A tale of three Walthers!

ppw3o6rppw3o6r Great BritainPosts: 2,136MI6 Agent

A while back a heated debate was sparked where a member named Mr Mick was convinced he owned a first generation Walther P99 which had a flat front edge to the trigger guard which made it a third generation which he did not want to accept even after I had posted images of Pierce Brosnan's second generation pistol (SN:V1680) which he had used on Tomorrow Never DiesThe World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day and Daniel Craig had used on Tomb Raider. At the time I explained that the first generation was almost identical in appearance to the Umarex PAK (blank fire) Walther P99. It's taken a few years but I've finally sourced a pre-Bond first generation 9mm Walther P99 (SN: V1635), 45 units off the production line before Brosnan's piece.

Pierce Brosnan's three movies used V1680 second generation Walther P99

Pierce Brosnan's two movies used 011049 third generation Walther P99 (his principal pistol on TWINE)

A similar third generation P99 was used by Daniel Craig's Bond in 2006's Casino Royale

Comments

  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 6,996MI6 Agent
    edited October 29

    I’m still looking. I’ve all but given up. I know Womble had at least two back in 1997 but they’ve never surfaced for resale since 😕. He had them at the same time he got the two Brosnan spec PPKs in. At least I managed to snag one of those.

    Cracking find Sir Donkey of bang bang brilliance.

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  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,402Chief of Staff

    Lovely find, Donk 🍸

    YNWA 97
  • danjaq_0ffdanjaq_0ff The SwampsPosts: 7,069MI6 Agent

    Nice :)

  • Bondy007Bondy007 Posts: 11MI6 Agent

    Preface: I'm new to the handgun world. Apologies for that, I'm trying to learn.


    I was under the impression that Craig used a Gen I P99. How do we (more specifically, what do I look for) know that he used a Gen III P99?

    "Well, I like to do some things the old-fashioned way."

  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 6,996MI6 Agent
    edited November 23

    @Bondy007 The gun you are thinking of as the Gen one was actually a PAK blank version which Craig uses the most. The P99 he picks up in the Aston was a practical Gen 3. The only other times you see him use a practical was in the pre titles when he shoots Dryden, and post titles when he shoots Mollaka. Even the rubber stunts are cast off the PAK versions

    The P99 is a rarity amongst gun designs, as the PAK version was designed alongside the practical and not afterwards like most PAK pistols. This was done to create a strong and realistic training platform and why you see the PAK even to this day, almost 100% a clone of the Gen 1 P99 with the same external functions and operating system as the live fire version. In fact I can’t think of another specific blank variant pistol ever made that is used in film and TV so extensively over its live fire version as the PAK P99. Such is the visual accuracy and reliability.

    Heres the PAK and suppressor from the Venice shoot out, showing the earlier hooked guard and open rail which the Gen 1also has. The front sight is very prominent and distinctively triangular too.

    And from another collection. Here’s the practical from the DBS , photo courtesy of Donk, showing the closed rail and flatter trigger guard of the later gens. The front sight being a little lower and less shark like in profile.


    As Donk says in his first post. Neither Craig or Brosnan used a Gen1 P99. They are very very rare.

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  • CajunCajun Posts: 384MI6 Agent

    Great information here.

    I think some of the confusion for regular “gun guys” (versus actual Walther gurus) regarding P99s is at least in the US, pre-universal rail models are most commonly referred to as the Gen 1 design.

    You’ll find this generalization nearly everywhere online. Wikipedia’s Walther P99 page (yes I know, the user-modified site) makes my point.

    I edit, therefore I am.
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 6,996MI6 Agent
    edited November 23

    This is true. A lot of people just lump this general configuration as Gen 1…


    And this as Gen 2.


    It’s marginally less annoying as people calling magazines, clips 🤬😂

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  • CajunCajun Posts: 384MI6 Agent
    edited November 23

    Yep. I’ll admit I wasn’t aware of the generational subsets prior to membership here.

    When someone claiming to know firearms calls a magazine a clip, it tells you everything you need to know. 🥸

    I edit, therefore I am.
  • Bondy007Bondy007 Posts: 11MI6 Agent

    Very interesting! Thank you for the detailed response, @Asp9mm !

    So, being in the US, if I were to try and find the same type of live-fire P99 for EDC/CC used by Craig for myself, I should be looking for a Gen III P99?

    "Well, I like to do some things the old-fashioned way."

  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 6,996MI6 Agent
    edited November 24

    Yes. With the flatter trigger guard. The Aston P99 had a laser etched logo. And the Prague and Madagascar live fire was a stamped logo if I remember correctly. Donk will confirm. So either version will be fine. And the Gen 3 is the more commonly available version too. So that’s a bonus.


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  • Bondy007Bondy007 Posts: 11MI6 Agent


    Thank you so much for this information! I've recently joined the "Walther Forums" in the hopes of finding one and perhaps the correct PPK from QoS/SF/SP. (Er...you wouldn't happen to know that as well, would you? 😅)

    "Well, I like to do some things the old-fashioned way."

  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 6,996MI6 Agent

    They used all sorts of different variants of PPK. 100% a 1962 model in the London scenes of SKYFALL All 7.65mm ULM West Germany manufactured though. With black grips.

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  • ppw3o6rppw3o6r Great BritainPosts: 2,136MI6 Agent
    edited November 26

    DC's hero stunt PPK (which had been cast off the practical screen weapon) from Quantum (his holster gun) which was reused on SPECTRE and had previously been used in the Casino Royale pre-titles flash-back sequence. There are a number of differences between the weapons utilized on DC's five movies however in this pistol's case it is the position of the Made in W. Germany engraving and the shape of the sights:


  • Bondy007Bondy007 Posts: 11MI6 Agent

    So, if I've brushed up on the history of the PPK correctly, the London SKYFALL PPK would be a post-war model, but the one @ppw3o6r is talking about would be a pre-war model, judging by the nose?

    "Well, I like to do some things the old-fashioned way."

  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 6,996MI6 Agent
    edited November 25

    No, they are all post WW2. In fact post 1960’s models, including ppw306r’s stunt version. The Zella made pre wars versions have a totally different muzzle profile and rear sight. Craig never uses one of these on screen.

    See the square cut muzzle and rear sight is set back on the pre war Zella models. You need a post 1960 ULM made model. Not this…


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  • Bondy007Bondy007 Posts: 11MI6 Agent

    Ah, ok, I see the difference now! Thank you!

    "Well, I like to do some things the old-fashioned way."

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