SPECTRE reviews - *SPOILERS*

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  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    MR-9 wrote:
    I guess I'm one of those few 007 fans who turned out extremely disappointed with SPECTRE. Seen it so far once & it was the first day first show of Nov 6.
    My biggest complain was it terribly lacked 'Bond-momentum' or Wow moments, mostly in terms of action sequences which I found very average at best for a Bond movie. The opening segment at the Mexico city was decently done but nothing spectacular and for the rest of the movie, as Sony Hack implied, it quite clearly felt like 'Bond 24' frustratingly suffered for budgetary restrictions and thus it not only lacked intense action parts but also in terms of location and particularly the set for Spectre headquarter or Blofeld's premise. I was expecting to see some great & iconic set design & location for both Blofeld's den & the final act. When I thought in SKYFALL, Bond throwing a knife from behind to kill off such cool villain like Silva was disappointing, this time the thing gets even kinda funnier when we see Bond shooting down Blofeld's chopper with his walther ppk. For Bond, I expect something majestic, more exciting & unique than usual other heroes do stuffs.

    Though I'm a huge fan of CASINO ROYALE & didn't at least hate or dislike QOS & SKYFALL but the most weird thing for me was this time the dark, stylish tone of Daniel Craig era gets treated with a strangely depressing & too much offbeat mood all over. At times it was even surprisingly slow and irrationally dragged for a Bond movie.

    It was kind of painful to see when they finally but forcefully put the signature Bond theme at those final last shots, it was like some regular, average action flick just used that soundtrack in the background not only for some weird funny reasons but illegally as well; it felt like it was totally out of place.

    SPECTRE actually had some interesting idea but sadly Mendes and his team this time completely failed to play with them creatively. I really appreciate & like their idea of gradually going back to the traditional Bond film formula with today's dark & bit realistic approach but at the same time that needed to be done as entertaining & courageously as those classics were done. As a BOND movie, you need to give us something more to cherish & talk about that the other contemporary series like Bourne or M.I. haven't done or dared to show before. I think it still very much possible to provide a typically entertaining and successful Bond movie by keeping things faithful to its tradition, style and source material but this franchise seriously need some bit more brave and imaginative writers in coming days as well as fun, young and talented directors like James Gunn, Edgar Wright or who knows may be even Guy Ritchie can do a better bond film!?! :s
    {[]
  • ManxmanManxman Posts: 122MI6 Agent
    I have to say that I was rather disappointed with Spectre, which has none of the depth or atmosphere of Skyfall. Leaving aside the framing narrative about the closing down of the 00 section and the installation of a global surveillance network — a continuation of a trope that started with the first Brosnan film twenty years ago — this was a straightforward romp that could just have easily been fronted by Connery or even Moore.

    It's fairly weak in plot terms, too: Bond pursues a secret mission given to him by his former boss, which involves tracking Blofeld across the world. He finally tracks Blofeld down to his high-tech desert lair, is unconvincingly tortured using a sort of high-tech dentist's chair, easily escapes using an explosive watch, and blows the facility to high heaven. A badly-wounded Blofeld follows Bond to London, attempts to kill him again, and is arrested. The new surveillance network is revealed to be Blofeld's creation and is aborted. Film over.

    This is pretty thin gruel, even if the direct quotation from Colonel Sun gave me a fanboyish thrill, and aside from the superb pre-credits sequence the film is slow-moving too. Overall, not the worst Bond film but a long way from the best: I'd probably rate it at 15 out of 24, just above The World Is Not Enough and significantly below Licence To Kill.

    The new Blofeld is a decidedly bland creation, though that has more to do with his lack of screen time than the shortcomings of the actor, whilst none of the supporting cast is very memorable. As for the plot twist that Blofeld is Bond's stepbrother — this is simply odd, and reminds me more of something from the pen of Arthur Conan Doyle than from the mind of Ian Fleming.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Bond is thin stuff. And that's the way I like it. Gimme an escapist tale of absurd intrigue sprinkled with action over ponderous self-examination any day.
    SPECTRE rules! {[]
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Bond is thin stuff. And that's the way I like it. Gimme an escapist tale of absurd intrigue sprinkled with action over ponderous self-examination any day.
    SPECTRE rules! {[]

    I'll side with chris on this one.

