Corbyn is now in favour of a second referendum. That
Decision will split the labour vote ( what's left of it ) as
Many Labour voters are also leave voters .
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
She recently stepped down from being the party leader and made clear that she won't be running again for Chancellor, but she is still in charge.
So she has not resigned from being chancellor and so she can't un-resign. And I doubt that she will run again.
She also said recently, that after 2021, she won't be running for a leading role in the UN or the EU.
I know that President Obama begged her to run for 2017 after Trump has been elected.
I have never voted for her or her party, but I think, that she was doing an outstanding job for Germany, the EU and more.
On another note, Facebook CEOs Zuckerberg and Sandberg ignored a Canadian subpoena about privacy issues.
I keep on repeating, that single countries are being conveniently ignored by these companies, unless there is a significant larger organisation like the EU ordering them to appear.
I am not saying, that their appearance at the EU was an EU masterpiece (it was quite pathetic on the part of the EU), but it hurts them when the EU fines them.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
) I see Alastair Campbell has been expelled from the Labour Party, Seems
the master of spin, went just a little too far this time.
He'll have plenty of time to spin in the grave marked 'New Labour'.
As people were saying on the radio today Corbyn & Co. weren't as quick to expel members accused of antisemitism. That suggests that it was more about wanting to publicly make an example of Campbell than anything else. His wife certainly thinks that, and I'd have to agree.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 26,568Chief of Staff
What Morgan says (as a Remainer who would now back Brexit in any second EU referendum) may dash the hopes of the likes of Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell who believe such a referendum would overturn Brexit by a majority of people voting to Remain in the EU after all. Here's a quote from the start of the piece which sums the matter of a second referendum up very well:
I voted Remain, and still don’t think Brexit is a good idea. However, if there were to be a second EU referendum, I would vote Leave. Not because I’ve experienced some Damascene conversion to the Brexit cause — I haven’t met anyone who has changed their mind about it and suspect these people don’t exist outside Alastair Campbell’s hysterical Remoaner mind — but because I would be so furious at a second referendum happening at all. What’s going on now is a disgrace: a House of Commons packed with Remainer MPs trying everything in its power to reverse the 2016 result or dilute Brexit so much that it ceases to resemble anything that Leavers voted for. I find this assault on our democracy far more sinister than anything that might befall us in the event of a no-deal departure from Europe, not least because those shouting loudest about what a disaster no deal would be — like Campbell and Tony Blair — all once assured me that if Britain didn’t join the euro, it would also be a disaster, and in fact it was the best thing we never did. Also, let’s not forget these were the same people who dragged us into the calamitous war with Iraq — without even contemplating the notion of a ‘People’s Vote’. As for the patronising idea that no Leavers knew what they were voting for, I simply say this: they all assumed voting Leave meant ‘leaving the European Union’, as stated on the ballot paper, not partly staying in it. So the much-scorned ‘crashing out with no deal’ option is most in line with what people probably thought they were getting.
Just for the record, I would certainly not hesitate one jot to vote Leave again, if the powers that be are foolish enough to ask the same question twice, expecting a different (or as they might perceive it the "right") answer. See the Republic of Ireland and the second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty in October 2009 for more on this approach.
Such an overturned result is what the EU hopes for, and wearying the UK public by needlessly dragging out the process is of course in their self-interest. It also acts as a warning to any other malcontents who might also be desiring a referendum on continued EU membership (France, Italy, Greece?).
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I laughed at this weeks question time, when Fiona Bruce said, that
nothing much had changed as the vote was still around 50/50. So I
hope she will then explain why the question time panel NEVER reflects
this ) you're lucky if you get a brexit supporter on it.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
In contrary to Hard Brexiteers, most of the EU leaders follow the broad consensus of experts who forecast that a Hard Brexit will have severe consequences for the UK, for Europe and for the World economy - in that order.
So a Hard Brexit is not in the EU interest and it should not be in the interest of UK leaders.
I personally don‘t believe that a second referendum would make anything better - quite the contrary.
That the EU is behind dragging the Brexit process is just phantasy. It was the UK who have asked for new deadlines twice already because the House of parliament could not get their act together.
Like someone said: if something good happens - the local politicians will hit their chests
If something bad happens, they blame the EU.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Only my opinion ( so basically the word of God ) the problem in the UK, is
each party wants power, not what's good for the country. Labour are desprate
for an election, as they're asuming they'd win, but given how divided the UK is
I think it would be another Hung parliament and not a well hung one, with a big
election. but a weak, indecisive one. So no change.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I laughed at this weeks question time, when Fiona Bruce said, that
nothing much had changed as the vote was still around 50/50. So I
hope she will then explain why the question time panel NEVER reflects
this ) you're lucky if you get a brexit supporter on it.
It really has become a parody of itself as a representation of the public overall. At best there are 1 in 5 panel members who are leavers!
Even more amusing was to see a younger audience member last night who was very clearly a 'plant' to stir things up, expressing a level of fear about the Brexit party that was akin to going to a KKK rally or equivalent. It was absolute puerile nonsense.
I don‘t know about political discussion panels in the Uk, but isn‘t a panel trying - besides of pro and con - politicians trying to get experts ( such as diplomats, ecomomists and others) to add up some competent stands?
It‘s then hardly surprising that there are no more Brexiteers in those panels because outside of the populist bubble nationally and internationally, there is a broad consensus, that Brexit is not a good idea. So demanding that Brexiteers are always equally represented is not really realistic.
We have the same discussion (on a smaller scale) because our Brownshirts - sorry - Alternative for Germany - bemoan the same and demand to be part of every political discussion and moan that most experts are not on their side.
It‘s the same pattern: Use and at the same time try to weaken Mass Media (as long as they are not totally on their side) and always be the victim and being not treated fair.
Booo-hooo
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Once again the voice of the EU, Propaganda is Fine !
no need for balance
Very much in the Russian style,a discussion on Putin's Russia with all
voices on the panel, Friends and relatives of Val Putin himself. That's the
sort of balanced reporting we can expect from the EU )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I think in a better world, or at least in a world with a better British government, there should be a second referendum. The first one should have asked if the voters wanted Britain to enter leave negotiations with the EU. The second would have been if the voters accept the negotiated treaty or they opted to remain in the EU.
So we just Ignore the first ? .....won't that lead to a loss of confidence in the idea of
voting at all ? if one out come can be ignored, until the public vote the " Correct " way
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Ah the good old “Let’s just keep on having referendums until the peasants finally fall in line & vote how we in power want” move.
Failing that, maybe a game of rock, paper, scissors or best of 9 until the decision changes?
One thing is for sure - if Remain has won the vote back in the referendum, we wouldn’t be having this carry on like now.
I still stand by my thinking months back ... we will not leave the EU in reality & I think the result of this will impact on the main political parties for some years to come.
No, not ignore the first. I wrote about what should have been done, not what happened.
The Brexit referndum was a choice between continuing the way things were (remain) or …… something else. The majority wanted "something else". I think it would have been a much better to let the first referendum be between continuing the way things were or negotiations to leave the EU. If negotiations won, a competent government would have started by having talks with the party groups in the parliment about what they wanted or at least found ecceptable when it comes to the negotiations. Then there would be negotiations with the EU and a treaty. Then there would be a second referendum where the voters could chose between remaining or leaving the EU with the negotiated treaty. Imagine that - a referendum with clear alternatives!
I'm a remainer, but we can't pick and choose which results to stand by. "Remain" lost, "Leave" won. End of story.
Sure we can and do talk endlessly about dirty tricks (Boris and his £350m, for example) but they aren't the big problem here. That, obviously, is the incompetence and self-centredness of the British Parliament (not just the Tories, though they are the major part) in dealing with the situation. And hopefully they will pay for that in the not too distant future.
I'm a remainer, but we can't pick and choose which results to stand by. "Remain" lost, "Leave" won. End of story.
Sure we can and do talk endlessly about dirty tricks (Boris and his £350m, for example) but they aren't the big problem here. That, obviously, is the incompetence and self-centredness of the British Parliament (not just the Tories, though they are the major part) in dealing with the situation. And hopefully they will pay for that in the not too distant future.
I agree. I just think the problem should have been handled much better by not letting the first referndum be between remain and "something else". Look at the chaos that referndum led to!
#24 the question was remain or leave and it always was. It was only after getting the “wrong” result that the government started to fudge the issue. I have never spoken to anyone who voted leave who didn’t think that leave meant leave and then start to negotiate deals.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
Leave means "something else" from being a member of the EU. That's all it is. There never was just one way of leaving the EU. Wasn't there eight alternatives when the House of Commons voted on it? One was remain and another was a new referendum, but the other six were different ways to leave the EU. I'm sure there are more possible models for being outside the Union. The referendum never said a word about this, so it was just a vote for "something else". I'm not supporting another referendum in this situation and I think Britain should leave the EU, anything else would be a major blow to the people's belief in democracy. That's a very dangerous thing, especially in today's world. But the whole process was done wrong and it resulted in chaos. To quote what the political editor in our biggest conservative newspaper said on a podcast: "You don't have a referendum first and then negotiate, it's the other way round".
In normal parliamentary elections, if the elected parties can‘t find a way to a majority to govern the country, they announce new elections.
It‘s a normal and democratic procedure, done all the time and everywhere.
Nobody puts the „Vote until the result fits“ argument then and there.
