I don't think a few mil one way or the other will cause EON to recast Bond. If that were true (and following the inverse), we'd be writing reviews of how great/sucky Brosnan was in QOS.
QOS is a hit. In a recession - which is worldwide, and has affected exchange rates in regards to the dollar. QOS is doing slightly less biz in the states than CR, but more in other countries (or so I've read). Using May/June '08 exchange rates instead of Nov/Dec exchange rates, QOS is ahead of CR for worldwide total. So if the recession had not hit till after QOS's theatrical run, we'd be seeing quite different (ie adjusted up) totals. Quite a difference a couple months make.
I don't think a few mil one way or the other will cause EON to recast Bond.
No, not immediately. If the next film continues a downward trend, depending on how large the slide is, they may change tack. Or perhaps the one after that.
I don't think a few mil one way or the other will cause EON to recast Bond.
No, not immediately. If the next film continues a downward trend, depending on how large the slide is, they may change tack. Or perhaps the one after that.
As I said above, I predicted back in September that QoS would make less money than CR. Then the next Craig film will make less again- unless EON start putting back the Bond elements people (by which I mean the general viewing public) are missing, and make a big PR thing out of that.
As I said above, I predicted back in September that QoS would make less money than CR. Then the next Craig film will make less again- unless EON start putting back the Bond elements people (by which I mean the general viewing public) are missing, and make a big PR thing out of that.
Kinda funny, but if you use the exchange rates from just before you made that prediction, QOS would already be ahead of CR. $$$ may be slightly down from CR's but admissions are up (from comparative dates in their respective runs). Or so I've read, and makes sense to me.
Wonder if the suits at EON/Sony are thinking QOS represents the downward slide you think it does... guess time will tell.
I think it's rare for Eon to say "that worked! Let's do it again!" If that were the case, CR would have been much more like DAD in tone. Eon doesn't try to create new films on past success, but rather makes success by basing a film on audience trends. CR and QoS have done well, but Eon will not keeping re-hashing the same stuff over and over. My guess is that Eon has found that four films with one actor is enough to keep the series fresh for newer audiences, so I'd expect to see Craig do two more films and they'll swap him out. If QoS is perceived by the producers to have not done as well, it won't be laid at Craig's feet (and it shouldn't be). I think it has more to do with the less generally-accessible style of the film.
If QoS is perceived by the producers to have not done as well, it won't be laid at Craig's feet (and it shouldn't be). I think it has more to do with the less generally-accessible style of the film.
I think maybe I've been unclear above. I'm not singling out Craig- he's only one factor in the less-traditional feel of the last two films. Replacing him with a more, er, traditional-looking actor would simply be one part of bringing back the PCF elements which I (and I do not think I'm alone) firmly believe will be back within a handful of films.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
I think maybe I've been unclear above. I'm not singling out Craig- he's only one factor in the less-traditional feel of the last two films. Replacing him with a more, er, traditional-looking actor would simply be one part of bringing back the PCF elements which I (and I do not think I'm alone) firmly believe will be back within a handful of films.
This would probably be true regardless of box office results. The pendulum will begin to swing back, I think; the only question is how quickly or slowly---and Craig will have the role until he tires of it :007)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I think the pendulum will begin swinging back as early as Bond 23. This film will be the equivalent of GF in Craig's tenure: more spectacle, more humor, more gadgetry (maybe), a lighter tone overall, and even the return of at least one of the traditional characters (Q, Moneypenny).
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
I think the pendulum will begin swinging back as early as Bond 23. This film will be the equivalent of GF in Craig's tenure: more spectacle, more humor, more gadgetry (maybe), a lighter tone overall, and even the return of at least one of the traditional characters (Q, Moneypenny).
A highly intriguing notion, frost. If so, it could be huge if done right. I don't have the reflexive loathing of many elements of the Precious Classic FormulaTM that others might---I just want it done right. Like nitroglycerine and Everclear, the PCF must be treated with respect instead of abandon. Just a little can make all the difference, and I think Craigger can help the producers find a balance.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Correction: Craig will have the role until Craig tires of it, Eon tires of him, or the general public tires of him...whichever comes first.
