LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
edited November 2008
Anyhoo...just caught the titles sequence from a youtube grab...Wow B-)
I love it. It's cool, it has attitude, it's both modern and nods back to stuff like YOLT and OHMSS...really great! I'd been led to believe it was rubbish; go figure! And yes, the theme works for me---especially over these fantastic titles. I think I've gotten a crystal-clear vision of how the whole thing is going to play out...and I'm greatly heartened.
Forster has said he intended QoS to be as a bullet fired from a gun...indeed B-)
So, sorry, all
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
saw it loved it. differnt to cr but still bond loved the action loved the music not the best song but we had them with dame shirley and louie armstrong, loved the subtle humour when m was going on about her bodygaurd who was a traitor she was holding an ashtray she had bought him for xmas she was saying how she so misjudged him and bond replied he didnt smoke pure class. there are afew niggly mistakes like bond being in a differnt suit to what he was wearing at the end of cr but you will find mistakes in the whole series on the whole a good if different bond film not as good as cr frwl but not that far behind them. i personnely love the new direction of bond i hope bond 23 and 24 carry on this way oh and a final note i think it tied up alot of loose ends from cr
Anyhoo...just caught the titles sequence from a youtube grab...Wow B-)
I love it. It's cool, it has attitude, it's both modern and nods back to stuff like YOLT and OHMSS...really great! I'd been led to believe it was rubbish; go figure! And yes, the theme works for me---especially over these fantastic titles. I think I've gotten a crystal-clear vision of how the whole thing is going to play out...and I'm greatly heartened.
Forster has said he intended QoS to be as a bullet fired from a gun...indeed B-)
So, sorry, all
That's fantastic news Loeffs! It's unfortunate that some people haven't liked Quantum of Solace, and there are some who have repeated their complaints ad nauseum. There's nothing wrong with this of course, that is their right, however it might give you an inaccurate representation of the true reception of the film here in the United Kingdom and in Europe generally. As we have noted it has broken records in the UK, and from what I have read the initial returns in France have been superb (and better than Casino Royale). Whether it will hang around for as long as Casino Royale did I don't know, however it appears that what is happening on AJB does not reflect the 'real world' whatsoever.
I also love the title sequence. As you say, it is different while also harking back to the past. I hope you like the film overall - it is a great film first and foremost, which redefines 'Bond' as much as Casino Royale did. For me it is a brilliant film about James Bond, rather than a brilliant Bond film™. I am glad the producers had the courage of their convictions.
That's fantastic news Loeffs! It's unfortunate that some people haven't liked Quantum of Solace, and there are some who have repeated their complaints ad nauseum. There's nothing wrong with this of course, that is their right, however it might give you an inaccurate representation of the true reception of the film here in the United Kingdom and in Europe generally.
I don't think he is being given an inaccurate portrait at all. The reception of the film here in Europe has been 50/50 (half like it, half dislike it) at best. And the box office data for France is not good at all?? Not sure where you might have read that it was superb, but the gross total isn't good. And it hasn't been good in Sweden either. In fact, the UK seems to be decidedly in "counter-trend" compared to the rest of Europe.
Since half like it and half don't (and that is at best) it's normal to have negative reviews together with the positive ones. (And the positive ones are repeated just as much as the negative ones, may I underline ) )). That said, I still have to talk to ONE person in my country and in France (have quite a few French friend) who liked the movie, and it's not like I pick people based on the fact they like Craig or not to be my friends ) ) ) My brother and four of his friends went to see it on Friday here and they were far from impressed. They thought it had no plot, that the action scenes were confused and just leading to an overall nothing.. and like many have said here, one hour into the movie they were just bored. Since Loeffs is determined to absolutely be estatic about anything Craig does, I'm pretty sure he will love it, critics or not. Giving an honest opinion implies not holding back on criticism. I honetly found the hype around CR was WAY too much and I think that is also why also people who loved CR are sorely disappointed by this one.
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
And the box office data for France is not good at all?? Not sure where you might have read that it was superb, but the gross total isn't good. And it hasn't been good in Sweden either. In fact, the UK seems to be decidedly in "counter-trend" compared to the rest of Europe.
European Quantum Opening Breaks Records
"Also breaking records was the film's opening in France: with $10.6M it was the largest three-day Bond opening and topped the five-day mark of CASINO ROYALE by 16 percent.
And in Sweden, the film's debut (with $2.7M) was the fourth highest ever, after LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING (2003), HARRY POTTER AND THE GOBLET OF FIRE and PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: AT WORLD'S END (2007).
With a high $18,181 per-location average for QUANTUM, business will also likely be brisk when the film expands into 57 more territories, including Germany, Italy and Russia."
And the box office data for France is not good at all?? Not sure where you might have read that it was superb, but the gross total isn't good. And it hasn't been good in Sweden either. In fact, the UK seems to be decidedly in "counter-trend" compared to the rest of Europe.
European Quantum Opening Breaks Records
"Also breaking records was the film's opening in France: with $10.6M it was the largest three-day Bond opening and topped the five-day mark of CASINO ROYALE by 16 percent.
And in Sweden, the film's debut (with $2.7M) was the fourth highest ever, after LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING (2003), HARRY POTTER AND THE GOBLET OF FIRE and PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: AT WORLD'S END (2007).
