The Great Ebay Thread.

danjaq_0ff

Returningson wrote:

texas007 wrote:

Returningson wrote:

remember, its not what you know. its what you can prove.

what you know is important in this case

no, not really. Everything has to have solid pedigree and actual, physical provenance. There are people who buy based on "inner knowledge" and I have first hand experience dealing with screen used items (I had in my possesion a certain stars leather motorcycle jacket that appeared in a flick) and getting solid authentication is hard but without it you can only go so far. Not knockin' the authenticity of the items (probably real just saying that is all comes down to your evidence and so far everything Ive seen is circumstantial at best. Otherwise you can never truly know. And the guy's feedback doesnt help his case at all)

You obviously don't know much about props provenance is usually word of mouth in theses cases, do you really think they would supply evidence as to how they acquired the item ) in collecting you should learn to know what you are looking at and someone with Kans knowledge owns far more items than a leather jacket -{

Returningson

sorry but you dont know much about props. Anyone can craft a story, claim to have connections, etc etc. You are exactly the person who gets swindled because you 'think' you know what you are looking at and believe the guy's story. And yes, if the individual plans to sell them they should acquire evidence. And if they cant (due to any number of legal reasons that float around in the movie industry) then they are not allowed to be resold but most of the time its total BS and people like you believe it. Maybe you are right but the burden of proof is on you (if you buy them and try to showcase/sell them) and the seller to show they were actually used in the film. If you cant then they are an after market replica with no real value. Trust me, ask any real collector and they will tell you the same thing. I could go out and buy a TF shanghai tux and say "yeah, I have connections in the film industry and I can swear this is the tux worn by Daniel Craig. All Im asking is $50,000". Who here on the forum would actually spring to buy this based solely on my story? No one. And if someone does please point them out so I can make a quick buck. I feel sorry for ya bud but you are just totally wrong. Provence is needed to back up any story. Again, to be clear i have no idea if these are fake or not but everything presented tells me they are not legit especially with the guy's gloriously positive feedback

and to know nothing about props, wrong there. GO look up my posts under the same screen name on the rpf. Boom

Returningson

and just to cap it off, my ol friend Rick from Pawn Stars sums it up best:

"Documentation is EVERYTHING"

MANDY1

I know you're gonna eat those words about documentation etc. etc.
danjaq_0ff has been and IS a well-respected member of this board long before you joined to the AJB.

Returningson

i dont. Again, im not throwing anyone under the bus here but its simple: documentation needs to be provided. You guys can believe any story you want but to convince anybody is something else entirely and impossible to do without evidence. Im new here but not to the RPF (member since 2007) and a well respected member of filmjackets where Ive met with big players in hollywood, met with various hollywood costume designers and have handled/owned major pieces of film memorabilia so I think im not a newb when it comes to these things.

Returningson

also well respected member of Club Obi Wan as well so Ive been around the block.

and again I state I have no dog in this fight. I really dont care one way or another if these are real or not just offering my opinion (which is a very practical and common one) that you need documentation on these. You either have to be crazy, dull or have a brass pair to pay through the roof for something without any validity.

MANDY1

Knowing who to trust IS everything in this business, nearly everybody can make a false documentation -{

Returningson

People can fake bad documentation, true. Good, signed legitimate provence with contact information and a paper trail? Thats VERY hard to fake

and I agree knowing who to trust is important. And the first person I think of wouldnt be a seller who shows a supposed shadowed self portrait and has a ZERO feedback rating -{

MANDY1

I'll rest my case here, since this IS not the place to discuss. -{

Returningson

its cool just to have a discussion. Bond props are not my field and perhaps these are legit. Maybe your man can uncover the evidence to prove that they are, I really dont know. I just go by what I see and its not much. Good luck to anyone diggin for the truth on these.

Gadget Meister

All I can add here is that generally what Returningson says is correct with regard to the vast majority of movie props. In this instance the chips or tokens are made by Cartimundi and are available cheaply anywhere, not guaranteed to be screen used and any paperwork saying so should only be taken at face value unless from an unimpeachable source BUT in the case of the casino plaques or jetons, Returningson doesn't know squat. You may know props but you don't know casino instruments. These are made by B et G and are as hard to fake as real currency. You only have to hold one in your hand to know they are genuine and given that B et G were contracted to produce these plaques, they would be treated, security wise, just like currency. Once in the producers hands on set these plaques would as Pete says be rigorously accounted for and there were signs all over Pinewood during the production, aimed at the crew and extras, that any removal of any props would be regarded as theft. Obviously things can still slip out as the ones in question probably did. One things for sure, no-ones going to be able to fabricate good enough fakes to be able to justify the cost and I'm talking Plaques not chips, otherwise casinos would be going bust all over the world.

Quite happy to be corrected by Kan here, but don't presume, especially on this board, that you know best, a lot of us know our stuff.