I happen to believe Craig will tire of it long before either of the other two things happen Opinions, as ever, will unsurprisingly vary, and the future will tell.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
it could be huge if done right. I don't have the reflexive loathing of many elements of the Precious Classic FormulaTM that others might---I just want it done right. Like nitroglycerine and Everclear, the PCF must be treated with respect instead of abandon. Just a little can make all the difference, and I think Craigger can help the producers find a balance.
Y'know, I think you've hit the nail on the head here, Loeff. It's got to be done just right (and frostbitten, can I agree with your GF example and add TSWLM?). As long as it's treated with the right degree of respect and a delicate balance it could be a classic in the hands of the right director. I guess that lets out Forster and Tamahori, then; Campbell, anyone?
I didn't think about TSWLM, Barbel, but you're absolutely correct to make that comparison, IMO.
As far as the director, Campbell would be great, but I'm still praying for Fincher. (Judging by the critical acclaim for The Curious Case of Benjamin Button), he is still at the top of his game, and Eon should try to get his services for B23).
CR was $144.9 Million after 39 days in the US (that's including more holiday showings).
:007)
Kinda doubt EON is thinking of dusting off the invisible car just yet... (heck, they forgot where they parked it and can't find the dang thing!).
Fincher, while an incredible genius, is noted as very hard to get along with, doubt EON even glances his way.
Rian Johnson would be a good choice, does genre extremely well and has a great dramatic touch, also very good with humor as a side dish. Brick is on DVD now, his sophomore effort The Brothers Bloom, a caper flick with Adrian Brody and Rachel Weitz, has been getting such good buzz it's release got bumped from the over-crowded winter market to March. Kinda doubt he'd do a Bond, but if EON could snag him he'd be a very solid choice for a GF-like Bond film.
CR was $144.9 Million after 39 days in the US (that's including more holiday showings).
:007)
I don't fault your optimism, blue! $161 mill is nothing to sneeze at (and that's just the domestic U.S. gross!) However, QoS drop in box office revenue is much steeper than CR's after the initial release. With new films hitting theaters this Christmas, QoS is getting squeezed out of theaters and is running out of opportunity to grab those final millions! I'm sure Eon is satisfied, though, with the results thus far...but I suspect they won't be asking Forster back.
Kinda doubt EON is thinking of dusting off the invisible car just yet... (heck, they forgot where they parked it and can't find the dang thing!).
Fincher, while an incredible genius, is noted as very hard to get along with, doubt EON even glances his way.
I also don't think that the pendulum will ever swing back that far. However, a gradual reintroduction of humor and gadgetry (albeit small-scale, not too OTT gadgets) is inevitable, IMO. There's nothing wrong with that either. Real spies use "gadgets" all the time (I remember reading about KGB assassins using cigarette cases that fired bullets filled with poison!)
About Fincher being difficult to work with, that shouldn't deter Eon, especially in this era, where the producers were pretty much giving Forster carte blanche to do what he wanted to with QoS.
If I were in the producers' shoes, I wouldn't worry about giving someone like Fincher total artistic control over the film. When working with the best, one must be prepared to accept their ... eccentricities.
As I've not been particularly impressed with EON's experiments involving arthouse directors,I'd much rather they consider Louis Leterrier(The Transporter 3,The Incredible Hulk).His style--which is similar(yet different) to that of Terence Young and Martin Campbell--would,I believe,be an ideal fit with the world of 007.
Darenhat, what you call a steeper BO drop for QOS I think of as the same number of people seeing the film as CR but going to see it earlier in the run. Glass half full.
And as for Fincher, frosty, just not sure EON would trust him, Forster was given latitude cuz Mickey and Babs believed in what he was doing with Bond, from what I've read of that relationship. And I get the impression Forster is a people person who inspires that kinda trust. Fincher is more in the bad-boy mold, the "I'm a genius go away and leave me alone!" type... not sure that would go over well in Bond's world. I mean they got that kinda quality without the hassle with Forster, bet they go for somebody similar.
I liked the Hulk that Leterrier did, willie, but getting him for Bond would be a big step backwards IMO. He'd turn in something serviceable... which yeah, wouldn't be bad, but he's certainly no Forster.
