I loved it. A brilliant follow up to Casino Royale. Daniel Craig is utterly amazing, as is all of the cast.
Forster did a SPLENDID Job.{[]
Welcome to the board, harkers. {[] Expect to see that opinion of yours trashed, you non-Bond fan you.
Blue, be nice... this is uncalled for. We didn't trash anyone's opinion, actually most of us said they were happy for those who liked it. And there's been discussion previously here (That the mods stopped, so we better leave it now too) that it's actually the opposite, that those who don't like the movie are basically told that they're suckers for stupid things like gadgets and wink-wink and/or not real fans because they dare criticise Craig and QoS. And there's been quite a row of more or less subtle insults towards those who criticised. Sooooo.. nobody here is trashing anyone's positive opinions. We're discussing and that's it.
Not like we're any different from the critics... reviews have definitely been mixed, so we reflect exactly the thoughts of those who do this for a living as well. Unlike with CR, where critics were almost everywhere praising unconditionally. So it's just a matter of getting used to the fact that QoS, unlike CR, did NOT garner universal positive consensus. Quite the opposite. That's life. Let's just hope for the sake of all Bond fans that the next movie is WAY better and WAY more Bondian than this one.
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
I loved CR, but I agree, the armour line was utter gorgonzola, and it seemed to end three times. Still, I loved it. I watch a film, I weigh up the pros and cons and see which way the pendulum swings. If something's bad, it has to be really really bad.
Still, you really can't please all of the people all of the time. Example - I don't get The Godfather films. I just don't like 'em. Quentin Tarantino - again, what's all that about? Yet according to Empire magazine, I should love 'em.
If Craig fans like him in the role cuz he's closer to what Fleming wrote than the last couple few guys in the role, wouldn't that make them better Bond fans? I haven't really been a fan of the series since the 70s, and only with Craig in the role do I get really geeked about Bond these days. Not a Bond fan? Been reading the books for over 30 years - not a Bond fan? I wouldn't say Craig fans are lesser Bond fans any more than I would say Brosnan fans are lesser Bond fans, Monique. The series has evolved - really since it started, there hasn't been a film yet that captures Fleming's Bond IMO, just bits and pieces. I think ALL Bond fans can like whichever bits they prefer these days, Bond just has too many faces at this point, and most fans (well, by nature) are passionate about their likes and dislikes, I know I am.
And I've seen some reviews from "hardcore Bondfans" who really love QOS. Again, seems to go to expectations of who and what Bond is. I'd be happy to see a corking good thriller, and one as brutal as Bond strangling Blofeld with his bare hands. We've only ever had glimpses of that Bond on-screen IMO, and if ever there was reason to bring that Bond to the forefront in EON's film series, it's now after the death of Vesper. A "normal" Bond film right after CR would be an incredible letdown IMO.
Anyway like I started with in this thread, very encouraged by reactions to QOS I've read, both the positives and the (not to me) negatives. I may hate it, I may shrug with indifference. But so far, I have pretty lofty hopes for a corking good Bond thriller (shakycam editing and all ).
Now now blue, let's not spoil our recent truce. I didn't say people like Craig because he is closer to Fleming's Bond! I don't agree with that assumption anyway! What I meant as "hardcore fans", are our friends who have been posting here for years! Have we been reading the same thread? Most of the reviews on here from them are TERRIBLE, I don't know how you can be encouraged at all! You said you weren't much of a fan since the 70's, but you still signed up to be a member of a James Bond fansite, way before Craig was even announced, so for you it wasnt just about Craig! That was my point in the first place. You don't always need to play the devil's advocate ya know!
What worries me is the only ones who seem to really love QOS so far, are Daniel Craig fans, not necessarily Bond fans.
A tad unfair, no? I am definitely a Bond fan and love Quantum of Solace. I also love Moonraker, both the film and the book. I enjoy GoldenEye as well as From Russia with Love. This attempt to compartmentalise and pigeon-hole people is getting a bit much. Some Bond fans (and they *are* Bond fans) love the film; some Bond fans (and they *are* Bond fans) loathe the film. Some think it is a perfect example of what a film about James Bond should be like; some think it lacks any sense of James Bond. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
However, to assert that the only ones to love QoS are Daniel Craig fans and not Bond fans is not based on reality whatsoever.
No. I must have missed your review, I didn't remember you being such a champion of QOS. I was making an observation of what I have seen and read on Bond forums, it's MY opinion. I am not going to spend another minute debating you about how I feel, that was SO last year. You and I don't get along, and we never will. Just resist the urge to reply to my posts, as you always seem to feel the need to set me straight or give me the PC version of what you deem as fair. We disagree...move on.
No. I must have missed your review, I didn't remember you being such a champion of QOS. I was making an observation of what I have seen and read on Bond forums, it's MY opinion. I am not going to spend another minute debating you about how I feel, that was SO last year. You and I don't get along, and we never will. Just resist the urge to reply to my posts, as you always seem to feel the need to set me straight or give me the PC version of what you deem as fair. We disagree...move on.
Er, it's just a discussion. Of course it is your opinion, to which you are more than entitled. I am merely pointing out that there are some who love lots of different Bond movies and books who also love Quantum of Solace. It is a little unfair to dismiss that as being only Daniel Craig fans. It's nothing to do with not getting along - this is only a Bond fansite after all! I don't know you from Adam, and vice versa. I just disagreed with an assertion you made. There's no need to be a so sharp!
I did post a lengthy review a while back (trust me, you didn't miss much!), and I do love Quantum of Solace. There are many, of course, who disagree. I love lots of aspects of the films, and I particularly like the radically different road they are taking now. Others who are more attached to the previous version may dislike the new agenda. Such is life, I suppose. I do thoroughly enjoy Roger Moore's take on Bond, incidentally. Even though I prefer the sort of film being produced now, I appreciate what has gone before and the variety that exists in the Bond catalogue.
Didn't like:
Theme (most recent theme tunes have been bad (except CR)
Shaky camera. What was going on? kept wanting to pause and rewind. This is Bond - not a pop video!
No gun-barrel at beginning
yet another unconvincing villain.
The film was a bit too serious. Needs to lighten up a touch (but not toom much like DAD or Moore films)
Slightly lacking in style, sophistication and Boond 'feel'
I'm going to be honest here and perhaps there's not much point me responding to the controversy I seem to have caused here but I feel compelled to try.
I haven't quoted full posts so as not to clog the boards, not in order to hide anything before we get going on that bandwagon.
Having revisited my original quote, made in reply to Blueman:
I've said to someone else that some of the Bondian touches and moments are still there, its just on a much more subtle level than before so really could/should appeal more broadly to people looking to see a sophisticated spy rather than a Johnny English-esque type (if that makes sense!).
I was simply making some points on how I see QoS. I didn't slate Brosnan at that point, I was just making an observation that QoS might come across as more subtle and less JE than other films and that this might have been deliberate so as to appeal to those who found that aspect of Bond offputting - it's just an idea I threw out there.
I don't like, and have never liked Brosnan as Bond or in any other of his film roles. I find something slimy and used car salesman about him and always have, and hence I didn't engage with any of the Bond films he made. I feel for him like Alessandra feels for DC - total abhorrence.
I never before criticised anyone for liking Craig, or any other Bond actor, for that matter. However, I do think you are indulging in Brosnan-bashing when you said that you associate Johnny English with Brosnan. Also, I don't think I'm doing too much generalisation at all when I said that DC fans tend to attack Brosnan more than other Bond actors while defending their favourite. I'm not thinking only about your quote when I said this. Read any forum and soon enough, you will see some Craig fans labeling Brosnan as "smarmy", "medallion man", "mannequin", or something to that effect. (However, I don't remember anyone calling Brosnan's portrayal of Bond "slimy", so that honour belongs entirely to you, I believe).
I also find it interesting that someone who claims to be "into Moore's representation of Bond" also likes Craig's take on Bond so much. IMO, Craig's Bond is the "anti-Moore" Bond, if you know what I mean. DC's Bond will most likely beat an enemy to a pulp rather than do some clever thing to take care of him (hardly working smarter not harder, wouldn't you say?). You said that you liked the suave Bond that Roger played. DC's Bond doesn't seem to have a clue what "suave" is. He probably thinks being suave means dropping some sappy, totally un-Fleming line like "I have no armour left... whatever is left of me, I'm yours" to impress a woman.
Finally, since you yourself called Brosnan "slimy" and a "used car salesman", you probably wouldn't think me out of line if I say that to me, DC looks more like a semi-thuggish nightclub bouncer than Bond.
I personally dislike Brosnan and like Craig, and I've changed my thoughts on what Bond meant to me as I grew up and more interested in the entire JB franchise - that's where I'm coming from. Although I take on board what you're saying I don't care what other Craig fans say or do, they're not me, I'm not them. I'm not a net troll, I'm an educated woman with an interest in and opinion on James Bond and expecting the right hold that opinion, whatever it might be, to be reciprocated and, in some instances challenged but not on the basis that I represent all that's bad about Craig fans.
I've never liked PB as an actor and preferred Moore *until* Craig - just to clarify. And I wouldn't think you out of line if you said whatever you think of DC as you see him that way and that's that.
In the ensuing debate/s I've stated that I've got a long standing dislike for Brosnan as an actor but I've never mocked anyone else for finding his performance satisfying in the role nor hammered into him on here, in fact it's since been suggested that JE could be relative to pre-Brosnan JB so my comment in it's original context is not as anti-PB as it might seem despite the fact that that's the link in *my* mind.
As far as I'm concerned everyone can love or hate any or all Bond actors as is their wont. I hope that's clear.
And by the way: "I have no armour left. You've stripped it from me. Whatever is left of me, whatever I am, I'm yours." is imho the cheesiest line, which has EVER been in a bond movie. Compare this to what Bond says before he proposes to Tracy and you know what I mean...
I like the delivery and tenderness of the line, that's all I care about. To go as far as mocking my sig just because you think it's cheesy or not suave or Fleming enough is cheap sport, even by internet standards.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,658Chief of Staff
What worries me is the only ones who seem to really love QOS so far, are Daniel Craig fans, not necessarily Bond fans.
Worry no more, Monique...I'm a huge Bond fan and I LOVED QoS...I know several other big Bond fans and they love it too...plus many people I work with...who normally wouldn't bother with a Bond film have seen it and found it teriffic...
...although I have now upgraded DC to my all time fav. Bond....2 films... 2 corkers.. -{
It's been no secret that I'm not a fan of CR, and DC doesn't top my list of favorite Bonds (the lack of appeal of the film and actor, however, are not related) and I wasn't going to rush out to see QoS on opening day, primarily to a lack of interest.
A friend of mine, however, who I would describe as an 'aloof Bond fan' wants to see it Friday and asked me to accompany him. Thus I will be seeing the film on opening day. I'm curious to see how he reacts. He and I saw CR together and, while we never really discussed it in detail, neither of us were 'blown away' by the film. Since my friend is much more of a casual Bond fan han me, it will be interesting to me to see his reaction...considering some of the things I've read about in this forum.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
A friend of mine, however, who I would describe as an 'aloof Bond fan' wants to see it Friday and asked me to accompany him. Thus I will be seeing the film on opening day. I'm curious to see how he reacts. He and I saw CR together and, while we never really discussed it in detail, neither of us were 'blown away' by the film. Since my friend is much more of a casual Bond fan han me, it will be interesting to me to see his reaction...considering some of the things I've read about in this forum.
It probably depends upon which copy of QoS they put in the projector---the 'good' one or the 'dog s**t on a paper plate' one.
Ominously, there seems no telling which one you're going to get, as there's thousands of prints of each, and the documented chain of custody is quite dodgy---some notations on the log written in crayon, others apparently in dried blood, using many colourful but obvious pseudonyms, such as 'Rumpus R. Headcheese' and 'Vesuvius Q. Funkmeister.'
"You pays your money, and you takes your chances." - A Carnival Barker, circa 1908
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Sometimes, even when I don't agree with you, I still feel like standing up and applauding your artistry
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
Thanks, frost. That's the nicest thing anybody's said to me all week. Seriously.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Worry no more, Monique...I'm a huge Bond fan and I LOVED QoS...I know several other big Bond fans and they love it too...plus many people I work with...who normally wouldn't bother with a Bond film have seen it and found it teriffic...
...although I have now upgraded DC to my all time fav. Bond....2 films... 2 corkers.. -{
Good to hear Sir M, thank you. I had forgotten you liked it so much!
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,652MI6 Agent
What worries me is the only ones who seem to really love QOS so far, are Daniel Craig fans, not necessarily Bond fans.
A tad unfair, no? I am definitely a Bond fan and love Quantum of Solace. I also love Moonraker, both the film and the book. I enjoy GoldenEye as well as From Russia with Love. This attempt to compartmentalise and pigeon-hole people is getting a bit much. Some Bond fans (and they *are* Bond fans) love the film; some Bond fans (and they *are* Bond fans) loathe the film. Some think it is a perfect example of what a film about James Bond should be like; some think it lacks any sense of James Bond. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
However, to assert that the only ones to love QoS are Daniel Craig fans and not Bond fans is not based on reality whatsoever.
I would say that I'm the kind of Bond fan as you've described, Laz, a Bond fan through and through, enjoying the rich texture of the character, in print and on film (but I've yet to experience the pleasure of video game). However, there are some fans who are of the DC and DC only persuasion, and many others who are on the border. Some may even say that DC stepped right out of novels.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
...However, there are some fans who are of the DC and DC only persuasion, and many others who are on the border. Some may even say that DC stepped right out of novels.
Well...we need to find those people...and put a stop to it.
Of course, though, I'd never say that DC stepped right out of the novels. All I'd assert is that he happened to be the capable man in the tux when they decided to bring certain unprecedented elements to the screen...and have them work in a commercial sense.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
To go as far as mocking my sig just because you think it's cheesy or not suave or Fleming enough is cheap sport, even by internet standards.
Well, "mocking" and "cheap sport" are categories, where I don't come from.
I felt free to give my opinion on what appeared your favourite line like you had the freedom to comment on the choice of other member's favourite James Bond actors. I can't see too much difference there.
Where I can find differences are, that you prefer to talk in an inappropriate way about real people who don't deserve it. PB may not be my favourite Bond actor, but he's an extraordinary nice person, which I have experienced in 2 meetings with him.
I don't like, and have never liked Brosnan as Bond or in any other of his film roles. I find something slimy and used car salesman about him and always have, and hence I didn't engage with any of the Bond films he made. I feel for him like Alessandra feels for DC - total abhorrence.
And your need to label and categorize others just because they like certain movies or not may make life easier for yourself, but be prepared for some echoe from the labellled themselfs.
I've said to someone else that some of the Bondian touches and moments are still there, its just on a much more subtle level than before so really could/should appeal more broadly to people looking to see a sophisticated spy rather than a Johnny English-esque type (if that makes sense!)
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
So it's just a matter of getting used to the fact that QoS, unlike CR, did NOT garner universal positive consensus. Quite the opposite. That's life.
Ale, remember, that as far as blue is concerned, Daniel Craig could read a telephone directory and he would love it. 8-)
Really? I didn't even bother to see that compass film whatzits, or The Invasion, they both looked so dreadful. Like Craig as an actor, sure, but anybody can be in a bad film, eh?