    I do like introspective movies, as Nolan is my fave film director, but for some reason I don't actively seek that out in Bond films.
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • ManxmanManxman Posts: 122MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Bond is thin stuff.
    I agree — but there's thin and there's skeletal, and the plot of Spectre is the latter — and for once, the sumptuous padding can't really disguise the lack of depth.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Manxman wrote:
    and for once, the sumptuous padding can't really disguise the lack of depth.
    "For once"?? :))
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • BIG TAMBIG TAM Wrexham, North Wales, UK.Posts: 773MI6 Agent
    Back in 2006 I saw CASINO ROYALE with two friends. It was a revelation to me - a Bond film devoid of the usual formula being taken seriously by its producers. It felt like a real thriller. My two friends - both DIE ANOTHER DAY fans - disagreed. "Where's the fun? Bond's too serious!" they said. The resulting argument in a pub went nowhere.
    Wind on a few years & I become a member of ajb007 when in my introductory post I remember saying I wasn't a huge fan of YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE & found Brosnan over-rated.
    In early 2013 my Dad saw my Ultimate Collection DVD box-set proudly sitting on a shelf. "I haven't seen Roger Moore's films in years. Let's have a look." he said. For a fortnight or so we watched DR. NO through to SKYFALL - and we loved every damned minute. We revelled in Robert Shaw's brutishness, giggled at Jaws' ineptitude, laughed (& groaned) at the puns, marvelled at the stunts. It was at this point I realised I actually liked Bond in all his forms - yes, it even felt okay to like the much-maligned A VIEW TO A KILL. The character needn't be just serious or just comedic. There really was room for both.
    This post doesn't really add much to the debate of whether SPECTRE's good or bad (though I clearly think it's good). It's just a reiteration of what I've said before - that Bond should be embraced in all his forms. SPECTRE is just one facet of what one can do with an iconic character. I very much look forward in seeing where he goes next.
  • jz007jz007 Posts: 362MI6 Agent
    Finally saw it last night, and stayed away from this website to avoid spoilers (except for clothing, of course!). I enjoyed it! I thought the soundtrack was JUST a little too familiar, though I love the Skyfall soundtrack, and it was beautifully filmed.

    Perhaps DC is done as Bond, as it seemed to show in a few scenes, but I really enjoyed how it tied in the Craig era films and was a little more FUN to watch. The romance seemed a little forced with the first two Bond girls, but Léa Seydoux worked very well. Glad I saw it in theaters!
    jz007
    Bond on a Budget
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    I'm really glad so many here had fun with SP like I did. {[]
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
    frost wrote:
    Yes, I know Fleming had Bond married in OHMSS. The subsequent murder of his wife further illustrates my point in that marriage was something he could never truly have. Tossing the Walther off a bridge and walking away hand-in-hand to disavow a lifelong career as an assassin is just insulting the intelligence of the viewer. The emotionally sensitive Bond is not the one Craig set sail with

    That's known as a 'character arc,' and it's a first for the Bond character, especially in that it happens over multiple pictures. And as we rebooted with CR, Bond hasn't learnt that 'no relationship' lesson yet. For better or worse, they've apparently decided to condense and distill Bond's backstory and motivation into Craig's run. This is why I'll believe he's doing one more until Eon says otherwise ;)

    Again, there's no dissuading anyone from their disregard for a particular film, just as there's no dissuading from affection for another. Vive le difference. It's discussing without insults that can clearly be the tricky bit.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
    chrisisall wrote:
    I'm really glad so many here had fun with SP like I did. {[]

    4th time viewing last night, with a first-timer :007) Still exciting; still fun!
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    edited November 2015
    My Son still feels that Connery in DN is the Bond he likes the most. He rejects Moore films as too silly, he 'appreciates' my love of Dalton, and said he had a fair time with TLD, he thought Brosnan was pretty good in TND, he bailed on CR pretty early on, he stuck out QOS & said it was pretty good actually, he watched most of SF with me and said "Everything wrong with Skyfall in 4 minutes or less" was more entertaining, but he said based upon what he's heard about SP he's wanting to see it as soon as I get the BD. I think he'll REALLY like it. -{
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Agent PurpleAgent Purple Posts: 857MI6 Agent
    edited November 2015
    chrisisall wrote:
    My Son still feels that Connery in DN is the Bond he likes the most. He rejects Moore films as too silly, he 'appreciates' my love of Dalton, and said he had a fair time with TLD, he thought Brosnan was pretty good in TLD, he bailed on CR pretty early on, he stuck out QOS & said it was pretty good actually, he watched most of SF with me and said "Everything wrong with Skyfall in 4 minutes or less" was more entertaining, but he said based upon what he's heard about SP he's wanting to see it as soon as I get the BD. I think he'll REALLY like it. -{


    Was Brosnan in TLD? Or was that TND? :))
    "Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
    New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
    1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
    Bond actors to be re-ranked later
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 36,459Chief of Staff
    Well, Brosnan would have been pretty good in TLD if things had gone his way!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent

    Was Brosnan in TLD? Or was that TND?
    Fixed. All this holiday cheer...
    ... or...
    chloral hydrate..... X-(
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • frostfrost Posts: 32MI6 Agent
    Manxman wrote:
    I agree — but there's thin and there's skeletal, and the plot of Spectre is the latter — and for once, the sumptuous padding can't really disguise the lack of depth.

