The Definitive Connery/Bond Dress watch ID Thread

Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent

Carrying on from the WP Wednesday thread. Let’s try and nail down exactly what this watch actually is. Gruen was pulled out of the air with no evidence and is pretty unlikely when you have a plethora of British models with the same design during that period.


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Comments

  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent

    Sweet.


    I'll just go ahead and post my findings without going into detail:


    Stills/BTS from Dr.No

    The "Tailor photo"


    Close up of what appear to be the "tailor-watch"


    Now we need to link the two watches. My theory is that the distinguished strap could be the key.


  • urhashurhash USPosts: 984MI6 Agent
    edited October 2022

    If the Gruen could be definitively ruled out with a clear side by side shot that would still be progress. Would be great to refer people to it so it can be debunked once and for all.

  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent

    To be fair, the Gruen fits the profile by looking at the face. Same dial layout and small sub-dial for the seconds hand (although the arabic numbers at 3,6 and 9 is hard to confirm).


    But looking at the watch Sean is wearing, the lugs do not match the Gruen.

  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent

    Another point of the colorized photo I posted. Allegedly it was taken in 1962, however i've seen conflicting reports as some state that it's circa 1955. I am a bit sceptical of this, as that would place Sean at the age of 25, but in the photo he looks almost the same age as in Dr.No (31)

    Regardless, we don't know if it was taken before, during or after Dr.No. So my issue with the swapping of the straps in-between photos could be invalid.

    It is entirely plausible that they (Or Sean himself) just dressed the watch up a bit with a leather strap before filming started, or the old one just got worn out.

  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent

    The problem is that there are many more high profile brands within the U.K. and Europe for the U.K. market making the same generic design with similar dials.


    Statistically any of the above brands are far more likely to be candidates than the Gruen.

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  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent

    Question: Do we know in what order Dr.No was shot?

    I know the airport scene in Jamaica was the first scene that was filmed but the rest I'm not sure about.

    Why I'm asking is because I'm trying to put together a timeline in which the scenes were shot in order to pin down when the mystery watch made it's appearance.

  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent

    As an update after some detective work:

    In the BTS shot of Sean show him wearing the dress watch he is seen in a partial suit that matches the one he is wearing on arrival to Jamaica.


    Although just in the next sequence in the 57 Bel air, he is seen prominently wearing the Submariner. Now I don't know this, but I assume the sequences were shot the same day or perhaps the day after, as they had access to both "Mr.Jones" in his outfit and the car.


    Also, later when Bond arrives at the government house he is wearing the same suit. This combined with the footage of him at Commander Strangeways residence is the last time in the film we him in that specific suit. Hence the BTS photo must have been shot on one of those occasions (unless there are some deleted footage we're not aware of).



    Given that we see the Rolex on what I assume is the first day of shooting, my guess would be that the idea of handing him the Watch was early on during production, yet we see him with the mystery watch behind the scenes in the same time frame. This could potentially support the notion that it was his personal watch and after he had shot the last segments needed, he handed back the Rolex (Bare in mind, this is speculation).

    For the rest of the film that was shot in Jamaica we see him wear the Rolex, or a watch isn't seen at all. It's not until the scene at "Le Cercle" back in London where we see him clearly with the mystery watch. Funny enough, the scene shot with Bernard Lee, Sean is seen with the Rolex, and back at Bond's apartment where he finds Sylvia, he is back with the gold watch.

  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
    edited October 2022

    They made such an effort with the rest of the wardrobe, that it seems odd they’d miss a detail like his watch. During the early sixties, it would have been such a faux pas to wear the Sub with black tie, that I can’t see Terrence Young letting that pass. So I’d say the argument for and against it being Connerys own is leaning me towards it not being Connerys, but it’s near 50/50 either way. I wonder what watch Young was wearing during this time and if it could be his.

    Im just thinking out loud at this point. It could be Connery’s, a wardrobe item, or anyone else’s for that matter. It certainly doesn’t match the watch we see Connery in after filming, so that’s another notch against that idea for me.

    It’s bloody annoying that’s for sure.

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  • urhashurhash USPosts: 984MI6 Agent

    Terence Young appears to wear a Cartier Tank as his personal watch.