Perfectly prepared to hate QOS if it sucks, not hard to imagine a Bond film with Craig in it being terrible - every Bond actor save Laz has at least one (if not several) of those by my count. Very enthused about seeing Forster's take on Bond, and nothing I've read (tried not reading much at all, really) from reviewers or Bond fans has set me back from that. Actually kinda glad that QOS is so fan-divisive, makes me think Forster's gone and made a very unique vision of a Bond film, which of course will not be to everyone's taste.
And encouraged that a few Bond fans (however one wants to define them) do like it. Again, I think the issue is expectations more than anything. Not hard to see what direction EON is headed from CR, and no it's not like the last 30 years of Bond. For some that's sad I guess, but I'm happy as a very happy clam about it (partly from being Bond-sad for so long). With the success so far of QOS, I imagine they'll be another huge influx of Bond fans to the forums writing their Craig-love on the wall with spray paint. It's a wacky world these days.
If Craig fans like him in the role cuz he's closer to what Fleming wrote than the last couple few guys in the role, wouldn't that make them better Bond fans? I haven't really been a fan of the series since the 70s, and only with Craig in the role do I get really geeked about Bond these days. Not a Bond fan? Been reading the books for over 30 years - not a Bond fan? I wouldn't say Craig fans are lesser Bond fans any more than I would say Brosnan fans are lesser Bond fans, Monique. The series has evolved - really since it started, there hasn't been a film yet that captures Fleming's Bond IMO, just bits and pieces. I think ALL Bond fans can like whichever bits they prefer these days, Bond just has too many faces at this point, and most fans (well, by nature) are passionate about their likes and dislikes, I know I am.
And I've seen some reviews from "hardcore Bondfans" who really love QOS. Again, seems to go to expectations of who and what Bond is. I'd be happy to see a corking good thriller, and one as brutal as Bond strangling Blofeld with his bare hands. We've only ever had glimpses of that Bond on-screen IMO, and if ever there was reason to bring that Bond to the forefront in EON's film series, it's now after the death of Vesper. A "normal" Bond film right after CR would be an incredible letdown IMO.
Anyway like I started with in this thread, very encouraged by reactions to QOS I've read, both the positives and the (not to me) negatives. I may hate it, I may shrug with indifference. But so far, I have pretty lofty hopes for a corking good Bond thriller (shakycam editing and all ).
Now now blue, let's not spoil our recent truce. I didn't say people like Craig because he is closer to Fleming's Bond! I don't agree with that assumption anyway! What I meant as "hardcore fans", are our friends who have been posting here for years! Have we been reading the same thread? Most of the reviews on here from them are TERRIBLE, I don't know how you can be encouraged at all! You said you weren't much of a fan since the 70's, but you still signed up to be a member of a James Bond fansite, way before Craig was even announced, so for you it wasnt just about Craig! That was my point in the first place. You don't always need to play the devil's advocate ya know!
Well, is Craig fans being Bond fans really so different from past Bond history? The series had been on hiatus for 6 years when GE came out, I'm sure Brosnan himself was a big draw to the fan boards for a lot of people (and, the internet wasn't around for any of the previous Bond actors...). Every new Bond actor brings with him his fanbase, some left the boards when Brosnan left the series (which BTW was when I joined ). New Bond, new fans. Just thought your comment was dismissive and a low blow, especially when there are old-school Bondfans who like this new Bond, and even QOS. I think it'll end up being like MR, just not every Bond fan's idea of what Bond should be, yet very profitable for EON and right in line what what at least a few olde fans think of as Bond, not to mention all the new ones.
That's life. Let's just hope for the sake of all Bond fans that the next movie is WAY better and WAY more Bondian than this one.
I would call myself a Bond fan and I don't see how QOS can be bettered - Just my opinion
My above quote wasn't categorizing anyone into Bond or non Bond fans, or judging anyone. I purposedly wrote for the sake of ALL Bond fans, that includes everybody. Likers and dislikers, doubters and lovers. As far as I'm concerned, NOTHING is perfect in this world, and that includes QoS (that to me not only isn't perfect but quite more on the dreadful side, but that's just a different take on it). Seen that QoS is no exception to the rules of life, it is far from perfect, thus by definition can certainly be improved as far as I can see. And that is not going into what one thinks or doesn't think of the movie, just because by definition nothing's perfect. So things in the real world can always be greatly improved... always. Thank goodness!
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,652MI6 Agent
...However, there are some fans who are of the DC and DC only persuasion, and many others who are on the border. Some may even say that DC stepped right out of novels.
Well...we need to find those people...and put a stop to it.
Of course, though, I'd never say that DC stepped right out of the novels. All I'd assert is that he happened to be the capable man in the tux when they decided to bring certain unprecedented elements to the screen...and have them work in a commercial sense.
Aha, Mr. Loeffelholz, you took the bait specially designed by Department 8 of Directorate S, formerly known as SMERSH! ) ...but actually, I can agree with what you are asserting...at least here! :v
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
...However, there are some fans who are of the DC and DC only persuasion, and many others who are on the border. Some may even say that DC stepped right out of novels.
Well...we need to find those people...and put a stop to it.
Of course, though, I'd never say that DC stepped right out of the novels. All I'd assert is that he happened to be the capable man in the tux when they decided to bring certain unprecedented elements to the screen...and have them work in a commercial sense.