The Bond Experience

Probably should let this discussion die down, but will throw in that Danjaq-Off is one of a handful of people on this board that I would trust without question when it comes to matters such as these...sometimes it's what behind the scenes and not in print on these boards that creates the foundation of knowledge...that's not to question your experience with props, Returningson, just saying this to bolster Danjaq-Off's credibility in these matters especially as they pertain to Bond.

danjaq_0ff

Returningson wrote:

sorry but you dont know much about props. Anyone can craft a story, claim to have connections, etc etc. You are exactly the person who gets swindled because you 'think' you know what you are looking at and believe the guy's story. And yes, if the individual plans to sell them they should acquire evidence. And if they cant (due to any number of legal reasons that float around in the movie industry) then they are not allowed to be resold but most of the time its total BS and people like you believe it. Maybe you are right but the burden of proof is on you (if you buy them and try to showcase/sell them) and the seller to show they were actually used in the film. If you cant then they are an after market replica with no real value. Trust me, ask any real collector and they will tell you the same thing. I could go out and buy a TF shanghai tux and say "yeah, I have connections in the film industry and I can swear this is the tux worn by Daniel Craig. All Im asking is $50,000". Who here on the forum would actually spring to buy this based solely on my story? No one. And if someone does please point them out so I can make a quick buck. I feel sorry for ya bud but you are just totally wrong. Provence is needed to back up any story. Again, to be clear i have no idea if these are fake or not but everything presented tells me they are not legit especially with the guy's gloriously positive feedback

and to know nothing about props, wrong there. GO look up my posts under the same screen name on the rpf. Boom

I could give you provenance for DC under ware )

Like I said before, unless you are gifted these things, or win them in an auction that EON listed, THEY ARE STOLEN.

Now, I have all sorts of things that I have been gifted from EON, but ****, they didnt give me a certificate for them, they must be giving me fakes to huh

Stick to collecting your clothes, and don't go lecturing people that actually know something, when you don't.


Thanks Teppo, and very kind words from Dave Z -{

Higgins

danjaq_0ff wrote:

Now, I have all sorts of things that I have been gifted from EON, but ****, they didnt give me a certificate for them, they must be giving me fakes to huh

I always had that feeling when I've seen your items - I mean - that mass and quality simply could not be real!

But if you feel better, I can give you a fake certificate for them - how's that? :v

Higgins

The Mantis wrote:

, just saying this to bolster Danjaq-Off's credibility in these matters especially as they pertain to Bond.

But don't ask him ever anything about watches - even Asp9mm knows more about them

ics

He he yes Markus we knew that Petes massive impressive collection was fake…
)

On a side note – this discussion in a ebay thread ?

Gadget Meister

But don't ask him ever anything about watches - even Asp9mm knows more about them

Hell, Dell Deaton knows more

danjaq_0ff

Bondtoys wrote:

danjaq_0ff wrote:

Now, I have all sorts of things that I have been gifted from EON, but ****, they didnt give me a certificate for them, they must be giving me fakes to huh

I always had that feeling when I've seen your items - I mean - that mass and quality simply could not be real!

But if you feel better, I can give you a fake certificate for them - how's that? :v

Cool mate )

things like that come in handy, especially when you run out of toilet paper

danjaq_0ff

ics wrote:

He he yes Markus we knew that Petes massive impressive collection was fake…
)

On a side note – this discussion in a ebay thread ?

Not to matter, the forum fairy waves his magic wand and clears away discussions in a flash

danjaq_0ff

Is Markus secretly Dell Deaton like Teppo is secretly Mandy

Higgins

ssssssst!

no reason to insult me that hard

danjaq_0ff

Did your teeth fall out mate, that was a funny noise

Higgins

no, that makes pffffffft.

But that sound was insulting recently, so, I've created a new one

danjaq_0ff

Bondtoys wrote:

ssssssst!

no reason to insult me that hard

I thought he was a hero of yours, taught you everything you know about swatch watches

Higgins

I know nothing about Swatch watches :v

danjaq_0ff

uh huh )

The Domino Effect

The mantra of "Documentation is everything" is often a lazy retort from collectors/dealers who lack the experience or who can't be bothered to do the leg work to become experts themselves. I have seen almost as many fake or worthless COAs/paper trails as I have seen fake or worthless collectables over the past 10 years. I have seen major dealers turn down unquestionably authentic items only because they lacked paperwork...and I have seen major dealers selling unquestionably and simply awful fakes only because they had paperwork. I am no expert in props or movie collectables but I am an expert in another field and what I know of that field holds true here as well: laziness and a complete reliance on paperwork has undermined the true experts who have done the tireless work and research.

Higgins

may I add, that the only legitimate people for James Bond props are EON.

So, unless you have an EON issued certificate, everything else leaves you with a quantum of doubt.
And Eon only gives out certificates in context with their charity auctions which don't happen very often.

So, let's put that documentation thing to where it belongs.

danjaq_0ff

Look Donk is bending over

ppw3o6r

danjaq_0ff wrote:

Look Donk is bending over

Mate if you can get that area EON endorsed.....I'll bend )