The return of Doctor Who (SPOILERS)

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  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,266MI6 Agent
    Number24 wrote:
    First I have to confess that I haven't read the rest of this topic. Norway is one of the few countries where Doctor Who never aired, but I have watched some seasons on DVD. While watching I started thinking how great it would be to have a female doctor. I presume this is far from a new idea, but I like the idea. I brainstormed some ideas (Emily Mortimer, Emma Watson, Helena Bonham Carter) but my favourite is Emma Thomson.

    Might as well have a female Bond too. In a word NO! Enough of this dicking around with established characters just to please the PC brigade.
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  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,595MI6 Agent
    Asp9mm wrote:
    Enough of this dicking around with established characters just to please the PC brigade.

    Oh, that's good!
    Really good, you've nailed it!

    This should be said in response to any Idris Elba comment here :D
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,620MI6 Agent
    To me it isn't about political correctness at all. I just think a female Doctor could be fun and interesting. Unlike Bond, the Doctor isn't about his sexuality or etnicity. As far as I know (and I admit I'm far from being a Doctor Who expert) the Doctor has never had any sexual relationship. The doctor can change very much when he regenerates, why not the gender? The Master regenerated into the Mistress, and the Doctor didn't have much problems believing it. The Doctor's core qualities, such as quriosity, sense of fun, bravery etc. are in no manner gender spesific. The Doctor is established, yes. But it has been established that the Doctor can change a lot. so why not a woman?
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,620MI6 Agent
    Here is an Stephen Moffat interview on the issue. I see it the same way as he does:

    http://zap2it.com/2015/07/doctor-who-female-doctor-steven-moffat/
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,266MI6 Agent
    Number24 wrote:
    To me it isn't about political correctness at all. I just think a female Doctor could be fun and interesting. Unlike Bond, the Doctor isn't about his sexuality or etnicity. As far as I know (and I admit I'm far from being a Doctor Who expert) the Doctor has never had any sexual relationship. The doctor can change very much when he regenerates, why not the gender? The Master regenerated into the Mistress, and the Doctor didn't have much problems believing it. The Doctor's core qualities, such as quriosity, sense of fun, bravery etc. are in no manner gender spesific. The Doctor is established, yes. But it has been established that the Doctor can change a lot. so why not a woman?

    The Doctor has and always will be a man, he has a granddaughter who accompanied him through several adventures and lived with him for years after he stole the TARDIS. He also had a mother and a father. No Gallifreyan had ever swapped sexes before Moffat came on board and started messing with the numbering and amount of Doctors there had been, as well as making other radical changes just so he could stamp his name on DW history that would have to be picked up by the next show runner. This is what is annoying about Moffat, he is re-writing the character to put his stamp on the series history with total disregard for the original character. TimeLords don't switch gender. The Master is a body thief as has been revealed before after he ran out of regenerations. This is why Capaldi has had enough as the series has gone away from the direction he loved when he was growing up. It's no different to making Superman, Bond, Robin Hood or Spiderman a woman. It's silly and it's not what the character is.
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  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,620MI6 Agent
    You may have a point about Moffat. I have only seen Doctor Who episodes made by Moffat and that may have influenced my views. I still believe the Doctor is different from the other famous characters you mentioned because the Doctor regenerates. Funnily enough I was more ready for the "Not that debate again ..... this is old!" than this reaction :))
    Just goes to show how wrong I can be :D
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    .... and indeed, How Often ! :p :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,266MI6 Agent
    Yeah, the Doctor regenerates when his body becomes damaged or old. But he doesn't change sex, species or lifeform, anymore than Wolverine does when he heals quickly. The Hulk changes, but he doesn't change into a woman on the way back. That'll be the next thing.

    The Doctor has been established for 52 years now, with clear rules as to who he is. He is an honourable man, selfless who always does the right thing. Even that simple rule Moffat is changing, by turning him into a liar and a less straightforward, darker character. Moffat insists that the companions are the heroes, not the Doctor, as they steer him in the right direction and put him on the right path. Now surely that is very very wrong. Up until Moffat, this was exactly the opposite as the Doctor was the one defining light we looked to in the series, that is why he stole the TARDIS and ran, as he wanted out of the TimeLords ethos of only watching, observing and not getting involved. He wanted to do the right thing and step in.
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  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,620MI6 Agent
    While much of what you write makes sense, I still don't see how Doctor Who is defined by his masculinity or indeed gender. My impression of him is almost asexual. I don't think Bond should change his etnicity and a female Bond is a horrible idea. I believe the Doctor is different. To me he is in no way defined by his etnicity or gender. I still think he should be "British", simply because the show is British in so many ways.
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,266MI6 Agent
    I know what you mean, but you've only seen Moffat's series. There's another 48 years of Doctor Who before him, not to mention hundreds of books, radioplays and audiobooks. TimeLords do marry, the Doctor had children and then at least one grandchild. It would be very odd if they changed gender throughout. One day you've got a wife, the next day you wake up and there's a bloke stroking your leg. It doesn't make any sense at all in the history of the character, anymore than it does in any other established and defined character, regeneration or not. Rowan Atkinson wrote a comedy sketch about just such a scenario, because it was so ridiculous. And now the PC brigade want it to happen, just because it's the new cool thing and splendidly out there and different. They need to stop messing about just because they think they can. It would be disastrous.
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  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,574Chief of Staff
    Asp9mm wrote:
    The Doctor has and always will be a man....

    Erm....not according to the new series :p
    YNWA 97
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,620MI6 Agent
    Asp9mm wrote:
    I know what you mean, but you've only seen Moffat's series. There's another 48 years of Doctor Who before him, not to mention hundreds of books, radioplays and audiobooks. TimeLords do marry, the Doctor had children and then at least one grandchild. It would be very odd if they changed gender throughout. One day you've got a wife, the next day you wake up and there's a bloke stroking your leg. It doesn't make any sense at all in the history of the character, anymore than it does in any other established and defined character, regeneration or not. Rowan Atkinson wrote a comedy sketch about just such a scenario, because it was so ridiculous. And now the PC brigade want it to happen, just because it's the new cool thing and splendidly out there and different. They need to stop messing about just because they think they can. It would be disastrous.

    I'll be honest (just this once :D ) an admit I didn't know much of this ...
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    I love Dr Who, new and classic. If they do try a female Dr
    I hope it's an older lady and not some teenager.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,620MI6 Agent
    I'm going ofline for the evening now. tomorrow I'll claim I was drunk during one or more of my posts this evening (in spite of being a teetotal :v )
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,266MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Asp9mm wrote:
    The Doctor has and always will be a man....

    Erm....not according to the new series :p

    Exactly Moffat needs to go, he's the one that is turning Sherlock into a parody of itself as well, and it's time he went. Luckily Sherlock has Mark Gatiss to stop him going too far.
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  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,620MI6 Agent
    I love Dr Who, new and classic. If they do try a female Dr
    I hope it's an older lady and not some teenager.
    ''

    I agree. Casting a young hottie would be the worst way to make the Doctor female (If at all ...)
    I know I mentioned Emma Watson eariler, but thinking back she's too young.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    He's back tonight at 19:40, BBC 1 {[]
    ( sadly due to work, I'll watch it Sunday morning on the i-player )
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,574Chief of Staff
    I'll be watching this later with my son...I think I like it more than him now :D
    YNWA 97
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    To be honest, I didn't think it was a fantastic opening episode, still
    Enjoyed it though and what an ending ! -{ can't wait till next week. :)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,833Chief of Staff
    Yeah, it was a bit cluttered, but it was fun. . .and I was happy to see Julian Bleach back as Davros--of all the actors to play him, he's the only one who seems to make him a character and not just a creepy face!
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34307519
    Sadly the viewing figures weren't great :# , still early days.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,574Chief of Staff
    Yeah...a bit hit and miss...but a great premise...still enjoyed it though...but I see the viewing figures weren't very good !
    YNWA 97
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,266MI6 Agent
    edited September 2015
    This sums it up for me.

