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SP is not a "by the numbers" bond film at all

JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,206MI6 Agent
edited November -1 in SPECTRE - Bond 24 (2015)
I hear many people saying that SP is the most "by the numbers" bond film DC has done. To me, this couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, I think it might be the least by the numbers bond film, out of the entire series.

To me, a "by the numbers" bond film is basically:

- The feel of what I like to call an "episodic romp", which is basically how I feel about the first 15 bond films
- Minimum level of personal stuff
- Little character development for the supporting characters like Q, M, Moneypenny
- Bond just sent on missions, getting with the girl at the end
- Little focus on MI6 itself


So let's look at SP...

FULL of personal storylines - bond's parents references, the blofeld foster brother storyline. Bond going rogue. Big role for M, nineyes plot. Returning character commiting suicide and his daughter getting with bond. Bond retiring at the end. There is absolutely bugger all "by the numbers" about SP, a remark that I have never understood.

To me, none of the bond films have been "by the numbers" since LTK. Although LTK still felt episodic like the rest somehow.

The Brosnan era, on a whole, were almost by the numbers, although from this point onwards, M had a big role - her introduction in GE, the admiral in TND telling her she didn't have the balls for the job, her big role in TWINE - from the Brosnan era onwards there seems to have been big character development for M, when prior to this, it was bond only. Having said this though, the Brosnan era still maintained an "episodic romp" format to some extent. But the DC films did not, and magnified the character-driven stuff introduced in the Brosnan era by 10x, and from that point on, the bond films were now psychological, character-driven thrillers, rather than the episodic romp feel that bond had been since 1962.

So yeah, none of the DC bond films were "by the numbers" at all, and that includes SP, and I'd even go as far to say that SP is the least by the numbers bond film of them. Anyone agree?
1 - Lald, 2 - Ltk, 3 - Avtak, 4 - Op, 5 - Dn, 6 - Fyeo, 7 - Tswlm, 8 - Daf, 9 - Sf, 10 - Ohmss, 11 - Yolt, 12 - Ge, 13 - Tld, 14 - Mr, 15 - Gf, 16 - Tb, 17 - Tmwtgg, 18 - Sp, 19 - Tnd, 20 - Dad, 21 - Twine, 22 - Frwl, 23 - Cr, 24 - Qos

1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
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Comments

  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,585MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Absolutely.
    Everyone coming together in the final climax (not to mention everyone having risked their jobs for Bond), Q helping out Bond in the field (even though he hates travelling)...the list goes on.
    That's why I love SPECTRE so much.
    a reasonable rate of return
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 2,136MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    all good points
    it may just be the return of elements like the gadget-ty car chase, the indestructible henchman, and the villains HQ
    but as others have argued these elements are all underdeveloped, and the aspects you are pointing out are all more important to the completed film

    LTK may seem episodic to you because it is the last film made that still involved the original generation of filmmakers
    of the 4 Brosnans TND and DAD both recycled a lot of that epic swashbuckling stuff from the Gilbert films in particular, GE and tWiNE were more original
    but all four of them involved unformulaic plottwists and personal angles which would have never have appeared in the original series of movies
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 SwitzerlandPosts: 870MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Absolutely.
    Everyone coming together in the final climax (not to mention everyone having risked their jobs for Bond), Q helping out Bond in the field (even though he hates travelling)...the list goes on.
    That's why I love SPECTRE so much.


    Absolutely.
    The Scooby Gang in SPECTRE is fantastic. I love every second of screen time of Q, MP and M, even Tanner :))
    Dalton Rulez™
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,585MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Absolutely.
    Everyone coming together in the final climax (not to mention everyone having risked their jobs for Bond), Q helping out Bond in the field (even though he hates travelling)...the list goes on.
    That's why I love SPECTRE so much.


    Absolutely.
    The Scooby Gang in SPECTRE is fantastic. I love every second of screen time of Q, MP and M, even Tanner :))
    The elusive 006 came out of the shadows.
    a reasonable rate of return
  • thesecretagentthesecretagent CornwallPosts: 2,151MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Hated it. Warmed to it. Now actually quite like it.
    Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:

    http://apbateman.com
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,685MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Eh, take out the silliness about Bond and Blofeld being brothers, and it pretty much is a standard Bond film, with the exception that its actions sequences generally underwhelm. It's certainly the closest thing Craig has made to one.
  • JoshuaJoshua Posts: 954MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    I have not seen the spectre film yet. It will be on television soon i think.
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,206MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Eh, take out the silliness about Bond and Blofeld being brothers, and it pretty much is a standard Bond film, with the exception that its actions sequences generally underwhelm. It's certainly the closest thing Craig has made to one.

    I respectfully disagree, the nine-eyes plot and heavy MI6 focus is very prominent too.

    Taking out the Blofeld brothers plot would certainly make it more standard, but you could say the same thing about the other 3 DC films in terms of taking out certain elements of them too. And even with that, nine-eyes remains.

    I'm not sure what the most 'standard' Craig bond film is. Maybe QOS, but it is a very hard choice, because none of them are even close.
    1 - Lald, 2 - Ltk, 3 - Avtak, 4 - Op, 5 - Dn, 6 - Fyeo, 7 - Tswlm, 8 - Daf, 9 - Sf, 10 - Ohmss, 11 - Yolt, 12 - Ge, 13 - Tld, 14 - Mr, 15 - Gf, 16 - Tb, 17 - Tmwtgg, 18 - Sp, 19 - Tnd, 20 - Dad, 21 - Twine, 22 - Frwl, 23 - Cr, 24 - Qos

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,338MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Jarvio wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Eh, take out the silliness about Bond and Blofeld being brothers, and it pretty much is a standard Bond film, with the exception that its actions sequences generally underwhelm. It's certainly the closest thing Craig has made to one.

    I respectfully disagree, the nine-eyes plot and heavy MI6 focus is very prominent too.

    Taking out the Blofeld brothers plot would certainly make it more standard, but you could say the same thing about the other 3 DC films in terms of taking out certain elements of them too. And even with that, nine-eyes remains.

    I'm not sure what the most 'standard' Craig bond film is. Maybe QOS, but it is a very hard choice, because none of them are even close.

    I think CR is probably Dc's most standard film, lots of locations it's relatively faithful to the book, we have gadgets, dinner suits, a casino a train and an Aston Martin. OK the gunbarrel and bond theme aside.
    The problem with Spectre is that you simply can't think about it too much or else you get annoyed with the amount of questions you end up with, it's only the score that makes most action scenes underwhelming. Given that Spectre was mendes vision if Bond he missed the mark on a few things. He should have stopped with sf inmho. For me there is still much to enjoy with Spectre and that's what I prefer to think about. The bad bits such as the brother thing, the Rome car chase ruined by the phonecall, bad use of locations, plot holes I ignore as best I can and concentrate on the bits I like such as Bonds interaction with Q and tanner, seeing bonds flat, that db10, hinx, train fight, the scenes in l'americain, the scene with Lucia set to Cum Dederit etc there's lots to love.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,585MI6 Agent
    edited August 2017
    I've made peace with myself for the fact that we won't get a "standard" Bond film with Craig.
    giphy.gif
    It's just the way it is and TBH, I don't mind it. All of the Bond films are excellent in some way and Craig's era is no exception.
    SPECTRE is an excellent Bond movie and good enough to even stand on its own as a good movie.
    There are some people here who stick to one or two aspects and leech off of those to b*tch and moan about the movie.
    Then again, its their opinion and I'm not the boss of you, so...
    a reasonable rate of return
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 30,580Chief of Staff
    edited November -1
    a "standard" Bond film
    giphy.gif