Aha, Mr. Loeffelholz, you took the bait specially designed by Department 8 of Directorate S, formerly known as SMERSH! ) ...but actually, I can agree with what you are asserting...at least here! :v
Pretty good article that Leoff! Well written! {[]
I would have also added Viv Michel's own thoughts on Bond too when first setting eyes on him in TSWLM, in your article, which to me tally's more with the kind of Bond Craig is (in spirit) -
`At first I groaned inwardly - God, it's another of them! He stood there so quiet and controlled and somehow with the same quality of deadliness as the others. And he wore that uniform that the films make one associate with gangsters. He was good-looking in a dark, rather cruel way and a scar showed whitely down his left cheek...'
Of course, though, I'd never say that DC stepped right out of the novels. All I'd assert is that he happened to be the capable man in the tux when they decided to bring certain unprecedented elements to the screen...and have them work in a commercial sense.
Aha, Mr. Loeffelholz, you took the bait specially designed by Department 8 of Directorate S, formerly known as SMERSH! ) ...but actually, I can agree with what you are asserting...at least here! :v
Pretty good article that Leoff! Well written! {[]
I would have also added Viv Michel's own thoughts on Bond too when first setting eyes on him in TSWLM, in your article, which to me tally's more with the kind of Bond Craig is (in spirit) -
`At first I groaned inwardly - God, it's another of them! He stood there so quiet and controlled and somehow with the same quality of deadliness as the others. And he wore that uniform that the films make one associate with gangsters. He was good-looking in a dark, rather cruel way and a scar showed whitely down his left cheek...'
Always liked what Fleming did there: put the damsel in position to be rescued, Bond shows up and her first reaction is: revulsion, with just a hint of attraction. Nice. That whole thing about Bond walking by a woman and she's weak in the knees is an EON/Connery creation. Didn't much care for it in CR either, like many cinematic Bond traditions it's one I could do without seeing ever again. Bond should never be "cute"; those tennis chicks giggling as they walked by Bond in the parking lot of the Ocean Club was dumb. I realize it what's Bond audiences - both fans and general audiences - have come to expect, but it's annoying IMO, and takes away from the man Fleming created. JMHO.
I felt free to give my opinion on what appeared your favourite line like you had the freedom to comment on the choice of other member's favourite James Bond actors. I can't see too much difference there.
Apart from the fact that a dig at my sig was totally out of context of the discussion?? We were/are discussing DC and PB, not my signature.
Where I can find differences are, that you prefer to talk in an inappropriate way about real people who don't deserve it. PB may not be my favourite Bond actor, but he's an extraordinary nice person, which I have experienced in 2 meetings with him.
I don't like, and have never liked Brosnan as Bond or in any other of his film roles. I find something slimy and used car salesman about him and always have, and hence I didn't engage with any of the Bond films he made. I feel for him like Alessandra feels for DC - total abhorrence.
And your need to label and categorize others just because they like certain movies or not may make life easier for yourself, but be prepared for some echoe from the labellled themselfs.
If you aren't Pierce Brosnan then you're not being labelled anything. If you'd care to point me in the direction of what I've said that states I don't think anyone else should like PB or anything about his real life persona I'd be interested to see it. All I've said is that I don't like his acting and gave my reasons why and I deal with that by not watching his films which I choose not to do.
I don't doubt he's probably a nice bloke, I just can't stick his acting as Bond or otherwise. Is that so much of a problem? Daniel Craig might be the most awful, heartless and rude person on the planet but I like his acting and I think I'm entitled to hold that opinion.
I'd just like to point out that other people have given their critical thoughts on PB in this thread. I trust that your point about it being inappropriate to post in that manner because he's a nice man applies to everyone.
I felt free to give my opinion on what appeared your favourite line like you had the freedom to comment on the choice of other member's favourite James Bond actors. I can't see too much difference there.
Where I can find differences are, that you prefer to talk in an inappropriate way about real people who don't deserve it. PB may not be my favourite Bond actor, but he's an extraordinary nice person, which I have experienced in 2 meetings with him.
I don't like, and have never liked Brosnan as Bond or in any other of his film roles. I find something slimy and used car salesman about him and always have, and hence I didn't engage with any of the Bond films he made. I feel for him like Alessandra feels for DC - total abhorrence.
And your need to label and categorize others just because they like certain movies or not may make life easier for yourself, but be prepared for some echoe from the labellled themselfs.
If you aren't Pierce Brosnan then you're not being labelled anything. If you'd care to point me in the direction of what I've said that states I don't think anyone else should like PB or anything about his real life persona I'd be interested to see it. All I've said is that I don't like his acting and gave my reasons why and I deal with that by not watching his films which I choose not to do.
I don't doubt he's probably a nice bloke, I just can't stick his acting as Bond or otherwise. Is that so much of a problem? Daniel Craig might be the most awful, heartless and rude person on the planet but I like his acting and I think I'm entitled to hold that opinion.
I'd just like to point out that other people have given their critical thoughts on PB in this thread. I trust that your point about it being inappropriate to post in that manner because he's a nice man applies to everyone.
I have to add that lavabubble isn't doing anything different than certain members have done, and still do, about DC. Her points are just as valid as the next persons and should be treated as such...everybody won't agree, but that's life. It's about discussion...not browbeating.