    OK, you may want to switch off here, but I've watched it twice now and need to vent because I have such mixed feelings for this story. Sorry, this is a proper (but fair) rant without paragraphs! So overall I'd give it a 5/10, and there's lots of good there. Every single actor is top notch, every single one, with Julian Beech and Peter Capaldi really shining. I like the red Supreme so I'm happy that's back, UNIT was on form and the Skaro civil war was nicely realised. The issues however are two fold. Firstly, there was no plot..... So, grab the Master, Clara and The Doctor only to discover Davros is on the way out yet again and generate the cliffhanger paradox. Could have been done in 20 minutes. The rest was bullshit (how many times has The Doctor gone into hiding as some terrible legend in the last 5 years??) In that time we could have actually seen the Daleks, the city, Davros or some of the Doctor's side of the story. Secondly, it was immature. Do we really want to randomly see Missy's face come out of a computer, or hear about Dalek balls and watch them being suggestively tickled, or hear random musical pieces from most of the cast at various points? Do we need Clara to be all know-it-all and do we care that Davros has some snake pet pointless weirdo? And how long can Moffat insult the viewer? Teasing them about the Doctor being a "little girl" so overtly pushing an agenda it's detrimental to the show. The Dalek City looks less convincing at than it did 52 years ago and this sudden relationship between The Doctor and The Master is complete bullshit. If their 70s forms were in the room Pertwee would bitch-slap Capaldi straight into looking like Idris Elba and Delgado would slowly strangle Missy with a mildly satisfied smirk. AND SHE/HE IS NOT THE DOCTOR'S OLDEST FRIEND.

    However my biggest issue is the over-used trope 'Doctor knows he's going to face a baddie so hides and prepares for his LAST DAY!!!!!! OMG'. 10 did it before his regeneration, 11 did it before his seeming death by the lake, now 12 is doing it to avoid a chat with Davros. Getting boring. On top of that you have everyone dying. But you don't care anymore because it's been done so many times now in the last five years that you know it isn't true. At this point who would care or if the Doctor got blasted? Not many I'd wager. We've seen that a few times too 8-)
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  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,574Chief of Staff
    Asp9mm wrote:
    This sums it up for me.

    So, grab the Master, Clara and The Doctor only to discover Davros is on the way out yet again and generate the cliffhanger paradox. Could have been done in 20 minutes.

    I agree that it could have been...but it's an easy way to get a couple of episodes out of it....

    I agree with most of your other gripes too -{
    YNWA 97
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    After watching it, I watched a few of the Matt Smith episodes on Netflix.
    Bloody hell, I'd forgotten how good he was. :)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Smithers500Smithers500 Spectre IslandPosts: 1,187MI6 Agent
    Finally got around to seeing this...

    Great opening - rubbed my hands in anticipation for a great episode but then downhill all the way.

    The Doctor and a guitar?! On a tank?! In some unspecified point of time in Earths history - what was all that about??!

    Capaldi is a great actor but what is it with these self indulgent scripts that are just alienating viewers - it's no wonder **** Factor knocked it for six in the ratings!

    My wife is a great barometer for Who - put an episode like Fathers Day or Blink and she's hooked - contrast that with this drivel or Let's Kill Hitler and she's off!

    I think it's time for Moffat and the writers to remember what made the new Who so popular instead of getting nostalgic for what caused it to be cancelled in the 80's...
    Japanese proverb say, "Bird never make nest in bare tree".
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    Second part, was much better. -{ plenty of peril and a few
    Questions answered. Next weeks looks very good.
    I really enjoy Missy as a character, she gets some great lines
    Her checking the depth of a tunnel, had me laughing out loud. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,574Chief of Staff
    Won't get to see this episode until much later in the week...I'm glad you said it picks up though...
    YNWA 97
  • Smithers500Smithers500 Spectre IslandPosts: 1,187MI6 Agent
    Yes, part 2 was much more like it! Missed a great way for Clara to exit though in my opinion (those who saw the episode will no doubt know what I mean!)
    Japanese proverb say, "Bird never make nest in bare tree".
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,833Chief of Staff
    Just watched it on my trusty DVR. Once again, Julian Bleach OWNS Davros--no spoilers, but what he did with the character deserves some kind of award. And Dalek sewers. . .that was some kind of twisted genius in coming up with them. . .
    Vox clamantis in deserto
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