    IMHO, the one that comes closest to that description is

    AA_OLD_MAN_3.jpg

    (and that isn't a criticism of it).
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,585MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Barbel wrote:
    a "standard" Bond film
    giphy.gif

    IMHO, the one that comes closest to that description is

    AA_OLD_MAN_3.jpg

    (and that isn't a criticism of it).
    Yes (and I love TND, excellent movie) but I wouldn't want a series full of TNDs (even if it wouldn't be bad).
    "Variety is the spice of life"* and keeps things a bit fresh and interesting. Imagine how boring it would be if we didn't have people b*tching and moaning about the films.
    *(except if you're married and stuff. I think I covered all the bases.)
    a reasonable rate of return
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 30,580Chief of Staff
    edited November -1
    Agreed, that's one the series' great strengths: variety. {[] Keeping things the same... but different!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    https://youtu.be/dOLq5Rg9N-c
    This one's different. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,585MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Barbel wrote:
    Agreed, that's one the series' great strengths: variety. {[] Keeping things the same... but different!
    {[] ...and the one that matches that description would be:
    Moonraker+%25281979%2529.jpg
    [Which vastly improved Spy, IMO. Damn...that poster is excellent (7 people, 6 girls and 7 is 007 in the middle). That tears it, I'm watching MR tonight.]

    TP, I'm guessing you're the guy that commented "Different, Different, Different." :007)
    a reasonable rate of return
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 30,580Chief of Staff
    edited November -1
    https://youtu.be/dOLq5Rg9N-c
    This one's different. ;)

    All the difference in the world.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    ... It had to be. When he's around. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • walther p99walther p99 NJPosts: 3,392MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Chriscoop wrote:
    Jarvio wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    Eh, take out the silliness about Bond and Blofeld being brothers, and it pretty much is a standard Bond film, with the exception that its actions sequences generally underwhelm. It's certainly the closest thing Craig has made to one.

    I respectfully disagree, the nine-eyes plot and heavy MI6 focus is very prominent too.

    Taking out the Blofeld brothers plot would certainly make it more standard, but you could say the same thing about the other 3 DC films in terms of taking out certain elements of them too. And even with that, nine-eyes remains.

    I'm not sure what the most 'standard' Craig bond film is. Maybe QOS, but it is a very hard choice, because none of them are even close.

    I think CR is probably Dc's most standard film, lots of locations it's relatively faithful to the book, we have gadgets, dinner suits, a casino a train and an Aston Martin. OK the gunbarrel and bond theme aside.
    The problem with Spectre is that you simply can't think about it too much or else you get annoyed with the amount of questions you end up with, it's only the score that makes most action scenes underwhelming. Given that Spectre was mendes vision if Bond he missed the mark on a few things. He should have stopped with sf inmho. For me there is still much to enjoy with Spectre and that's what I prefer to think about. The bad bits such as the brother thing, the Rome car chase ruined by the phonecall, bad use of locations, plot holes I ignore as best I can and concentrate on the bits I like such as Bonds interaction with Q and tanner, seeing bonds flat, that db10, hinx, train fight, the scenes in l'americain, the scene with Lucia set to Cum Dederit etc there's lots to love.
    I think the first half of the film in London is damn near perfect. Starts with Bond in M's office, then his flat, then meeting with Q, its all classic Bond. Its only once he leaves London and sets off on a pretty drawn out been there done that adventure draws the most criticism.
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,206MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    I really enjoyed SP when it first came out, but now that some time has passed, I believe that the Blofeld's 'reasoning' for wanting revenge on bond is the dumbest thing to ever grace a bond film.
    1 - Lald, 2 - Ltk, 3 - Avtak, 4 - Op, 5 - Dn, 6 - Fyeo, 7 - Tswlm, 8 - Daf, 9 - Sf, 10 - Ohmss, 11 - Yolt, 12 - Ge, 13 - Tld, 14 - Mr, 15 - Gf, 16 - Tb, 17 - Tmwtgg, 18 - Sp, 19 - Tnd, 20 - Dad, 21 - Twine, 22 - Frwl, 23 - Cr, 24 - Qos

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,338MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Chriscoop wrote:
    Jarvio wrote:

    I respectfully disagree, the nine-eyes plot and heavy MI6 focus is very prominent too.