It's going to be very interesting where EON goes with 23. Craig has said in recent and past interviews that the Bond charactor will develope or mature into a more finished product with each film. With 23 at this point looking not to be the third in a trilogy but more of a stand alone entry, EON has more freedom to reintroduce some more of the classic elements. The folks at EON are not fools...you don't have the longest running, most successful film series of all time if you misjudge and make alot of mistakes. QOS has been a great boxoffice success but EON nowadays seems to want to stay a step ahead and ensure the longevity of the series. That's why IMO they chose not to use Forster's original ending which would have forced them into another direct sequel. I agree with the prediction that 23 will be the equivalent of "Goldfinger" in style and scope. I'm sure EON was very satisfied with the results of QOS both artistically and at the box office but they know not to push the envelope too far.
How bullet-proof is the new Bond? This is pretty eye-opening: QOS is already #8 for the year at the US BO, CR finished up at #9 in 2006. Also, the last two Brosnan Bonds finished solidly outside the top 10 (#14 and #12, respectively). Seems EON certainly "fixed" things with the reboot, Craig looks to be the most successful Bond since Moore's haydays.
BOM's Christmas estimates have QoS dropping all the way down to #19 (of course, it's now playing in only 800-plus American theaters) and that it has now earned close to $163 m. As blueman observes, though, the film's status as one of the top-ten grossers of the year is nice consolation--though, as I said before, whether it finishes #8 or #9 depends on Twilight. Guess we'll know for sure next week!
Vox clamantis in deserto
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
Glad it hung around through Christmas...
I'd love to be a fly on the wall as Michael G. and Barbara review the final tallies, and plan for the future...
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I think Forster's latitude is relative in terms of what a Bond director gets. I would use a parallel with Roger Spottiswoode, in the sense that he was given a certain amount of latitude with regard to key production elements, but it was, and always will be, a producer's movie. A "for example" would be David Arnold's continued presence as composer; one senses that no matter what Forster felt, he had a DA score whether he liked it or not. Bond is one of those few examples where the producers are more famous than the directors, and with good cause.
To return to the Box Office - and I admit that this is shameless shadenfreude - Twilight did not do well in its first weekend in the UK; it made a third less than the predicted figures. QOS is still hanging on in there, and it has the 3rd place for 2008 clearly within its sights. The Number 1 is Mamma Mia!, and for that, I apologise profusely.
According to Yahoo.com's year end box office summary, QoS's take has moved Bond into #2 on the list of highest grossing franchises, behind only Star Wars.
The latest from BOM: those teeny-bopper vampires finally passed QoS, making Bond the ninth highest-grossing film of the year--and there it will stay, since nothing that's out now is anywhere near QoS's take. Also, apparently QoS moved up from the week's #19 movie to #17.
Comments
QOS is a hit. In a recession - which is worldwide, and has affected exchange rates in regards to the dollar. QOS is doing slightly less biz in the states than CR, but more in other countries (or so I've read). Using May/June '08 exchange rates instead of Nov/Dec exchange rates, QOS is ahead of CR for worldwide total. So if the recession had not hit till after QOS's theatrical run, we'd be seeing quite different (ie adjusted up) totals. Quite a difference a couple months make.
I don't make up the fuzzy math, I just share it.
No, not immediately. If the next film continues a downward trend, depending on how large the slide is, they may change tack. Or perhaps the one after that.
What's this downward trend you speak of? ?:)
As I said above, I predicted back in September that QoS would make less money than CR. Then the next Craig film will make less again- unless EON start putting back the Bond elements people (by which I mean the general viewing public) are missing, and make a big PR thing out of that.
Kinda funny, but if you use the exchange rates from just before you made that prediction, QOS would already be ahead of CR. $$$ may be slightly down from CR's but admissions are up (from comparative dates in their respective runs). Or so I've read, and makes sense to me.
Wonder if the suits at EON/Sony are thinking QOS represents the downward slide you think it does... guess time will tell.
Yup, time will tell. The difference doesn't seem to be much to speak of at the moment- it's after Bond 23 that they'll assess the situation, IMO.
I think maybe I've been unclear above. I'm not singling out Craig- he's only one factor in the less-traditional feel of the last two films. Replacing him with a more, er, traditional-looking actor would simply be one part of bringing back the PCF elements which I (and I do not think I'm alone) firmly believe will be back within a handful of films.