    Completely agree. After the first 30 minutes of Spectre I started looking for Jar Jar Binks or some other metaphor illustrating a massive exodus of all things creative from the minds of the script writers. I still can't stop laughing about that ridiculous torture chair and desert fortress. I half-imagine a team of monkeys running around a room with scraps of paper that read "more explosions," "car chase" and "helicopters" that were used interchangeably to fill in holes in the plot. I'll never see eye to eye with those who can't agree that CR and SF had much more depth than Spectre could ever hope to.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    frost wrote:
    I'll never see eye to eye with those who can't agree that CR and SF had much more depth than Spectre could ever hope to.
    You can't see eye to eye with those who enjoy fun vs. Twilight soap-like stuff... ;%
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • frostfrost Posts: 32MI6 Agent
    frost wrote:
    Yes, I know Fleming had Bond married in OHMSS. The subsequent murder of his wife further illustrates my point in that marriage was something he could never truly have. Tossing the Walther off a bridge and walking away hand-in-hand to disavow a lifelong career as an assassin is just insulting the intelligence of the viewer. The emotionally sensitive Bond is not the one Craig set sail with

    That's known as a 'character arc,' and it's a first for the Bond character, especially in that it happens over multiple pictures. And as we rebooted with CR, Bond hasn't learnt that 'no relationship' lesson yet. For better or worse, they've apparently decided to condense and distill Bond's backstory and motivation into Craig's run. This is why I'll believe he's doing one more until Eon says otherwise ;)

    Again, there's no dissuading anyone from their disregard for a particular film, just as there's no dissuading from affection for another. Vive le difference. It's discussing without insults that can clearly be the tricky bit.

    Duly noted. I found some of the unwavering support for the film in the first several pages of this thread to be stemmed in fanboyism and void of objective criticism thereby triggering my outspoken distaste for it. A pig in lipstick is indeed still a pig, as it were. Don't care what the lipstick cost to make.
  • frostfrost Posts: 32MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    frost wrote:
    I'll never see eye to eye with those who can't agree that CR and SF had much more depth than Spectre could ever hope to.
    You can't see eye to eye with those who enjoy fun vs. Twilight soap-like stuff... ;%

    Dalton is your hero Bond, yet you congeal with the campiest of camp films. Talk about a walking paradox.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,993Quartermasters
    frost wrote:

    That's known as a 'character arc,' and it's a first for the Bond character, especially in that it happens over multiple pictures. And as we rebooted with CR, Bond hasn't learnt that 'no relationship' lesson yet. For better or worse, they've apparently decided to condense and distill Bond's backstory and motivation into Craig's run. This is why I'll believe he's doing one more until Eon says otherwise ;)

    Again, there's no dissuading anyone from their disregard for a particular film, just as there's no dissuading from affection for another. Vive le difference. It's discussing without insults that can clearly be the tricky bit.

    Duly noted. I found some of the unwavering support for the film in the first several pages of this thread to be stemmed in fanboyism and void of objective criticism thereby triggering my outspoken distaste for it. A pig in lipstick is indeed still a pig, as it were. Don't care what the lipstick cost to make.

    Fanboys? On a fan site? I do hope the authorities have been notified.

    You probably missed my review, where I detailed my issues with the film (mostly 3rd act stuff)---and yet had the temerity to enjoy it anyway. It's good of you to drop in, though. What a pleasure.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • JagJag Posts: 1,167MI6 Agent
    frost wrote:
    Manxman wrote:
    I agree — but there's thin and there's skeletal, and the plot of Spectre is the latter — and for once, the sumptuous padding can't really disguise the lack of depth.

    Completely agree. After the first 30 minutes of Spectre I started looking for Jar Jar Binks or some other metaphor illustrating a massive exodus of all things creative from the minds of the script writers. I still can't stop laughing about that ridiculous torture chair and desert fortress. I half-imagine a team of monkeys running around a room with scraps of paper that read "more explosions," "car chase" and "helicopters" that were used interchangeably to fill in holes in the plot. I'll never see eye to eye with those who can't agree that CR and SF had much more depth than Spectre could ever hope to.