With a high $18,181 per-location average for QUANTUM, business will also likely be brisk when the film expands into 57 more territories, including Germany, Italy and Russia."
Except that total for France is not for France. But for France, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Monaco. And it's 10.88 million, not 10.6. The film debut in Sweden was a little over $1 mln. That number above is not the debut but the total gross from Friday (actually, no, from the release date, not just Friday) on. So the above article has quite a few inaccuracies. Sorry but I've been keeping a very close eye on this, and boxofficemojo is a fantastic tool to look at daily. There is a page with the specific breakdown that is updated everyday.
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
Of course QoS will break every box office record - on its first weekend. It doesn't matter if the film is good or not - it could be a 2-hour Ford commercial, and still it would have the most successful start of all Bond films to date. It's just a result of the gigantic marketing campaign.
But I doubt that QoS will surpass Casino Royale. The Craig novelty factor is gone, and many people who were disappointed with CR won't see QoS.
Many here think that CR's box office success shows that the "reboot" was the best that Bond could happen. But just remember that DAD (as horrible as it was) was the most successful Bond film before CR. A "traditional" Bond film would have been equally successful instead of CR. Taking into account that two Austin Powers films were even more successful than CR one could easily come to the conclusion that a less serious, less brutal approach could still be very successful in the 21st century.
And the box office data for France is not good at all?? Not sure where you might have read that it was superb, but the gross total isn't good. And it hasn't been good in Sweden either. In fact, the UK seems to be decidedly in "counter-trend" compared to the rest of Europe.
European Quantum Opening Breaks Records
"Also breaking records was the film's opening in France: with $10.6M it was the largest three-day Bond opening and topped the five-day mark of CASINO ROYALE by 16 percent.
And in Sweden, the film's debut (with $2.7M) was the fourth highest ever, after LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING (2003), HARRY POTTER AND THE GOBLET OF FIRE and PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: AT WORLD'S END (2007).
With a high $18,181 per-location average for QUANTUM, business will also likely be brisk when the film expands into 57 more territories, including Germany, Italy and Russia."
Except that total for France is not for France. But for France, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Monaco. And it's 10.88 million, not 10.6. The film debut in Sweden was a little over $1 mln. That number above is not the debut but the total gross from Friday (actually, no, from the release date, not just Friday) on. So the above article has quite a few inaccuracies. Sorry but I've been keeping a very close eye on this, and boxofficemojo is a fantastic tool to look at daily. There is a page with the specific breakdown that is updated everyday.
You see I read something similar in Variety. Not knowing much about the financial side of films I had been content to go along with what I assumed was a fairly reputable publication. For all I know you are correct that the film's performance "isn't good", although there appears to be some discord between that opinion and others from news and trade sources. Surely the magazine would look rather silly if Quantum's opening turned out to be a failure, which you seem to be suggesting it is in Europe? Of course, whether it lasts as long as Casino Royale is another matter - if I recall correctly (which I might not!) it was successful for a long time after it opened.
I have certainly found reaction to the film mixed, like the reviews (which are not uniformly negative). Some have loved it, some have liked bits of the film and disliked other bits and some have disliked it altogether. Most liked Craig's performance, though. And I do hope Loeffs and other Americans like the film for the film itself, and not because they are "determined to absolutely be estatic about anything Craig does"! For me the film is textured, atmospheric and sophisticated. I don't think it is particularly Bourne-like, being a much more classy affair with some gorgeous scenery. It has a subtlety and intelligence that requires the viewer to engage fully, rather than having everything spelt out. I think it is great, others don't. C'est la vie.
No wait don't misunderstand me. I am not saying it is a failure. I'm saying it isn't particularly good, big difference. ) ) I have never seen the specific site you linked so I'm not sure whether they're just inexpert or instead don't bother checking numbers (which would be worse). Boxofficemojo.com is always the best online source to look at numbers for movies, they are really good with it and have very interesting numbers if you have time to go look, even for past movies. And of course, Variety is always a good source, goes without saying. For the raw numbers, boxofficemojo in general tends to be the most accurate and most regularly updated.
And I didn't say that Europe thinks the movie sucks, I said the reaction is 50/50 at best, because the critics in Europe from the most important news outlets are in majority not giving good reviews. Comments from fans outside England, again mixed at best. I say this having read around quite a bit (thankfully I can read not only my language but English, French and German). The reviews in general are more negative than positive, with the exception of the UK where there is for example a definitely more positive review on the Daily Telegraph. And I'm guessing also a more positive reaction from fans. And it shows in the numbers the movie has at the box office, much higher in England (and in some countries the movie opened the same day as in England, so that's not the issue).
And of course, like with every Bond movie, some of us will like it and some won't. This one though happens to polarise the opinion a lot more than other ones, that's it. You loved it and I'm glad someone enjoyed it, trust me. {[] Not taking any delight in seeing people disappointed! As I said I think the hype around Casino Royale was WAY exaggerate, and I think that's also a reason why some are so disappointed by this one.
I didn't like it at all and it ranks very low in my Bond movies list. I find it horrible exactly because of the points you mentioned: I find it absolutely and completely UN-stylish UN-intelligent, UN-refined... and UN-Bondian. Cheap Bourne clone. Actually my brother who went to see it, and is a huge Bourne fan, said that it's outrageous to compare it to Bourne because the plot in Bourne is extremely well written, engaging and intelligent, while in this one it is...non-existent. Guess people can always quote this for the Bourne comparison and say "it's not true it's like Bourne!) ) ) Just like you said, c'est la vie.
