I predict a landslide for The Monster Raving Loony Party at the next EU election
I think you mean the Brexit Party.
I also want to reiterate what Barbel has said. Could members please reread the OP and remember to strive to be civil to each other and to not needlessly make things personal? I don't want my thread to face closure again and I'm sure those who use it don't want that either. It's an open space for adult debate on UK politics, both past and present. Please use it wisely, or risk losing this space altogether in interesting political times for the UK. -{
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
We should indeed keep it civil, we are above personal asides and insults -{
So the local election gave the two main parties a kick in the ballots! No surprises there then, the opposition have been punished for sitting on the fence, taking no clear position on brexit and deserting their supporters. The tories were due a drubbing for their handling of the referendum result and election cycles and the fact they have been in power means it was always going to happen. What is amazing is that Labour's vote share reduced.... Again and they failed to capitalize on a weak government and government and brexit apathy! They also list key stronghold councils. The tories are sitting ducks at the moment, easy targets despite running the better councils and those councils largely foregoing the highest council tax increases allowed. Lib dems could only ever prosper from the protest vote and being at such a low the only had to be up.
We need change at the top of the two main parties that's for sure and it's obvious the voters have no stomach for party politics at times of national political crisis.
I totally agree with you, Chris. The government are in a shambolic state and any halfway decent opposition could and should have been capitalising on this with glee. It hasn't happened and the voters have punished them for it.
I totally agree with you, Chris. The government are in a shambolic state and any halfway decent opposition could and should have been capitalising on this with glee. It hasn't happened and the voters have punished them for it.
Both of them!
It was either that.....or the priesthood
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,692MI6 Agent
I totally agree with you, Chris. The government are in a shambolic state and any halfway decent opposition could and should have been capitalising on this with glee. It hasn't happened and the voters have punished them for it.
Both of them!
A plague on both their houses, you could say!
That seems to be the message coming through from the voters in the local elections in most of England.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I laughed at the comedian who said, The last referendum on independence, was to
be a once in a generation Vote. As now only a few years later we're to have another...
...... Just goes to show how short life expectancy is in Scotland
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Scotland and England are siblings, and squabble as siblings do (Ireland and Wales maybe do the same, but I can't speak for them). They are better off together, and deep down they realise it but they get sidetracked by surface issues.
England is larger and richer and (I'm being honest here) more influential and this has to be acknowledged, but Scotland's input isn't negligible and can't be ignored. The trouble is, too often it is and hence the SNP has a perpetual voter base.
But … but I thought the Scandinavian countries were happier than the Bond producers pushing back the realease date!
It must be those gloomy Italians …..
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,692MI6 Agent
How has all the Brexit business influenced Scotland and the attitude to Scottish Independence, I wonder?
The SNP's mantra could well be (adapting it slightly from the Irish nationalist version): "England's difficulty is Scotland's opportunity."
And calling for another Scottish Independence referendum less than five years since the last one is of course nothing but rank opportunism from SNP Leader and Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Calling for another referendum about independence is opportunist, but it's alos the best reason they have for Independence. After all Scottland has to leave the EU against their will because ofthe English vote.
Barbel may know this better, but the last independence vote was based on the fact that the UK is part of the EU.
That may change now substancially (if the UK MPs manage get their act together) and it gives Scotland a very good reason to hold another referendum because the entire setting has substancially changed.
I don't see anything opportunist ist that line of thought.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The SNP's mantra could well be (adapting it slightly): "England's difficulty is Scotland's opportunity."
Following the arguments from the Leave side, Brexit will be a huge opportunity (which I personally doubt to be true - anyhow), so I fail to see the "difficulty" part.
For sure Scotland will only cast another independence vote after the UK have left the EU, not earlier.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,692MI6 Agent
Calling for another referendum about independence is opportunist, but it's alos the best reason they have for Independence. After all Scottland has to leave the EU against their will because ofthe English vote.
Well good luck to them with applying to rejoin the EU again if they ever win their independence referendum. Hopefully it'll be a speedier process than Brexit has been for the UK!