    Taking out the Blofeld brothers plot would certainly make it more standard, but you could say the same thing about the other 3 DC films in terms of taking out certain elements of them too. And even with that, nine-eyes remains.

    I'm not sure what the most 'standard' Craig bond film is. Maybe QOS, but it is a very hard choice, because none of them are even close.

    I think CR is probably Dc's most standard film, lots of locations it's relatively faithful to the book, we have gadgets, dinner suits, a casino a train and an Aston Martin. OK the gunbarrel and bond theme aside.
    The problem with Spectre is that you simply can't think about it too much or else you get annoyed with the amount of questions you end up with, it's only the score that makes most action scenes underwhelming. Given that Spectre was mendes vision if Bond he missed the mark on a few things. He should have stopped with sf inmho. For me there is still much to enjoy with Spectre and that's what I prefer to think about. The bad bits such as the brother thing, the Rome car chase ruined by the phonecall, bad use of locations, plot holes I ignore as best I can and concentrate on the bits I like such as Bonds interaction with Q and tanner, seeing bonds flat, that db10, hinx, train fight, the scenes in l'americain, the scene with Lucia set to Cum Dederit etc there's lots to love.
    I think the first half of the film in London is damn near perfect. Starts with Bond in M's office, then his flat, then meeting with Q, its all classic Bond. Its only once he leaves London and sets off on a pretty drawn out been there done that adventure draws the most criticism.
    I enjoy the London scenes too it's after the Rome scenes it sort of unravels a bit. But for me there is enough to enjoy, I like the Mr white scene, I like the fight at the hoffner klinik, the l'americain room scene, I like the train fight, the silver wraith scene. Not fussed about Blofelds lair, and In the finale I like the safehouse and bond breaking cable tie. As these scenes come often enough for me to enjoy the whole film. Bond and Blofelds interaction I tend to go put the kettle on or put my fingers in my ears and think of my own lines just not to hear the universally disliked brother thing and author of all your pain.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,516MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Jarvio wrote:
    I really enjoyed SP when it first came out, but now that some time has passed, I believe that the Blofeld's 'reasoning' for wanting revenge on bond is the dumbest thing to ever grace a bond film.

    That's what a friend of mine said to me when he first saw it, and it made him stop caring about what happened. It just made Blofeld seem a whole lot less menacing, and the stakes were lowered considerably when we find out the reason.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,338MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Matt S wrote:
    Jarvio wrote:
    I really enjoyed SP when it first came out, but now that some time has passed, I believe that the Blofeld's 'reasoning' for wanting revenge on bond is the dumbest thing to ever grace a bond film.

    That's what a friend of mine said to me when he first saw it, and it made him stop caring about what happened. It just made Blofeld seem a whole lot less menacing, and the stakes were lowered considerably when we find out the reason.
    Agreed, not world domination or a psychopathic criminal mastermind out to blackmail the world powers but a slightly weird man who has a daddy complex and heads up a prostitute, drug dealing and human trafficking syndicate. Quantums world water control plan was better for such an organisation. Blofeld should be diabolical not what we got in Spectre, which started well with his introduction in Rome, but then you ask why was everyone so scared of him?
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,338MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    And what was the point if nine eyes? Quantum had people everywhere they facilitated government changes, had the cia in their pocket and had a man stood next to the chief of mi6.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,585MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Chriscoop wrote:
    And what was the point if nine eyes? Quantum had people everywhere they facilitated government changes, had the cia in their pocket and had a man stood next to the chief of mi6.
    Had.
    It wasn't SPECTRE's style after Quantum became defunct. Why would they have people who could betray them when they could take matters into their own hands?
    a reasonable rate of return
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,338MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Chriscoop wrote:
    And what was the point if nine eyes? Quantum had people everywhere they facilitated government changes, had the cia in their pocket and had a man stood next to the chief of mi6.
    Had.
    It wasn't SPECTRE's style after Quantum became defunct. Why would they have people who could betray them when they could take matters into their own hands?
    I must have the missed the part where it was explained that quantum became defunct and was absorbed by a man with dozens of minions looking at monitors in a desert lair I'm sure those guys were all completely beyond betrayal ;)
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 24,948Chief of Staff
    edited November -1
    Chriscoop wrote:
    And what was the point if nine eyes? Quantum had people everywhere they facilitated government changes, had the cia in their pocket and had a man stood next to the chief of mi6.

