Higgins, you may think I am crazy, but in my country crazy people can legally get guns. Do not piss off crazy Americans. )
(The preceding was a JOKE, not to be confused with SERIOUSNESS)
(The author of this bit of levity assumes no responsibility for violence directed towards people in real life)
(Actual threats are condemned by chrisisall, his parent company and affiliates)
(chrisiall is a trademark of American Cowboy Mentality Inc. (c) 2005)
(Any similarity between chrisisall and actual persons is purely coincidental)
[
I've heard several stories as to why LTK wasn't the BO hit previous Bond films. Was it really the Lethal Weapon and Die Hard movies that muscled James Bond out of the game? I also heard stories of MGM's financial troubles at the time that put the Bond on ice for a few years.
There is a popular approach, that moviegoers in the 80s had to pick one out of the big releases and thus the big movies cannibalised each other.
I don't follow that! In my opinion, the upcoming Of Leathal weapon and others would have raised interest in cinema in general to all competitors would have benefitted from a better market.
Just one example: You have a normal food market with one high end shop.
If they decide to move to a high-end market (in London that would be Borrough's Market for example) it could be good for them instead of fearing to be cannibalised by the competitors. If their product is good - they will succeed in an upscale market.
The same should have happened with a decent Bond. Raiders, Leathal weapon and Die Hard succeeded - why not Bond as the big player in that field?
To add to my previous post on this thread, it's great to see Q get more screen time, but the scene where he talks to Pam Bouvier on the broom radio makes him look like a hypocrite! After all the times he's told Bond to look after his gadgets, he throws the broom in the bushes. It's meant to be played for laughs, but it irks me.
Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"
I think that you are totally nuts and your wish to turn off the ABS on your car gives me good reason for that
Professional drivers like I have no need of interference in vehicle control... but ABS actually helps older and untrained drivers with impaired sight & reflexes. You must really love your ABS then-? )
The very Bond films I love the most (like the 80's) are ranked at the bottom? I don't care, because they are awesome. If the public didn't appreciate the serious take on Bond films back then then that's fine.
If the public didn't appreciate the serious take on Bond films back then then that's fine.
Myth or fact?
IMO, the public had a problem with Dalton himself and not with his more serious take on Bond -no matter how often it's pointed out by his fanboys *
As an example, you may have a look at the success of the "Die Hard" movies. They hardly pass under the "non-serious" label.
*other popular explanations by that group are the lack of advertising budgets and Dalton's haircut.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
If the public didn't appreciate the serious take on Bond films back then then that's fine.
Myth or fact?
IMO, the public had a problem with Dalton himself and not with his more serious take on Bond -no matter how often it's pointed out by his fanboys *
As an example, you may have a look at the success of the "Die Hard" movies. They hardly pass under the "non-serious" label.
*other popular explanations by that group are the lack of advertising budgets and Dalton's haircut.
But Wadsy didn't write that the audience wasn't ready fro serious movies - he wrote that the audiance wasn't ready for serious Bond films!
You simply got his post wrong.
If the public didn't appreciate the serious take on Bond films back then then that's fine.
Myth or fact?
IMO, the public had a problem with Dalton himself and not with his more serious take on Bond -no matter how often it's pointed out by his fanboys *
As an example, you may have a look at the success of the "Die Hard" movies. They hardly pass under the "non-serious" label.
*other popular explanations by that group are the lack of advertising budgets and Dalton's haircut.
This isn't just about Dalton. What about For Your Eyes Only?
Timothy Dalton suffered from the general loss in interest in Bond in the 80's. It went downhill from film to film culminating in LTK being the least successful in 1989.
Imho, that had nothing to do with Dalton. Had Brosnan taken over in 1987 it may not have gone done differently.
The 6 year hiatus from 1989 to 1995 saved the franchise in my opinion. And of course Brosnan was ready and the right man in 1995.
To put the blame on Tim is silly imo. He could have taken over in 1981 and nothing would have been different success wise.
Timothy Dalton suffered from the general loss in interest in Bond in the 80's. It went downhill from film to film culminating in LTK being the least successful in 1989.
Imho, that had nothing to do with Dalton. Had Brosnan taken over in 1987 it may not have gone done differently.
The 6 year hiatus from 1989 to 1995 saved the franchise in my opinion. And of course Brosnan was ready and the right man in 1995.
To put the blame on Tim is silly imo. He could have taken over in 1981 and nothing would have been different success wise.
I'm a dyed in the wool Daltonista, but agree that Brozzer would probably fared better with the movie going public except for one issue. He looked on the edge of too boyish in GE hence the experiments with stubble to butch him up a bit. Other than that much as I am a fanboy, even I can see that he (Dalton) had little chemistry with females (this somehow has never impacted upon DC's popularity despite his equal lack of connection or charm) but it was certainly a problem for Dalton. I think that this might be explained by although having little evident chemisty enough women seem to think he' (DC) is 'hot' (Mrs Zaphod notwithstanding) Brozzer may well have fared better as he is more likeable than both.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
Brozzer may well have fared better as he is more likeable than both.
I was pumped for the Broz back in '85-6. When it was announced he lost the role due to NBC I was big timed bummed. And this DID affect how I received Dalton at that time. I was not the fan of him back then that I am today.
This isn't just about Dalton. What about For Your Eyes Only?
Well, FYEO brought significantly more money to EON than any Dalton movie did.
Following N24's argument, people where much better ready for a serious Bond film by Roger Moore than 6 years later by Dalton.
1981 it was much more difficult to set a serious tone in a movie (and in a Bond movie) then in 1987/89.
As far as I remember, "First Blood" was a game changer in terms of realistic violence, serious tone and grittiness.
You can turn it like you want, audiences did not accept DALTON - and it had little to do with his take on Bond (as a matter of fact his serious approach prevented him to totally going down imo), his clothing, his haircut, the competition or the lack of marketing.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
FYEO with a more serious approach to Bond grossed significantly higher then any Dalton movie. And thst was much sooner -even before First Blood which changed suspense and action movie formula dramatically. Prior to First Blood any action movie had to integrate some comedic elements and 'soft violence' to be successfully
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The Bond films in Germany from 1967* to 2015:
*sadly, before 1966 neither ticket sales nor box office figures exist for Germany ticket sales = number of tickets sold
tickets sold / film / rank in year
9.000.000 YOLT (most successful film of the year)
4.000.000 OHMSS (5th place)
5.500.000 DAF (3rd place)
6.000.000 LALD (4th place)
4.500.000 TMWTGG (4th place)
7.200.000 TSWLM (2nd place, lost to Disney's The Rescuers)
5.300.000 MR (3rd place)
4.820.641 FYEO (3rd place)
4.324.692 OP (3rd place)
3.583.930 NSNA (5th place)
3.373.064 AVTAK (8th place)
3.106.367 TLD (6th place)
2.472.732 LTK (10th place)
5.501.310 GE (2nd place, lost to Babe)
4.477.102 TND (4th place, suffered greatly against Titanic!)
5.072.138 TWINE (4th place)
4.940.255 DAD (7th place)**
5.461.490 CR (5th place)
4.744.130 QOS (2nd place, lost to Madagascar 2)
7.779.654 SF (2nd place, lost to Intouchables, French film)
7.089.019 SP (3rd place)
**No other Bond film ever faced this kind of competition, DAD beaten by Lord Of The Rings, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Ice Age, Spider-Man, Men In Black
with 9.000.000 YOLT is the most successful
therefore let's see which films sold more tickets from 1965 to 2017: it's a short list
1969 Once Upon A Time In The West 13.000.000
1972 Trinity Is Still My Name 11.300.000
1990 Pretty Woman 10.625.337
1993 Jurassic Park 9.367.216
1994 The Lion King 11.333.217
1996 Independence Day 9.258.993
1998 Titanic 18.081.331
2001 Harry Potter I, 12.565.007
2001 Lord Of The Rings I, 11.833.420
2002 Harry Potter II, 9.702.824
2002 Lord Of The Rings II, 10.692.798
2003 Lord Of The Rings III, 10.432.470
2009 Avatar 11.292.801
2012 Intouchables (French film) 9.140.334
2015 Star Wars TFA 9.018.037
Not even E.T. or any original Star Wars sold more tickets. Dirty Dancing came close with 8.700.000
Allow me to comment:
It becomes totally clear that GoldenEye saved the franchise in 1995.
Daniel Craig only with SF became more successful than Brosnan.
Timothy Dalton's run suffered from the steady loss of interest in Bond in the 80s and had little to do with the actor who was welcomed very well in the German-language era.
FYEO with a more serious approach to Bond grossed significantly higher then any Dalton movie. And thst was much sooner -even before First Blood which changed suspense and action movie formula dramatically. Prior to First Blood any action movie had to integrate some comedic elements and 'soft violence' to be successfully
FYEO wasn't nearly as serious as LTK. I'm not sure First Blood changed that much. There has always been a large market for both light-hearted and serious action movies.
FYEO wasn't nearly as serious as LTK. I'm not sure First Blood changed that much. There has always been a large market for both light-hearted and serious action movies.
Please give me examples for serious 1970/80 action movies which made it into the top 15 prior to First Blood.
Thank you!
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
FYEO wasn't nearly as serious as LTK. I'm not sure First Blood changed that much. There has always been a large market for both light-hearted and serious action movies.
Please give me examples for serious 1970/80 action movies which made it into the top 15 prior to First Blood.
Thank you!
Conan the barbarian? Came out same year as first blood
FYEO wasn't nearly as serious as LTK. I'm not sure First Blood changed that much. There has always been a large market for both light-hearted and serious action movies.
Please give me examples for serious 1970/80 action movies which made it into the top 15 prior to First Blood.
Dirty Harry
Deathwish
Magnum Force
Deliverance
The Getaway
The Enforcer
Thanks!!!
Imo that only strengthens my point. The mentioned movies were much earlier (early - mid 1970) then First Blood and imo only ranked high because of the old well-known battleships (Eastwood, Reynolds etc) pulled those movies up.
Imagine their success without a male lead.
First Blood was something completely new and a gamechanger in action movies in the cinema though Stallone was also well known from Rocky I admit.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Comments
Q- Ah there you are, Double O Seventy, now plug in your hearing aid and pay attention. This guitar converts to a motorboat...
Is not everything when the total numbers are tanking because the main actor is nit accepted by the audience
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
(The preceding was a JOKE, not to be confused with SERIOUSNESS)
(The author of this bit of levity assumes no responsibility for violence directed towards people in real life)
(Actual threats are condemned by chrisisall, his parent company and affiliates)
(chrisiall is a trademark of American Cowboy Mentality Inc. (c) 2005)
(Any similarity between chrisisall and actual persons is purely coincidental)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Great post, mate. Thanks Higgins.
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
Well, that would be too polite
I think that you are totally nuts and your wish to turn off the ABS on your car gives me good reason for that
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
Myth or fact?
IMO, the public had a problem with Dalton himself and not with his more serious take on Bond -no matter how often it's pointed out by his fanboys *
As an example, you may have a look at the success of the "Die Hard" movies. They hardly pass under the "non-serious" label.
*other popular explanations by that group are the lack of advertising budgets and Dalton's haircut.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
But Wadsy didn't write that the audience wasn't ready fro serious movies - he wrote that the audiance wasn't ready for serious Bond films!
You simply got his post wrong.
This isn't just about Dalton. What about For Your Eyes Only?
Imho, that had nothing to do with Dalton. Had Brosnan taken over in 1987 it may not have gone done differently.
The 6 year hiatus from 1989 to 1995 saved the franchise in my opinion. And of course Brosnan was ready and the right man in 1995.
To put the blame on Tim is silly imo. He could have taken over in 1981 and nothing would have been different success wise.
I'm a dyed in the wool Daltonista, but agree that Brozzer would probably fared better with the movie going public except for one issue. He looked on the edge of too boyish in GE hence the experiments with stubble to butch him up a bit. Other than that much as I am a fanboy, even I can see that he (Dalton) had little chemistry with females (this somehow has never impacted upon DC's popularity despite his equal lack of connection or charm) but it was certainly a problem for Dalton. I think that this might be explained by although having little evident chemisty enough women seem to think he' (DC) is 'hot' (Mrs Zaphod notwithstanding) Brozzer may well have fared better as he is more likeable than both.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Well, FYEO brought significantly more money to EON than any Dalton movie did.
Following N24's argument, people where much better ready for a serious Bond film by Roger Moore than 6 years later by Dalton.
1981 it was much more difficult to set a serious tone in a movie (and in a Bond movie) then in 1987/89.
As far as I remember, "First Blood" was a game changer in terms of realistic violence, serious tone and grittiness.
You can turn it like you want, audiences did not accept DALTON - and it had little to do with his take on Bond (as a matter of fact his serious approach prevented him to totally going down imo), his clothing, his haircut, the competition or the lack of marketing.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Please explain ......
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
*sadly, before 1966 neither ticket sales nor box office figures exist for Germany
ticket sales = number of tickets sold
tickets sold / film / rank in year
9.000.000 YOLT (most successful film of the year)
4.000.000 OHMSS (5th place)
5.500.000 DAF (3rd place)
6.000.000 LALD (4th place)
4.500.000 TMWTGG (4th place)
7.200.000 TSWLM (2nd place, lost to Disney's The Rescuers)
5.300.000 MR (3rd place)
4.820.641 FYEO (3rd place)
4.324.692 OP (3rd place)
3.583.930 NSNA (5th place)
3.373.064 AVTAK (8th place)
3.106.367 TLD (6th place)
2.472.732 LTK (10th place)
5.501.310 GE (2nd place, lost to Babe)
4.477.102 TND (4th place, suffered greatly against Titanic!)
5.072.138 TWINE (4th place)
4.940.255 DAD (7th place)**
5.461.490 CR (5th place)
4.744.130 QOS (2nd place, lost to Madagascar 2)
7.779.654 SF (2nd place, lost to Intouchables, French film)
7.089.019 SP (3rd place)
**No other Bond film ever faced this kind of competition, DAD beaten by Lord Of The Rings, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Ice Age, Spider-Man, Men In Black
ranking of ticket sales:
1 9.000.000 YOLT
2 7.779.654 SF
3 7.200.000 TSWLM
4 7.089.019 SP
5 6.000.000 LALD
6 5.501.310 GE
7 5.500.000 DAF
8 5.461.490 CR
9 5.300.000 MR
10 5.072.138 TWINE
11 4.940.255 DAD
12 4.820.641 FYEO
13 4.744.130 QOS
14 4.500.000 TMWTGG
15 4.477.102 TND
16 4.324.692 OP
17 4.000.000 OHMSS
18 3.583.930 NSNA
19 3.373.064 AVTAK
20 3.106.367 TLD
21 2.472.732 LTK
with 9.000.000 YOLT is the most successful
therefore let's see which films sold more tickets from 1965 to 2017: it's a short list
1969 Once Upon A Time In The West 13.000.000
1972 Trinity Is Still My Name 11.300.000
1990 Pretty Woman 10.625.337
1993 Jurassic Park 9.367.216
1994 The Lion King 11.333.217
1996 Independence Day 9.258.993
1998 Titanic 18.081.331
2001 Harry Potter I, 12.565.007
2001 Lord Of The Rings I, 11.833.420
2002 Harry Potter II, 9.702.824
2002 Lord Of The Rings II, 10.692.798
2003 Lord Of The Rings III, 10.432.470
2009 Avatar 11.292.801
2012 Intouchables (French film) 9.140.334
2015 Star Wars TFA 9.018.037
Not even E.T. or any original Star Wars sold more tickets. Dirty Dancing came close with 8.700.000
Allow me to comment:
It becomes totally clear that GoldenEye saved the franchise in 1995.
Daniel Craig only with SF became more successful than Brosnan.
Timothy Dalton's run suffered from the steady loss of interest in Bond in the 80s and had little to do with the actor who was welcomed very well in the German-language era.
FYEO wasn't nearly as serious as LTK. I'm not sure First Blood changed that much. There has always been a large market for both light-hearted and serious action movies.
TLD and LTK where the worst-grossing 007 movies in Germany and Dalton was not well accepted here and in the US. What's not to understand here?
Every other 'new ' Bond actor received a standing ovation at the box office - only Dalton not and you still blame the weather/tone/haircut 8-)
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Please give me examples for serious 1970/80 action movies which made it into the top 15 prior to First Blood.
Thank you!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Three Days of the Condor
I can't find a ranking, but it was not in the top 10 in 1975.
Are you sure that it was in the 15?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Ranked 17 and is imo more a phantasy movie
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I couldn't find worldwide, but for the US it was at number 8: http://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-records/domestic/all-movies/cumulative/released-in-1975
Deathwish
Magnum Force
Deliverance
The Getaway
The Enforcer
Thanks!!!
Imo that only strengthens my point. The mentioned movies were much earlier (early - mid 1970) then First Blood and imo only ranked high because of the old well-known battleships (Eastwood, Reynolds etc) pulled those movies up.
Imagine their success without a male lead.
First Blood was something completely new and a gamechanger in action movies in the cinema though Stallone was also well known from Rocky I admit.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!