It also raises the rather thorny question of their currency once they leave the UK - the pound or the euro or their own new currency? I believe that the then [2014] Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne ruled out their continuing to use the pound as their currency.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,692MI6 Agent
The SNP's mantra could well be (adapting it slightly): "England's difficulty is Scotland's opportunity."
Following the arguments from the Leave side, Brexit will be a huge opportunity (which I personally doubt to be true - anyhow), so I fail to see the "difficulty" part.
For sure Scotland will only cast another independence vote after the UK have left the EU, not earlier.
I think you misunderstand my post - we're all surely aware by now of the difficulties leaving the EU has had in practice, as opposed to the theory that all the various actors would act honorably and follow the democratic will of the people as expressed in the 2016 referendum. The difficulties are a Remainer PM (Cameron) replaced by yet another Remainer PM (May), a divided parliament that can't decide a majority on anything and a reluctant and savvy EU all adding up to the perfect political storm.
On Scottish independence:
No, they'll cast another independence vote when the UK government gives them permission to do so, and not a moment before unless they unadvisedly follow the approach of the Catalans and their illegal independence referendum in 2017. Happily, for those interested in preserving the Union, that is a matter of the legal limits of Scottish devolution and UK constitutional law.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Normally I would say it's not a good idea to have Independence referendums such a short time after the last one, but Brexit changes the status of the UK significantly so I would understand if they did another one.
Independence is a relative consept. No country is completely independent of other countries, both economically and legally, becasue there are limits to what can be done and some cooperation and common rules are necessery. If Scotland leaves the UK they will gain some Independence, and if Scotland choses to join the EU they will have to give up some independence. If Scotland leaves the UK and don't join the UK the country will still need to follow some international agreements and have trade treaties with other countries.
Countries give up a significant part of their independence when joining the EU for the advantages of being a member. Some will say it's giving up too much independence, but the country isn't giving up independence altogether, it's not joining the Soviet Union.
Rory Stewart: Secretary of State for International Development.
I first read the news today that he had an ambition to be PM,
as I thought at first it was Rod Stewart
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Rory Stewart: Secretary of State for International Development.
I first read the news today that he had an ambition to be PM,
as I thought at first it was Rod Stewart
Although he's a Remainer, I'm very glad Rory Stewart's finally been promoted to the Cabinet after years of being a junior minister in various government departments, most recently Prisons Minister in the Ministry of Justice. He certainly has an interesting military background and a wealthy of experience outside of the world of politics. He comes across as a sincere and sensible politician. Although I'd prefer the next PM after May to be a Brexiteer (to not follow a bad choice with another) he certainly could be a major contender in any new race for the leadership and premiership.
I'm always wary of politicians who say they want to be the next PM, however, as they're usually not the best candidates - again one thinks of May - "I'm the best person to be prime minister" being her pitch back in 2016:
Comments
I think you mean the Brexit Party.
I also want to reiterate what Barbel has said. Could members please reread the OP and remember to strive to be civil to each other and to not needlessly make things personal? I don't want my thread to face closure again and I'm sure those who use it don't want that either. It's an open space for adult debate on UK politics, both past and present. Please use it wisely, or risk losing this space altogether in interesting political times for the UK. -{
lets keep it civil,
So the local election gave the two main parties a kick in the ballots! No surprises there then, the opposition have been punished for sitting on the fence, taking no clear position on brexit and deserting their supporters. The tories were due a drubbing for their handling of the referendum result and election cycles and the fact they have been in power means it was always going to happen. What is amazing is that Labour's vote share reduced.... Again and they failed to capitalize on a weak government and government and brexit apathy! They also list key stronghold councils. The tories are sitting ducks at the moment, easy targets despite running the better councils and those councils largely foregoing the highest council tax increases allowed. Lib dems could only ever prosper from the protest vote and being at such a low the only had to be up.
We need change at the top of the two main parties that's for sure and it's obvious the voters have no stomach for party politics at times of national political crisis.