    Didn't Greene give chapter and verse on Quantum to Bond? Perhaps Quantum was 'rolled up'?
    YNWA 96

    The Unbearables
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,585MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Chriscoop wrote:
    And what was the point if nine eyes? Quantum had people everywhere they facilitated government changes, had the cia in their pocket and had a man stood next to the chief of mi6.

    Didn't Greene give chapter and verse on Quantum to Bond? Perhaps Quantum was 'rolled up'?
    Exactly. He told Bond everything he needed to know about Quantum. It was finished. Flushed. Dead in the water.
    a reasonable rate of return
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,338MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Chriscoop wrote:
    And what was the point if nine eyes? Quantum had people everywhere they facilitated government changes, had the cia in their pocket and had a man stood next to the chief of mi6.

    Didn't Greene give chapter and verse on Quantum to Bond? Perhaps Quantum was 'rolled up'?

    He did indeed, which doesn't explain Mr whites involvement with Spectre. Or Blofelds involvement in quantum And Blofeld recalling meeting madeleine Swann as a child? in any event the demise of Quantum was never explained, what did they do just change the corporate name and order some new rings and headed letter paper?
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • walther p99walther p99 NJPosts: 3,392MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Matt S wrote:
    Jarvio wrote:
    I really enjoyed SP when it first came out, but now that some time has passed, I believe that the Blofeld's 'reasoning' for wanting revenge on bond is the dumbest thing to ever grace a bond film.

    That's what a friend of mine said to me when he first saw it, and it made him stop caring about what happened. It just made Blofeld seem a whole lot less menacing, and the stakes were lowered considerably when we find out the reason.
    Have to agree, makes Blofeld seem incredibly sad and pathetic. Besides the whole obsessive revenge theme was done in SF anyway. They obviously just unsuccessfully upped the ante for Spectre.
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,206MI6 Agent
    edited November -1
    Matt S wrote:
    Jarvio wrote:
    I really enjoyed SP when it first came out, but now that some time has passed, I believe that the Blofeld's 'reasoning' for wanting revenge on bond is the dumbest thing to ever grace a bond film.

    That's what a friend of mine said to me when he first saw it, and it made him stop caring about what happened. It just made Blofeld seem a whole lot less menacing, and the stakes were lowered considerably when we find out the reason.
    Have to agree, makes Blofeld seem incredibly sad and pathetic. Besides the whole obsessive revenge theme was done in SF anyway. They obviously just unsuccessfully upped the ante for Spectre.

    Yep. And not only was the revenge thing already done in SF, it was ten times better too. Silva actually had good reasoning, unlike Blofeld.
    1 - Lald, 2 - Ltk, 3 - Avtak, 4 - Op, 5 - Dn, 6 - Fyeo, 7 - Tswlm, 8 - Daf, 9 - Sf, 10 - Ohmss, 11 - Yolt, 12 - Ge, 13 - Tld, 14 - Mr, 15 - Gf, 16 - Tb, 17 - Tmwtgg, 18 - Sp, 19 - Tnd, 20 - Dad, 21 - Twine, 22 - Frwl, 23 - Cr, 24 - Qos

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
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