That said, I repeat, Loeffs is determined to love anything Daniel Craig when it comes to Bond, so I'm pretty damn sure he will love it. His reaction to the titles (that I found ahem... I can't find a word that expresses enough negative judgement.. atrocious? ) )) is proof of it. If he liked those, I'm pretty sure he will be estatic about the rest. ) )
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
For me the film is textured, atmospheric and sophisticated. I don't think it is particularly Bourne-like, being a much more classy affair with some gorgeous scenery. It has a subtlety and intelligence that requires the viewer to engage fully, rather than having everything spelt out. I think it is great, others don't. C'est la vie.
Couldn't agree more. We read some critical posts complaining that QoS is all wham bam action with no characterisation; others saying it's boring with far too much characterisation. Some say Craig is the perfect Bond; others find him almost unwatchable.
I think it's great that we Bond fans form such a 'broad church' which can welcome those of similar interests but radically differing tastes.
Compare Dr No with, say, Die Another Day: other than the basic characters and premise, the films differ radically in style, pace, design, atmosphere and just about every other facet. Compare Dr No with QoS: both are films with James Bond 007 as central character who foils a villainous organisation's plot and helps out a vulnerable young woman who bears scars from earlier crimes. This latest film has much more in common with the original character and stories than most of its recent predecessors,
and indeed to continue to rely increasingly on jokes and gadgets in a "post-Austin Powers" world would seem more and more ludicrous. CR and QoS are well made films with many layers and deserve to be taken seriously, but they do respect the traditions, both literary and cinematic, from which they arise.
I to thought the title sequence was great, it fitted so well with the whole concept of the film. I even thought the title song fitted well even though as a stand alone track I thought it was awful.
On a separate note can I presume that Alessandra doesn't like the film?
For me the film is textured, atmospheric and sophisticated. I don't think it is particularly Bourne-like, being a much more classy affair with some gorgeous scenery. It has a subtlety and intelligence that requires the viewer to engage fully, rather than having everything spelt out. I think it is great, others don't. C'est la vie.
Couldn't agree more. We read some critical posts complaining that QoS is all wham bam action with no characterisation; others saying it's boring with far too much characterisation. Some say Craig is the perfect Bond; others find him almost unwatchable.
I think it's great that we Bond fans form such a 'broad church' which can welcome those of similar interests but radically differing tastes.
Compare Dr No with, say, Die Another Day: other than the basic characters and premise, the films differ radically in style, pace, design, atmosphere and just about every other facet. Compare Dr No with QoS: both are films with James Bond 007 as central character who foils a villainous organisation's plot and helps out a vulnerable young woman who bears scars from earlier crimes. This latest film has much more in common with the original character and stories than most of its recent predecessors,
and indeed to continue to rely increasingly on jokes and gadgets in a "post-Austin Powers" world would seem more and more ludicrous. CR and QoS are well made films with many layers and deserve to be taken seriously, but they do respect the traditions, both literary and cinematic, from which they arise.
We're having the Dr No discussion in the review with spoilers thread so I won't go on for too long, but... completely disagree. Find little to nothing in common between Dr No and QoS, especially as far as the leading man (ah, Sir Sean) and the whole "feel" of the movie is concerned. Won't even get into the action part, it's uncomparable. Aside from Daniel Craig that I will just never like as Bond, I could at least enjoy some real Bondian atmospheres in the movie, but I find those are just totally MIA in QoS. On top of not seeing Bond in the actor, I don't see anything Bondian in the style of the movie, and I think that's the main gripe the critics have, even those who love CR. They say exactly that unlike CR, this goes way too far from the Bond elements to be enjoyed. And I agree. In fact, I said even putting another actor that I truly like in the role of Bond wouldn't salvage this movie for me.
So there again, polarising. Which I don't find particularly good for a Bond movie. If it was a documentary, polarising is great. But not for a Bond movie that's supposed to be entertainment, thus should at the very least entertain all those who go. Some more, some less, but still entertain. This one seems to fail even in that very basic compartment, given the reaction. And for a Bond movie, I don't think it's good. Again, glad some seem to like it, at least someone is having fun. I need to wait until after the next one for my turn, so others may as well enjoy it truly in the meantime! ) )
On a separate note can I presume that Alessandra doesn't like the film?
I sense sarcasm here?? ) ) ) Hey, I have liked more or less all the Bond movies up until CR. I think I am absolutely allowed to have different feelings now. I loved Sean, I wasn't thrilled but I did like Roger Moore, I liked Timothy Dalton, I loved Pierce. (not counting Lazenby, sorry. )) So if after all these years of positive reaction there is ONE actor I don't like and one style I am not ok with, I think I am allowed, I've been VEEEEWY good so far! ) )
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
CR and QoS are well made films with many layers and deserve to be taken seriously, but they do respect the traditions, both literary and cinematic, from which they arise.
Amen to that! I like your link back to the originals - I suppose it wasn't until Thunderball that the pictures became 'James Bond films', as for me the first three (and OHMSS) are films about James Bond, a crucial difference. After that the formula kicked in, with departures here and there, but with the same basic structure intact. What I love about both Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace is that they hark back to those early films - they are films about James Bond, not mere regurgitations of a formula. QoS, in particular, is an incredibly brave film that has an enormous well of subtlety and depth, with a wonderful sense of character. Others, evidently, think the complete opposite.