Now...lets play nice...or I'll take your ball away )
I did not know, that this would be happening, Hours, after I have praised Sir Miles to heaven here
I have to respectfully disagree with you in some points:
I have to add that lavabubble isn't doing anything different than certain members have done, and still do, about DC.
As far as I have followed the discussion, LB started with these bad labellings and the others replied on this. If I am wrong, please correct me and I'll take care personally for the one, who started this kind of sandmould-throwing.. :007)
Her points are just as valid as the next persons and should be treated as such...everybody won't agree, but that's life. It's about discussion...not browbeating.
absolutely agree {[]
... as long as they are expressed civilized
Apart from the fact that a dig at my sig was totally out of context of the discussion?? We were/are discussing DC and PB, not my signature.
The dicussion here is abot QoS quick reviews, so my thoughts about your favourite line (and that is what it is, it has nothing to do with mocking on your signature (or your person as you may construct) per se and I thought, that I made this clear) are as off-topic as the general discussion about DC and PB.
If you aren't Pierce Brosnan then you're not being labelled anything.
It's now the second time that you project a comment of mine to the wrong quote. Could it be, that you are not carefully reading, what you are critisizing up to?
The labelling comment was referring to:
I've said to someone else that some of the Bondian touches and moments are still there, its just on a much more subtle level than before so really could/should appeal more broadly to people looking to see a sophisticated spy rather than a Johnny English-esque type (if that makes sense!)
I'd just like to point out that other people have given their critical thoughts on PB in this thread. I trust that your point about it being inappropriate to post in that manner because he's a nice man applies to everyone.
I have said, that he's an exceptionally nice man and I still find your personal go on him inappropriate as well as I don't like the same thing done by others.
And as I have said: You like QoS: Good!
And you like DC: Good! Me too!
P.S. LB: I think, that I have made my point very clear now. If you have further question, read my posts again.
I'll not reply to any of your comments on my posts here again. Don't regard this as weakness, it's just that I don't enjoy to repeat myself.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
it must be love, love, love...
Just left the midnight showing- I loved it. Bond is a cold *******- just how I like him.
Comments
Blue, be nice... this is uncalled for. We didn't trash anyone's opinion, actually most of us said they were happy for those who liked it. And there's been discussion previously here (That the mods stopped, so we better leave it now too) that it's actually the opposite, that those who don't like the movie are basically told that they're suckers for stupid things like gadgets and wink-wink and/or not real fans because they dare criticise Craig and QoS. And there's been quite a row of more or less subtle insults towards those who criticised. Sooooo.. nobody here is trashing anyone's positive opinions. We're discussing and that's it.
Not like we're any different from the critics... reviews have definitely been mixed, so we reflect exactly the thoughts of those who do this for a living as well. Unlike with CR, where critics were almost everywhere praising unconditionally. So it's just a matter of getting used to the fact that QoS, unlike CR, did NOT garner universal positive consensus. Quite the opposite. That's life. Let's just hope for the sake of all Bond fans that the next movie is WAY better and WAY more Bondian than this one.
Ale, remember, that as far as blue is concerned, Daniel Craig could read a telephone directory and he would love it. 8-)
I loved CR, but I agree, the armour line was utter gorgonzola, and it seemed to end three times. Still, I loved it. I watch a film, I weigh up the pros and cons and see which way the pendulum swings. If something's bad, it has to be really really bad.
Still, you really can't please all of the people all of the time. Example - I don't get The Godfather films. I just don't like 'em. Quentin Tarantino - again, what's all that about? Yet according to Empire magazine, I should love 'em.
Meh.
Now now blue, let's not spoil our recent truce. I didn't say people like Craig because he is closer to Fleming's Bond! I don't agree with that assumption anyway! What I meant as "hardcore fans", are our friends who have been posting here for years! Have we been reading the same thread? Most of the reviews on here from them are TERRIBLE, I don't know how you can be encouraged at all! You said you weren't much of a fan since the 70's, but you still signed up to be a member of a James Bond fansite, way before Craig was even announced, so for you it wasnt just about Craig! That was my point in the first place. You don't always need to play the devil's advocate ya know!
However, to assert that the only ones to love QoS are Daniel Craig fans and not Bond fans is not based on reality whatsoever.
No. I must have missed your review, I didn't remember you being such a champion of QOS. I was making an observation of what I have seen and read on Bond forums, it's MY opinion. I am not going to spend another minute debating you about how I feel, that was SO last year. You and I don't get along, and we never will. Just resist the urge to reply to my posts, as you always seem to feel the need to set me straight or give me the PC version of what you deem as fair. We disagree...move on.
I did post a lengthy review a while back (trust me, you didn't miss much!), and I do love Quantum of Solace. There are many, of course, who disagree. I love lots of aspects of the films, and I particularly like the radically different road they are taking now. Others who are more attached to the previous version may dislike the new agenda. Such is life, I suppose. I do thoroughly enjoy Roger Moore's take on Bond, incidentally. Even though I prefer the sort of film being produced now, I appreciate what has gone before and the variety that exists in the Bond catalogue.
