I don't think it's either or, in the recent films there is a tension between old and new continually being negotiated, played and re-played. So you are both looking at the same Mountain from different vantage points. Omm. (I too shall get me coat)
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
I don't think it's either or, in the recent films there is a tension between old and new continually being negotiated, played and re-played. So you are both looking at the same Mountain from different vantage points. Omm. (I too shall get me coat)
There has indeed been a lot from both sides, but Bond's side is the old side, which has won against the new side. C tries to replace the 00 section with technology, and the old-fashioned method wins.
I don't think it's either or, in the recent films there is a tension between old and new continually being negotiated, played and re-played. So you are both looking at the same Mountain from different vantage points. Omm. (I too shall get me coat)
There has indeed been a lot from both sides, but Bond's side is the old side, which has won against the new side. C tries to replace the 00 section with technology, and the old-fashioned method wins.
So... in a nutshell, Bond doesn't like to be beside the C side?
L'american is a respectable, happy villa, but inside it hides a dark secret. A room
filled with the memories of torture and death.
In many ways mirroring Mr White himself. I'm sure his cover to the outside world
was a respectable businessman and father, but he too had a secret inside. With him
being a professional assassin.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Definite themes run through the better Bond films. For instance:
On Her Majesty's Secret Service: Time. The whole movie is organized around it, from the impending doom foretold in the opening sequence, to John Barry's instrumental score that sounds like a clock ticking down, to the credits sequence with a clock that never shows up in the film/scenes from previous films, to Bond wanting more time to chase down Blofeld, to the notion that crests and titles somehow beat the inevitability of time and allow a family to live on, to the officious Gebruder Gumbold and his obsession with time, to Louis Armstrong's song, to the countdown at Blofeld's lair, to the last line of the film. Time is repeated again and again.
Casino Royale is the bookend to this film. Here, Bond is not consumed by time because he is young and still, in his own way, hopeful. But he has to learn about trust. That echoes all through the film (and book). So we find Bond constantly being tested -- not trusting Carter to do his job right, trusting in his own abilities so much Bond puts himself at great physical risk and even breaks into homes and embassies, trusting Vesper and Mathis and finding himself betrayed by at least one of them, asking Vesper to trust that he can beat LeChiffre, playing poker (which is a game all about trust -- trusting your own instincts and whether to believe the other person is bluffing or not), M injecting Bond with the tracer because she doesn't trust him on his own, M telling him at the end literally he's learned his lesson not to trust others so easily. But like many modern films, the theme isn't as elegantly woven into the texture of the film -- certainly not as well as time shows up in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
Many of the best Bond films are adaptations or allusions to other things, bringing with them thematic elements. Dr. No is St. George and the Dragon (if one thinks of the "oriental" No as a dragon, something that is alluded to with the tank and so forth). Goldfinger is King Midas. Fleming's stories resonate better than most of the independently penned ones because he drew from well-established western lore in creating his characters and situations but disguised them enough that people generally don't see.
I suppose that's what I get for trying to add a little culture....
Nevertheless, TP has managed to make a good point. Q is the Wise Old Man figure found in many myths, stories, and franchises. Just as Obi-Wan gives Luke his lightsaber, or Merlin gives Arthur his sword, Q gives James a gadget-packed Aston Martin.
It's all part of the monomyth which I wil be going into later. At great length.
What fascinating to me about this point is that Fleming based the characters in his stories on real people and events from WWII. The Q character may be the "wizard" figure - but he was based on actual people who worked as weapons researchers for the SOE as was Q Branch being based on the SOE department responsible for special weapons development. Bond was based on the commandos and agents (like his brother) and M based on Fleming's boss Rear Admiral John Godfrey. It is what makes his novels so unique using basic mythological themes yet grounding them in the reality of the cold war using real life people and institutions from the hot war that came before it.
This is a very interesting thread. I have started doing another Bond marathon which I plan to do over the next few weeks so I might add my own observations to this thread from time to time. I have just watched Dr No and I notice the theme of "Fear" comes up a few times in the film:
DN - Fear
Strangeway's secretary screams before being shot
Bond seems scared when he hears Sylvia knocking about the golf balls in the other room of his apartment
Bond mentions to Leiter and Quarrel in the club "Who puts that kind of fear in people?"
Quarrel is visibly afraid of Crab Key
Bond is terrified of the spider in his bed
Quarrel and Honey are afraid of the "dragon" they both mention. Quarrel looks visibly scared when shooting at the dragon tank.
Miss Taro looks visibly shocked when Bond turns up at her door
There are many "Danger" signs shown on Crab Key and in Dr No's base. The "Danger Level" sign on the control that Bond uses before his fight with Dr No is the most obvious one
When Bond and Quarrel are shooting at the dragon tank, Honey comes up to Bond and says she was frightened
Bond says that he is "scared too" when in the lift with Honey before they meet Dr No
Everyone is running around in panic in Dr No's base once the radiation level goes above normal
The subtext I took away from From Russia With Love is the theme of "(Fake) Family" based on the following instances:
The SPECTRE organisation is depicted somehow like a mafia family - Blofeld is the father figure sat at the table with his SPECTRE ring showing he is "married" to the organisation. Klebb and Kronsteen are the siblings
Kerim Bay mentions his sons many times and how important "blood" is the best security in his business. It is interesting that he does not mention that the woman he is making out with in his office is his wife yet refers to her as "the girl"
The Bulgarians are somewhat portrayed as a band of brothers who work for the Russians
When Bond and Kerim are watching the Russian consulate through the periscope, the way the men are sat at the table looks like a family dinner scene. The main guy has an argument with Krilencu which resembles an argument at a family dinner table
Bond and Kerim are invited to the gypsy camp. Kerim mentions that he is a friend of the family. A family feud is shown with the two gypsy girls willing to fight over the same man they love
Labadov, the main gypsy guy, thanks Bond for saving his life and says Bond is now his "son"
Bond mentions that his hotel bed is too small despite the fact that he is there alone. For breakfast he orders items specifically for one (an obvious sign that he is there alone without family)
Bond and Tanya take the identity of "Mr and Mrs Somerset" with Tanya getting a fake wedding ring. Tanya mentions whether they have any children and is disappointed that she does not even have one little boy
Nash calls Bond "Old Man" several times. This term has the subtle meaning of "father"
Thanks for the correction Barbel. I don't know where I got the name "Labadov" from 🙄.
My two cents on the subtext in Goldfinger is that it relates to "Deception" although granted this theme could apply to any of the films. However, I notice this theme comes up a lot in this film:
The film early on seems to present deception as a running theme. Bond is wearing a seagull swimming hat, breaks into a silo which looks like it has lush living quarters inside and then takes off his wetsuit to reveal his white tuxedo underneath
The dancer in the pre-credits sequence also tries to deceive Bond into almost falling into the trap of being attacked from behind
Goldfinger is deceptive during the card game. He punishes Jill Masterson for deceiving him afterwards
Bond seems to get shirty with M possibly believing that M is being deceptive about his assignment to watch over Goldfinger
Moneypenny believes Bond is being deceptive about not wanting to come over to hers for dinner
Goldfinger deceives the British government with his whole gold smuggling operation
Goldfinger and Bond both try to deceive one another during their game of golf
Bond tries to deceive Tilly Masterson into thinking the blowout on her car tyres were an accident. She in turn tries to deceive Bond that the case she has contains her ice skates
The sweet old lady near Goldfinger's facory appears deceptive as she later fires off a number of rounds from an automatic machine gun
The mirror in the factory alley is a deception device into getting Bond to think another car is driving straight into his
Bond tries to deceive Goldfinger on the laser table by getting him to believe that he knows what Operation Grandslam is. Goldfinger in turn tries to deceive the British and Americans that Bond is his honoured guest when in Kentucky
Bond tries to deceive the guard outside his cell into thinking he has escaped
Goldfinger deceives the gangsters that he is attempting to rob Fort Knox. He ultimately ends up killing them and the late Mr Solo
The CIA and the US army ultimately try to deceive Goldfinger into thinking that the nerve gas has worked effectively by pretending to be dead outside
Goldfinger deceives some US soldiers by putting on an army uniform form shortly before shooting them at the entrance of the Fort Know vault
@sinlum Thanks for your interesting notes. I too enjoy the whole business of spotting subtextual themes in Bond films. On GF, one would hope to find elements of deception in a film about spies and crime, I suppose, and your list gives precise illustrations. I'd add that the theme of gold is also pervasive, from aspects of the film's colour palette to some of the mimetic musical choices in the soundtrack.
On other Bond films, I've previously argued the case that a theme of phoniness is germane to DAF (see post #88 of the 'Pros and Cons: Diamonds Are Forever' thread, in 'The James Bond Film' forum), and that there's a significant ocular theme* in SP (see post #14 of the 'Pros and Cons: SPECTRE' thread.) Again, these are both themes which tie in to the spy genre generally. I'm not sure that all Bond films have subtextual themes to the same extent, or as knowingly, but several do.
*The theme of 'looking' also runs through the first three Bond fims, where it relates not only to the 'spy' genre but also, in Hitchcockian style, to the scopic pleasure of cinema itself, i.e. viewing film (e.g. the gunbarrel sequence, acknowledging in an iconic piece of pop art the voyeurism implicit in our viewing situation; 'freelance' taking photos of Bond; Bond "just looking" at Honey on the beach; Bond getting a first view of Tania, or her legs, through the periscope to the consulate; Bond viewing Anita Ekberg's mouth through the sight on Kerim's rifle; SPECTRE filming Bond's lovemaking with Tania; Bond allowing the film to slip through his fingers while waving goodbye to the audience; Bond catching the reflection, in a girl's eye, of an oncoming assailant; Robert Brownjohn projecting film clips on the body of a 'golden girl'; Bond having "a bit of fun" looking, with Jill, through a pair of binoculars at Goldfinger starting to lose at cards; Bond playfully frustrating a stewardess's use of spyholes as she attempts to keep an eye on him in the washroom on Goldfinger's plane; Bond, in his cell, winkingly pranking a guard by disappearing from his sight, then violently overcoming him; Bond spying on Goldfinger's briefing of Operation Grand Slam through the slats in a model, etc.).
Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
Comments
I don't think it's either or, in the recent films there is a tension between old and new continually being negotiated, played and re-played. So you are both looking at the same Mountain from different vantage points. Omm. (I too shall get me coat)
There has indeed been a lot from both sides, but Bond's side is the old side, which has won against the new side. C tries to replace the 00 section with technology, and the old-fashioned method wins.
So... in a nutshell, Bond doesn't like to be beside the C side?
filled with the memories of torture and death.
In many ways mirroring Mr White himself. I'm sure his cover to the outside world
was a respectable businessman and father, but he too had a secret inside. With him
being a professional assassin.
On Her Majesty's Secret Service: Time. The whole movie is organized around it, from the impending doom foretold in the opening sequence, to John Barry's instrumental score that sounds like a clock ticking down, to the credits sequence with a clock that never shows up in the film/scenes from previous films, to Bond wanting more time to chase down Blofeld, to the notion that crests and titles somehow beat the inevitability of time and allow a family to live on, to the officious Gebruder Gumbold and his obsession with time, to Louis Armstrong's song, to the countdown at Blofeld's lair, to the last line of the film. Time is repeated again and again.
Casino Royale is the bookend to this film. Here, Bond is not consumed by time because he is young and still, in his own way, hopeful. But he has to learn about trust. That echoes all through the film (and book). So we find Bond constantly being tested -- not trusting Carter to do his job right, trusting in his own abilities so much Bond puts himself at great physical risk and even breaks into homes and embassies, trusting Vesper and Mathis and finding himself betrayed by at least one of them, asking Vesper to trust that he can beat LeChiffre, playing poker (which is a game all about trust -- trusting your own instincts and whether to believe the other person is bluffing or not), M injecting Bond with the tracer because she doesn't trust him on his own, M telling him at the end literally he's learned his lesson not to trust others so easily. But like many modern films, the theme isn't as elegantly woven into the texture of the film -- certainly not as well as time shows up in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
Many of the best Bond films are adaptations or allusions to other things, bringing with them thematic elements. Dr. No is St. George and the Dragon (if one thinks of the "oriental" No as a dragon, something that is alluded to with the tank and so forth). Goldfinger is King Midas. Fleming's stories resonate better than most of the independently penned ones because he drew from well-established western lore in creating his characters and situations but disguised them enough that people generally don't see.
What fascinating to me about this point is that Fleming based the characters in his stories on real people and events from WWII. The Q character may be the "wizard" figure - but he was based on actual people who worked as weapons researchers for the SOE as was Q Branch being based on the SOE department responsible for special weapons development. Bond was based on the commandos and agents (like his brother) and M based on Fleming's boss Rear Admiral John Godfrey. It is what makes his novels so unique using basic mythological themes yet grounding them in the reality of the cold war using real life people and institutions from the hot war that came before it.
This is a very interesting thread. I have started doing another Bond marathon which I plan to do over the next few weeks so I might add my own observations to this thread from time to time. I have just watched Dr No and I notice the theme of "Fear" comes up a few times in the film:
DN - Fear
Glad you like this thread, sinlum. Nice to see it being revived.
The subtext I took away from From Russia With Love is the theme of "(Fake) Family" based on the following instances:
By Nash above I meant Grant 😂👆️
Nice analysis, sinlum. The gypsy is called "Vavra", BTW, not Labadov. Some good observations there.
Thanks for the correction Barbel. I don't know where I got the name "Labadov" from 🙄.
My two cents on the subtext in Goldfinger is that it relates to "Deception" although granted this theme could apply to any of the films. However, I notice this theme comes up a lot in this film:
@sinlum Thanks for your interesting notes. I too enjoy the whole business of spotting subtextual themes in Bond films. On GF, one would hope to find elements of deception in a film about spies and crime, I suppose, and your list gives precise illustrations. I'd add that the theme of gold is also pervasive, from aspects of the film's colour palette to some of the mimetic musical choices in the soundtrack.
On other Bond films, I've previously argued the case that a theme of phoniness is germane to DAF (see post #88 of the 'Pros and Cons: Diamonds Are Forever' thread, in 'The James Bond Film' forum), and that there's a significant ocular theme* in SP (see post #14 of the 'Pros and Cons: SPECTRE' thread.) Again, these are both themes which tie in to the spy genre generally. I'm not sure that all Bond films have subtextual themes to the same extent, or as knowingly, but several do.
*The theme of 'looking' also runs through the first three Bond fims, where it relates not only to the 'spy' genre but also, in Hitchcockian style, to the scopic pleasure of cinema itself, i.e. viewing film (e.g. the gunbarrel sequence, acknowledging in an iconic piece of pop art the voyeurism implicit in our viewing situation; 'freelance' taking photos of Bond; Bond "just looking" at Honey on the beach; Bond getting a first view of Tania, or her legs, through the periscope to the consulate; Bond viewing Anita Ekberg's mouth through the sight on Kerim's rifle; SPECTRE filming Bond's lovemaking with Tania; Bond allowing the film to slip through his fingers while waving goodbye to the audience; Bond catching the reflection, in a girl's eye, of an oncoming assailant; Robert Brownjohn projecting film clips on the body of a 'golden girl'; Bond having "a bit of fun" looking, with Jill, through a pair of binoculars at Goldfinger starting to lose at cards; Bond playfully frustrating a stewardess's use of spyholes as she attempts to keep an eye on him in the washroom on Goldfinger's plane; Bond, in his cell, winkingly pranking a guard by disappearing from his sight, then violently overcoming him; Bond spying on Goldfinger's briefing of Operation Grand Slam through the slats in a model, etc.).