NTTD is the first Bond movie my brother and I haven't even bothered buying on BluRay and we have no plan to. We saw it once, were thoroughly underwhelmed and neither of us had any desire to ever watch it again. We both immediately agreed there was no point or need to add it to the collection and that's saying something considering we've bought every other one - even outliers like NSNA or the 1967 Casino Royale - many multiple times in different formats.
Our reaction to NTTD was so bad it also had the effect of souring us on Craig's prior Bond movies as well (which we were never crazy about to begin with) and we ended up just chucking those as well. I never really thought much of Craig's interpretation of Bond but that lousy ending just made his entire run feel absolutely pointless. He was a humorless, miserable, joyless, distrustful sod at the start who screwed up more than he succeeded over the course of his films and he died pretty much the same way.
Santa brought my bluRay copy of NTTD on Christmas morning.
I've watched it once, which equals the amount of times I saw it in the cinema. Its now stored under my stairs.
In context I've seen every Bond film from the Goldfinger/Thunderball double bill from 1966ish 20 plus times in the cinema.
I even went to see other films in the early 70's to see the Diamonds Are forever/Live And Let Die milk adverts.
I'm sorry but it's just how I feel.
I also saw NTTD 8 times in the cinema! I only stopped because the run ended. Someone said to me ' because you wore it out.'
So far I've watched it once at home. I would happily have taken it into double figures at the cinema.
Wow--that's going way back in time. I'm flattered you remember! That said, I remember griping that EVERYONE in TMWTGG is cranky, including (and especially) Bond. In NTTD I'd say Bond and M are the most cranky--with each other--and for obvious reasons.
It's interesting how much harder fans are taking the ending of this film as opposed to the endings of CASINO ROYALE or SKYFALL, which are arguably more tragic than Bond's sacrifice. Those films had exciting setpieces and flashes of fun and humor, but I'd put the Matera chase, the Cuba sequence and the Norway pursuit up against anything in SKYFALL or SPECTRE in terms of exciting/engaging sequences.
I love 95% of NTTD. The last 5% however sours it completely. It's been difficult to rewatch with any amount of enjoyment, which is a first occurrence for me with this franchise.
I could have written the same thing, and I hate it that because of that last 5% I don't want watch the rest (I've not even got the DVD)
There are some threads that stick in the memory - another one you did @Hardyboy was an interesting take on how close Thunderball and Never Say Never Again were to Ian Fleming - the latter getting bonus points for including Bond's Bentley, unlike Thunderball.
Talking of going back, those milk adverts for DAF and LALD - the latter one is on YouTube but oddly I was referring to the trailer for Moonraker on the Talking Pictures TV Twitter feed - it featured milk cascading into a glass beaker to the sound of the Bond theme, and highlights of the movie such as Bond getting knocked out of the plane and also into the reptile pool - but the MR is not on YouTube currently it seems. I didn't know there was one for DAF, @UnderwaterBattle007
Anyway, as the ending alone is what besmirches NTTD for many, could another version do the rounds? What would be the best time to end the film if we don't want to end the way it does?
and thats the thing, we know they filmed three different endings, one of which I gather showed him crawling out of the rubble then being offered a knighthood in the final scene, Not sure what the third would have been, but theyre not on the dvd, or someone wouldve found them by now! is EON just going to keep them locked up in the vault after going to the trouble to film them?
That would be so much better
Well, I heard about those but I kind of meant, if fans were to do their own edit, is there a point where the movie just might end and it might be okay? Just kidding around really, but like some say Spectre should have ended with Blofeld's lair blowing up.
actually, I'm not sure that was filmed.
I got the notion from a very long interview posted by special agent matt_u at our rival forum, I cant tell where he found this so I'll just post a link to the page , its the 16th post with the Spoiler tag. Anybody else know the source of that interview?
Gregg Wilson This is the first time we have had a fake script to keep elements of the story secret: Nomi is referred to as “001” instead of 007; references to Mathilde were removed; and after the missiles hit at the end Bond climbs out of the rubble, recovers, and then the final scene was written as Bond and Madeleine finding out that he had been knighted “Sir James Bond”.
so that was a fake script for disinformation purposes, not necessarily an ending that was filmed. But I believe it was our own agent @Asp9mm who first told us about the three filmed endings, so what else would those be? deaths by other means? one with a random bullet and one with a bad oyster?
sorry @Napoleon Plural , I know what you're trying to say. I just wanted to properly cite my claim before rumours start, and it looks like I did get it wrong.
my answer to your question is, I actually have no problem with the ending: if he's going to go (and he's gotta go one day) it might as well be in an exploding headquarters at the end of an adventure, because at least we finally get an exploding headquarters at the end of an adventure in a CraigBond film. (and I know thats not the answer you want either, but I'm sure I'm the only one who's going to say that)
My understanding is that there was always one one and only one ending filmed: the one we saw. The crawling out of the rubble and being knighted nonsense was, as stated, a ploy to avoid spoilers for as long as possible.
Bond dying at the end was set in stone from the start, the only question mark was how he would die. A lot of the alternate stuff mentioned comes from this interview in Variety:
The random bullet was an idea Fukunaga mentioned that never got used because ultimately it was too ... random? He also mentioned Bond getting blown up in a rocket.
The bad oyster was Craig's attempt at a joke from the interview. That fact that some people took him seriously speaks volumes about his prospects of becoming a stand up comic now that he's jumped off the Bond gravy train.
Personally I would have loved a scene where Pierce Brosnan, Timothy Dalton, a CG de-aged George Lazenby and CG versions of Connery and Moore show up at the end, beat the living crap out of him, crack a bottle of Dom Perignon and make a toast to James Bond.
oi! I know that! I was the one who previously linked to that Variety interview. I'm just riffing off their joke suggestions.
here is where @Asp9mm tells us about the three filmed endings. and also here. I don't know how he would know these things, but he usually seems to know something the rest of us don't.
It does seem wastefully expensive to film two alternate endings then hide them away, but we know this whole film was much too expensive so maybe that was one of the reasons they're still struggling to make their money back.
@TonyDP youre a comic book fan. did you see the MAD magazine parody SpyFail , which is pretty much as you describe?
There were definitely three endings actually filmed - in camera and not just scripted. That comes from a few sources, one of which was there. It doesn’t mean a whole sequence had to be filmed, just dialogue and/or Bond walking/diving away from the island, or surfacing from the sea for example. I’m not saying those actually are what was filmed. But if you look at that scene, it’s very minimal, no extras, no large shot set ups etc. It’s just Bond standing and talking,, he doesn’t even move around much.
All the other stuff like the blasts etc was post production CGI There’s nothing going on at all on set in that scene,. Just inserted shots of Madeleine talking back to him. So therefore only required an absolute minimal amount of people being present on scene. So if they filmed three dialogue sets with Bond attempting to escape the blasts, it would keep the ending even more a secret, even from those present.
The scenes where they toast Bonds health is the same. But an enclosed set, minimal actors on set and a skeleton crew Doesn’t take much to film an alternate take with a Bond and M at the same time Or even keeping that scene with flashbacks of Bond surfacing from the sea, post missiles etc Just enough to keep all those involved on set unsure as to how it really will end. If they filmed him jumping into the sea, then they’d assume he would survive in the final cut. It’s just enough.
It’s standard with many cliffhanger TV programmes who film multiple entire scenes with multiple actors and effects. And Bond films drop expensively filmed scenes all the time anyway, even after being completed with post production CGI and effects. So a couple of simple scenes extra with no effects is a simple and inexpensive thing for a Bond production to do.
I'm glad we didn't get this ending. There are several good ways the ending could've been changed to let Bond survive, but this one doesn't work. I can imagine the post-credit extra: Moneypenny walks up to Bond after he gets his knighthood and whispers in his ear: - By the way, Bond. Madeleine and Matilde died last night from the nanobot virus. Seems you weren't carefull enough.
thanks for expanding @Asp9mm that all makes sense, especially the limited number of people who would have needed be present for the actual missiles landing scene. Still, there were two more short scenes with principal actors commemorating the dead hero, so those actors at least also had to know.
re the knighthood...
that could be from Fleming's the Man with the Golden Gun! in the last chapter, Goodnight reads a telegram from M while Bond is in his hospital bed, containing the offer of K.C.M.G. its a long passage so I wont quote it, but he turns it down because he cannot imagine life as a public hero, being asked to cut ribbons and give speeches to old ladies clubs and such.
if they had included such a scene it would be one more bit of Fleming on top of the OHMSS and YOLT references, but I think the ending we got was more dramatic. But it'd be cool if they had filmed it, so there'd be one more minor bit of Fleming adaptation even if it was an outtake.
Another reason for not quoting it directly is that it's written in telegram speak, which would need an explanation for today's readers.
@caractacus potts, I've never really been into MAD Magazine but that definitely was right up my alley 😁🍸️
After this last one, they really should have done a followup.
re Craig's suggestion of "bad oyster" as the cause of Bond's death... that could almost set up further adaptation of You Only Live Twice content in this new film! here's how I see it:
There is a weather balloon on top of Safin's island, and Bond catches hold just as the missiles hit, and is swept away by the force of the blast.