  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent

    Indeed, but the BTS photo is taken before the gambling scene where he is in his Tuxedo. So somewhere they did the switch, and him wearing the gold watch rather than the Rolex in the BTS is absolutely annoying as it doesn't match the timeline. It doesn't make sense that he has the Rolex on the wrist from day one in Jamaica, another watch off set that's also never seen on screen until the production is back in London.


    Also, it would absolutely be a faux pas to wear a diver with a tux - But never the less, picture tells a different story

  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent
  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent

    Regardless, even in FRWL - Sometimes he is wearing the Rolex, sometimes the mystery watch. The only common thread I can see is the Rolex is being shown on screen when we as an audience have a somewhat good look of his wrist watch, the rest of the time it's the Mystery watch. Hence why we never had a clear look at it.

    If it was part of his wardrobe, why then not just let him wear the Rolex through out the whole film?

  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
    edited October 2022

    I have absolutely no idea. Nothing makes any sense in regards to continuity or even common sense 🤣


    Although something new to me has come out of this revived inquest…. I never twigged that he wore the Sub in the early London scenes with M. I was always looking at the weaponry.

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  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent

    He did in later years, but what was he wearing during the Sixties and filming Bond. He certainly had a Rolex Sub 6536-1 during that time.

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  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent

    Agreed 😂

    The only logical conclusion I can come to is that they didn't put much tought into what watch he was wearing if it wasn't shown on screen.

    And to be fair - They've made larger continuity errors than him not wearing a Rolex for the entirety of filming 🤷‍♂️

    Heck, the role of Walther PPK has been played by the Walther PP, FN 1910, Colt 1911 and Colt 1903 hammerless. Hence why I don't think the mystery watch was a deliberate watch choice. But I'm also partial as I'm 70% certain the watch seen on the film is the same watch we see on Connery in his off-time.

  • urhashurhash USPosts: 984MI6 Agent


    Looks to me he wears the Tank even back in the Dr. No days.

  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent

    Yup. That’s a Tank alright. So that’s another theory boshed.

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  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,745MI6 Agent

    Quite a strange shot.


    And a frustrating one


  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent

    The first one is from the scene when he hands the Sub to Quarrel so the tritium didn’t set off the Geiger counter. And that second scene I’ve watched so may times in the vain hope that the angle will be different and a tight shot of the watch will appear. Never does. Although, I’ll keep on trying.

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  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent

    The story I read was that the Rolex 6538 belonged to Cubby Broccoli?

    Funny enough, I found a picture here with Sean wearing the 6538 Big Crown, and Cubby's wrist is bare


  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
    edited October 2022

    Yeah, that’s the story, much repeated and swept into lore. Although it was never confirmed by Cubby himself. That watch interests me so much. Why was put on the leather strap? Was it for the film, or did Cubby prefer leather on it? And why was it put on the military strap later? And why those colours? And why didn’t they put one on that actually fitted? So may questions that will never be answered. The amount of vintage and modern Subs I’ve owned since because of that damned watch.

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  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent

    Another high-resolution shot. Doesn't bring much to the table, but it gives us an idea of the thickness and profile of the lugs



  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent

    That’s a good one. The lugs look shaped and not just straight like the Gruen. It certainly rules out the 510 as that has very straight parallel stick lugs. It also rules out many Smiths models, but again, they have many models that match those lugs, as do loads of others. Dial detail is the key. We have nothing that tells us what the dial configuration is, just a suggestion of the hand shape

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  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent
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  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent
    edited October 2022

    I don't know, looking at the picture form goldfinger it kind of looks like the same hour markers that can be seen on Connery's wrist when he is laying on the couch.

  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,485MI6 Agent

    You’re right. They are batons and the hands are gold and not straight. Plus the sub dial is obvious. What isn’t obvious is the 1/4 hour markers. We don’t know if they’re batons as well, or numerals. I’d go for batons, but the light may be blocking out bigger numerals, either Arabic or Roman. But you are making progress and more so than many in 30 odd years. In fact you’ve narrowed the options more in the last 24 hours than I’ve seen in years. Keep up the research.

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  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent

    No no absolutely, it doesn't give us the whole picture - My argument is that it gives validity to use the other picture (Connery on couch) where we have a fairly good look of the face (well, given it's a 60+year old photo)

  • Boothroyd89Boothroyd89 Posts: 64MI6 Agent

    I'm not suggesting any one of these are the correct watch, but it gives some inspiration as I do think they match both the hands and dial layout from what we can see.


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