This would probably be true regardless of box office results. The pendulum will begin to swing back, I think; the only question is how quickly or slowly---and Craig will have the role until he tires of it :007)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
A highly intriguing notion, frost. If so, it could be huge if done right. I don't have the reflexive loathing of many elements of the Precious Classic FormulaTM that others might---I just want it done right. Like nitroglycerine and Everclear, the PCF must be treated with respect instead of abandon. Just a little can make all the difference, and I think Craigger can help the producers find a balance.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Correction: Craig will have the role until Craig tires of it, Eon tires of him, or the general public tires of him...whichever comes first.
I happen to believe Craig will tire of it long before either of the other two things happen
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Y'know, I think you've hit the nail on the head here, Loeff. It's got to be done just right (and frostbitten, can I agree with your GF example and add TSWLM?). As long as it's treated with the right degree of respect and a delicate balance it could be a classic in the hands of the right director. I guess that lets out Forster and Tamahori, then; Campbell, anyone?
As far as the director, Campbell would be great, but I'm still praying for Fincher. (Judging by the critical acclaim for The Curious Case of Benjamin Button), he is still at the top of his game, and Eon should try to get his services for B23).
QOS is at $161.7 Million after 39 days in the US.
CR was $144.9 Million after 39 days in the US (that's including more holiday showings).
Kinda doubt EON is thinking of dusting off the invisible car just yet... (heck, they forgot where they parked it and can't find the dang thing!).
Fincher, while an incredible genius, is noted as very hard to get along with, doubt EON even glances his way.
Rian Johnson would be a good choice, does genre extremely well and has a great dramatic touch, also very good with humor as a side dish. Brick is on DVD now, his sophomore effort The Brothers Bloom, a caper flick with Adrian Brody and Rachel Weitz, has been getting such good buzz it's release got bumped from the over-crowded winter market to March. Kinda doubt he'd do a Bond, but if EON could snag him he'd be a very solid choice for a GF-like Bond film.
I don't fault your optimism, blue! $161 mill is nothing to sneeze at (and that's just the domestic U.S. gross!) However, QoS drop in box office revenue is much steeper than CR's after the initial release. With new films hitting theaters this Christmas, QoS is getting squeezed out of theaters and is running out of opportunity to grab those final millions! I'm sure Eon is satisfied, though, with the results thus far...but I suspect they won't be asking Forster back.
I also don't think that the pendulum will ever swing back that far. However, a gradual reintroduction of humor and gadgetry (albeit small-scale, not too OTT gadgets) is inevitable, IMO. There's nothing wrong with that either. Real spies use "gadgets" all the time (I remember reading about KGB assassins using cigarette cases that fired bullets filled with poison!)
About Fincher being difficult to work with, that shouldn't deter Eon, especially in this era, where the producers were pretty much giving Forster carte blanche to do what he wanted to with QoS.
If I were in the producers' shoes, I wouldn't worry about giving someone like Fincher total artistic control over the film. When working with the best, one must be prepared to accept their ... eccentricities.
And as for Fincher, frosty, just not sure EON would trust him, Forster was given latitude cuz Mickey and Babs believed in what he was doing with Bond, from what I've read of that relationship. And I get the impression Forster is a people person who inspires that kinda trust. Fincher is more in the bad-boy mold, the "I'm a genius go away and leave me alone!" type... not sure that would go over well in Bond's world. I mean they got that kinda quality without the hassle with Forster, bet they go for somebody similar.
I liked the Hulk that Leterrier did, willie, but getting him for Bond would be a big step backwards IMO. He'd turn in something serviceable... which yeah, wouldn't be bad, but he's certainly no Forster.
Take that, Ebert! :v
I'd love to be a fly on the wall as Michael G. and Barbara review the final tallies, and plan for the future...
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
To return to the Box Office - and I admit that this is shameless shadenfreude - Twilight did not do well in its first weekend in the UK; it made a third less than the predicted figures. QOS is still hanging on in there, and it has the 3rd place for 2008 clearly within its sights. The Number 1 is Mamma Mia!, and for that, I apologise profusely.
@merseytart
Yahoo Top 10 Grossing Movies of 2008