SPECTRE in the wider series........

Unknown007Unknown007 Posts: 186MI6 Agent

If it hadn't been for the Kevin McClory Situation I was wondering which of the Bond Villains from the Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan Eras would have been SPECTRE Agents? Apart from the Infamous Blofeld Cameo in For Your Eyes Only, Scaramanga definately, Drax probably, Stromberg absolutely, Zorin possibly with his plot to destroy Silicon Valley as all four had very SPECTRE-Esque intentions, as for the others the Live and Let Die Mr Big, probably not same would go for Kamal Kahn although General Orlov would come across as SPECTRE, Kristatos from FYEO and Locque definately qualify seeing as they were sort of connected to KGB/ General Gogol.

Turning to the Dalton Era, Koskov would be SPECTRE but not sure about Brad Whittaker as Americans like him wouldn't work for me although henchman Necros would definately have the SPECTRE feel about him considering the Safe House attack scene. The Licence To Kill Sanchez is one I'm not sure about would he be a SPECTRE person I'm just not sure.

In the Brosnan Era, Trevelyan is very SPECTRE seeing as he has Ourumov and (sorry about this) his Squeeze(!?) Xenia Onatopp and a very Bond Villianesque SPECTRE Hideout, oh and also the not so invincible (and forgettable -sorry!) Grishenko. Carver in Tomorrow Never Dies would probably have SPECTRE Tendancies and would Tomorrow be a very SPECTRE Newspaper, his plot to start conflict between China and other Countries would really interest SPECTRE for sure and henchmen like Stamper etc and the Stealth Boat is very SPECTRE. Renard in TWINE would be seen as heir apparent in the SPECTRE hierarchy cold, can't feel pain and with Electra King by his side and the short lived "Cigar Girl" - lovely figure and perfectly rounded - would be perfect SPECTRE material. Which leads to Die Another Day's Gustav Graves or in his pervious guise, Korean Colonel Moon along with Zao, Miranda Frost and the aptly named Mr Kill and the forgettable henchman Popov oh and being a cool customer of a Villain had his own Ice Palace - which melted.

I don't think I need to go through the Daniel Craig Era Villains as they have been discussed many times recently so this is just my opinions of what could have been had Ernst Stavro McClory not intefered with the characters and SPECTRE. Who knows what it would have been like?

Opinions please ladies and gentlemen.................

Comments

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 33,457Chief of Staff

    First thoughts-

    FYEO lends itself to a SPECTRE plot along the lines of FRWL- the British have lost a piece of technology, the ATAC, and if SPECTRE can find it first they can have a bidding war between the Russians and the Brits.

    TSWLM obviously, since it was originally written with SPECTRE in mind.

    GE with a few minor changes.

  • Shady TreeShady Tree London, UKPosts: 2,703MI6 Agent
    edited May 30

    To shift the question slightly, I'm not even sure that either OHMSS or DAF are SPECTRE stories proper. Blofeld is still commanding militia, assassins and technicians but, in OHMSS, his scheme is motivated by a private agenda to secure the terms of his own retirement and, in DAF, although his plot reverts to something more akin to SPECTRE's projects in DN/TB/YOLT, much of the film's villainy is franchised out to pre-existing criminal/ smuggling networks, such as the Vegas underworld. Blofeld exploits the techno-industrial infrastructure of a legitimate, kidnapped businessman, Whyte, who is clearly no Osato.

    In OHMSS and DAF, there are no more 'numbered' SPECTRE agents; there is no remaining sense of Blofeld chairing a disciplined executive of great criminal minds - world-class villains united by pecuniary objectives, but with extensive resources of their own already, making contributory pitches. Certainly, key player Metz wouldn't identify as a SPECTRE operative; Blofeld has duped him into thinking his DAF(t) plot is motivated by a benevolent desire to prompt global disarmament. SPECTRE isn't even name-checked in DAF.

    In the Eon series prior to the Craig re-boot and retcon, TB is the one pure SPECTRE tale; DN and FRWL are cleverly co-opted to it in advance; YOLT both simplifies and amplifies it; and anything Blofeld-related from M's Operation Bedlam onwards is (as in the novels) more to do with Blofeld's enterprises as a fugitive criminal mastermind than with SPECTRE per se.

    Later films trade on some of the more memorable features of these films. TSWLM and MR are near relations to YOLT, except that Stromberg and Drax have utopian fantasies whereas for Pleasence's Blofeld it's all about a big payday from Red China ("extortion is my business").

    The films which skirt with ensemble villainy, FRWL-style, tend to boast the more intriguing plots and character portraits. In GE, Ouromov, like Klebb, is of the Russian military but has gone over to a private criminal organisation (Janus, like SPECTRE, is a syndicate); Onatopp is clearly of the same ilk as Fiona and, particularly, Fatima Blush; when Ouromov casts a disbelieving look at Onatopp during her orgasm mid-mission, the odd dynamic between them as villains humorously brings to mind tense moments between Kronsteen and Klebb. OP and TLD also toy with ensemble criminality. FYEO's use of a mcguffin whose recovery is important to both Britain and the Russians recalls FRWL, as Barbel adds.

    Also, to my mind, though QOS is flawed, CR06 and QOS taken together 'do SPECTRE' more effectively - as "the organisation"/ Quantum - than SP 'does SPECTRE' (and better than SP does Quantum as a retconned subsidiary of SPECTRE, if that makes sense!) I like how villainy is presented in the Mr White of CR06, LeChiffre, Greene, Medrano, the duplicity between criminals and a shadowy sense of mystery about Quantum. All that is clobbered by the later SP retcon.

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  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,394MI6 Agent

    Stromberg was originally intended to be Blofeld, that one easy.

    Scaramanga is a freelancer employed by whoever can afford the one million dollar pricetag. He might have done a job for SEPCTRE (acquire the solex agitator but would not have been an agent.

    Zorin might have been a SPECTRE agent gone rogue, but I think the whole eugenics backstory requires state sponsorship. Either way, he is not a team player, he's a dangerous loony

    Actually I think most of the Glenn-era villains are tied to their realistic Soviet backstory, we could not easily just swap KGB for SPECTRE and have the story still work. That said, Rosa Klebb of course was a KGB colonel who had secretly defected to SPECTRE, so some of those rogue generals could be the same.

    For Your Eyes Only would not work quite the same if Kristatos' sponsor turned out to be Blofeld instead of Gogol. The ending would have to play out different and I would not like the film so much (I like that they dispose of Blofeld at the very start then give us this more random and banal seeming story instead).

    I'm not sure about the various western billionaire types, like Drax or Carver, they seem too full of themselves to be team players, though they engage in very Blofeld-like behaviour.


    anyway I'd love it if there were little clues in each film tying the villains to SPECTRE, just subtle enough to be found if we look for them. To this day I still watch Goldfinger for some subtle evidence he too is a SPECTRE agent

  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,992MI6 Agent
    edited May 29

    Unknown007 wrote: ".... I'm not sure about Brad Whittaker as Americans like him wouldn't work for me ...".

    Slip of the tongue, Blof ..... I mean Unknown007? 🤔

  • SadanoyamaSadanoyama Posts: 10MI6 Agent

    I agree completely on DAF's version of "SPECTRE." No mention of the name, and only Boldfeld's octopus ring giving any semblance of continuity. On the other hand, all the grunts have that tacky lightning -flash logo on their jumpsuits so there was obviously some form of rebranding.

    I wonder if the absence of a named SPECTRE in the script. was intention or oversight on the part of the film makers.

  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,394MI6 Agent
    edited June 2

    doesnt his escape sub have the SPECTRE logo painted on the side? probably from a storage facility full of leftover SPECTRE hardware, itd be more expensive to repaint it so he doesnt bother. This new diamond smuggling scam is expensive enough, and note he's squatting in somebody else's apartment and oil rig. Blofeld's basically broke by this point.

  • SadanoyamaSadanoyama Posts: 10MI6 Agent

    Point taken about Blofeld's finances being on the skids. And great spot on the Octopus customisation on the Batho-sub.

    But, out of the 60's scii-fi Bonds, i think the Willard Whyte kidnap is the most feasible gambit for Ernst to get some outer space action. If we go with WW as Howard Hughes, then Hughes was surrounded only by a very small group of Mormons, and Hughes Aviation was definitely making stuff for the Space Race. A small secretive group is much easier for Ernst to pick off, and after that, the endless obfuscation of billionaire WW's lawyers will keep everything hush-hush. This strategy is way more likely than:

    1. YOLT volcano rocket base. Built in Japan, US-allied territory. Impossible. Could have worked if it had been in mainland China, but that would have meant Connery-Bond actually having to venture into NATO-hostile territory. Which aside from whistling through Iron-Curtain Bulgaria and Yugoslavia for a few hours on the Orient Express, I don't think he ever actually did. Lazenby neither.
    2. DR.NO. Jamaica was legally a British colony when Bond was there in early 62. Can't see Julius and Ernst shipping over a nuclear reactor or a megalomaniacal fish tank without getting sussed.
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,394MI6 Agent

    I like this defense of Diamonds are Forever as the more realistic movie, as its one of the lesser loved of the original Bonds.

    really that volcano headquarters was obscenely expensive and impractical. If you had enough money to build such an evil headquarters, why waste it like that? why not just eat out at fancy restaurants every night or something else more immediately rewarding?

    simply taking over somebody else's private space program is a much more efficient way to get an evil space laser into orbit.

  • BondClothingBondClothing Posts: 343MI6 Agent

    In hindsight, the Kevin McClory situation might have been a blessing in disguise, bearing how often Eon would go to use Spectre as villains in the films. I think it would take away some of each film's individuality and make them feel more serialized.

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  • John from CorkJohn from Cork Posts: 84MI6 Agent

    I think Blofeld and Spectre belong in the 60s and should have stayed there. I think the only reason they were shoehorned into the Craig era is that Wilson and Broccoli are going to sell their shares and retire from the bond business and getting Spectre back would have been the last thing on their bucket list.

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