    Spectre is simply a more "Moore-ish" movie than CR or SF. I had just seen all Moore movies on Blu-ray, and have to say Roger's acting skills are much better than Craig's. However, bad script is really the movie's worst element. If you are making the biggest explosion in the history of cinema, make an effort to justify it with more than a few potshots! :))
  • BIG TAMBIG TAM Wrexham, North Wales, UK.Posts: 773MI6 Agent
    A work colleague asked what SPECTRE was like. I said to imagine the feel of THE SPY WHO LOVED ME without the overt comedy & Sean Connery as Bond instead of Roger Moore. He said, "Oh, it's a bit like NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN then." I had to laugh, both at my own simplistic description & his take on it. I suggested he just go see it & enjoy the thrills & spills.
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Having been around when the Connery era was still fresh in the minds of moviegoers, even while the spoofish Moore era became the Bond standard of the day, I can say the humor in Spectre did not bother me as much as it does some people. However, in the spirit of the "the writing is poor" argument, I will say that tonally it didn't fit Craig as well as Connery-esque humor would have.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Because of the extreme seriousness of Craig's first three, suddenly, landing on a couch that hit the ground before Bond did is equivalent to a Tarzan yell. :))

    SPECTRE is not Moore-ish. Please people, get a grip. :D
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    That wasn't so much the bit that seemed like a Moore film to me -- having Hinx say "sh--," and the sequence with the old guy during the car chase was more so in both the tone and execution. Connery's humor frequently grew out of the drama or seriousness of the situation -- a response to something violent or threatening someone said or did -- whereas the Moore films often created sequences that themselves were supposed to be funny because of the jokiness or the silliness.

    The best moments of Connery humor happened when he interacted with the villains -- like asking Dr. No if being able to topple rockets made up for not having hands or when Fiona Volpe thinks him a dupe and waits for him in his bathtub and they engage in verbal sparring. Moore's humor was too often slapstick, like the Venice gondola or the car split in half in A View to a Kill.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    having Hinx say "sh--," and the sequence with the old guy during the car chase was more so in both the tone and execution.
    Possibly, but I thought them both perfectly possible in the circumstances. But then I like salt corrosion... :))
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Gassy Man wrote:
    having Hinx say "sh--," and the sequence with the old guy during the car chase was more so in both the tone and execution.
    Possibly, but I thought them both perfectly possible in the circumstances. But then I like salt corrosion... :))
    Oh, it's not the issue of possibility or whatever. I think the reason a lot of critics, particularly American ones, are bothered by the Moore-like references is because they are tonally wrong for Craig. It's not that the Craig films couldn't use more humor. They certainly can. I've been arguing for this since Quantum of Solace. It's that the type of humor just does not seem to fit Craig well. His dourness is one of the things that holds him back from being Connery's equal to me, so it is strange that they would try for humor that is like Moore's, who he is even less like. He could certainly, though, trade barbs with people, as he did in Casino Royale, of have a sequence that is wittily clever as opposed to more of a staged gag.

    Imagine if Craig had had a dinner sequence with Blofeld a la Dr. No:

    Blofeld (gloating): So, James, what do you think of my life's work, so to speak?
    Bond: Impressive. You've built the world's largest basement for maladapted computer nerds, complete with the most exotic pet rock. Only, you found a way to work disappointed parents out of the equation. Bravo, that.
    Swann barely conceals her amusement.
    Blofeld (not amused): Is that the limit of your appreciation?
    Bond: Oh, no. All this because your father loved me more than he did you. Tell me, Franz, better now?
    Blofeld: Really, I expected more from the great 007. After all, I've followed your many exploits with great interest for years. You could say I was your biggest fan.
    Bond: As my biggest fan, then, you already know what I have to do about this.
    Blofeld: Of course! But before we discuss your future, let us discuss your present. Come, James, it is now time to show you a very special room that I think will amuse you.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,061MI6 Agent
    Gassy, you do have a flair for the dramatic! :))
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    I just like the old-fashioned dialogue scenes, which we really don't get anymore . . . a joy of watching a Bond film, to me, is that scenes like that can actually seem plausible if the actors are doing their work, and both Craig and Waltz could have done that well.
  • DutchfingerDutchfinger Holland With LovePosts: 1,240MI6 Agent
    So i'm in the cinema for my second viewing. Its unbelievable how people can spoil the experience... In my first viewing I was on the pre premiere with the room full of Bond fans. People were even cheering when the gunbarrel came on. The atmosphere was great! Now, im in a small room with a drunk game who was constantly speaking out loud, opening his lighter, and despite people telling him to shut up, he continued... The atmosphere is so different too. Casuals react so differently to the film than fans. Not as much laughs and such. Its funny the second half is about to start, thank god the drunk guy went home...
    Better known as DutchBondFan on YouTube. My 007 movie reviews: Recapping 007
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