That said, I repeat, Loeffs is determined to love anything Daniel Craig when it comes to Bond, so I'm pretty damn sure he will love it. His reaction to the titles (that I found ahem... I can't find a word that expresses enough negative judgement.. atrocious? ) is proof of it. If he liked those[/b], I'm pretty sure he will be estatic[/i] about the rest.
I liked the titles too! It is a shame you hated the film, it must be hard as a fan of James Bond to have a film you dislike so much. I suppose I felt similar after Die Another Day (which, incidentally, I did *not* find enjoyable), so I can appreciate how it must feel. As far as I am concerned though this is a revolution in Bond. Revolutions will polarise, and I don't see what the problem with a polarising film is (we cannot please everyone - as I say I found Die Another Day dire). For me at least, Viva La Revolution!
And it shows in the numbers the movie has at the box office, much higher in England (and in some countries the movie opened the same day as in England, so that's not the issue).
In this country, the movie opened one day later than in England.
And it shows in the numbers the movie has at the box office, much higher in England (and in some countries the movie opened the same day as in England, so that's not the issue).
In this country, the movie opened one day later than in England.
Thank you, good to not be the only foreigner here ) )
ETA: I apparently didn't get the joke at ALL?! ) ) Sorry, it's too complicated to start with UK and Ireland, GB and all the like ) )
I liked the titles too! It is a shame you hated the film, it must be hard as a fan of James Bond to have a film you dislike so much. I suppose I felt similar after Die Another Day (which, incidentally, I did *not* find enjoyable), so I can appreciate how it must feel.
I foud the second half of Die Another Day atrocious as well if that's any consolation? ) However, I very much enjoyed the first half. And, as emtiem also said elsewhere, I found DAD had at least more of a Bond feeling than QoS. At least I cared about Bond in DAD, here, I don't even see him. Boohoohoohooo.. just don't make me think...:# another three years at least before I see at the bare minimum a face I might like as Bond. It's too long. And if they keep going in this direction with Craig movies, and it seems like they will, I won't even be able to enjoy the movie per se.
Ok, whining over. Now I can focus on Qos again :v LOL
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
I honestly enjoyed DAD 1st half (sans title song, which is imho similar worse than QoS, infact I never thought that a title song could be worse than DAD, but AWTD did!) and I remember, that I have left the cinema very pleased after DAD, I was absolutely disappointed after QoS.
I am different to her when my judgement goes to DC, which I find brilliant, even he looked 10 yrs older than in CR.
I heartfully welcomed the reboot and revolution, which has been done by CR, can't see much of it in QoS.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I honestly enjoyed DAD 1st half (sans title song, which is imho similar worse than QoS, infact I never thought that a title song could be worse than DAD, but AWTD did!) and I remember, that I have left the cinema very pleased after DAD, I was absolutely disappointed after QoS.
I am different to her when my judgement goes to DC, which I find brilliant, even he looked 10 yrs older than in CR.
I heartfully welcomed the reboot and revolution, which has been done by CR, can't see much of it in QoS.
OH the roses, thank you! ;%
Oh yes I forgot the atrocious title song for DAD, agree on that one ) ) Forgot that detail, and thank you for reminding me LOL
Anyway yes it all boils down to taste here really.. I just find it really peculiar about this movie that it manages to not entertain people even. As others have said, they weren't entertained by DAD but I found that one far less polarising than QoS. WE basically all agreed that overall the movie wasn't good, despite a very good first half... the second half really made it horrible. The consensus on that one wasn't divided as it is on this one.. and the fact so many people find this one boring is astonishing to me. But hey, again, it's really a matter of personal preference.
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
DAD polarised me. I loved some bits of it, absolutely loathed and detested other parts.
The thing is, Brosnan may not be my all-time favourite Bond, but if I met him I'd still shake his hand and say, "Loved you as Bond". And I wouldn't be lying. I like all Bond films, all Bond actors. It's just - rather like Animal Farm - some are more equal than others
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
Since Loeffs is determined to absolutely be estatic about anything Craig does, I'm pretty sure he will love it, critics or not. Giving an honest opinion implies not holding back on criticism.
Alessandra, we've always gotten on well...and we always will...but I feel I have to tell you that I find this very disappointing, the implication that I won't give the film an honest review. I've said on countless forums that if I find the film to be lacking I'll say so...but the fact is that I've now seen about twenty clips (each a minute or less in length), the titles sequence and the gun barrel, and I'm very excited. I guess I should apologize for that ?:) In the week prior to it's opening in my country?? On a James Bond fansite???
Anyway, I've seen here that I can't say too much to anyone, by means of self-defence, without incurring wrath from above, so suffice to say...
Very disappointing indeed, and your essentially calling me dishonest is something of a game changer. Perhaps I'll just PM my review to a select few.
I honetly found the hype around CR was WAY too much and I think that is also why also people who loved CR are sorely disappointed by this one.
Not a universally-held opinion, I'm afraid. However, it is interesting to read reports elsewhere that indicate QoS isn't playing as well in Italy, that the reviews and word of mouth is overall more negative there than in other parts of Europe, such as Germany and France. Not something a dishonest person would report, but then there we are.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
...I repeat, Loeffs is determined to love anything Daniel Craig when it comes to Bond, so I'm pretty damn sure he will love it. His reaction to the titles (that I found ahem... I can't find a word that expresses enough negative judgement.. atrocious?) )) is proof of it. If he liked those, I'm pretty sure he will be estatic about the rest. ) )
...!
8-)
Maybe we won't, at that.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
...I repeat, Loeffs is determined to love anything Daniel Craig when it comes to Bond, so I'm pretty damn sure he will love it. His reaction to the titles (that I found ahem... I can't find a word that expresses enough negative judgement.. atrocious?) )) is proof of it. If he liked those, I'm pretty sure he will be estatic about the rest. ) )
...!
8-)
Maybe we won't, at that.
Loeffs... you seriously didn't get that I am JOKING about this?? Of course I know you will give a honest review! I'm being sarcastic here, I'm saying if you do like the titles that was one of the parts I found worse, I am sure you will be estatic about the rest, which is better than the titles (doesn't take much ) )). That is ALL that was meant! IT is MY judgement mixed with your reaction on purpose to joke about it ) That's really all there is to it. Including the fact you love DC and are determined to have a positive attitude... that is not an offense at all, or saying that you won't give an honest review, just that your honest review will be positive, that is it!! Didn't you see all the ) ) Around?? Come on! I've never doubted anybody's honesty here, and never would, least of all yours. Personal attacks have never been my style at all, and never will be, I don't get how you could even think for a minute I'd be doubting your honesty. It's sarcasm and nothing else... joking!! Don't become all gloomy and humorless like Craig's Bond? ) ) (it's again a joke!!)
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
This place - more than any other I've seen - folks take their Bond (whomever he may be) pretty dang seriously.
BLUE! Hi! How are you doing? Yes I think we're taking things too seriously here? LOL Better to move to planet blue? Though for me I guess planet Cavill or planet Jackman would do better ) )
I haven't heard your opinion. Did you enjoy QoS? (And I will be glad if you did )
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
You still dont get it do you. This is not a polarised dispute that breaks down along Party lines with a crude choice of either being for or against the 'new era'. I am all for the new era, and a move away from invisible cars to a more robust and darkly convincing Bond. I really rate CR very highly. That said I find no contadiction in feeling that QOS is a real let down and low point in the entire series and a waste of Daniel's talents, even allowing for the fact that matching or bettering CR was a tall order.
How do you account for the number of people who support and enjoyed the reboot, yet don't like QOS, or damn it with faint praise ?
I think I do get it...sorry about that!
I clearly stated, in this post and others, that enjoyment of QoS doesn't break down along party lines, as I'd previously envisioned---i.e., I said I was wrong:
I 'account for the number of people who support and enjoyed the reboot, yet don't like QoS, or damn it with faint praise,' by accurately taking note of the directorial issues (and a script likely affected by a writer's strike!), which you quoted above, yet apparently didn't bother to read 8-) I clearly stated there that people's differences about the new film are more complicated than party affiliations (which were created in a spirit of fun), which completely eludes you, sadly. Therefore, I honestly don't know what else you want from me.
Nowhere am I saying that you aren't entitled to your opinion, and yet you persist in coming round to take a swing at me for giving mine. Go and play with someone who agrees with you all the time, Mr. 'Decent Debate.'
Your ongoing hang-up with my posts rather proves something about partisanship, BTW. Who's the tribalist?
Is it too late to welcome you to AJB?
I'm afraid so B-)
But how about a Truce, as I have no interest in a war, and only got 'hung up' once I felt that by implication I had been unfairly branded a 'slagger'
I really do hope that you do post your review as I'm genuinely keen to see what you make of it & I'm sure that others are as well. I have said previously and meant it that I really do hope that you find more to enjoy than I could.
If you prefer I will not respond to or reference your text in any way. Your call.
Excellent! Truce! Good boys. Now we can have a laugh and go on discussing QoS. So Blue I missed your review? Maybe I didn't look carefully... but I don't see one here in the short ones though, and I've read the whole thread before posting..did you only publish it on planet blue??
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
Just wanted to add something that I found quite interesting that happened to me today.
I returned to work after a weeks break and of course the conversation in my office was my love of Bond and what I thought of the new film.
I shan't go on about my feeling for this wonderful film again but what did surprise me was the general feeling of satisfaction I heard from the rest of my colleagues that had seen it. It was also refreshing to hear comments along the lines of;
"It was great to see a Bond film without all those stupid gadgets"
"My wife usually hates Bond, but she liked it."
These are people who usually would grab a Bond film at Christmas and leave it at that, but now due to Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are actually interested in Bond and want to see more.
"Also breaking records was the film's opening in France: with $10.6M it was the largest three-day Bond opening and topped the five-day mark of CASINO ROYALE by 16 percent.
And in Sweden, the film's debut (with $2.7M) was the fourth highest ever, after LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING (2003), HARRY POTTER AND THE GOBLET OF FIRE and PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: AT WORLD'S END (2007).
With a high $18,181 per-location average for QUANTUM, business will also likely be brisk when the film expands into 57 more territories, including Germany, Italy and Russia."
Except that total for France is not for France. But for France, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Monaco. And it's 10.88 million, not 10.6. The film debut in Sweden was a little over $1 mln. That number above is not the debut but the total gross from Friday (actually, no, from the release date, not just Friday) on. So the above article has quite a few inaccuracies. Sorry but I've been keeping a very close eye on this, and boxofficemojo is a fantastic tool to look at daily. There is a page with the specific breakdown that is updated everyday.
You see I read something similar in Variety. Not knowing much about the financial side of films I had been content to go along with what I assumed was a fairly reputable publication. For all I know you are correct that the film's performance "isn't good", although there appears to be some discord between that opinion and others from news and trade sources. Surely the magazine would look rather silly if Quantum's opening turned out to be a failure, which you seem to be suggesting it is in Europe? Of course, whether it lasts as long as Casino Royale is another matter - if I recall correctly (which I might not!) it was successful for a long time after it opened.
I thought this was an interesting article given this previous discussion: Variety article. It is good to see the film doing so well; hopefully it can keep this up and do well in the United States as well. Not long to go folks!
These are people who usually would grab a Bond film at Christmas and leave it at that, but now due to Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are actually interested in Bond and want to see more.
A guy I work with has an evening job in a rather flash hotel bar. He told me the other day, that the previous evening, an elderly lady approximately in her 80s hobbled into the bar on her two sticks, and proclaimed that, after waiting her whole life, she had finally seen a 'proper Bond'.
I saw the film for the first time yesterday as i have been stuck abroad and I loved it. Yes there are points that I wasn't happy with such as unecaserry special effects but all in all this film in my view was more about Bond becoming Bond just like in CR.
Yes thhe villian was weak and you can see that there is definatley another chapter to follow as this film was about Bond developing more as a character. The plot could have been a lot deeper and some of the characters devloped much more.
For me Bond is now the true '00' we want to see and has only made me more excited about the next film. The next film will be the first that DC will be playing James Bond as most of us know him. That is why it frustrates me when i read comments that say this isn't a bond film. Techinically it isn't due to the nature of Bond.
I loved the gun barrel at the end it really worked for me telling us that bond is here!! The next one will surley start this way and I'm sure we will also see more humour as a more mature Bond will be potrayed. (ie won't kill every vilian he meets so quickly and more dry wit will be added)
I'm sure when I watch it again more things will jump out at me but all in all i can't wait for the next one!!
Excellent! Truce! Good boys. Now we can have a laugh and go on discussing QoS. So Blue I missed your review? Maybe I didn't look carefully... but I don't see one here in the short ones though, and I've read the whole thread before posting..did you only publish it on planet blue??
Hi Alle, nice to see you being your bad ol' self. {[]
Unfortunately I haven't seen it yet, I live in the states and we don't get it till Thursday at midnight (have my ticket already ). Gotta admit, I'm expecting a fine Bond film and one perhaps slightly better than CR - but we'll see. Love Craig in the role, and Forster is one of the better directors working today (I believe that's the first time in the series' history that could be said?). He consistently gets Oscar-quality work from his actors, and isn't afraid to cross genres. So, I'm very geeked to see this dude's take on Bond (honestly, even the bad reviews make it sound very Flemingesque even as the reviewer bemoans that lack of nudge-nudges and wink-winks, which on my Blue Planet having nothing whatsoever to do with Bond :007) ). Like with Campbell, I'm worried about the final mix, but from the huge biz QOS's doing, sure isn't a LTK. {:)
Comments
I love it. It's cool, it has attitude, it's both modern and nods back to stuff like YOLT and OHMSS...really great! I'd been led to believe it was rubbish; go figure! And yes, the theme works for me---especially over these fantastic titles. I think I've gotten a crystal-clear vision of how the whole thing is going to play out...and I'm greatly heartened.
Forster has said he intended QoS to be as a bullet fired from a gun...indeed B-)
So, sorry, all
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I also love the title sequence. As you say, it is different while also harking back to the past. I hope you like the film overall - it is a great film first and foremost, which redefines 'Bond' as much as Casino Royale did. For me it is a brilliant film about James Bond, rather than a brilliant Bond film™. I am glad the producers had the courage of their convictions.
I don't think he is being given an inaccurate portrait at all. The reception of the film here in Europe has been 50/50 (half like it, half dislike it) at best. And the box office data for France is not good at all?? Not sure where you might have read that it was superb, but the gross total isn't good. And it hasn't been good in Sweden either. In fact, the UK seems to be decidedly in "counter-trend" compared to the rest of Europe.
Since half like it and half don't (and that is at best) it's normal to have negative reviews together with the positive ones. (And the positive ones are repeated just as much as the negative ones, may I underline
"Also breaking records was the film's opening in France: with $10.6M it was the largest three-day Bond opening and topped the five-day mark of CASINO ROYALE by 16 percent.
And in Sweden, the film's debut (with $2.7M) was the fourth highest ever, after LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING (2003), HARRY POTTER AND THE GOBLET OF FIRE and PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: AT WORLD'S END (2007).
