DAF - Blofeld in drag
LALD - Kananga inflating and exploding
TMWTGG - End fight with Nic Nac
MR - Just about the entire movie
FYEO - The line 'I'll buy you etc.'/Margaret and Dennis Thatcher. Really dates it.
OP - Tarzan yell/Bond disguised as clown
AVTAK - Beach Boys song
DAD - Invisible car
DAD- climax aboard the plane with Graves/Bond's fight inter cut with Jinx/Miranda. Far more suitable for another franchise but not Bondian enough for me.
CR- Miami airport action sequence drags on and i can't wait to get to the M sequence..... as well as the novel's story-line.
QoS- Opening shot of the film is missing something that would have made that shot even cooler.
SF- Opening shot is missing something- just as well as the shot in the film is so blurry and out of focus I might as well be watching a VHS recording off of antenna television.
ha! mines another from aVTaK: the firetruck chase
which as well is being stoopid, adds nothing to the plot, and I think is completely discrete from the relevant parts of the story that occur immediately before and after
next time I watch the film I'm going to see if there's a chapter stop, I shall try advancing to the next scene as soon as Bond reveals his true identity to the Stacy and the cops and hopefully it lands me right at the beginning of the next non-firetruck chase scene
It is pretty crap, although I do find the destruction of the cop cars on the bridge entertaining and funny...
I love the part where the cops drive onto the bridge and one gets stuck at the top, pretty hilarious for me personally. I love the firetruck chase, I mean come on it's Roger Moore bond and we've had so many campy chases before this, yet people hate more on this one? The chase actually seems genuinely sad to me because it's his last movie after all these years and you can tell.
I love the part where the cops drive onto the bridge and one gets stuck at the top, pretty hilarious for me personally. I love the firetruck chase, I mean come on it's Roger Moore bond and we've had so many campy chases before this, yet people hate more on this one? The chase actually seems genuinely sad to me because it's his last movie after all these years and you can tell.
now, now, I didn't say I hate the scene, but I do genuinely dislike it enough that I'd prefer to skip right over if I could figure out how. That is the topic of the thread. In these times of renewed mainstream racism we should not be trivializing the word "hate".
Yes I know Roger did a bunch of these scenes, See my other posts in this thread comparing and contrasting the three near consecutive chase scenes in Live and Let Die.
I also had this to say recently in the Moonraker thread:
the gondola chase is completely stoopid, every aspect of it. Why does he even get in the gondola after speaking with Holly? such an inefficient murder attempt, entirely slapstick, makes no sense, not a single damn aspect of that whole never-ending sequence ... I guess it does show off the canals
I actually prefer the way the LaLD boatchase shows off the bayous, aside from Pepper (who is funny in small spots) it makes sense. But why such an overcomplicated assassination attempt in Venice? why not just stick a shiv in his belly in a crowded piazza and be done with it?
we should maybe list all of Rogers chase scenes and rank and dissect them. I don't genuinely dislike all of them. Some of them are my favourite sequences in all the films.
The Citroen chase in For Your Eyes Only I recently defended as being brilliantly choreographed and executed.
There are several near consecutive chases that make up the last half of Octopussy. I like the sense of continuous forward motion nearly as much as the neverending skichases in OHMSS.
And of course the Lotus chase in the Spy Who Loved Me is pure movie magic (even if it too can be accused of being inefficient, and of course gimmicky)
So yes, Roger did a lot of these zany chase scenes. Some of them were very clever and I always look forward to that part of the film. Some of them were so stoopid and irrelevant I would skip over them if I could.
At this juncture I'd like to mention some of Sir Rogers wonderfully brilliant chase scenes, tswlm the lotus in sardinia, even the part where jaws walks out of the house with the cortina in the roof. The ski chase in FYEO, I'm sure Spectre homages the part where Eric blasts through the barn on his bike, when the snowplane does something very similar. The alfa gtv6 in Germany in octopussy, it's just tremendous fun. Again in octopussy the put put chase with vijay driving.
But I have little time for the fire scene in avtak where stacey is trapped on the elevator roof! That bloody screaming and the " stacey, stacey grab hold of my hose "
Any scene where obvious/gratuitous use of Stuntmen shatters the illusion. For example I don't think that Pierce is a Skier and to me it looks so obvious that he is not that suspension of disbelief is difficult to maintain. Of course I don't expect the actor to do everything, but I do expect the filmmakers to hide that from us. Standards and techniques have changed over time so it's unfair to compare current with older entries. However on occasion the standard has been poor.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
Any scene where obvious/gratuitous use of Stuntmen shatters the illusion. For example I don't think that Pierce is a Skier and to me it looks so obvious that he is not that suspension of disbelief is difficult to maintain. Of course I don't expect the actor to do everything, but I do expect the filmmakers to hide that from us. Standards and techniques have changed over time so it's unfair to compare current with older entries. However on occasion the standard has been poor.
Yes, bond jumping onto the elevator at the effiel tower in avtak is such a scene.
He did look fit and thinner but we can’t excuse the fact that they didn’t hide the stunt doubles, and that Paris chase is just a disappointment because of it. You have to wonder what if Roger just didn’t want to do action scenes anymore or if the producers were lazy
He did look fit and thinner but we can’t excuse the fact that they didn’t hide the stunt doubles, and that Paris chase is just a disappointment because of it. You have to wonder what if Roger just didn’t want to do action scenes anymore or if the producers were lazy
Thing is these films weren't intended to be watched in 4K on massive TV screens 100 times with the scrutiny of people like us. You would see it on the big screen maybe once or twice and because things are going so quickly - you wouldn't notice or care.
Modern films take the consideration of rewatch and can get away with more.
It's not an excuse and I think the car chopped in half "Roger" is a major error - but, I can suspend my disbelief that "it's how they used to do it".
I think that Moore's Bond being visibly old and this being the end of an era, it was a climax to his whole run as Bond.
I mean, it has a damsel in distress, a crazy villain and his odd choice of transport (like Scaramanga), the slow henchman (like OP), original use of a landmark (like the pyramids) and then the punchline which grounds him to reality after going against all odds.
It would never work with Dalton and if it did, i wouldn't have half the impact these final scenes had. It would've just come across as very generic.
He did look fit and thinner but we can’t excuse the fact that they didn’t hide the stunt doubles, and that Paris chase is just a disappointment because of it. You have to wonder what if Roger just didn’t want to do action scenes anymore or if the producers were lazy
Thing is these films weren't intended to be watched in 4K on massive TV screens 100 times with the scrutiny of people like us. You would see it on the big screen maybe once or twice and because things are going so quickly - you wouldn't notice or care.
Modern films take the consideration of rewatch and can get away with more.
It's not an excuse and I think the car chopped in half "Roger" is a major error - but, I can suspend my disbelief that "it's how they used to do it".
Oh I'm not so sure, I watched taken 3 last night, there are some absolute howlers, like the cop car which gets hit 5 times by oncoming traffic then drives off without a scratch! Or even the Porsche that rams a plane and is then seen in the background totally intact, Neeson just about gets away with ot with the help of over editing, Sir Rog did a decent job in avtak and op for the day.
As Roger Moore as Bond is an old naval and secret service agent.I'm certain he would still be fit enough. To do some
Running and jumping for Britain. -{
Try telling a few veterans they're too old )
For me at least Roger's charm makes up for any other
Failings.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
It would never work with Dalton and if it did, i wouldn't have half the impact these final scenes had. It would've just come across as very generic.
I believe this too. I don't think Dalton could have pulled off a lot of the things that Moore does in this film, and though it has some of the harder-edged types of scenes that Dalton's films had Dalton's harder edge wouldn't have added anything to AVTAK. The visible stunt doubles weren't the real problem with the Paris chase, so I don't think having Dalton there would have fixed the scene. The film would have needed a considerable re-write to have worked with Dalton.
The film would have needed a considerable re-write to have worked with Dalton.
Not really. In my opinion, some tweaks here and there to adjust the tone of the film to a more serious vibe would have been all that was needed. Remove/adjust some of the quips and handle the Bond/May Day bedroom scene in a different manner and I think you would have had a solid Dalton film.
Would you buy Dalton as James St John Smythe? Dalton in the hot tub?
No that wouldn't work according to Timothy Dalton's style in my opinion. Those bits were just thrown in there for the hell of cheap laughs and filling in time.
Somehow, imagining Dalton with MayDay, her seduction would be twice as cringe-y.
Roger's charm and style feel much more adaptable to situations and surroundings and we would've lost the brilliant scenes with Sir Godfrey. Dalton looks too young and he would've been unbelievable as a St John Smythe in the 80s unless it was a period film. It would need a major re-write for that reason alone.
On View To a Kill, I don't mind most of the "cheap-laugh" bits because it's more of a guilty pleasure film for me more than anything.
I don't know if anyone else feels that way but this film feels less well made than OP, both as a script and in its execution.
Every single buck spent on MR and SWLM are on screen but in the 80s films, it just isn't filmed that way. DAD suffers from that as-well, for me anyway. It's a wise director who knows when to move on, and Glen should've left after OP and EON had someone else direct VTAK.
People in the "alternate Bond timelines" thread have suggested Dalton had started in OP.
Again, I can see him running around in East/West Germany but none of the India scenes would've worked, nor would Maud Adams be seen as age-appropriate for him.
I don't know if anyone else feels that way but this film feels less well made than OP, both as a script and in its execution.
Every single buck spent on MR and SWLM are on screen but in the 80s films, it just isn't filmed that way. DAD suffers from that as-well, for me anyway. It's a wise director who knows when to move on, and Glen should've left after OP and EON had someone else direct VTAK.
I would respectfully disagree. FYEO, OP and TLD were definitely John Glen's strong points in my opinion, with AVTAK and LTK being the low points. They're still great films and I love them, but where AVTAK has stunt doubles and a general lazy production at times, LTK can feel cheap in terms of it's locations and the lack of action scenes. If I could though, I would have wanted John Glen to direct the 1991 'Property Of A Lady'. I like Martin Campbell and his work in GE, but I disliked the rest of Pierce Brosnan's films and happily would have stuck to Glen's directing for another 1 or 2 films.
Should've put "some" as that isn't really the case on FYEO and OP.
Anyway, to each their own.
I just feel that the 70s films have a much wider scope and you can see everything they had done for the film.
Even on Diamonds, I sometimes got lost in the surroundings, which is never a bad thing.
We did TMWTGG the other night. I sure wish that the fantastic spiral jump didn't have that slide whistle to sabotage the perfection of that moment in the film.
) The car jump is awesome but the slide whistle seems to take something away from its brilliance. It makes light of something which deserves respect.
I personally much prefer the serious, Fleming style Bond films of the 80's over the 70's which I felt was a bleak time for Bond. If it hadn't been for TSWLM or even MR I would not have enjoyed the decade and would have ranked it as low as the 90's and 2000's.
AVTAK is a hell of a lot better made than LTK and I don't think it comes down to Glen - it's Cubby's involvement - who was less present in the production of LTK.
AVTAK (like TLD) still gets that classic Bond treatment and the production values are clearly visible.
AVTAK is a hell of a lot better made than LTK and I don't think it comes down to Glen - it's Cubby's involvement - who was less present in the production of LTK.
AVTAK (like TLD) still gets that classic Bond treatment and the production values are clearly visible.
In terms of which is made better as a bond movie, AVTAK would probably get that credit. The only problems I had with AVTAK's production were the stunt doubles throughout Paris and literally the first half of the movie, as I mentioned earlier which could be lazy directing but I'm no expert on how movies are made.
LTK on the other hand doesn't have these issues, but the bleak locations, general lack of action (besides the opening, underwater scene and tanker chase) and out of bond character scenes do make it easier to notice. While both of them have their flaws, I would say LTK is the better movie but they're pretty close (I enjoy them both though and have them both highly ranked). They're both entertaining and especially 'dark' thrillers and would still say that these two movies along with TLD would be the darkest in the series. I read somewhere that John Glen regarded OP and LTK as his best two movies which is very interesting.
Are you able to elaborate on what you said regarding AVTAK having clearer production values? Maybe I've missed something.
Are you able to elaborate on what you said regarding AVTAK having clearer production values? Maybe I've missed something.
I think it's the globe-trotting, definitely.
San Francisco is wonderfully shot and getting access to the estate for such a long time must've been pricey.
Sets are not that well designed though. Wish Ken Adam was still there. Not megalomaniac-ey enough although the blimp's nice and they try to make it as realistic as possible with the offices and such so it must've been hard to squeeze in such sets.
Comments
LALD - Kananga inflating and exploding
TMWTGG - End fight with Nic Nac
MR - Just about the entire movie
FYEO - The line 'I'll buy you etc.'/Margaret and Dennis Thatcher. Really dates it.
OP - Tarzan yell/Bond disguised as clown
AVTAK - Beach Boys song
DAD - Invisible car
CR- Miami airport action sequence drags on and i can't wait to get to the M sequence..... as well as the novel's story-line.
QoS- Opening shot of the film is missing something that would have made that shot even cooler.
SF- Opening shot is missing something- just as well as the shot in the film is so blurry and out of focus I might as well be watching a VHS recording off of antenna television.
new films !
I love the part where the cops drive onto the bridge and one gets stuck at the top, pretty hilarious for me personally. I love the firetruck chase, I mean come on it's Roger Moore bond and we've had so many campy chases before this, yet people hate more on this one? The chase actually seems genuinely sad to me because it's his last movie after all these years and you can tell.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
"Better make that two."
There are parts that totally suit Roger Moore, but then again a lot of the movie (particularly the second half) suit Timothy Dalton.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
-{
Yes I know Roger did a bunch of these scenes, See my other posts in this thread comparing and contrasting the three near consecutive chase scenes in Live and Let Die.
I also had this to say recently in the Moonraker thread: I actually prefer the way the LaLD boatchase shows off the bayous, aside from Pepper (who is funny in small spots) it makes sense. But why such an overcomplicated assassination attempt in Venice? why not just stick a shiv in his belly in a crowded piazza and be done with it?
we should maybe list all of Rogers chase scenes and rank and dissect them. I don't genuinely dislike all of them. Some of them are my favourite sequences in all the films.
The Citroen chase in For Your Eyes Only I recently defended as being brilliantly choreographed and executed.
There are several near consecutive chases that make up the last half of Octopussy. I like the sense of continuous forward motion nearly as much as the neverending skichases in OHMSS.
And of course the Lotus chase in the Spy Who Loved Me is pure movie magic (even if it too can be accused of being inefficient, and of course gimmicky)
So yes, Roger did a lot of these zany chase scenes. Some of them were very clever and I always look forward to that part of the film. Some of them were so stoopid and irrelevant I would skip over them if I could.
But I have little time for the fire scene in avtak where stacey is trapped on the elevator roof! That bloody screaming and the " stacey, stacey grab hold of my hose "
Yes, bond jumping onto the elevator at the effiel tower in avtak is such a scene.
I disagree. I think he looked fitter and slimmer in AVTAK than he did in OP.
The only scene in AVTAK where he looks bad IMO is in the car on the way to Stacey's place...
"Better make that two."
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
Thing is these films weren't intended to be watched in 4K on massive TV screens 100 times with the scrutiny of people like us. You would see it on the big screen maybe once or twice and because things are going so quickly - you wouldn't notice or care.
Modern films take the consideration of rewatch and can get away with more.
It's not an excuse and I think the car chopped in half "Roger" is a major error - but, I can suspend my disbelief that "it's how they used to do it".
"Better make that two."
I mean, it has a damsel in distress, a crazy villain and his odd choice of transport (like Scaramanga), the slow henchman (like OP), original use of a landmark (like the pyramids) and then the punchline which grounds him to reality after going against all odds.
It would never work with Dalton and if it did, i wouldn't have half the impact these final scenes had. It would've just come across as very generic.
Oh I'm not so sure, I watched taken 3 last night, there are some absolute howlers, like the cop car which gets hit 5 times by oncoming traffic then drives off without a scratch! Or even the Porsche that rams a plane and is then seen in the background totally intact, Neeson just about gets away with ot with the help of over editing, Sir Rog did a decent job in avtak and op for the day.
Running and jumping for Britain. -{
Try telling a few veterans they're too old
For me at least Roger's charm makes up for any other
Failings.
I believe this too. I don't think Dalton could have pulled off a lot of the things that Moore does in this film, and though it has some of the harder-edged types of scenes that Dalton's films had Dalton's harder edge wouldn't have added anything to AVTAK. The visible stunt doubles weren't the real problem with the Paris chase, so I don't think having Dalton there would have fixed the scene. The film would have needed a considerable re-write to have worked with Dalton.
Would you buy Dalton as James St John Smythe? Dalton in the hot tub?
Hot tub acting
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
Roger's charm and style feel much more adaptable to situations and surroundings and we would've lost the brilliant scenes with Sir Godfrey. Dalton looks too young and he would've been unbelievable as a St John Smythe in the 80s unless it was a period film. It would need a major re-write for that reason alone.
On View To a Kill, I don't mind most of the "cheap-laugh" bits because it's more of a guilty pleasure film for me more than anything.
I don't know if anyone else feels that way but this film feels less well made than OP, both as a script and in its execution.
Every single buck spent on MR and SWLM are on screen but in the 80s films, it just isn't filmed that way. DAD suffers from that as-well, for me anyway. It's a wise director who knows when to move on, and Glen should've left after OP and EON had someone else direct VTAK.
People in the "alternate Bond timelines" thread have suggested Dalton had started in OP.
Again, I can see him running around in East/West Germany but none of the India scenes would've worked, nor would Maud Adams be seen as age-appropriate for him.
I would respectfully disagree. FYEO, OP and TLD were definitely John Glen's strong points in my opinion, with AVTAK and LTK being the low points. They're still great films and I love them, but where AVTAK has stunt doubles and a general lazy production at times, LTK can feel cheap in terms of it's locations and the lack of action scenes. If I could though, I would have wanted John Glen to direct the 1991 'Property Of A Lady'. I like Martin Campbell and his work in GE, but I disliked the rest of Pierce Brosnan's films and happily would have stuck to Glen's directing for another 1 or 2 films.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
Anyway, to each their own.
I just feel that the 70s films have a much wider scope and you can see everything they had done for the film.
Even on Diamonds, I sometimes got lost in the surroundings, which is never a bad thing.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
AVTAK (like TLD) still gets that classic Bond treatment and the production values are clearly visible.
"Better make that two."
In terms of which is made better as a bond movie, AVTAK would probably get that credit. The only problems I had with AVTAK's production were the stunt doubles throughout Paris and literally the first half of the movie, as I mentioned earlier which could be lazy directing but I'm no expert on how movies are made.
LTK on the other hand doesn't have these issues, but the bleak locations, general lack of action (besides the opening, underwater scene and tanker chase) and out of bond character scenes do make it easier to notice. While both of them have their flaws, I would say LTK is the better movie but they're pretty close (I enjoy them both though and have them both highly ranked). They're both entertaining and especially 'dark' thrillers and would still say that these two movies along with TLD would be the darkest in the series. I read somewhere that John Glen regarded OP and LTK as his best two movies which is very interesting.
Are you able to elaborate on what you said regarding AVTAK having clearer production values? Maybe I've missed something.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Craig 5. Lazenby 6. Brosnan
I think it's the globe-trotting, definitely.
San Francisco is wonderfully shot and getting access to the estate for such a long time must've been pricey.
Sets are not that well designed though. Wish Ken Adam was still there. Not megalomaniac-ey enough although the blimp's nice and they try to make it as realistic as possible with the offices and such so it must've been hard to squeeze in such sets.