cop who tries to set up the river block is of course the same one from the Las Vegas chase in Diamonds... 'I've got you now...'
Why does Bond opt to descend into Big's lair with dead weight Solitaire, instead of making his retreat? Cos he's Bond, I guess. What happens to all the henchmen once Big is killed? Do they decide to take the evening off?
Still, generally enjoyable after all these decades and a great soundtrack - oh, George Martin has another nod to Dr No, as like Monty Norman he utilises the Bond theme or something to do that 'crash, crash, crash!' instrumental to climax an action scene, in Norman's case with the killing of the tarantula and in Martin's case, the climax of the assassination attempt when Bond arrives in New York.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
We have LALD on deck for tonight or tomorrow! I suspect our opinions align.
In the meantime, we continued with the franchise rewatch over the weekend.
OHMSS:
Still the one perfect Bond film, in my opinion. There isn't a thing about it that I'd change, even Lazenby. To that end, Lazenby gets better and better each time I watch the film. He only has a couple of duff moments where I wish he'd gotten another take or another chance to ADR a line better. Everything else is absolutely first rate...Best plot, best of the Blofeld actors (Telly Savalas), and best Bond girl (Diana Rigg). Also possibly my favorite of the Aston Martin cars with the DBS (it's tied with the V8 Vantage from TLD). Great John Barry score too. Love it to death.
DAF:
While it's still my least favorite of the Connery Bond films, last night's viewing may have been the 'best' that it's played for me. Connery casually walking through 90% of the film for a paycheck was surprising endearing this time. The overt silliness also played better this time. My opinion of Tiffany Case (Jill St. John) also went up a few notches. Note: Shane Rimmer's second appearance in a Bond film!!!
Current ranking:
OHMSS:
Still the one perfect Bond film, in my opinion. There isn't a thing about it that I'd change, even Lazenby. To that end, Lazenby gets better and better each time I watch the film. He only has a couple of duff moments where I wish he'd gotten another take or another chance to ADR a line better. Everything else is absolutely first rate...Best plot, best of the Blofeld actors (Telly Savalas), and best Bond girl (Diana Rigg). Also possibly my favorite of the Aston Martin cars with the DBS (it's tied with the V8 Vantage from TLD). Great John Barry score too. Love it to death.
Very difficult to argue with a single word of that…although I would like to change the Augsburg/St Anna Kirche mistake, it just rankles…nice to see Lazenby get some love 😊
I've long championed Lazenby. He's unjustly taken a pounding for his work in OHMSS for the simple fact that 'he wasn't Connery'. It's a tragedy that he got such bad, bad managerial advice and didn't continue on with the franchise for at least 3 more films.
Also, I think Lazenby was the best fighter of all of the Bond actors. His physicality and just overall thuggish presence was palpable.
Another observation on Connery: YOLT and DAF came out four years apart. While that's four years in real time, that's something like 12 years in Connery time...I'm not sure what happened in those four years but one thing is for sure, he didn't take any sort of youth elixir. The same thing happened with Daniel Craig in between QOS and SF.
I’m of the opinion that OHMSS works because Connery is not in it…👀
Can’t argue about him being the best (looking ) fighter either…something to which Yuri Borienko would attest 😁
Agree on all these points. The perfect Bond movie. Lazenby was criminally underrated. The Bond movie by which all others will be judged…and found wanting.
So, we did LALD.
Where our viewing of DAF was perhaps our 'best' experience of seeing that film, this viewing of LALD was probably our 'worst'. All of the complaints that were noted above by Napoleon Plural are pretty spot on, but the most egregious issue was with boredom. There's just zero oomph to most of the proceedings, and the elements that do work...like the boat chase...lack some serious snap.
I think that having Lazenby in here would have worked pretty great. A plot like this (being a riff on the 70s Blacksploitation cinema) would have benefitted from having a thug-like Bond going through the plot and generally being the equal of all of the bad guys physically. Instead, you've got Moore playing a fish out of water who comes off as arrogant and completely out of his depth.
That said, there's still plenty to like here. Tee Hee stands out as a great henchman with flair and I wish he'd gotten more screentime. I like Rosie Carver as well...she's a cool concept and the actress makes the character work in a way that's unique to the other Bond gals. Yaphet Kotto is always great, even if his character is completely underwritten. He's just a charisma machine.
Anyways, my rankings:
edted to add: actually the arrogance factor of Moore's Bond in this film is a major turnoff that was quite noticeable this time around. Connery and Lazenby didn't have this in their portrayals whereas Moore's version is definitely arrogant here. I'll need to see if that's present in the following films (it may be in TMWTGG but I don't think it's in the rest).
