Props - Diamonds Are Forever Piton Gun
thespyboys11
Lindenwold,NJPosts: 1,845MI6 Agent
In my full-time quest to secure and locate Bond props I sometimes run across obstacles that are difficult to hurdle.
As we all know, several real-life items made their way into Q-Branch and these real-life counterparts are, in some cases, very elusive.
Case in point is this particular item...the piton firing gun used by Bond in "Diamonds are Forever"
Very few photos of the actual screen-used prop have ever been seen. The still photographs of Connery aiming/shooting it are never clear enough to see it clearly. Even screen captures rarely show the entire pistol.
The first time I saw this was in Lee Phieffers great book "The Incredible world of 007" Page 171 shows a photo of it amongst other props from the film. However, it's dark enough not to be able to ID the actual gun.
The next time I saw this prop was when I visited Desmond Llewelyn’s home.
It was one of the many iconic props entrusted him to carry (in the original screen-used attaché’ case) to the various James Bond exhibitions he often attended.
It wasn’t exactly in the most pristine of condition as Desmond had a habit of simply throwing the props he carried around into the attaché ‘unprotected and it all rattled around as he traveled from place to place. If you ever saw photos of the interior of the case you know understand why it’s in its current condition.
At various times, Desmond had the following props “Banging” around in there:
FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE “Beeper”
THUNDERBALL Nikonos underwater camera
YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE Gyrojet bullet
DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER Piton fun and Piton with rope
DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER “Bang” pistol from deleted scene.
DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER Finger trap
DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER Magnetic ring
SPY WHO LOVED ME Corgi Lotus
FOR YOUR EYES ONLY Walther PPK
LIVING DAYLIGHTS Phillips Key ring
Anyway, let’s get back to the piton gun….
I noticed that the 4 ½ inch long x 1 inch diameter barrel had the only markings stamped into the top. It said “Harrington & Richardson Arms Co. – Worchester, MA USA”
The rest of the gun was unmarked and obviously made of blued steel. I noticed that the hammer had the tip broken off (No doubt to its slamming around inside the attaché’ case)
and that the hammer could not be cocked. It appeared that something was jamming it from moving. I then noticed that a steel pin was protruding from a hole and, when I moved the hammer, seemed to slightly move. I pointed it out to Steve who quickly took out his Leatherman tool and plucked the pin out. Desmond turned to see him do this and said “What are you doing!!” I quickly explained that we were simply repairing the pistol and repositioning the pin into its proper location. After we reinserted the pin in the other hole the pistol worked perfectly. Desmond was very impressed with our knowledge of the prop and said “We should have you both working with us at Q-Branch”
Upon returning home I tried to track down the pistol armed only with photographs and markings. Well…easier said than done. Harrington & Richardson had gone out of business so my only other source was to search through gun magazines and newspapers.
Remember that this was prior to the availability of the internet.
One day I spotted an ad for the barrel that had the correct markings and matched the one in the photo!!! It stated that it was manufactured by H&R for the British army. I quickly purchased it…just in case. I then proceeded to take both the barrel and my photo to various gun shows. I approached several collectors of flare guns (as that is what it appeared to be) to no success!! I contacted collectors and various gun magazines and sent photos along with the meager information I had. Again, no luck!! No one could recognize it!!! (But, thinking I owned it, all wanted to buy it) I suspect that either it was either a case of their truly not recognizing it or perhaps not telling me what it was due to their recognizing it as an extremely rare version they wanted to add to their collection. (Collectors sometimes do that…LOL)
I recently ran across an ad selling the Harrington & Richardson MK VI Lanyard gun and guess what…it had the same barrel and markings. Unfortunately, that’s where the similarity ends. The remaining part looked nothing like the film prop.
Some other fans have stated that perhaps it was another item built by the prop department for the film. Well, I had it in my hand and I can tell you…if the prop department made it then they must be qualified gunsmiths as this was built as many real firearms I’ve ever handled. There were no rough markings at all this was precise machining!! Another reason I believe it to be a real-life item is that the internal mechanism functioned flawlessly (after we fixed it…LOL) Why would the prop maker bother to go through the trouble of designing and making it fully functional for only the brief times it appeared in the film?
So, my friends, there you have it….yet ANOTHER elusive prop from our favorite 00 agent.
If anyone can provide further information on this please contact me…it’s driving me CRAZY!!!!
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
As we all know, several real-life items made their way into Q-Branch and these real-life counterparts are, in some cases, very elusive.
Case in point is this particular item...the piton firing gun used by Bond in "Diamonds are Forever"
Very few photos of the actual screen-used prop have ever been seen. The still photographs of Connery aiming/shooting it are never clear enough to see it clearly. Even screen captures rarely show the entire pistol.
The first time I saw this was in Lee Phieffers great book "The Incredible world of 007" Page 171 shows a photo of it amongst other props from the film. However, it's dark enough not to be able to ID the actual gun.
The next time I saw this prop was when I visited Desmond Llewelyn’s home.
It was one of the many iconic props entrusted him to carry (in the original screen-used attaché’ case) to the various James Bond exhibitions he often attended.
It wasn’t exactly in the most pristine of condition as Desmond had a habit of simply throwing the props he carried around into the attaché ‘unprotected and it all rattled around as he traveled from place to place. If you ever saw photos of the interior of the case you know understand why it’s in its current condition.
At various times, Desmond had the following props “Banging” around in there:
FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE “Beeper”
THUNDERBALL Nikonos underwater camera
YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE Gyrojet bullet
DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER Piton fun and Piton with rope
DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER “Bang” pistol from deleted scene.
DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER Finger trap
DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER Magnetic ring
SPY WHO LOVED ME Corgi Lotus
FOR YOUR EYES ONLY Walther PPK
LIVING DAYLIGHTS Phillips Key ring
Anyway, let’s get back to the piton gun….
I noticed that the 4 ½ inch long x 1 inch diameter barrel had the only markings stamped into the top. It said “Harrington & Richardson Arms Co. – Worchester, MA USA”
The rest of the gun was unmarked and obviously made of blued steel. I noticed that the hammer had the tip broken off (No doubt to its slamming around inside the attaché’ case)
and that the hammer could not be cocked. It appeared that something was jamming it from moving. I then noticed that a steel pin was protruding from a hole and, when I moved the hammer, seemed to slightly move. I pointed it out to Steve who quickly took out his Leatherman tool and plucked the pin out. Desmond turned to see him do this and said “What are you doing!!” I quickly explained that we were simply repairing the pistol and repositioning the pin into its proper location. After we reinserted the pin in the other hole the pistol worked perfectly. Desmond was very impressed with our knowledge of the prop and said “We should have you both working with us at Q-Branch”
Upon returning home I tried to track down the pistol armed only with photographs and markings. Well…easier said than done. Harrington & Richardson had gone out of business so my only other source was to search through gun magazines and newspapers.
Remember that this was prior to the availability of the internet.
One day I spotted an ad for the barrel that had the correct markings and matched the one in the photo!!! It stated that it was manufactured by H&R for the British army. I quickly purchased it…just in case. I then proceeded to take both the barrel and my photo to various gun shows. I approached several collectors of flare guns (as that is what it appeared to be) to no success!! I contacted collectors and various gun magazines and sent photos along with the meager information I had. Again, no luck!! No one could recognize it!!! (But, thinking I owned it, all wanted to buy it) I suspect that either it was either a case of their truly not recognizing it or perhaps not telling me what it was due to their recognizing it as an extremely rare version they wanted to add to their collection. (Collectors sometimes do that…LOL)
I recently ran across an ad selling the Harrington & Richardson MK VI Lanyard gun and guess what…it had the same barrel and markings. Unfortunately, that’s where the similarity ends. The remaining part looked nothing like the film prop.
Some other fans have stated that perhaps it was another item built by the prop department for the film. Well, I had it in my hand and I can tell you…if the prop department made it then they must be qualified gunsmiths as this was built as many real firearms I’ve ever handled. There were no rough markings at all this was precise machining!! Another reason I believe it to be a real-life item is that the internal mechanism functioned flawlessly (after we fixed it…LOL) Why would the prop maker bother to go through the trouble of designing and making it fully functional for only the brief times it appeared in the film?
So, my friends, there you have it….yet ANOTHER elusive prop from our favorite 00 agent.
If anyone can provide further information on this please contact me…it’s driving me CRAZY!!!!
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
Comments
MG
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
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thanks for the info Ed.. great stuff and amazing pictures
www.freewebs.com/scaramangasgoldengun
www.facebook.com/QuartermasterProps
We do see a flash when Connery fires the piton into the building as well as when he manages to give Blofeld the worst headache in his life!!!
As mentioned, the hammer was a single-action in that you could **** it manually then fire it by depressing the trigger.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
C'mon, let's see it...don't tease us like that. As you see, I've posted pics of my props in prototype or in-progress. Don't give is the old "I want to wait until its finished" excuse.
By the way, don't tell us you're if going to make it fire anything as I don't won't to bog down this posting as well...LOL
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
whether the power from a .22 blank could fire the piton though, i dunno. i guess its possible, and i seem to recall connery getting quite a bit of recoil from it.
now from experience, a .22 gives very little kick, something conners should have been able to handle, so who knows, maybe we do actually see on screen a real piton gun, really firing?
with the chamber being made for .22, and a makers name etc, imo, this could be a real piton gun, or possibly a flare pistol?
looks alot like a very flare to me ed.
MG
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
your DAF piton gun is actually this;
http://www.edgeclassifieds.com/browse/listing-27671.html
its a Harrington & Richardson MK VI flare gun, made by Webley and Scott, a famous british gunsmiths.
it's used to fire flares, and by the looks of it, the props dept have fitted the barrel with a special chamber to take the piton spike.
so yes, its a real flare gun, converted by the props dept to hold a piton.
hope that helps.
MG
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
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and yes my replica will fire a bolt.. and I am going on holiday to Vagas next year and I am going to scale one of the grand Hotels with it..... wish me luck Guys
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If you look closely you'll see that those are the same photos I posted above....
Re-read what i wrote about recently running across those photos.
I do agree that it appears to be a flare gun as I do not think a .22 would not be able to exert enough energy to not only fire but imbed a piton.
If it's not a flare gun it very well could have been a lanyard gun used to fire a thin line so as to draw a more stout rope. This was sometimes used in the Navy for crossing from ship to ship while at sea.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
"LOL...Good one, Mick.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
my reason for thinking this is that alot of arms around the world get made under licence, and slight differences do occur.
an exmple of this is the bren gun from ww2. made under licence across the globe, there are differences between them.
maybe your flare gun was made under licence and had a few changes made?
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
this old russian flare gun reminded me of the DAF piton gun when i came across it searching a long time ago for the FRWL very pistol that Bond uses in the boat chase etc ...
http://www.bowersweapons.com/100_3349.JPG
are you going to use the barrel you have got Ed.. and make the rest yourself and make a replica. ?
minigeff could be right .. maybe the props department contacted the company who made the flare gun with same barrel and had them make a one off with a different design of frame and function .. well look at the quality of the original screen used Golden Guns.. they were made to an art gallery standard .. by a silversmith Rose.. meaning the props department went outwith EON to get it made to a higher standard.. so maybe that was the case with the piton Gun...
unless it was that barrel you have ed modified.. into a different flare gun's frame from a different product
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You could be right...anything is possible. As I said before, I agree with minigeff in that I believe it to be an actual flare or lanyard launching gun that was adapted for film use. It is also possible, as he stated, that Webley had a hand is making it as the barrels were made for use by the British Army.
The photo showing the front of the barrel clearly shows the insert that was installed to properly hold the piton. If you take notice...there are two slots on either side of the vertical space. That is wherer the lanyard, attached to the rear of the prop piton, slid in so as to not obstruct the piton itself.