The UK parliament and government failed multiple times for a very long time to execute the result of the referendum ( whatever „Leaving the EU“ may mean).
So repeating the referendum seems to be a reasonable way to get out of that deadend instead of remaining on that vicious and unproductive path.
Anyhow, in the current climate, where populism, rage, hate and sarcasm have taken over, a new referendum sounds not like a good idea to me.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Anyhow, in the current climate, where populism, rage, hate and sarcasm have taken over, a new referendum sounds not like a good idea to me.
It would be undemocratic to have another referendum before the last one was implemented. And the rage, hate and sarcasm seems to be coming mainly from the Remain side from what I read.
For sake of clarity, I did not vote in the referendum because I am living outside of the UK, and even though I am entitled to vote, it would be unfair to do so.
What I do think is that democracy should prevail in all elections and referendums and any attempts to derail that process is sinsister and downright dangerous.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
It would be undemocratic to have another referendum before the last one was implemented. And the rage, hate and sarcasm seems to be coming mainly from the Remain side from what I read.
Along my example of parliamentary elections, if the politicians are not able to implement the voters choice, they call out new elections. Normal process. nothing undemocratic.
It‘s called putting the vote in the people‘s hands back.
From all UK politicians that I‘ ve heard in the last months, the hate comes from the Brexiteers, just look at the right wing of the Tories. And just look what instincts the Leave Camp played with and the Brexit Party was riding on. Most of it is based on Fear Anger and Revenge. Not sure how this could have been lost with you.
I am not saying that I like Corbyn‘s role at all though.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Comments
Decision will split the labour vote ( what's left of it ) as
Many Labour voters are also leave voters .
So she has not resigned from being chancellor and so she can't un-resign. And I doubt that she will run again.
She also said recently, that after 2021, she won't be running for a leading role in the UN or the EU.
I know that President Obama begged her to run for 2017 after Trump has been elected.
I have never voted for her or her party, but I think, that she was doing an outstanding job for Germany, the EU and more.
On another note, Facebook CEOs Zuckerberg and Sandberg ignored a Canadian subpoena about privacy issues.
I keep on repeating, that single countries are being conveniently ignored by these companies, unless there is a significant larger organisation like the EU ordering them to appear.
I am not saying, that their appearance at the EU was an EU masterpiece (it was quite pathetic on the part of the EU), but it hurts them when the EU fines them.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
the master of spin, went just a little too far this time.
He'll have plenty of time to spin in the grave marked 'New Labour'.
As people were saying on the radio today Corbyn & Co. weren't as quick to expel members accused of antisemitism. That suggests that it was more about wanting to publicly make an example of Campbell than anything else. His wife certainly thinks that, and I'd have to agree.
He did...he answered a direct question
He only made this ‘public’ after the election so they can’t kick him out.
Well if that was his reasoning he was sadly mistaken as they still kicked him out of Labour. Campbell's going to appeal it though.
Trump: „I Like Johnson and Farage“
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48462677
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/04/piers-morgan-why-as-a-former-remainer-id-now-back-leave
What Morgan says (as a Remainer who would now back Brexit in any second EU referendum) may dash the hopes of the likes of Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell who believe such a referendum would overturn Brexit by a majority of people voting to Remain in the EU after all. Here's a quote from the start of the piece which sums the matter of a second referendum up very well:
I voted Remain, and still don’t think Brexit is a good idea. However, if there were to be a second EU referendum, I would vote Leave. Not because I’ve experienced some Damascene conversion to the Brexit cause — I haven’t met anyone who has changed their mind about it and suspect these people don’t exist outside Alastair Campbell’s hysterical Remoaner mind — but because I would be so furious at a second referendum happening at all. What’s going on now is a disgrace: a House of Commons packed with Remainer MPs trying everything in its power to reverse the 2016 result or dilute Brexit so much that it ceases to resemble anything that Leavers voted for. I find this assault on our democracy far more sinister than anything that might befall us in the event of a no-deal departure from Europe, not least because those shouting loudest about what a disaster no deal would be — like Campbell and Tony Blair — all once assured me that if Britain didn’t join the euro, it would also be a disaster, and in fact it was the best thing we never did. Also, let’s not forget these were the same people who dragged us into the calamitous war with Iraq — without even contemplating the notion of a ‘People’s Vote’. As for the patronising idea that no Leavers knew what they were voting for, I simply say this: they all assumed voting Leave meant ‘leaving the European Union’, as stated on the ballot paper, not partly staying in it. So the much-scorned ‘crashing out with no deal’ option is most in line with what people probably thought they were getting.
Just for the record, I would certainly not hesitate one jot to vote Leave again, if the powers that be are foolish enough to ask the same question twice, expecting a different (or as they might perceive it the "right") answer. See the Republic of Ireland and the second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty in October 2009 for more on this approach.
Such an overturned result is what the EU hopes for, and wearying the UK public by needlessly dragging out the process is of course in their self-interest. It also acts as a warning to any other malcontents who might also be desiring a referendum on continued EU membership (France, Italy, Greece?).
nothing much had changed as the vote was still around 50/50. So I
hope she will then explain why the question time panel NEVER reflects
this
So a Hard Brexit is not in the EU interest and it should not be in the interest of UK leaders.
I personally don‘t believe that a second referendum would make anything better - quite the contrary.
That the EU is behind dragging the Brexit process is just phantasy. It was the UK who have asked for new deadlines twice already because the House of parliament could not get their act together.
Like someone said: if something good happens - the local politicians will hit their chests
If something bad happens, they blame the EU.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
each party wants power, not what's good for the country. Labour are desprate
for an election, as they're asuming they'd win, but given how divided the UK is
I think it would be another Hung parliament and not a well hung one, with a big
election.
It really has become a parody of itself as a representation of the public overall. At best there are 1 in 5 panel members who are leavers!
Even more amusing was to see a younger audience member last night who was very clearly a 'plant' to stir things up, expressing a level of fear about the Brexit party that was akin to going to a KKK rally or equivalent. It was absolute puerile nonsense.
It‘s then hardly surprising that there are no more Brexiteers in those panels because outside of the populist bubble nationally and internationally, there is a broad consensus, that Brexit is not a good idea. So demanding that Brexiteers are always equally represented is not really realistic.
We have the same discussion (on a smaller scale) because our Brownshirts - sorry - Alternative for Germany - bemoan the same and demand to be part of every political discussion and moan that most experts are not on their side.
It‘s the same pattern: Use and at the same time try to weaken Mass Media (as long as they are not totally on their side) and always be the victim and being not treated fair.
Booo-hooo
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
no need for balance
Very much in the Russian style,a discussion on Putin's Russia with all
voices on the panel, Friends and relatives of Val Putin himself. That's the
sort of balanced reporting we can expect from the EU
voting at all ? if one out come can be ignored, until the public vote the " Correct " way
Failing that, maybe a game of rock, paper, scissors or best of 9 until the decision changes?
One thing is for sure - if Remain has won the vote back in the referendum, we wouldn’t be having this carry on like now.
I still stand by my thinking months back ... we will not leave the EU in reality & I think the result of this will impact on the main political parties for some years to come.
The Brexit referndum was a choice between continuing the way things were (remain) or …… something else. The majority wanted "something else". I think it would have been a much better to let the first referendum be between continuing the way things were or negotiations to leave the EU. If negotiations won, a competent government would have started by having talks with the party groups in the parliment about what they wanted or at least found ecceptable when it comes to the negotiations. Then there would be negotiations with the EU and a treaty. Then there would be a second referendum where the voters could chose between remaining or leaving the EU with the negotiated treaty. Imagine that - a referendum with clear alternatives!
Sure we can and do talk endlessly about dirty tricks (Boris and his £350m, for example) but they aren't the big problem here. That, obviously, is the incompetence and self-centredness of the British Parliament (not just the Tories, though they are the major part) in dealing with the situation. And hopefully they will pay for that in the not too distant future.
I agree. I just think the problem should have been handled much better by not letting the first referndum be between remain and "something else". Look at the chaos that referndum led to!
It‘s a normal and democratic procedure, done all the time and everywhere.
Nobody puts the „Vote until the result fits“ argument then and there.
The UK parliament and government failed multiple times for a very long time to execute the result of the referendum ( whatever „Leaving the EU“ may mean).
So repeating the referendum seems to be a reasonable way to get out of that deadend instead of remaining on that vicious and unproductive path.
Anyhow, in the current climate, where populism, rage, hate and sarcasm have taken over, a new referendum sounds not like a good idea to me.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It would be undemocratic to have another referendum before the last one was implemented. And the rage, hate and sarcasm seems to be coming mainly from the Remain side from what I read.
For sake of clarity, I did not vote in the referendum because I am living outside of the UK, and even though I am entitled to vote, it would be unfair to do so.
What I do think is that democracy should prevail in all elections and referendums and any attempts to derail that process is sinsister and downright dangerous.
Along my example of parliamentary elections, if the politicians are not able to implement the voters choice, they call out new elections. Normal process. nothing undemocratic.
It‘s called putting the vote in the people‘s hands back.
From all UK politicians that I‘ ve heard in the last months, the hate comes from the Brexiteers, just look at the right wing of the Tories. And just look what instincts the Leave Camp played with and the Brexit Party was riding on. Most of it is based on Fear Anger and Revenge. Not sure how this could have been lost with you.
I am not saying that I like Corbyn‘s role at all though.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!