The Man With The Golden Gun is on ITV4 at 8pm tomorrow (Wed) though you may prefer the DVD - not sure it's film big on TV edits though.
One nod in LALD's favour is that Jane Seymour is a very memorable Bond girl - not saying she's that great, but the character is different. It's also unique in that it has the voodoo theme and goes where others don't go. Might be good as a double bill with Mickey Rourke's Angel Heart. It has breakthrough action via the speedboat chase but here is where the low-key ones hold their own because those out-there stunts obviously aren't so groundbreaking decades down the line, whereas the plodders arguably seem less plodding.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Jane Seymour is indeed rather memorable. I rather liked her turn in SINBAD AND THE EYE OF THE TIGER a few years later as well.
Watched YOLT yesterday and really enjoyed it, still love Japan and how it's all filmed/portrayed, Tiger and Aki, the initial espionage set-ups and even though he's really checked out, Connery remains enjoyable to watch.
I actually find the special effects quite fascinating, the only thing to let it all down is the stock footage which is just lazy.
I fast forwarded through Little Nellie. What a waste of time.
"Better make that two."
TMWTGG
I know this one is generally regarded as being one of the worst entries in the franchise and I understand why people take issue with it. It definitely has some issues with Moore playing it 'Connery style' in many sequences, the slide whistle cramps a great stunt, and J.W. Pepper is not necessary. I get all that. I still really like this one.
Last night's viewing was a blast. While Moore still hasn't found his groove in the role, he's much more assured here and the narrative actually gives him stuff to do instead of just 'wandering around Harlem' like he did in LALD. Christopher Lee is great and plays the role with just the right air of arrogance and professionalism. While the whole Solex plot feels tacked on to give the movie more of a spy edge and is perhaps not needed, it doesn't hinder things too much. My only real complaint with that subplot is that the film needs an additional 10 minutes after Lee's death to resolve it, making it all feel like an extended epilogue.
Whatever. As I said, I've always gone against the consensus on this one and kinda liked it. I still do.
Current rankings:
^ TMWTGG seems to be having a bit of a mid-tier renascence.
The movie is helped by two very good performances by Lee and Moore. There's a level of intrigue to the film that is perhaps missing from a few others. It's also quite funny outside of the silly bits with a well written script full of smart quips.
Holds a place in my heart as it was the first ever Bond film I saw on very late at night when I shouldn't have been watching TV as a young fella.
"Better make that two."
Well, I am not a fan of TMWGG - only in respect of being a Bond Fan, I guess - but I do enjoy Moore's take on Bond in this one. The general concensus, and even from him, was that trying to play it 'Connery Style' doesn't work for Sir Roger. However, I beg to differ. I recently did a whole rewatch of The Saint and in certain episodes, esp the early black and white adventures, Moore as Templar is often required to be ruthless, objectionable, savvy, indelicate, cutthroat, plain mean and nasty to get to the bottom of a knotty narrative. Moore is very effective in those episdoes, more so perhaps than in ones where his humour and gallantry take over. As The Saint progressed into colour many of the episodes ventured towards silliness [not all, just some] and Moore's interpretation of Templar evolves into a charlatan of what he'd previously performed. It is rather the same with Bond. Moore didn't do much in LALD to stamp his mark on the character; humour is evident and there's a suave, almost silkiness to his seductions and killings that we don't see with Connery or Lazenby; he displays an off-hand relationship with M, much how Templar does with Inspector Teal. So, this is very much like The technicolor Saint. Not so in TMWTGG, which is much more The monochrome Saint and we see that ruthlessness penetrating the surface veneer. Given the good V bad scenario of the Bond V Scaramanga relationship, which is kind of like two gunslingers from a spaghetti western, Moore needs to deliver a performance like this. Lee on his own isn't threatening enough - although he is certainly believable as a killer - what makes him impressive is that Moore's OO7 treats Scaramanga with respect and contempt as well as with a dose of fear and loathing. Tracking down the killer of another OO feels like a revenge mission of sorts for Bond and if it starts off jokey in Beirut, Bond becomes deadly serious in Hong Kong. The missteps in the movie are not due to Moore's performance which marries drama and humour to equal effect; he may overstep the mark a little with JW Pepper and the whole karate escape sequence is unfortunate, but I consider him to be much better here than in most of his output. TSWLM over shadows it by being the consumate Moore vehicle, but Moore in TMWTGG compares very favourably to Moore in FYEO.