But he is concussed, and washes ashore on the beach of a neighbouring island, conveniently populated by topless pearl divers. One of these topless pearl divers is even a former smalltime Hollywood starlet, some babe, and she takes an interest in this strange white man who cannot remember his own name. Wow! look what she's found, can she keep him? Lets call her Kissy Suzuki since that name was never used before in an EON film.
But the brain damage doesn't just effect Bond's memory, its also somehow obliterated his biologic impulse to make love to a lady. So what does Kissy do to help heal the poor traumatised man? She feeds him aphrodisiacs.
So far this is literally from Fleming. only thing is, instead of feeding him a potion made from toad sweat, Kissy feeds him lots and lots and lots of oysters, which are supposed to have aphrodisiac qualities.
"but I'm getting full" Bond says. "no Bondo-san, have even more" Kissy says. "urp, I'm so full, couldn't eat another bite" "no Bondo-san, just one more, please, you'll like it I swear".
Then the oysters finally start to work and Bond suddenly feels a primal urge in his loins, and starts to look at his topless ladyfriend differently, and is just about to move in close and give the love-starved Kissy what she's been longing for. When all of a sudden he swallows... the bad oyster!!!
Bond gets violently sick (in the interests of good taste I shall simply refer you to the Mr Creosote sequence of Meaning of Life, and I think we need a mixture of condensed minestrone soup and tapioca pudding for special effects), then after making a big mess all over the futon and paper walls, turns green and goes cross-eyed and ... drops dead in Kissy's arms.
In one slick move the camera swings to a birds eye view and zooms out to show Kissy clutching the dead Bond to her breast (like the last shot of the first act of Gone with the Wind except with tapioca pudding special effects splattered everywhere), and Kissy clenches her fist and faces the camera with tears streaming down her cheeks, and shouts in sexual frustration some variation of ... "missed it by that much!"
would that have been a better death scene? it does include a couple chapters of authentic Fleming, except for that oyster which was Craig's brilliant idea!
FINALLY saw this last night and finally returned to the forum.
I don't care too much about the ending and the choice to kill him off. It didn't move me and it didn't startle me. I just found this as a creative way to end an actor's tenure as Bond. They've not done it before, and I don't mind it. But I believe I only don't mind it because it nicely completes Craig's story arc. The other thing is I suspect that they just expect us to forget about it. Fine, I can easily watch Octopussy and happily forget that Craig's Bond even exists anyway.
There are two reasons why I think I like the completion of the story arc. It's nice and neat as a narrative structure. It's also finally and hopefully the end of the Vesper stuff, the mummy issues, the over-involved use of M and co from MI6 and EON's complicated obsession post-CR with replicating elements from more popular action films.
My biggest issue with NTTD was after the PTS until the Land Rover Defender promotion sequence in the forest I kind of tuned out and lost interest in what was going on. While it was nice to see Craig having fun (and I could argue this is his best performance, albeit uneven)...I felt we were lacking what feels like a Bond film and to that point - I found parts of the film quite boring. I want some more fun.
This was much better than Spectre, but continues my dislike of the melodramatic Craig tenure. Hopefully when Bond returns we have a straight mission and a return to basics.
PS best joke in the film: computer voice saying "Hacking Blofeld's eyeball"
Nice to have you back. It's also nice with more people who didn't get a dangerously high blood pressure from watching NTTD. 😀
Thanks! Quite a few of my friends and family know that I am a James Bond freak so dropped quite a few hints (not spoilers) that this film was a bit decisive and I honestly went in with pretty low expectations.
What happened to @Lady Rose and her review? I recall she would wait to see it on DVD rather than the cinema, but it's been out for over a month now.
she doesnt seem to have posted since October, hope she's alright
come back @Lady Rose we need you!
No Time To Die is made all the better by the way it breaks tradition, upends expected tropes, and carves a new path forward for the franchise. This film takes risks and innovates, but it does so with a keen sense of respect and acknowledgment for every film before it that helped make the franchise what it is today. Goldfinger exists, The Spy Who Loved Me exists, and I am eternally grateful that No Time To Die exists. We don’t need each film to go through the motions and try to recreate the glory days. We should celebrate the franchise’s continued ability to surprise us and provide new outliers. We should embrace a willingness to shake things up.
I have just finished watching NTTD for the first time.
I am not one for writing long descriptions of films so please accept this as my review.
It was worth the wait.
I loved every minute of it.
thats a fine review, and now youre free to get tangled up in all our debates
you'll notice now that theres been a lot of debating about what we all saw
I liked it too, except for the few bits I didnt. I thought it was the most satisfying since Craig's first, and the one bit people really like to argue about I thought was pretty good (I always like when the villains headquarters explodes at the end), though Bond shouldve got to make a speech before he left us.