Both of them!
shows the world how to go one step further, by having a useless opposition !
A plague on both their houses, you could say!
That seems to be the message coming through from the voters in the local elections in most of England.
be a once in a generation Vote. As now only a few years later we're to have another...
...... Just goes to show how short life expectancy is in Scotland
Scotland and England are siblings, and squabble as siblings do (Ireland and Wales maybe do the same, but I can't speak for them). They are better off together, and deep down they realise it but they get sidetracked by surface issues.
England is larger and richer and (I'm being honest here) more influential and this has to be acknowledged, but Scotland's input isn't negligible and can't be ignored. The trouble is, too often it is and hence the SNP has a perpetual voter base.
Here I am with more fake news
gloomiest in the developed world ! ( claims poll )
It must be those gloomy Italians …..
The SNP's mantra could well be (adapting it slightly from the Irish nationalist version): "England's difficulty is Scotland's opportunity."
And calling for another Scottish Independence referendum less than five years since the last one is of course nothing but rank opportunism from SNP Leader and Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.
That may change now substancially (if the UK MPs manage get their act together) and it gives Scotland a very good reason to hold another referendum because the entire setting has substancially changed.
I don't see anything opportunist ist that line of thought.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Hand it over to the EU
Would approve.
Following the arguments from the Leave side, Brexit will be a huge opportunity (which I personally doubt to be true - anyhow), so I fail to see the "difficulty" part.
For sure Scotland will only cast another independence vote after the UK have left the EU, not earlier.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Well good luck to them with applying to rejoin the EU again if they ever win their independence referendum. Hopefully it'll be a speedier process than Brexit has been for the UK!
It also raises the rather thorny question of their currency once they leave the UK - the pound or the euro or their own new currency? I believe that the then [2014] Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne ruled out their continuing to use the pound as their currency.
I think you misunderstand my post - we're all surely aware by now of the difficulties leaving the EU has had in practice, as opposed to the theory that all the various actors would act honorably and follow the democratic will of the people as expressed in the 2016 referendum. The difficulties are a Remainer PM (Cameron) replaced by yet another Remainer PM (May), a divided parliament that can't decide a majority on anything and a reluctant and savvy EU all adding up to the perfect political storm.
On Scottish independence:
No, they'll cast another independence vote when the UK government gives them permission to do so, and not a moment before unless they unadvisedly follow the approach of the Catalans and their illegal independence referendum in 2017. Happily, for those interested in preserving the Union, that is a matter of the legal limits of Scottish devolution and UK constitutional law.
Independence is a relative consept. No country is completely independent of other countries, both economically and legally, becasue there are limits to what can be done and some cooperation and common rules are necessery. If Scotland leaves the UK they will gain some Independence, and if Scotland choses to join the EU they will have to give up some independence. If Scotland leaves the UK and don't join the UK the country will still need to follow some international agreements and have trade treaties with other countries.
Countries give up a significant part of their independence when joining the EU for the advantages of being a member. Some will say it's giving up too much independence, but the country isn't giving up independence altogether, it's not joining the Soviet Union.
I first read the news today that he had an ambition to be PM,
as I thought at first it was Rod Stewart
Although he's a Remainer, I'm very glad Rory Stewart's finally been promoted to the Cabinet after years of being a junior minister in various government departments, most recently Prisons Minister in the Ministry of Justice. He certainly has an interesting military background and a wealthy of experience outside of the world of politics. He comes across as a sincere and sensible politician. Although I'd prefer the next PM after May to be a Brexiteer (to not follow a bad choice with another) he certainly could be a major contender in any new race for the leadership and premiership.
I'm always wary of politicians who say they want to be the next PM, however, as they're usually not the best candidates - again one thinks of May - "I'm the best person to be prime minister" being her pitch back in 2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdxpb_UUDIA&t=300s
We all know now how well that worked out! 8-)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-party-beat-conservatives-general-election-poll-latest-nigel-farage-a8910146.html