26

Re: Spectre, one year later

Miles Messervy wrote:
walther p99 wrote:
James Suzuki wrote:

The score is superb and when Bond shoots the Helicopter down with a Walther, I had a huge grin on my face.

That's Interesting, seeing as these two things are among the most hated aspects of the film.

I have no problem with Bond shooting the chopper down with his PPK. It's a Bond movie, after all. The score, however, was a huge problem. Other than the music when Bond was walking on the rooftops in Mexico City, the gunbarrel music, and Lucia's theme, it was all forgettable. Skyfall's score certainly wasn't a landmark in the series, but I thought it was much better.

Yeah there were certain tracks like the rooftop walk cue and the unreleased Q-Lab music that hinted at a proper Bond score but its mostly rehashed SF material and bombastic excess. I also think SF's score was much better, it was less fussy and fit the tone of the film better.

27

Re: Spectre, one year later

SP is a brilliant Bond movie up there with OHMSS and FRWL. Cannot understand all the hate for it. But as OHMSS has grown in stature over the decades so will SP.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

28

Re: Spectre, one year later

I watched it again last night and can say I enjoyed it just as much as the first time, which is to say, better than Skyfall and Quantum of Solace but less than Casino Royale.  It holds up well as a genuine Bond film, which also proves that Craig has the presence to carry an even better entry in this regard should they ever figure out how to make one.

The biggest weakness remains -- an underwhelming third act that begins once they're at the lair, which itself underwhelms.  Mendes as a director likes to do that.  He somehow thinks smaller when the film should be bigger make it more intimate without properly contextualizing why that doesn't work in a Bond film.  What's interesting is how what so many critics think are weaknesses here were praised in Skyfall, which also has an underwhelming climax.  But Spectre doesn't suffer from the derivative nature of Skyfall (The Dark Knight meets Straw Dogs) nor its narrative illogic. 

Where Spectre suffers is in the reluctance to fully commit to being a big budget Bond entry.  What's remarkable is that it cost twice as much as Casino Royale but often looks and feels even smaller than that film.  This is entirely on Mendes, as his films are trademarked with exactly this approach.

Skyfall, for all the praised character development, could easily have been a generic action film -- wounded warrior faces his tortured past to right a current wrong.  Spectre, on the other hand, traffics more in what the Bond films were known for -- facing a current enemy with grand schemes that could destroy the world.  The attempt to shoehorn the brother element into the story was a gigantic and unfortunately misstep, too, and completely unnecessary for the plot, but it only seems clumsier here than the whole Bond-Silva brothers with M the mother in Skyfall because Spectre does not fog things with sentimentality.

Spectre remains the superior effort to me over Skyfall and Quantum of Solace, though it still falls short of Casino Royale. Rather than insert trivia about the characters, the stories needs to be better constructed to show rather than tell.  Otherwise, they need to step up the scale of the films.  Spectre may have spent a ridiculous among of money in production, but it didn't show up as much on the screen.  That's its biggest failing.  All in or don't play.  And Spectre held back too much on what to show.

29

Re: Spectre, one year later

James Suzuki wrote:

The ending sequence really grew on me and I really really like these days. The score is superb and when Bond shoots the Helicopter down with a Walther, I had a huge grin on my face.

I *loved* that myself. Just so over-the-top BOND!!!  ajb007/martini

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

30

Re: Spectre, one year later

The most moronic thing in a crap movie full of moronic things.

31

Re: Spectre, one year later

Na, the "brother" angle was the worst aspect.

8 songs done, 3 in various stages of disarray for next album!

32

Re: Spectre, one year later

Barbel wrote:

Na, the "brother" angle was the worst aspect.

Same for me - it was just handled all wrong  ajb007/crap

Scouse not English
The higher the monkey climbs the more you can see its arse

YNWA: Justice For The 96

33

Re: Spectre, one year later

sniperUK wrote:

The most moronic thing in a crap movie full of moronic things.

Sorry you can't have as much fun watching it as I do!~ ajb007/lol

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

34

Re: Spectre, one year later

Barbel wrote:

Na, the "brother" angle was the worst aspect.

definitely agree

35

Re: Spectre, one year later

sniperUK wrote:

moronic

I'm sorry you don't get as much joy from watching Spectre as I do......! I still think its a great film !

There are a great many positive aspects that the film has had, lets take Mexico for one, just that pts scene, a year later is still inspiring the Mexican people and people all round the world !

How many of us dressed up in the p.t.s costume for Halloween and have been inspired to make the costume ! Collect the props,watches,clothes!

This year the  day of the dead celebration in Mexico was bigger and better then other years and  the people are saying that Spectre's involvement was such a great success  helping bring a new vibe , a new pride in Mexico's wonderful celebration. The film is being hailed as a contributing factor in this.

CANT SAY BETTER THEN THAT........A JAMES BOND FILM HAD A POSITIVE EFFECT ON A PEOPLE ...ON A COUNTRY AND LEFT A LASTING POSITIVE INSPIRATION TO SO MANY PEOPLE IN A WORLD OF TURMOIL AND UNPREDICTABILITY....NOT BAD IN THIS DAY AN AGE !!!! ajb007/smile  ajb007/smile  ajb007/martini  ajb007/martini

I think you should stop with the bombastic remarks and insulting the film every comment you make! I for one am getting a bit tired of it !......its time to remember Sniper UK.... we don't all like the same thing ...... But as Film makers the team at EON try to entertain and keep Bond alive and fresh in a much tougher environment and with more competition then its ever had to face before! I think they do very well...!

I would like to see you do better ! ajb007/smile  ajb007/smile  ajb007/smile
https://s17.postimg.org/66av2hxor/IMG_20161031_184710.jpg

36

Re: Spectre, one year later

Is this article old news for people? It's about Peter Morgan's ideas for what became SPECTRE and Purvis and Wade's first first drafts:

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/james- … o-skyfall/

37

Re: Spectre, one year later

Jameskenpo71 wrote:
sniperUK wrote:

moronic

I'm sorry you don't get as much joy from watching Spectre as I do......! I still think its a great film !

There are a great many positive aspects that the film has had, lets take Mexico for one, just that pts scene, a year later is still inspiring the Mexican people and people all round the world !

How many of us dressed up in the p.t.s costume for Halloween and have been inspired to make the costume ! Collect the props,watches,clothes!

This year the  day of the dead celebration in Mexico was bigger and better then other years and  the people are saying that Spectre's involvement was such a great success  helping bring a new vibe , a new pride in Mexico's wonderful celebration. The film is being hailed as a contributing factor in this.

CANT SAY BETTER THEN THAT........A JAMES BOND FILM HAD A POSITIVE EFFECT ON A PEOPLE ...ON A COUNTRY AND LEFT A LASTING POSITIVE INSPIRATION TO SO MANY PEOPLE IN A WORLD OF TURMOIL AND UNPREDICTABILITY....NOT BAD IN THIS DAY AN AGE !!!! ajb007/smile  ajb007/smile  ajb007/martini  ajb007/martini

I think you should stop with the bombastic remarks and insulting the film every comment you make! I for one am getting a bit tired of it !......its time to remember Sniper UK.... we don't all like the same thing ...... But as Film makers the team at EON try to entertain and keep Bond alive and fresh in a much tougher environment and with more competition then its ever had to face before! I think they do very well...!

I would like to see you do better ! ajb007/smile  ajb007/smile  ajb007/smile
https://s17.postimg.org/66av2hxor/IMG_20161031_184710.jpg

ajb007/cheers

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

38

Re: Spectre, one year later

One little visual Image from Spectre  that I love. Is right at the end in a montage of shots
Showing London in the early morning.  An old Union Flag is blowing in the breeze, it's edges
Tattered, and very worn.
  Can't help feel this symbolises many things, from the Country itself after battling so many
Things, is still standing, still Great Britain ! ajb007/martini  ..... Bond after many missions is still around.
MI6 after many attacks, is still there, etc.

39

Re: Spectre, one year later

Jameskenpo71 wrote:
sniperUK wrote:

moronic

I'm sorry you don't get as much joy from watching Spectre as I do......! I still think its a great film !

There are a great many positive aspects that the film has had, lets take Mexico for one, just that pts scene, a year later is still inspiring the Mexican people and people all round the world !

How many of us dressed up in the p.t.s costume for Halloween and have been inspired to make the costume ! Collect the props,watches,clothes!

This year the  day of the dead celebration in Mexico was bigger and better then other years and  the people are saying that Spectre's involvement was such a great success  helping bring a new vibe , a new pride in Mexico's wonderful celebration. The film is being hailed as a contributing factor in this.

CANT SAY BETTER THEN THAT........A JAMES BOND FILM HAD A POSITIVE EFFECT ON A PEOPLE ...ON A COUNTRY AND LEFT A LASTING POSITIVE INSPIRATION TO SO MANY PEOPLE IN A WORLD OF TURMOIL AND UNPREDICTABILITY....NOT BAD IN THIS DAY AN AGE !!!! ajb007/smile  ajb007/smile  ajb007/martini  ajb007/martini

I think you should stop with the bombastic remarks and insulting the film every comment you make! I for one am getting a bit tired of it !......its time to remember Sniper UK.... we don't all like the same thing ...... But as Film makers the team at EON try to entertain and keep Bond alive and fresh in a much tougher environment and with more competition then its ever had to face before! I think they do very well...!

I would like to see you do better ! ajb007/smile  ajb007/smile  ajb007/smile
https://s17.postimg.org/66av2hxor/IMG_20161031_184710.jpg

Yeah the opening Mexico City scene is fantastic and I've never seen any complaints about it, Its most of the rest of the film that most people seem to not like.

40

Re: Spectre, one year later

I found it overly long. Bizarrely it was big on spectacle and short on drama. I like to see Bond thinking, even in the midst of action. It was mostly either long shots, or very tight closeups (possibly due to Daniel's injury )

I got the message

41

Re: Spectre, one year later

chrisisall wrote:
James Suzuki wrote:

The ending sequence really grew on me and I really really like these days. The score is superb and when Bond shoots the Helicopter down with a Walther, I had a huge grin on my face.

I *loved* that myself. Just so over-the-top BOND!!!  ajb007/martini

YEAH, DUDE! So good. Music is perfect in that moment as well.
It does bother me that SP and SF share a lot of the same music cues, but I do prefer SP soundtrack, beleiving Newman did step up for that score. For one thing, more Bond theme cues.
I do want David Arnold back for Bond 25 please!

“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming

42

Re: Spectre, one year later

James Suzuki wrote:

I do want David Arnold back for Bond 25 please!

You're not the only one, James.  ajb007/smile

8 songs done, 3 in various stages of disarray for next album!

43

Re: Spectre, one year later

Barbel wrote:
James Suzuki wrote:

I do want David Arnold back for Bond 25 please!

You're not the only one, James.  ajb007/smile

Not at all. ajb007/martini

Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.QOS 4.DN 5.GF/GE 6.SP 7.FRWL 8.TB/TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT

44

Re: Spectre, one year later

Hi I'm new on this forum having been a huge bond fan for over 20 years I watched spectre for the third time last night at home and as a huge fan I don't fully absorb a bond film when I first see it in the cinema as there is too much to take in .M y first impression however was that whilst I felt it was an overall good film and good bond film it unfortunately makes one view cr, QoS and SF in a different light , I can remember watching cr and QoS upon there debut and had no doubt that the organisation had to be spectre yet now I know it is it adds a little disappointment as I hoped it would be an entirely new type of organisation with a new name and goals than simply relying on old ideas bond films should be about looking forward not back as it is this which in my view had enabled the film series to flourish for 54 years not one bond film has lost money which is an enormous accomplishment for a film series of say 15 to 20 years never mind half a century. I was interested in listen to audience members leaving the cinema that first night and I heard one couple say that the film was not that good. Perhaps it is hard to feel good about a film on the high of sky fall. Upon watching the film at home for the first time I must admit there were several parts that I really enjoyed .The opening was brilliant although I felt the stunt with the upside down helicopter though filmed for real came off as looking as it it was not the case who remembers the car barrel in the man with the golden gun so perfect a real stunt he way it was filmed it came off looking faked when it certainly was not. I felt the titles were brilliant and music OK  I think the film could have benefitted from tighter editing I was watching scenes in the Americano hotel which could easily have been edited for a tighter a film. I actually enjoyed Chris waltz portrayal of bond and thought he was the best Blofeld since telly savalas again the ending seemed a little long and though bond films are more violent than the 60s and 70s I was not keen on the eye popping scene and thought it inappropriate as well as the drill scene at Blofeld base. I would have been tempted to have bought Mr white along for the end of the film than simply allowing his exit as it was. I felt that although this bond film was hugely expensive it did not  show as much on screen to say octopus'sy in 83 which for inflation would have been half the cost.this all said I enjoyed the film on the whole in terms of the Craig films casino royals is still one of the 6th best bonds although given another shot I would love Martin Campbell to direct Craig once more  to establish Craig in the established bonds with Connery and Moore.

45

Re: Spectre, one year later

to me skyfall and spectre are bad movies if you compare with casino royale.
this is the best movie of all james bond by daniel craig.

quantum of solace is a movie that every time i watch i like much more than the first time.

46

Re: Spectre, one year later

After seeing the film a few times the I've come to realise there are some action scenes that will always bother me on repeated viewings because they're stylized staging crosses the reality line too much for me personally.

One is the Rome car chase.  Having lived in Italy and stayed in Rome on weekends many times and at different times of the year, I found the chase scene to be almost like the hundreds of auto commercials that the marketing companies create that seem to only emphasize speed and scenery.  Ever notice how most show them racing through empty countrysides or deserts and even empty city streets (day or night) in every type of weather - as if this is the only way we are supposed to picture them?  That's how the Rome chase seems to me.  I never saw the city that devoid of people and traffic - and to stage the scene like that betrays it's reality for me.  Yes, I understand that it was Rome and that staging such a large set piece was logistically challenging.  However, they've done many similar scenes in other challenging cities in the past and were able to do them with traffic and pedestrians around.  Was Mendes trying to make the scene seem surrealistic?  It rather comes across that way for me.

Another was where Bond kills the two assassins sent to kill Lucia.  Did he arrive the very second they were about to shoot her?  If he had been there earlier to case the place out in order to know where he was going and where to hide in order to get a drop on the killers, then why not take them out then?  This would seem more like Bond's method to me.  He certainly would not have waited for them to shoot her before attempting to kill them.  This to me seems another situation where Mendes was going for style over logic.

Then there's the scene where Hinx get's knocked out in the plane/auto set piece.  Bond totall ignores him to talk to Madeleine without checking to see if he was actually dead.  Really??  I'm sorry -  I'm not a trained 00 or even Maxwell Smart, but if I were there that's exactly what I would have done first!  Please scriptwriters!  You can do better than this! 

The train fight - I enjoyed it and like the staging, but again, did everyone else jump off the train?  There is no security on a luxury train like this?  Would it have been so bad to show one or more guards appear after the fight starts and have Hinx take them out for the sake of a little reality?  It's one of the problems I always had with the one in FRWL.  As great an action set piece it is, I always wondered why no train personnel came running to investigate this obviously very loud destructive fight that many would have heard and immediately reported.  I know, it was a Fleming fantasy to begin with, and yet they could have had a porter or someone show up and either run away or be knocked out by Grant.

Well then there's the whole third act and of course destroying an actual historic real building in London.  Not sure what the point of it was since it's still there in reality and will probably be there for many many years to come.  What will they do in the future, blow up the clock tower or the Westminster Abby?  The Bond films aren't summer disaster movies showing the wholesale destruction of historic sites.  This scene totally let me down.

As much as I enjoy many parts of the film, the whole gets knocked down several pegs for me because of these scenes.  I think they bother me even more than the early films beginning with GF because after showing Bond inside Fort Knox battling Oddjob next to an atomic bomb, I realized they let the cat out of the bag and you were just supposed to go along for the ride.  However, the reboot took the series back to a gritty pre-GF reality, so trying to maintain that in SP while sticking in these stylized, surrealistic scenes just undermines that reality too much for me.

47

Re: Spectre, one year later

I understand your points,  and of course your opinion, the Rome chase would indeed have been more thrilling with other traffic and pedestrians about.
I've always assumed that Lucia would have attended a wake of some sort and bond arrived earlier, he takes a risk shooting them from behind as he couldn't be sure they would stand at such an angle that Lucia wouldn't be in his firing arc.
I can't really argue your other points,  it will be a pain having to avoid vauxhall cross in any London based scenes in future films,  and hinx really should have had a bullet to the head while he was unconscious,  it always slightly irks me that while coming out of the klinik bond only shoots the henchman in the leg? This wouldn't take him out of the game and he still had his gun,  a leg wound wouldn't stop him returning fire!

Last edited by Chriscoop (9th Dec 2016 20:57)

It was either that.....or the priesthood

48

Re: Spectre, one year later

Hi all, huge bond fan but fairly new to the site. Thought I would add to some of the great observations of the film on here.

For me SP is a huge missed opportunity. The film itself is very watchable to me if you don't take a lot of the obvious flaws too seriously. However, I do feel the same about the film as when I went to watch it first at the cinema.

The main story of this film is linking the previous 3 films with a very tenuous link (a ring linking every bad guy in the previous 3 films). To me this is just lazy story telling and when you spend however many millions on a film the last thing that should be compromised is the integrity of the film IMO! The franchise obviously secured the rights to the SP name and wanted to use It in some way but (as mendes did in SF) using bonds past and re inventing the story of bond is a very risky ploy when you consider the success of the series has been to allow the main character and his opponents to refresh for each film.

SF's link to bonds past is less risky and despite having its flaws the action and story is stitched together more effectively making the flow of the film much more enjoyable. Even bond emerging from a frozen Scottish loch without hypothermia to kill Silva doesn't ruin it.

For me in SP the Mexico scene is excellent. I didn't enjoy the Rome scene at all, it all felt too contrived. Mr white scene and hoffler good except the obvious lack of checking Hinx is dead. Train scene excellent, really feel bonds vunerability is shown here he is really on the ropes against a bigger more powerful opponent. The Blofeld lair starts well but ends far too abruptly meaning that the London scene is a little short on time. I otherwise enjoy the London finale other than its obvious flaws.
Allowing M, Q, and Moneypenny more screen time felt like a good move.Felt C's character not explored enough.

For me CR and SF are best in the Craig series with QoS and SP much weaker overall.

That being said, for me the DC era of films have been along with Connery the best in the series. I think DC has brought a ruggedness and realism to the bond role in general that is lacking in other eras. Bond seems much more fragile physically and mentally in his films making him a much for believable character. The costume design and feel of the film has changed for the positive in my opinion. Bond no longer dresses like my Dad and the physicality he has brought to the role are a huge achievement, bond feels like a 21st century spy! Having said that i would like to see bond do some actual spying in the films for a change, periscope in Russian embassy in Turkey in FRWL, springs to mind!

Hoping DC stays on for another outing!

This film should have been a defining moment in the DC era of bond but was tainted by a good story line ruined by lazy writing. This makes the films story feel very hollow and as a result the excellent acting, spectacular sets and in general good screenplay all fall flat. 6.2/10

And now we know what "C" stands for!

49

Re: Spectre, one year later

Excellent review and I agree with most of your points!

Instagram - welshboy1978

50

Re: Spectre, one year later

Well then there's the whole third act and of course destroying an actual historic real building in London.

But the building was set for demolition after the damage it sustained in Skyfall. It just came forward on the schedule a bit.