Subtext and themes

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    Once again I stand corrected. :#
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,405MI6 Agent
    Once again I stand corrected. :#

    I don't think it's either or, in the recent films there is a tension between old and new continually being negotiated, played and re-played. So you are both looking at the same Mountain from different vantage points. Omm. (I too shall get me coat)
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,522MI6 Agent
    zaphod99 wrote:
    Once again I stand corrected. :#

    I don't think it's either or, in the recent films there is a tension between old and new continually being negotiated, played and re-played. So you are both looking at the same Mountain from different vantage points. Omm. (I too shall get me coat)

    There has indeed been a lot from both sides, but Bond's side is the old side, which has won against the new side. C tries to replace the 00 section with technology, and the old-fashioned method wins.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    I'm not getting involved :D not only will I get my coat, but I'll race you to the taxi. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 30,897Chief of Staff
    Matt S wrote:
    zaphod99 wrote:
    Once again I stand corrected. :#

    I don't think it's either or, in the recent films there is a tension between old and new continually being negotiated, played and re-played. So you are both looking at the same Mountain from different vantage points. Omm. (I too shall get me coat)

    There has indeed been a lot from both sides, but Bond's side is the old side, which has won against the new side. C tries to replace the 00 section with technology, and the old-fashioned method wins.

    So... in a nutshell, Bond doesn't like to be beside the C side?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    L'american is a respectable, happy villa, but inside it hides a dark secret. A room
    filled with the memories of torture and death.
    In many ways mirroring Mr White himself. I'm sure his cover to the outside world
    was a respectable businessman and father, but he too had a secret inside. With him
    being a professional assassin. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,685MI6 Agent
    Definite themes run through the better Bond films. For instance:

    On Her Majesty's Secret Service: Time. The whole movie is organized around it, from the impending doom foretold in the opening sequence, to John Barry's instrumental score that sounds like a clock ticking down, to the credits sequence with a clock that never shows up in the film/scenes from previous films, to Bond wanting more time to chase down Blofeld, to the notion that crests and titles somehow beat the inevitability of time and allow a family to live on, to the officious Gebruder Gumbold and his obsession with time, to Louis Armstrong's song, to the countdown at Blofeld's lair, to the last line of the film. Time is repeated again and again.

    Casino Royale is the bookend to this film. Here, Bond is not consumed by time because he is young and still, in his own way, hopeful. But he has to learn about trust. That echoes all through the film (and book). So we find Bond constantly being tested -- not trusting Carter to do his job right, trusting in his own abilities so much Bond puts himself at great physical risk and even breaks into homes and embassies, trusting Vesper and Mathis and finding himself betrayed by at least one of them, asking Vesper to trust that he can beat LeChiffre, playing poker (which is a game all about trust -- trusting your own instincts and whether to believe the other person is bluffing or not), M injecting Bond with the tracer because she doesn't trust him on his own, M telling him at the end literally he's learned his lesson not to trust others so easily. But like many modern films, the theme isn't as elegantly woven into the texture of the film -- certainly not as well as time shows up in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

    Many of the best Bond films are adaptations or allusions to other things, bringing with them thematic elements. Dr. No is St. George and the Dragon (if one thinks of the "oriental" No as a dragon, something that is alluded to with the tank and so forth). Goldfinger is King Midas. Fleming's stories resonate better than most of the independently penned ones because he drew from well-established western lore in creating his characters and situations but disguised them enough that people generally don't see.
  • CmdrAtticusCmdrAtticus United StatesPosts: 1,102MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    I suppose that's what I get for trying to add a little culture.... :(

    Nevertheless, TP has managed to make a good point. Q is the Wise Old Man figure found in many myths, stories, and franchises. Just as Obi-Wan gives Luke his lightsaber, or Merlin gives Arthur his sword, Q gives James a gadget-packed Aston Martin.
    It's all part of the monomyth which I wil be going into later. At great length. :D

    What fascinating to me about this point is that Fleming based the characters in his stories on real people and events from WWII. The Q character may be the "wizard" figure - but he was based on actual people who worked as weapons researchers for the SOE as was Q Branch being based on the SOE department responsible for special weapons development. Bond was based on the commandos and agents (like his brother) and M based on Fleming's boss Rear Admiral John Godfrey. It is what makes his novels so unique using basic mythological themes yet grounding them in the reality of the cold war using real life people and institutions from the hot war that came before it.
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