Yes, I had originally planned to use the barrel I (thank goodness) purchased to use on a fabricated replica.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
That old Russian flare gun, in case you don't recognize it, was the same one used by Brosnan to bring down the Multi Saw-bladed helicopter in TWINE.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
it was hanging on the wall of one of the dock / huts... in Zukovsky's
caviar factory..
well spotted Ed... good stuff.
www.freewebs.com/scaramangasgoldengun
www.facebook.com/QuartermasterProps
By the way, I've been adding more of my prop replicas over on the "ED MAGGIANI COLLECTION" thread. Make sure you check them out as well as here as I'll keep posting more and more and more photos!!!!!
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
are you going to be re launching 'The Spy Boys ' website ?
www.freewebs.com/scaramangasgoldengun
www.facebook.com/QuartermasterProps
The entire site will have a new look to it and several photos will be added to various sections.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
It's simple now...all I have to do is build a gun around it....:))
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
I believe that the prop features a H&R flare gun barrel, converted to fire a piton via a .22 blank.
The trigger group of that prop looks to me like part of an old semi-auto pistol, possibly an Astra or Star. Could probably tell more about it if you have a picture of the "gun" without the human hand around it.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
I now feel very confident that the frame of this prop began life as a semi-auto pistol. Note that the left side of the frame features the letter "F" just where it would be on a semi auto pistol, when the safety has been moved from the "up" or safe position to the down or "fire" position.
This is my Bond Beretta, note the similiar trigger and placement of the pin holding it in. Most telling is the "S" for safe, the safety latch covers the "F" in my photo. Of course your prop gun was not made from a Beretta, but I am sure it was cobbled up from a similarly designed pistol.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
I think you may be experiencing a problem in seeing my posting. You had mentioned in the AR-7 posting that you could only see only a portion of a photo I had posted. In this case, I don't think you are able to see the entire first part of my posting.
The very first posting shows the entire gun unobstructed by my holding it. I also state that it's an H&R barrel and further down I concur that its fitted to fire a .22 blank.
Try re-loading or possibly restarting your computer.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
Yes I did restate some of the previous conclusions about the prop. But I did idenitfy the frame as having been a semi-auto pistol in a previous life. That was the main point I was trying to get across.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
KUDOS to you for noticing the similarity of the Beretta receiver to the receiver of the Piton gun.
It's scary close!!!
That would explain the look of a machined firearm as opposed to something scratch-built by the prop department. I, wholeheartedly, agree with your observations.
I do think they cannabilized both a Beretta style pistol and the H&R Flaregun and customized the difference between the two.
WELL DONE!!!
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
I just did a quick, dirty photoshop and it seems it fits pretty good. I really think they may have used the Beretta and, with a little bit of propmaker magic, turned it into this...
Ed
TheSpyBoys. com
the spyboys Facebook page
fantastic guys... so happy this has been solved.. makes my
life a lot easier now..
good stuff. and looking at your quick photoshop mock up there Ed.. its very clear that the mystery has been solved...
so it was made by the prop department then .. also ..
whats the deal with the TRICK GUN from DAF that Wint / Kidd used to kill shaddy tree..
its like a canibalised.. air pistol / luger / wembly / walther lp 53... with a thick mouldy canister as the silencer and flag compartment...
do you think it was Bond's old Barreta that the prop department / Q branch canibalized .. into the Piton gun
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Oh sure...especially when WE do ALL the work....LOL
Seriously, it will make it easier for me to replicate this prop by converting a replica Beretta and adapting it to fit the H&R barrel.
Again...BIG thanks for 7289's observations...You get to claim the prize for ID'ng this prop.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
Do you have a good shot from this and have an idea, how it has been made?
I have the Promo Philips Keyfinders - of course - but they are far away from being screen accurate as you surely know.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I'm sorry...I should have been more specific...
Desmond only carried around the replica promo as well.
(In fact, as he had 2 of them...he gave one to me)
I'm guessing the original was too delicate to give to him as long as the promo one was available.
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com
the spyboys Facebook page
Impressive photoshopping,
Just to be clear, the Beretta .25 - whose picture I posted is way to small to be the pistol from which the prop was put together.
From the size of the prop in human hands, and the position of the various holes in the frame, it was likely a Spainish pistol, and anywhere from a .32 to a 9 mm caliber. Spainish arms companies were very prolific, and cranked out tons of this type of handgun from before WW1 all the way thru WW2.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond