More of an international man of ass kicking; more blunt instrument / assassin. Getting more bummed out,
But surely he should be both. If ass kicking was the only criteria there are other action film characters to do just that.
You have hit the nail squarely on the head. The difference that makes the difference with Bond is the uneasy coexistence of those two elements so I welcome Daniel's Bond sloughing some of those in this one and hope if he does continue to progress with that trajectory. As you rightly point out without the gravitas and some refinement badass's are a dime a dozen. I don't want to tone down the hard edge in any way before being accused of wanting to go back to the 'dark times' or BC (before Craig) and don't see it as either or. My only gripe is that jeez it's taking its time...
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
Not a surprise that the American critics are killing SPECTRE. It doesn't really bother me, as I will form my own opinions either way. But it may [slightly] dampen the box office numbers.
Why do we think the US critics are being so damning of the film? Is it to do with no locations in America? Is it the lack of the CIA and Felix? Too London-centric again after tolerating the UK-based Skyfall?
As long as their views don't kill box office returns sufficiently to stop Babs and Michael GW from insisting that DC and SM return to complete a trio of movies together, by way of a fat financial incentive, I'm not bothered either.
no i think its because us Americans are known to be the whiniest 1st world complainers in the world . Have you seen Spectre yet Commander and what did you think of it?
- On my Spectre Bondathon, on Spy who Loved me Right now. Solid 8.2/10. I think Atlantis, the villain Strombrough's evil underwater layer would have been perfect for spectre theme, only make it an 8 legged octopus shape underwater layer instead of a 5 or 6 legged water spider.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
The reviewer from Forbes magazine is talking directly from his ass. He calls it "the worst Bond film in 30 years"...a span of time that includes AVTAK and DAD 8-) It's hyperbole that devalues every word he subsequently excretes.
Many critics simply don't understand Bond: the character or its appeal, or even the franchise itself.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I wouldn't believe ANYTHING a critic writes over here, nor anything else in the "press" for that matter! I remember when TND came out, the Boston Globe critic wrote that: "In the pre-title sequence, Brosnan is after some "red encoder box" that has nothing to do with the plot..." I wrote the paper suggesting that their film critic might want to consider actually watching the film he was paid to review!
Not a surprise that the American critics are killing SPECTRE. It doesn't really bother me, as I will form my own opinions either way. But it may [slightly] dampen the box office numbers.
Most of what we are seeing of US reviews are not exactly the cream of the crop of critics (at least from what I am seeing on Rotten Tomatos). Nothing yet from the big newspapers and publications (they tend to print their reviews the day of the film's release in the US).
I actually think the current 62% critics rating is misleading in that most either hate the film or love it at this point and I saw much more love its. As per Rotten Toamtos, 99% of the public want to see the film, which is probably more important in the big $$$ picture. Some of the really negative reviews appeared to be from the anti-classic Bond crowd, some the online "who ever heard of you" movie critic version of internet trolling and a few who had some thoughtful critisms and insights. There was also some question as to whether one reviewer had actually seen SPECTRE based upon the crazy early date of the review. Some of the real negative stuff "worst Bond film in 30 yrs"; "just another Roger Moore film minus the d..K jokes" seem to go so against the grain of what most UK critics and AJB'ers have said that it is impossible to take them seriously.
Anyway, having not yet seen SPECTRE, I do have a theory none the less. From what I've gleaned, SPECTRE veers much closer to classic Bond thus will take more of the arrows and critical dismissiveness those films tend to suffer in this jaded modern age (at least in the States). I do believe however that more of the mainstream US critics may like the film and have a better appreciation for what it actually is: escapist entertainment and maybe a love letter to Bond fans.
I do believe however that more of the mainstream US critics may like the film and have a better appreciation for what it actually is: escapist entertainment and maybe a love letter to Bond fans.
I sense that will happen. The extremely positive reviews the film opened to in the UK never rang true with me but many of these negative US reviews are also off the mark. The "worst Bond film in 30 years" review is just silly.
Why do we think the US critics are being so damning of the film? Is it to do with no locations in America? Is it the lack of the CIA and Felix? Too London-centric again after tolerating the UK-based Skyfall?
I don't think these negative reviews have anything to do with the locations of the film or CIA and Felix being left out That's just silly. The reviews may be misguided and annoying but I highly doubt that xenophobia has anything to do with them.
Bottom line, as long as the fans turn out there's nothing the critics can do. I'm reasonably sure most everyone started ignoring them years ago. I know I did. -{ :007)
Part of this is probably lashback directed at the series popularity. I think there is some resentment over Mendes continuing involvement in the Bond films amongst some critics. Mendes has always been a critic's darling, considered an auteur of "serious, thought provoking, artistic films". They (the critics) allowed him one guilty pleasure in "Skyfall" and rewarded him for elevating all that Bond silliness but now they want him back; no more slumming in Bond films.
Just a little tidbit about "film critics". I read that greatly revered (and reviled) film critic Pauline Kael would typically sneak a small bottle of liquor into the critic's screening of a film and proceed to get loaded while viewing a film for review. Tells you all you need to know about film critics. -{
I'm eagerly awaiting to see the advance screening tonight (USA fan) but after reading numerous American critics review on the film, I'm a bit worry now. Nevertheless, fingers crossed :007)
Loeffelholz, you are a great writer just in your comment, and a much better writer than that guy
Cheers! {[] Some review headlines are classic, and tell you all you need to know. Here's one:
"FOR BETTER OR WORSE, 'SPECTRE' IS QUINTESSENTIAL BOND"
8-)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
The reviewer from Forbes magazine is talking directly from his ass. He calls it "the worst Bond film in 30 years"...a span of time that includes AVTAK and DAD 8-) It's hyperbole that devalues every word he subsequently excretes.
Many critics simply don't understand Bond: the character or its appeal, or even the franchise itself.
I find it ironic that critics are being criticised here for criticising a Bond movie. Some of us may have forgotten how they have criticised DAD here just a moment ago.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
The reviewer from Forbes magazine is talking directly from his ass. He calls it "the worst Bond film in 30 years"...a span of time that includes AVTAK and DAD 8-) It's hyperbole that devalues every word he subsequently excretes.
Many critics simply don't understand Bond: the character or its appeal, or even the franchise itself.
I find it ironic that critics are being criticised here for criticising a Bond movie. Some of us may have forgotten how they have criticised DAD here just a moment ago.
I don't know if it's ironic, but it's certainly warranted. Legitimate criticism is fine, and all art is fair game...but Bond has been historically dismissed by dullards and eggheads who don't 'get it.' Meanwhile, audiences have a great time and the films are wildly successful. As long as thick-headed reviews are written, I'll give the reviewers bad reviews :007)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
no i think its because us Americans are known to be the whiniest 1st world complainers in the world . Have you seen Spectre yet Commander and what did you think of it?
Yes, I saw it last Saturday on the second biggest IMAX screen in the UK - see post 145 from this very thread for my spoiler free review - it is quite short, hence you possibly skipped over it!
The reviewer from Forbes magazine is talking directly from his ass. He calls it "the worst Bond film in 30 years"...a span of time that includes AVTAK and DAD 8-) It's hyperbole that devalues every word he subsequently excretes.
Many critics simply don't understand Bond: the character or its appeal, or even the franchise itself.
I find it ironic that critics are being criticised here for criticising a Bond movie. Some of us may have forgotten how they have criticised DAD here just a moment ago.
I don't know if it's ironic, but it's certainly warranted. Legitimate criticism is fine, and all art is fair game...but Bond has been historically dismissed by dullards and eggheads who don't 'get it.' Meanwhile, audiences have a great time and the films are wildly successful. As long as thick-headed reviews are written, I'll give the reviewers bad reviews :007)
Bottom line: everyone is entitled to their opinion. We here can't agree on Bond movie ranking either! Why are you even interested in what critics say?
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
I find it ironic that critics are being criticised here for criticising a Bond movie. Some of us may have forgotten how they have criticised DAD here just a moment ago.
I don't know if it's ironic, but it's certainly warranted. Legitimate criticism is fine, and all art is fair game...but Bond has been historically dismissed by dullards and eggheads who don't 'get it.' Meanwhile, audiences have a great time and the films are wildly successful. As long as thick-headed reviews are written, I'll give the reviewers bad reviews :007)
Bottom line: everyone is entitled to their opinion. We here can't agree on Bond movie ranking either! Why are you even interested in what critics say?
Of course everyone is entitled. And I'm exercising my entitlement. I'm interested in things relating to Bond---including his detractors, with whom I confess to having a bemused fascination. Critics condemn, Bond is successful regardless. Part of the circle of life
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
The reviewer from Forbes magazine is talking directly from his ass. He calls it "the worst Bond film in 30 years"...a span of time that includes AVTAK and DAD 8-) It's hyperbole that devalues every word he subsequently excretes.
Many critics simply don't understand Bond: the character or its appeal, or even the franchise itself.
I find it ironic that critics are being criticised here for criticising a Bond movie. Some of us may have forgotten how they have criticised DAD here just a moment ago.
I bet he/she would be the person that would give a rave review on movie such as The Hangover and The Dictator.
"Some men are coming to kill us. We're going to kill them first."
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
My sincere apologies to anyone feeling assaulted by my reference to DAD ?:) My point was that it strikes me as highly unlikely that SP is a worse film. I am of the opinion that Bond fans are better qualified to criticize Bond films. A non-fan doing it is rather like a food critic who hates Italian food being tasked with reviewing the new Italian restaurant in town...
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I think some critics have already made their minds up and written their reviews
before even seeing the film, as they expect them to all be the same.
Yes---that headline I quoted earlier was written by someone who admitted she did not enjoy Bond films. What should we expect her to say about SP?
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
it strikes me as highly unlikely that SP is a worse film.
It isn't- don't worry, you'll have a ball!
48 hours from now, I will be in front of an IMAX screen
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Comments
But surely he should be both. If ass kicking was the only criteria there are other action film characters to do just that.
You have hit the nail squarely on the head. The difference that makes the difference with Bond is the uneasy coexistence of those two elements so I welcome Daniel's Bond sloughing some of those in this one and hope if he does continue to progress with that trajectory. As you rightly point out without the gravitas and some refinement badass's are a dime a dozen. I don't want to tone down the hard edge in any way before being accused of wanting to go back to the 'dark times' or BC (before Craig) and don't see it as either or. My only gripe is that jeez it's taking its time...
As long as their views don't kill box office returns sufficiently to stop Babs and Michael GW from insisting that DC and SM return to complete a trio of movies together, by way of a fat financial incentive, I'm not bothered either.
- On my Spectre Bondathon, on Spy who Loved me Right now. Solid 8.2/10. I think Atlantis, the villain Strombrough's evil underwater layer would have been perfect for spectre theme, only make it an 8 legged octopus shape underwater layer instead of a 5 or 6 legged water spider.
Many critics simply don't understand Bond: the character or its appeal, or even the franchise itself.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Most of what we are seeing of US reviews are not exactly the cream of the crop of critics (at least from what I am seeing on Rotten Tomatos). Nothing yet from the big newspapers and publications (they tend to print their reviews the day of the film's release in the US).
I actually think the current 62% critics rating is misleading in that most either hate the film or love it at this point and I saw much more love its. As per Rotten Toamtos, 99% of the public want to see the film, which is probably more important in the big $$$ picture. Some of the really negative reviews appeared to be from the anti-classic Bond crowd, some the online "who ever heard of you" movie critic version of internet trolling and a few who had some thoughtful critisms and insights. There was also some question as to whether one reviewer had actually seen SPECTRE based upon the crazy early date of the review. Some of the real negative stuff "worst Bond film in 30 yrs"; "just another Roger Moore film minus the d..K jokes" seem to go so against the grain of what most UK critics and AJB'ers have said that it is impossible to take them seriously.
Anyway, having not yet seen SPECTRE, I do have a theory none the less. From what I've gleaned, SPECTRE veers much closer to classic Bond thus will take more of the arrows and critical dismissiveness those films tend to suffer in this jaded modern age (at least in the States). I do believe however that more of the mainstream US critics may like the film and have a better appreciation for what it actually is: escapist entertainment and maybe a love letter to Bond fans.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Just a little tidbit about "film critics". I read that greatly revered (and reviled) film critic Pauline Kael would typically sneak a small bottle of liquor into the critic's screening of a film and proceed to get loaded while viewing a film for review. Tells you all you need to know about film critics. -{
http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/11/03/review-spectre-is-the-worst-007-movie-in-30-years/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/02/spectre-daniel-craig-s-final-time-suiting-up-as-bond-is-nowhere-near-as-good-as-skyfall.html
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/spectre-2015
Cheers! {[] Some review headlines are classic, and tell you all you need to know. Here's one:
"FOR BETTER OR WORSE, 'SPECTRE' IS QUINTESSENTIAL BOND"
8-)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I find it ironic that critics are being criticised here for criticising a Bond movie. Some of us may have forgotten how they have criticised DAD here just a moment ago.
I don't know if it's ironic, but it's certainly warranted. Legitimate criticism is fine, and all art is fair game...but Bond has been historically dismissed by dullards and eggheads who don't 'get it.' Meanwhile, audiences have a great time and the films are wildly successful. As long as thick-headed reviews are written, I'll give the reviewers bad reviews :007)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Yes, I saw it last Saturday on the second biggest IMAX screen in the UK - see post 145 from this very thread for my spoiler free review - it is quite short, hence you possibly skipped over it!
Bottom line: everyone is entitled to their opinion. We here can't agree on Bond movie ranking either! Why are you even interested in what critics say?
Of course everyone is entitled. And I'm exercising my entitlement. I'm interested in things relating to Bond---including his detractors, with whom I confess to having a bemused fascination. Critics condemn, Bond is successful regardless. Part of the circle of life
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I bet he/she would be the person that would give a rave review on movie such as The Hangover and The Dictator.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
before even seeing the film, as they expect them to all be the same.
Yes---that headline I quoted earlier was written by someone who admitted she did not enjoy Bond films. What should we expect her to say about SP?
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
It isn't- don't worry, you'll have a ball!
48 hours from now, I will be in front of an IMAX screen
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM