golden gun

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  • danjaq_0ffdanjaq_0ff The SwampsPosts: 7,283MI6 Agent
    Looking good, different and dainty -{
  • parfaitelumiereparfaitelumiere Posts: 153MI6 Agent
    I ordered the cirrect bolts and axes for the cufflinks, ordered 10 of each, so I will have 10 cufflinks sets to offer.
    I contacted him for bullet replicas, 2 parts versions, so it will be more accurate to a real bullet with a nicerim on the top of the sleeve, and polished bullet but less polished sleeve.
    To be right, I think the sleeves would be from brass (rough brass?) and bullets from gold (gold plated brass) if the sleeves are made from gold, it may be too weak for correct ignition.
    Or maybe Laser has built solid gold bullets with gold plated brass sleeves?
    I didn't put the vice to make separate ignition caps, the sleeves have fake cap engraving only.
    Looking forward to get a chunghwa case and put some gold inside.
  • parfaitelumiereparfaitelumiere Posts: 153MI6 Agent
    I don't know what to do, here is my problem.
    I am working on the cigarette case, and in fact it seems there were 4 different cases in the movie.
    The one with opening for cigarettes.
    The one with gun assembly
    The one on firing gun
    The one on static gun.
    One the box with opening, the opening side lid has a diagonal cut, and only has this shape, no additionnal design on body to simulate a straight lid, and the guilloché is on all the main body.
    on other side, the glossy end is a separate piece, added after the guilloché is made.
    On the box with gun assembly, it seems the lid is glossy, and there is a glossy area on the body, to simulate a straight lid, the glossy area is solid with mody.
    On the firing gun box, there is a separate glossy area, simulating a straight lid.
    On the static gun it seems the box is same as the spare box, diagonal cut lid with no glossy area on body.
    Which version should I choose, I am very interested in making the spare version, as the cigarette box will be working.
    Also, there is no red gem or button on this version, I only see one red thing on the firing gun or the one I suppose to be the firing gun( the one visible on most exhibitions)
    I am thinking about this, because it would be the best way to get a nice guilloché finish.

    I modified the box thickness, from 14 to 15mm, as I also modified the lighter height, from 32 to 33mm, and reducing the bevels on edges, I enlarged the colibri engraving and made it thicker too.
    The diamond cuts have lower profile now, with remaining material on the tips, so the guy will be able to make a perfect finish with his machines, without having to remove lots of material, it will also avoid the casting issues, especially on 3D printed file, I so some missing material here and there.
    I enlarged the lighter axis and holes, from 2 to 3mm, much more accurate and possible to order with already drilled holes.

    It's really funny, because I downloaded the movie to study the gun, and I saw how the actor makes assembly, and I made the exactly same process, even I saw the movie some years ago...
  • danjaq_0ffdanjaq_0ff The SwampsPosts: 7,283MI6 Agent
    Have you ever read Burt Luxfords book ? it states that there was only one GG used during filming, made by Colibri, it had interchangeable pen barrels of which I owned one, Iris Rose ( Logistics Manager among other things, the true archivist ) confirms this. The one remaining GG in the archive was made by Rose the Jewellers but was not ready for filming the only time we see it is during the titles.

    So sorry you are wrong, one cigarette case was used, it was damaged early on in production and Bert Luxford was given the task of fixing it.
  • ppw3o6rppw3o6r Great BritainPosts: 2,268MI6 Agent
    danjaq_0ff wrote:
    Have you ever read Burt Luxfords book ? it states that there was only one GG used during filming, made by Colibri, it had interchangeable pen barrels of which I owned one, Iris Rose ( Logistics Manager among other things, the true archivist ) confirms this. The one remaining GG in the archive was made by Rose the Jewellers but was not ready for filming the only time we see it is during the titles.

    So sorry you are wrong, one cigarette case was used, it was damaged early on in production and Bert Luxford was given the task of fixing it.

    An insert from The Most Famous Gun In The World, directly quoting the text from Albert Luxford's book The Gimmick Man"

    There is however an alternate record of the origins of Francisco Scaramanga's weapon of choice as told by the late Albetrt Luxford in his book "The Gimmick Man":
    The Man with the Golden Gun, after a little mishap on set.
    Ah, yes. Don’t get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for actors, but also know that they’re not all technical experts either, and don’t always appreciate what might go into making something. Well, a lighter company called Colibri made the actual golden gun, which came together by assembling a cigarette case, lighter, cufflink and pen. It was gorgeous, and was all diamond cut. But someone made the mistake of giving it to an actor – I don’t know who, or how – to play around with and it was dropped, smashing into tiny pieces.
    A frantic art director came running into my workshop and said, “they’ve busted the gun!” and he asked me if I could make another one.
    I asked how long, and he said, “You’ve got a little more than tomorrow.” I said I’d need a little more than two weeks, at least.
    I got together with a colleague of mine, Curly Currs, who was a gunsmith, and we set about making another one, out of more durable brass. The thing was, we knew that it then had to go over to Ireland to be diamond cut, as that was the only place it was done, and that would add days.
    The film schedule was re-arranged, and we worked around the clock. We made it in just over a week, and flew it to Ireland. It was on stage within a fortnight of the “incident.” Of course we all realized that Colibri’s mistake was in making only one of the guns; really, they should have had a standby one too, but we all live and learn -{
  • danjaq_0ffdanjaq_0ff The SwampsPosts: 7,283MI6 Agent
    ppw3o6r wrote:
    danjaq_0ff wrote:
    Have you ever read Burt Luxfords book ? it states that there was only one GG used during filming, made by Colibri, it had interchangeable pen barrels of which I owned one, Iris Rose ( Logistics Manager among other things, the true archivist ) confirms this. The one remaining GG in the archive was made by Rose the Jewellers but was not ready for filming the only time we see it is during the titles.

    So sorry you are wrong, one cigarette case was used, it was damaged early on in production and Bert Luxford was given the task of fixing it.

    An insert from The Most Famous Gun In The World, directly quoting the text from Albert Luxford's book The Gimmick Man"

    There is however an alternate record of the origins of Francisco Scaramanga's weapon of choice as told by the late Albetrt Luxford in his book "The Gimmick Man":
    The Man with the Golden Gun, after a little mishap on set.
    Ah, yes. Don’t get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for actors, but also know that they’re not all technical experts either, and don’t always appreciate what might go into making something. Well, a lighter company called Colibri made the actual golden gun, which came together by assembling a cigarette case, lighter, cufflink and pen. It was gorgeous, and was all diamond cut. But someone made the mistake of giving it to an actor – I don’t know who, or how – to play around with and it was dropped, smashing into tiny pieces.
    A frantic art director came running into my workshop and said, “they’ve busted the gun!” and he asked me if I could make another one.
    I asked how long, and he said, “You’ve got a little more than tomorrow.” I said I’d need a little more than two weeks, at least.
    I got together with a colleague of mine, Curly Currs, who was a gunsmith, and we set about making another one, out of more durable brass. The thing was, we knew that it then had to go over to Ireland to be diamond cut, as that was the only place it was done, and that would add days.
    The film schedule was re-arranged, and we worked around the clock. We made it in just over a week, and flew it to Ireland. It was on stage within a fortnight of the “incident.” Of course we all realized that Colibri’s mistake was in making only one of the guns; really, they should have had a standby one too, but we all live and learn -{

    Thank you for that Donk :x
  • parfaitelumiereparfaitelumiere Posts: 153MI6 Agent
    edited September 2018
    So, the gun we see on exhibition is a different from filming?
    Or maybe you are meaning solid and firing guns are same, with different pen barrel?
  • danjaq_0ffdanjaq_0ff The SwampsPosts: 7,283MI6 Agent
    So, the gun we see on exhibition is a different from filming?
    Or maybe you are meaning solid and firing guns are same, with different pen barrel?

    Yes, the gun seen on display is the Rose Jewellers Gun, not the Colibri/Luxford Gun
  • parfaitelumiereparfaitelumiere Posts: 153MI6 Agent
    edited September 2018
    ok, it's explaining a lot, but there are also some things I don't understand.
    Teh gun with hand and bullet is another gun, and the one in lulu's hand is the same as the one with hand and bullet, and different from the one I saw in movie, and the one on display actually.
    then, the cigarette cases I still count 3 in the movie, or at least two, because the second one is maybe different on both sides, I don't know.
    One is simple, straight ends, other has a tapered one, and a large hidden button near it, wa can see the back side fo this box when Scaramanga is assembling the gun, and no glossy gond band on that side, however on the dinner scene, we see a glossy band to complete the lid shape, one the box with larger lighter, on the box with smaller lighter, both ends are straight and not openable, easy to see, because there is no visible axis.

    pieces_4.png

    Then the promotionnal scaramanga pictures have the glazed pen, the colibri lighter with popping inner and hidden button on top, and box has a glossy area to complete the lid, there is an axis on the box lid, so it's openable not solid.
    The one lulu is holding is very close, looks like same lighter, and same pen, but different box, no glossy area here, it looks like the same as the one with hand and bullet.
    I am not speaking about who wrote what in books, just what I see on screen and on google, and what I see are different guns, or parts, however what you explain is very interesting, now I understand why I didn't see this shiny exhibition gun anywhere in the movie, all I saw had glazed pens, not glossy, even it's not easy to see the firing gun in details.
    So the solid and firing guns are the same with 2 barrels, interesting.
    Even the cufflinks I saw as auction pictures are not always used, on the assembly scene, both cufflinks have a bolt, the auctions ones only had one cufflink with a bolt
    I will make multiple view pictures of screengrabs and photos of each gun and parts I think to be, and you will tell me what you think.
  • parfaitelumiereparfaitelumiere Posts: 153MI6 Agent
    here are the cufflinks I found,

    On top, it's with diamond shape axis, like the right one from christies auction.
    left hand is missing.
    I don't know if this is a pair made from different cufflinks, or if the left one is taken from scen on the bottom, but on bottom we see both cufflinks, and both have bolt.
    a few seconds later he has only one on right hand, left is on the gun (?)


    Capture_d_cran_2018-09-08_16.52.02.png
  • Quentin QuigleyQuentin Quigley Terminal One, Hamburg AirportPosts: 1,146MI6 Agent
    Amazing work so far, parfaitelumiere. That bullet looks the business. I would have the primer as a separate piece too, to show a visible seam.

    No expert on the GG here, but there are at least three different lids seen in the film:

    1) When Scaramanga shoots Gibson (hole in the end; prominent lip surrounding hole; thicker 'fins')
    2) When Scaramanga places the pen on the dinner table in front of Bond (no hole; fins run right around the lid from the clip to the other side)
    3) When Scaramanga points the gun at Bond at the dinner table (close-up shot) (hole in the end; hole lip looks flush with the surrounding lid end; thinner fins)


    At least two different lighters (or maybe just the slide-out section) used on the assembled gun:

    1) When Scaramanga first points the gun at Bond at the dinner table, the first shot shows the part that slides out of the lighter where it contacts the cigarette case lid, as flat.
    2) In the very next shot, it is not entirely flat- the side edges have a gap.

    The two different lids with the holes change between those very two shots as well.

    If I were making this prop, I would just make all variant parts, and swap them around however I like :))
    Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
  • danjaq_0ffdanjaq_0ff The SwampsPosts: 7,283MI6 Agent
    edited September 2018
    I did mention before "interchangeable pens" Pic curtesy of Ed Maggiani -{


    007-_GG_Waterman_Pen-_Real_Prop_2.jpg

    and the pen that I was gifted


    007-_GG_Waterman_Pen-_Real_Prop_0.jpg
    007-_GG_Waterman_Pen-_Real_Prop_10.jpg
  • Quentin QuigleyQuentin Quigley Terminal One, Hamburg AirportPosts: 1,146MI6 Agent
    edited September 2018
    danjaq_0ff wrote:
    I did mention before "interchangeable pens" Pic curtesy of Ed Maggiani -{
    Okay, cheers - you said 'interchangeable barrels', so I thought you were talking strictly the barrel, not the lid. The lids themselves, hadn't been mentioned in this thread yet. Cool pics -{
    Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
  • parfaitelumiereparfaitelumiere Posts: 153MI6 Agent
    edited January 2020
    First picture is interesting because we can see the side by side of the 3 pens front, I wanted to make similar design on my pen gap front.
    However I don't see these pens, from bottom up scene street.

    static_0_35_28.png

    the inner rim looks thinner and not raising like previous screenshot


    firable_4.png

    there is extra tubing inside, smaller caliber and thicker wall.

    Also visible here, I think it's the dinner end scene, not sure, because it's the shooting pen version.

    firable_3.png

    All this is so interesting.
    Do you know when this picture was taken?

    static_3.png

    The cigarette box is obviously different, but as the book is mentionning a damaged gun shortly after it was made, maybe it would be the same gun, but earlier.
    The quite rough detail on the cigarette box during assembly scene made me thinkthe damage was on axis of box, and the golden area I see on other scenes but not on this picture could be a way to confirm this.
    This picture is showing the same gun:


    static_1.png

    no hole on lighter barrel no polished gold on cigarette case top, unlike here, glossy area on top of the box, and looks like a hole in barrel


    static_1_belt.png
  • parfaitelumiereparfaitelumiere Posts: 153MI6 Agent
    new keyhole design, but I think I will finally leave it blank with no molectric 88 engraving.


    Capture_d_cran_2018-09-09_09.22.15.png
  • ppw3o6rppw3o6r Great BritainPosts: 2,268MI6 Agent
    Great research and great images Parfaitelumiere. Here is an image you will not have seen before. This was created from a 3D scan of the Golden Gun (making it the most accurate representation) which resides in the EON Archive which will feature in a future book -{

    fullsizeoutput_5a9.jpg
  • danjaq_0ffdanjaq_0ff The SwampsPosts: 7,283MI6 Agent
    ppw3o6r wrote:
    Great research and great images Parfaitelumiere. Here is an image you will not have seen before. This was created from a 3D scan of the Golden Gun (making it the most accurate representation) which resides in the EON Archive which will feature in a future book -{

    fullsizeoutput_5a9.jpg

    Apart from the pen being totally wrong, id agree Donk :007)
  • danjaq_0ffdanjaq_0ff The SwampsPosts: 7,283MI6 Agent
    As we are showing Golden Guns :D


    007-_GG_Prop_Collection_10.jpg

    007-_GG_Prop_Collection_11.jpg
  • danjaq_0ffdanjaq_0ff The SwampsPosts: 7,283MI6 Agent
    On one of the documentaries Peter Lamont said that they had sy spray a dulling substance on to the gun while filming some of the shots as it was too shiny.

    Myself and Ed only ever say 3 pens in the archive, but there could have been more in the past.

    The picture you ask about is a publicity still taken after filming, Im sure its not even CL holding the gun.
  • parfaitelumiereparfaitelumiere Posts: 153MI6 Agent
    edited September 2018
    so the previous created from 3D scan copy on black background is the one on top on the 5 guns pictures right?
    It has a strong FE look IMO
    I would be happy to see the real 3D scan.

    Here is a study drawing I made some years ago, mostly based from the well documented gun, visible on exhibition.
    Drawing this, on thegimp was a horrible trial, but I already started to think about a way to mix the gun, and real items, pen, box etc, I made a first pen design with longer removable end, and was planning to make a fake piston inside pen with narrow nib block, removable from the back, but I admit I still don't know how I will make the pen.
    The main issue with the pen, is to keep it accurate to real pen, it has to get a 65mm long cap and a 75mm long body, but to keep it accurate to the gun, it has to have a visible 45mm long body area.
    What is interesting is when you put the cap on end of the waterman pen, it leaves exactly a 45mm visible body, I think it's the main reason why the design on gun has a 45mm body, and the cap is a bit larger, I think they designed following the waterman with cap on body end.
    Wht is strange is during assembly in movie, the design is functionnal, but totally wrong, compared to a real waterman, but I think this is because of technical issues, it's very hard to get something realistic, and functionnal, so they prefered to keep the functionnal aspect, I remember I have read actor said it was horrible to make assembly he had to train.
    What I don't like with my narrow pen inside the golden pen is the nib design, now I have some real watermn, I think I can't make such a design using a real waterman concorde nib, I would need a lathe here in my house to make it and I don't have it, so I think I will make the thread on nib side, removable nib block and switch the cap to the end of the body, probably with a hidden screw or so, still don't know, I was even thinking about a moving barrel to simulate compensated barrel and using it for the cap assembly, but it makes a hard work for printing, adding material to get the right printing thickness and sanding down once I get it.
    Also, the barrel would have to be machined on a lathe or so.



    mod_le_assemblage.jpg

    stylo.png
  • danjaq_0ffdanjaq_0ff The SwampsPosts: 7,283MI6 Agent
    Im all for keeping things as we see on screen, but that is me.

    Nice drawings BTW -{
  • parfaitelumiereparfaitelumiere Posts: 153MI6 Agent
    thanks,

    It's almost as bothering as doing 3d design, however 3D is better, because you send the file to printer or machinist, and it can be done...
    here is the box previous (V 3 ou 4) ad last version.
    for previous I used 2 round cylinders and 2 parabolic sections for the body, and a revolution double parabolic section and 2 spheres for the ends.
    Then I saw it was possible to curve the revolution piece, to flatten on one side, it just needs to cut 2 large round on the main body.
    So I curved the revolution piece, made flattened spheres as corners, for more rounded corners, but flatter ends, and I also flzttened the cylinders on main body.
    The kind of ring on first drawing is for printing casting purposes, it will be removed once in my hand.



    Capture_d_cran_2018-09-09_11.22.36.png


    here are the box profile changes, very first box (pictured 3D print from plastic) was 107x 14mm, with 12mm rounded ends, the medium design was 107x15mm with 13 mm cylinder, then, 107x15 with 12mm cylinders(on left), and finally 107x 15 with 12,4 x 15mm ovalized cylinders, (on right)


    Capture_d_cran_2018-09-09_11.22.18.png
  • ggl007ggl007 SpainPosts: 388MI6 Agent
    I'm following this thread and it's great. Thanks for all the info.

    I'd like to share my own golden gun. I know it's not perfect but I assure you it was cheap and... well, I love it! B-) :D

    Ej1ogrt.jpg

    Zx8gEhi.jpg

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    fnM8QSe.jpg
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Congratulations, looks great -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Quentin QuigleyQuentin Quigley Terminal One, Hamburg AirportPosts: 1,146MI6 Agent
    Love it, ggl! That's probably the nicest print I've seen of the gun. -{ Gives me a bit more confidence that mine will turn out decent.
    Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
  • ggl007ggl007 SpainPosts: 388MI6 Agent
    Thanks! If you need more photos of it for your project, just ask.
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    personally i prefer the matt finish from the shiny version.

    looks awesome -{
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
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  • parfaitelumiereparfaitelumiere Posts: 153MI6 Agent
    edited September 2018
    Here is my lighter 3D model, outer design is finished for now, I think there won't be more changes, except of course the diamond cut finish, made by hand.
    Capture_d_cran_2018-09-16_11.58.56.png
    The inner design is not finished yet, but for now the cap is openable, it has a popping barrel, sliding part, and pusshing button on top.
    It will get a smaller designed working lighter, maybe a oil lighter as the design is easy to build, or, if possible, a shortened real molectric inner, using quartz ignition and gaz tank.
    But for now I didn't find anyway to dissassemble a molectric 88 entirely.
    The axis design is closer to a dupont lighter than a molectric design, the dupont have solid axis made directly in the body, and maintained using a brass wire, then all is diamond cut, the molectric had separate full axis, welted on body and cap inner.
    The issue with molectric axis is it's weakness.


    Capture_d_cran_2018-09-16_13.29.04.png
  • parfaitelumiereparfaitelumiere Posts: 153MI6 Agent
    Today I finished the pen design, also designed the nib, nib block and nib block ring..
    It's not working, as there are no printing detailed enough for a working nib block, but I think I will modify it a bit more so it will be possible to add a empty waterman cartridge for the fun.
  • parfaitelumiereparfaitelumiere Posts: 153MI6 Agent
    After several design attempts I finally made this case display, I put the bullets under the lighter.
    Waiting for the 3d printed parts now.
    IMG_7908.jpg
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