With a high $18,181 per-location average for QUANTUM, business will also likely be brisk when the film expands into 57 more territories, including Germany, Italy and Russia."
http://www.vfxworld.com/?sa=adv&code=3631a5a1&atype=news&id=25313
Except that total for France is not for France. But for France, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Monaco. And it's 10.88 million, not 10.6. The film debut in Sweden was a little over $1 mln. That number above is not the debut but the total gross from Friday (actually, no, from the release date, not just Friday) on. So the above article has quite a few inaccuracies. Sorry but I've been keeping a very close eye on this, and boxofficemojo is a fantastic tool to look at daily. There is a page with the specific breakdown that is updated everyday.
But I doubt that QoS will surpass Casino Royale. The Craig novelty factor is gone, and many people who were disappointed with CR won't see QoS.
Many here think that CR's box office success shows that the "reboot" was the best that Bond could happen. But just remember that DAD (as horrible as it was) was the most successful Bond film before CR. A "traditional" Bond film would have been equally successful instead of CR. Taking into account that two Austin Powers films were even more successful than CR one could easily come to the conclusion that a less serious, less brutal approach could still be very successful in the 21st century.
I have certainly found reaction to the film mixed, like the reviews (which are not uniformly negative). Some have loved it, some have liked bits of the film and disliked other bits and some have disliked it altogether. Most liked Craig's performance, though. And I do hope Loeffs and other Americans like the film for the film itself, and not because they are "determined to absolutely be estatic about anything Craig does"! For me the film is textured, atmospheric and sophisticated. I don't think it is particularly Bourne-like, being a much more classy affair with some gorgeous scenery. It has a subtlety and intelligence that requires the viewer to engage fully, rather than having everything spelt out. I think it is great, others don't. C'est la vie.
And I didn't say that Europe thinks the movie sucks, I said the reaction is 50/50 at best, because the critics in Europe from the most important news outlets are in majority not giving good reviews. Comments from fans outside England, again mixed at best. I say this having read around quite a bit (thankfully I can read not only my language but English, French and German). The reviews in general are more negative than positive, with the exception of the UK where there is for example a definitely more positive review on the Daily Telegraph. And I'm guessing also a more positive reaction from fans. And it shows in the numbers the movie has at the box office, much higher in England (and in some countries the movie opened the same day as in England, so that's not the issue).
And of course, like with every Bond movie, some of us will like it and some won't. This one though happens to polarise the opinion a lot more than other ones, that's it. You loved it and I'm glad someone enjoyed it, trust me. {[] Not taking any delight in seeing people disappointed! As I said I think the hype around Casino Royale was WAY exaggerate, and I think that's also a reason why some are so disappointed by this one.
I didn't like it at all and it ranks very low in my Bond movies list. I find it horrible exactly because of the points you mentioned: I find it absolutely and completely UN-stylish UN-intelligent, UN-refined... and UN-Bondian. Cheap Bourne clone. Actually my brother who went to see it, and is a huge Bourne fan, said that it's outrageous to compare it to Bourne because the plot in Bourne is extremely well written, engaging and intelligent, while in this one it is...non-existent. Guess people can always quote this for the Bourne comparison and say "it's not true it's like Bourne!)
That said, I repeat, Loeffs is determined to love anything Daniel Craig when it comes to Bond, so I'm pretty damn sure he will love it. His reaction to the titles (that I found ahem... I can't find a word that expresses enough negative judgement.. atrocious?
Couldn't agree more. We read some critical posts complaining that QoS is all wham bam action with no characterisation; others saying it's boring with far too much characterisation. Some say Craig is the perfect Bond; others find him almost unwatchable.
I think it's great that we Bond fans form such a 'broad church' which can welcome those of similar interests but radically differing tastes.
Compare Dr No with, say, Die Another Day: other than the basic characters and premise, the films differ radically in style, pace, design, atmosphere and just about every other facet. Compare Dr No with QoS: both are films with James Bond 007 as central character who foils a villainous organisation's plot and helps out a vulnerable young woman who bears scars from earlier crimes. This latest film has much more in common with the original character and stories than most of its recent predecessors,
and indeed to continue to rely increasingly on jokes and gadgets in a "post-Austin Powers" world would seem more and more ludicrous. CR and QoS are well made films with many layers and deserve to be taken seriously, but they do respect the traditions, both literary and cinematic, from which they arise.
On a separate note can I presume that Alessandra doesn't like the film?
We're having the Dr No discussion in the review with spoilers thread so I won't go on for too long, but... completely disagree. Find little to nothing in common between Dr No and QoS, especially as far as the leading man (ah, Sir Sean) and the whole "feel" of the movie is concerned. Won't even get into the action part, it's uncomparable. Aside from Daniel Craig that I will just never like as Bond, I could at least enjoy some real Bondian atmospheres in the movie, but I find those are just totally MIA in QoS. On top of not seeing Bond in the actor, I don't see anything Bondian in the style of the movie, and I think that's the main gripe the critics have, even those who love CR. They say exactly that unlike CR, this goes way too far from the Bond elements to be enjoyed. And I agree. In fact, I said even putting another actor that I truly like in the role of Bond wouldn't salvage this movie for me.
So there again, polarising. Which I don't find particularly good for a Bond movie. If it was a documentary, polarising is great. But not for a Bond movie that's supposed to be entertainment, thus should at the very least entertain all those who go. Some more, some less, but still entertain. This one seems to fail even in that very basic compartment, given the reaction. And for a Bond movie, I don't think it's good. Again, glad some seem to like it, at least someone is having fun. I need to wait until after the next one for my turn, so others may as well enjoy it truly in the meantime!