I would call myself a Bond fan and I don't see how QOS can be bettered - Just my opinion
Like:
Craig
Judie Dench
Aston
Didn't like:
Theme (most recent theme tunes have been bad (except CR)
Shaky camera. What was going on? kept wanting to pause and rewind. This is Bond - not a pop video!
No gun-barrel at beginning
yet another unconvincing villain.
The film was a bit too serious. Needs to lighten up a touch (but not toom much like DAD or Moore films)
Slightly lacking in style, sophistication and Boond 'feel'
I haven't quoted full posts so as not to clog the boards, not in order to hide anything before we get going on that bandwagon.
Having revisited my original quote, made in reply to Blueman:
I was simply making some points on how I see QoS. I didn't slate Brosnan at that point, I was just making an observation that QoS might come across as more subtle and less JE than other films and that this might have been deliberate so as to appeal to those who found that aspect of Bond offputting - it's just an idea I threw out there.
I said
and
and the response was
I personally dislike Brosnan and like Craig, and I've changed my thoughts on what Bond meant to me as I grew up and more interested in the entire JB franchise - that's where I'm coming from. Although I take on board what you're saying I don't care what other Craig fans say or do, they're not me, I'm not them. I'm not a net troll, I'm an educated woman with an interest in and opinion on James Bond and expecting the right hold that opinion, whatever it might be, to be reciprocated and, in some instances challenged but not on the basis that I represent all that's bad about Craig fans.
I've never liked PB as an actor and preferred Moore *until* Craig - just to clarify. And I wouldn't think you out of line if you said whatever you think of DC as you see him that way and that's that.
In the ensuing debate/s I've stated that I've got a long standing dislike for Brosnan as an actor but I've never mocked anyone else for finding his performance satisfying in the role nor hammered into him on here, in fact it's since been suggested that JE could be relative to pre-Brosnan JB so my comment in it's original context is not as anti-PB as it might seem despite the fact that that's the link in *my* mind.
As far as I'm concerned everyone can love or hate any or all Bond actors as is their wont. I hope that's clear.
I like the delivery and tenderness of the line, that's all I care about. To go as far as mocking my sig just because you think it's cheesy or not suave or Fleming enough is cheap sport, even by internet standards.
Worry no more, Monique...I'm a huge Bond fan and I LOVED QoS...I know several other big Bond fans and they love it too...plus many people I work with...who normally wouldn't bother with a Bond film have seen it and found it teriffic...
...although I have now upgraded DC to my all time fav. Bond....2 films... 2 corkers.. -{
A friend of mine, however, who I would describe as an 'aloof Bond fan' wants to see it Friday and asked me to accompany him. Thus I will be seeing the film on opening day. I'm curious to see how he reacts. He and I saw CR together and, while we never really discussed it in detail, neither of us were 'blown away' by the film. Since my friend is much more of a casual Bond fan han me, it will be interesting to me to see his reaction...considering some of the things I've read about in this forum.
It probably depends upon which copy of QoS they put in the projector---the 'good' one or the 'dog s**t on a paper plate' one.
Ominously, there seems no telling which one you're going to get, as there's thousands of prints of each, and the documented chain of custody is quite dodgy---some notations on the log written in crayon, others apparently in dried blood, using many colourful but obvious pseudonyms, such as 'Rumpus R. Headcheese' and 'Vesuvius Q. Funkmeister.'
"You pays your money, and you takes your chances." - A Carnival Barker, circa 1908
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Sometimes, even when I don't agree with you, I still feel like standing up and applauding your artistry
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Good to hear Sir M, thank you. I had forgotten you liked it so much!
I would say that I'm the kind of Bond fan as you've described, Laz, a Bond fan through and through, enjoying the rich texture of the character, in print and on film (but I've yet to experience the pleasure of video game). However, there are some fans who are of the DC and DC only persuasion, and many others who are on the border. Some may even say that DC stepped right out of novels.
Well...we need to find those people...and put a stop to it.
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/articles/daniel-craig-the-literary-bond/
:007)
Of course, though, I'd never say that DC stepped right out of the novels. All I'd assert is that he happened to be the capable man in the tux when they decided to bring certain unprecedented elements to the screen...and have them work in a commercial sense.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Well, "mocking" and "cheap sport" are categories, where I don't come from.
I felt free to give my opinion on what appeared your favourite line like you had the freedom to comment on the choice of other member's favourite James Bond actors. I can't see too much difference there.
Where I can find differences are, that you prefer to talk in an inappropriate way about real people who don't deserve it. PB may not be my favourite Bond actor, but he's an extraordinary nice person, which I have experienced in 2 meetings with him.
Example:
And your need to label and categorize others just because they like certain movies or not may make life easier for yourself, but be prepared for some echoe from the labellled themselfs.
Example:
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Perfectly prepared to hate QOS if it sucks, not hard to imagine a Bond film with Craig in it being terrible - every Bond actor save Laz has at least one (if not several) of those by my count. Very enthused about seeing Forster's take on Bond, and nothing I've read (tried not reading much at all, really) from reviewers or Bond fans has set me back from that. Actually kinda glad that QOS is so fan-divisive, makes me think Forster's gone and made a very unique vision of a Bond film, which of course will not be to everyone's taste.
And encouraged that a few Bond fans (however one wants to define them) do like it. Again, I think the issue is expectations more than anything. Not hard to see what direction EON is headed from CR, and no it's not like the last 30 years of Bond. For some that's sad I guess, but I'm happy as a very happy clam about it (partly from being Bond-sad for so long). With the success so far of QOS, I imagine they'll be another huge influx of Bond fans to the forums writing their Craig-love on the wall with spray paint. It's a wacky world these days.
Well, is Craig fans being Bond fans really so different from past Bond history? The series had been on hiatus for 6 years when GE came out, I'm sure Brosnan himself was a big draw to the fan boards for a lot of people (and, the internet wasn't around for any of the previous Bond actors...). Every new Bond actor brings with him his fanbase, some left the boards when Brosnan left the series (which BTW was when I joined
My above quote wasn't categorizing anyone into Bond or non Bond fans, or judging anyone. I purposedly wrote for the sake of ALL Bond fans, that includes everybody. Likers and dislikers, doubters and lovers. As far as I'm concerned, NOTHING is perfect in this world, and that includes QoS (that to me not only isn't perfect but quite more on the dreadful side, but that's just a different take on it). Seen that QoS is no exception to the rules of life, it is far from perfect, thus by definition can certainly be improved as far as I can see. And that is not going into what one thinks or doesn't think of the movie, just because by definition nothing's perfect. So things in the real world can always be greatly improved... always. Thank goodness!
Aha, Mr. Loeffelholz, you took the bait specially designed by Department 8 of Directorate S, formerly known as SMERSH!
I would have also added Viv Michel's own thoughts on Bond too when first setting eyes on him in TSWLM, in your article, which to me tally's more with the kind of Bond Craig is (in spirit) -
`At first I groaned inwardly - God, it's another of them! He stood there so quiet and controlled and somehow with the same quality of deadliness as the others. And he wore that uniform that the films make one associate with gangsters. He was good-looking in a dark, rather cruel way and a scar showed whitely down his left cheek...'
Always liked what Fleming did there: put the damsel in position to be rescued, Bond shows up and her first reaction is: revulsion, with just a hint of attraction. Nice. That whole thing about Bond walking by a woman and she's weak in the knees is an EON/Connery creation. Didn't much care for it in CR either, like many cinematic Bond traditions it's one I could do without seeing ever again. Bond should never be "cute"; those tennis chicks giggling as they walked by Bond in the parking lot of the Ocean Club was dumb. I realize it what's Bond audiences - both fans and general audiences - have come to expect, but it's annoying IMO, and takes away from the man Fleming created. JMHO.
Apart from the fact that a dig at my sig was totally out of context of the discussion?? We were/are discussing DC and PB, not my signature.
If you aren't Pierce Brosnan then you're not being labelled anything. If you'd care to point me in the direction of what I've said that states I don't think anyone else should like PB or anything about his real life persona I'd be interested to see it. All I've said is that I don't like his acting and gave my reasons why and I deal with that by not watching his films which I choose not to do.
I don't doubt he's probably a nice bloke, I just can't stick his acting as Bond or otherwise. Is that so much of a problem? Daniel Craig might be the most awful, heartless and rude person on the planet but I like his acting and I think I'm entitled to hold that opinion.
I'd just like to point out that other people have given their critical thoughts on PB in this thread. I trust that your point about it being inappropriate to post in that manner because he's a nice man applies to everyone.
the film was amazing i can safely say DC is now my best bond and QOS is my first best bond film. :007)
I will write a review tomorrow i am really tired.
I have to add that lavabubble isn't doing anything different than certain members have done, and still do, about DC. Her points are just as valid as the next persons and should be treated as such...everybody won't agree, but that's life. It's about discussion...not browbeating.
Now...lets play nice...or I'll take your ball away
here
I have to respectfully disagree with you in some points:
Is that hammered in stone or part of the membership here, or why did you not specify that it's your opinion here
As far as I have followed the discussion, LB started with these bad labellings and the others replied on this. If I am wrong, please correct me and I'll take care personally for the one, who started this kind of sandmould-throwing.. :007)
absolutely agree {[]
... as long as they are expressed civilized
If you mean me, please show me, exactly, where I have been unfair and I'll apologize.
But as far as I remember, she started to get very personal here:
It seems to me that LB prefers more to bait others then cry when she's challenged.
Now to Lavabubble:
The dicussion here is abot QoS quick reviews, so my thoughts about your favourite line (and that is what it is, it has nothing to do with mocking on your signature (or your person as you may construct) per se and I thought, that I made this clear) are as off-topic as the general discussion about DC and PB.
It's now the second time that you project a comment of mine to the wrong quote. Could it be, that you are not carefully reading, what you are critisizing up to?
The labelling comment was referring to:
... if you are not seeing his movies as you say, I am seriously asking myself, how could you possibly be able to rate his acting skills :v
I have said, that he's an exceptionally nice man and I still find your personal go on him inappropriate as well as I don't like the same thing done by others.
And as I have said: You like QoS: Good!
And you like DC: Good! Me too!
P.S. LB: I think, that I have made my point very clear now. If you have further question, read my posts again.
I'll not reply to any of your comments on my posts here again. Don't regard this as weakness, it's just that I don't enjoy to repeat myself.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Just left the midnight showing- I loved it. Bond is a cold *******- just how I like him.