I sense sarcasm here??
Proof of point above!
I thought this, yet they seem to be saying that Quantum has opened very well in Europe indeed.
I liked the titles too! It is a shame you hated the film, it must be hard as a fan of James Bond to have a film you dislike so much. I suppose I felt similar after Die Another Day (which, incidentally, I did *not* find enjoyable), so I can appreciate how it must feel. As far as I am concerned though this is a revolution in Bond. Revolutions will polarise, and I don't see what the problem with a polarising film is (we cannot please everyone - as I say I found Die Another Day dire). For me at least, Viva La Revolution!
I honestly enjoyed DAD 1st half (sans title song, which is imho similar worse than QoS, infact I never thought that a title song could be worse than DAD, but AWTD did!) and I remember, that I have left the cinema very pleased after DAD, I was absolutely disappointed after QoS.
I am different to her when my judgement goes to DC, which I find brilliant, even he looked 10 yrs older than in CR.
I heartfully welcomed the reboot and revolution, which has been done by CR, can't see much of it in QoS.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
OH the roses, thank you! ;%
Oh yes I forgot the atrocious title song for DAD, agree on that one
Anyway yes it all boils down to taste here really.. I just find it really peculiar about this movie that it manages to not entertain people even. As others have said, they weren't entertained by DAD but I found that one far less polarising than QoS. WE basically all agreed that overall the movie wasn't good, despite a very good first half... the second half really made it horrible. The consensus on that one wasn't divided as it is on this one.. and the fact so many people find this one boring is astonishing to me. But hey, again, it's really a matter of personal preference.
The thing is, Brosnan may not be my all-time favourite Bond, but if I met him I'd still shake his hand and say, "Loved you as Bond". And I wouldn't be lying. I like all Bond films, all Bond actors. It's just - rather like Animal Farm - some are more equal than others
Alessandra, we've always gotten on well...and we always will...but I feel I have to tell you that I find this very disappointing, the implication that I won't give the film an honest review. I've said on countless forums that if I find the film to be lacking I'll say so...but the fact is that I've now seen about twenty clips (each a minute or less in length), the titles sequence and the gun barrel, and I'm very excited. I guess I should apologize for that ?:) In the week prior to it's opening in my country?? On a James Bond fansite???
Anyway, I've seen here that I can't say too much to anyone, by means of self-defence, without incurring wrath from above, so suffice to say...
Very disappointing indeed, and your essentially calling me dishonest is something of a game changer. Perhaps I'll just PM my review to a select few.
Not a universally-held opinion, I'm afraid. However, it is interesting to read reports elsewhere that indicate QoS isn't playing as well in Italy, that the reviews and word of mouth is overall more negative there than in other parts of Europe, such as Germany and France. Not something a dishonest person would report, but then there we are.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
...!
8-)
Maybe we won't, at that.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Loeffs... you seriously didn't get that I am JOKING about this?? Of course I know you will give a honest review! I'm being sarcastic here, I'm saying if you do like the titles that was one of the parts I found worse, I am sure you will be estatic about the rest, which is better than the titles (doesn't take much
BLUE! Hi!
I haven't heard your opinion. Did you enjoy QoS? (And I will be glad if you did
I'm afraid so B-)
But how about a Truce, as I have no interest in a war, and only got 'hung up' once I felt that by implication I had been unfairly branded a 'slagger'
I really do hope that you do post your review as I'm genuinely keen to see what you make of it & I'm sure that others are as well. I have said previously and meant it that I really do hope that you find more to enjoy than I could.
If you prefer I will not respond to or reference your text in any way. Your call.
I returned to work after a weeks break and of course the conversation in my office was my love of Bond and what I thought of the new film.
I shan't go on about my feeling for this wonderful film again but what did surprise me was the general feeling of satisfaction I heard from the rest of my colleagues that had seen it. It was also refreshing to hear comments along the lines of;
"It was great to see a Bond film without all those stupid gadgets"
"My wife usually hates Bond, but she liked it."
These are people who usually would grab a Bond film at Christmas and leave it at that, but now due to Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are actually interested in Bond and want to see more.
A guy I work with has an evening job in a rather flash hotel bar. He told me the other day, that the previous evening, an elderly lady approximately in her 80s hobbled into the bar on her two sticks, and proclaimed that, after waiting her whole life, she had finally seen a 'proper Bond'.
Well, I'm glad she's going to die happy! {[]
Yes thhe villian was weak and you can see that there is definatley another chapter to follow as this film was about Bond developing more as a character. The plot could have been a lot deeper and some of the characters devloped much more.
For me Bond is now the true '00' we want to see and has only made me more excited about the next film. The next film will be the first that DC will be playing James Bond as most of us know him. That is why it frustrates me when i read comments that say this isn't a bond film. Techinically it isn't due to the nature of Bond.
I loved the gun barrel at the end it really worked for me telling us that bond is here!! The next one will surley start this way and I'm sure we will also see more humour as a more mature Bond will be potrayed. (ie won't kill every vilian he meets so quickly and more dry wit will be added)
I'm sure when I watch it again more things will jump out at me but all in all i can't wait for the next one!!
Hi Alle, nice to see you being your bad ol' self. {[]
Unfortunately I haven't seen it yet, I live in the states and we don't get it till Thursday at midnight (have my ticket already