It's funny how one's elderly parents can become quite judgemental about Bond actors showing their age. Mum felt Sean Connery was past it in Never Say Never Again (she was roughly the same age herself) and when a trailer for Craig's Quantum of Solace came along and showed his face, she went 'Oh dear!' She was in her late 70s then.
I have only see NTTD once. Honestly, I struggle to face it again, it seems to have no real charm, it's an unhappy Bond. I'd watch it on 4K on a nice new TV as an event, but I still wouldn't want to actually fork out again to see it. Maybe I could arrange for a fan on this site to post me it and I can post it back, at a later date?
Absolutely agree. The end meant I’d not happy to watch again. Goes against everything written about Bond
I bought the blu ray on release day. I’ve watched the film once and the Jamaica scenes once after that. I’ve not had a burning desire to trouble the blu ray player since.
I'm with ichaice. After I bought the film I've only watched it through once, which is unheard of for me with Bond movies.
Me too. I can’t imagine me watching the Safin Island scenes again.
The ending of it means I’m not keen to watch it again, which is a pity as other parts of the movie are great
Moderator by name, moderate in nature 🤣
I saw NTTD 8 times in the cinema…it would have been more but I was waiting for friends to find time 👀🤣
No, this is not one of my favourite Bond movies and that's putting it mildly. I only watched it twice in the cinema and once at home. This is unprecedented for me with a Bond movie. It would seem that... I don't like this one!
(a) I've never liked Craig as Bond. I acknowledge that he's a good actor, and have been waiting for me to warm to him like I did with Roger Moore (I didn't like his casting at first but grew to love him over the course of his films) but it didn't happen. Doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed his movies, esp CR06 and SF.
(b) This film is weakly plotted (I referred earlier to "gimmicks") and doesn't deliver what I have come to expect from a Bond film.
(c) The ending.
Agreed. Twice in the cinema and once at home for me too. I had planned 6 to 8 times in the cinema and only went twice as had it booked
(d) The music. Recycling earlier themes doesn't make it a good score.
Edit: It makes it rely on emotional resonances achieved by earlier better films.
One trivial point relatively speaking is... it's long. So if you don't like it, it's not like a quick one to sit through. Mind you, same could be said of QoS which Is short but seems like a long film. In some ways, NTTD could be a sequel to that.
@Hardyboy likes this film so I shouldn't quote him in this way but the film reminds me of his thread about TMWTGG, 'Cranky, oh so cranky!' where he explained how so many in the cast - M, Moneypenny and so on - were out of sorts with Bond. Naturally they all seem like a bunch of raving optimists on a stash of MDMAs compared to how Bond gets treated in this film. The only one happy to see Bond is that weird Ash bloke who smiles like a nutter in a slasher movie.
This is all very well if you can buy into the plot but if you can't...
NTTD is the first Bond movie my brother and I haven't even bothered buying on BluRay and we have no plan to. We saw it once, were thoroughly underwhelmed and neither of us had any desire to ever watch it again. We both immediately agreed there was no point or need to add it to the collection and that's saying something considering we've bought every other one - even outliers like NSNA or the 1967 Casino Royale - many multiple times in different formats.
Our reaction to NTTD was so bad it also had the effect of souring us on Craig's prior Bond movies as well (which we were never crazy about to begin with) and we ended up just chucking those as well. I never really thought much of Craig's interpretation of Bond but that lousy ending just made his entire run feel absolutely pointless. He was a humorless, miserable, joyless, distrustful sod at the start who screwed up more than he succeeded over the course of his films and he died pretty much the same way.
Santa brought my bluRay copy of NTTD on Christmas morning.
I've watched it once, which equals the amount of times I saw it in the cinema. Its now stored under my stairs.
In context I've seen every Bond film from the Goldfinger/Thunderball double bill from 1966ish 20 plus times in the cinema.
I even went to see other films in the early 70's to see the Diamonds Are forever/Live And Let Die milk adverts.
I'm sorry but it's just how I feel.
I also saw NTTD 8 times in the cinema! I only stopped because the run ended. Someone said to me ' because you wore it out.'
So far I've watched it once at home. I would happily have taken it into double figures at the cinema.
Wow--that's going way back in time. I'm flattered you remember! That said, I remember griping that EVERYONE in TMWTGG is cranky, including (and especially) Bond. In NTTD I'd say Bond and M are the most cranky--with each other--and for obvious reasons.
It's interesting how much harder fans are taking the ending of this film as opposed to the endings of CASINO ROYALE or SKYFALL, which are arguably more tragic than Bond's sacrifice. Those films had exciting setpieces and flashes of fun and humor, but I'd put the Matera chase, the Cuba sequence and the Norway pursuit up against anything in SKYFALL or SPECTRE in terms of exciting/engaging sequences.
I love 95% of NTTD. The last 5% however sours it completely. It's been difficult to rewatch with any amount of enjoyment, which is a first occurrence for me with this franchise.
I could have written the same thing, and I hate it that because of that last 5% I don't want watch the rest (I've not even got the DVD)
There are some threads that stick in the memory - another one you did @Hardyboy was an interesting take on how close Thunderball and Never Say Never Again were to Ian Fleming - the latter getting bonus points for including Bond's Bentley, unlike Thunderball.
Talking of going back, those milk adverts for DAF and LALD - the latter one is on YouTube but oddly I was referring to the trailer for Moonraker on the Talking Pictures TV Twitter feed - it featured milk cascading into a glass beaker to the sound of the Bond theme, and highlights of the movie such as Bond getting knocked out of the plane and also into the reptile pool - but the MR is not on YouTube currently it seems. I didn't know there was one for DAF, @UnderwaterBattle007
Anyway, as the ending alone is what besmirches NTTD for many, could another version do the rounds? What would be the best time to end the film if we don't want to end the way it does?
and thats the thing, we know they filmed three different endings, one of which I gather showed him crawling out of the rubble then being offered a knighthood in the final scene, Not sure what the third would have been, but theyre not on the dvd, or someone wouldve found them by now! is EON just going to keep them locked up in the vault after going to the trouble to film them?
That would be so much better
Well, I heard about those but I kind of meant, if fans were to do their own edit, is there a point where the movie just might end and it might be okay? Just kidding around really, but like some say Spectre should have ended with Blofeld's lair blowing up.
actually, I'm not sure that was filmed.
I got the notion from a very long interview posted by special agent matt_u at our rival forum, I cant tell where he found this so I'll just post a link to the page , its the 16th post with the Spoiler tag. Anybody else know the source of that interview?
Gregg Wilson This is the first time we have had a fake script to keep elements of the story secret: Nomi is referred to as “001” instead of 007; references to Mathilde were removed; and after the missiles hit at the end Bond climbs out of the rubble, recovers, and then the final scene was written as Bond and Madeleine finding out that he had been knighted “Sir James Bond”.
so that was a fake script for disinformation purposes, not necessarily an ending that was filmed. But I believe it was our own agent @Asp9mm who first told us about the three filmed endings, so what else would those be? deaths by other means? one with a random bullet and one with a bad oyster?
sorry @Napoleon Plural , I know what you're trying to say. I just wanted to properly cite my claim before rumours start, and it looks like I did get it wrong.
my answer to your question is, I actually have no problem with the ending: if he's going to go (and he's gotta go one day) it might as well be in an exploding headquarters at the end of an adventure, because at least we finally get an exploding headquarters at the end of an adventure in a CraigBond film. (and I know thats not the answer you want either, but I'm sure I'm the only one who's going to say that)
My understanding is that there was always one one and only one ending filmed: the one we saw. The crawling out of the rubble and being knighted nonsense was, as stated, a ploy to avoid spoilers for as long as possible.
Bond dying at the end was set in stone from the start, the only question mark was how he would die. A lot of the alternate stuff mentioned comes from this interview in Variety:
The random bullet was an idea Fukunaga mentioned that never got used because ultimately it was too ... random? He also mentioned Bond getting blown up in a rocket.
The bad oyster was Craig's attempt at a joke from the interview. That fact that some people took him seriously speaks volumes about his prospects of becoming a stand up comic now that he's jumped off the Bond gravy train.
Personally I would have loved a scene where Pierce Brosnan, Timothy Dalton, a CG de-aged George Lazenby and CG versions of Connery and Moore show up at the end, beat the living crap out of him, crack a bottle of Dom Perignon and make a toast to James Bond.
oi! I know that! I was the one who previously linked to that Variety interview. I'm just riffing off their joke suggestions.
here is where @Asp9mm tells us about the three filmed endings. and also here. I don't know how he would know these things, but he usually seems to know something the rest of us don't.
It does seem wastefully expensive to film two alternate endings then hide them away, but we know this whole film was much too expensive so maybe that was one of the reasons they're still struggling to make their money back.
@TonyDP youre a comic book fan. did you see the MAD magazine parody SpyFail , which is pretty much as you describe?
There were definitely three endings actually filmed - in camera and not just scripted. That comes from a few sources, one of which was there. It doesn’t mean a whole sequence had to be filmed, just dialogue and/or Bond walking/diving away from the island, or surfacing from the sea for example. I’m not saying those actually are what was filmed. But if you look at that scene, it’s very minimal, no extras, no large shot set ups etc. It’s just Bond standing and talking,, he doesn’t even move around much.
All the other stuff like the blasts etc was post production CGI There’s nothing going on at all on set in that scene,. Just inserted shots of Madeleine talking back to him. So therefore only required an absolute minimal amount of people being present on scene. So if they filmed three dialogue sets with Bond attempting to escape the blasts, it would keep the ending even more a secret, even from those present.
The scenes where they toast Bonds health is the same. But an enclosed set, minimal actors on set and a skeleton crew Doesn’t take much to film an alternate take with a Bond and M at the same time Or even keeping that scene with flashbacks of Bond surfacing from the sea, post missiles etc Just enough to keep all those involved on set unsure as to how it really will end. If they filmed him jumping into the sea, then they’d assume he would survive in the final cut. It’s just enough.
It’s standard with many cliffhanger TV programmes who film multiple entire scenes with multiple actors and effects. And Bond films drop expensively filmed scenes all the time anyway, even after being completed with post production CGI and effects. So a couple of simple scenes extra with no effects is a simple and inexpensive thing for a Bond production to do.
I'm glad we didn't get this ending. There are several good ways the ending could've been changed to let Bond survive, but this one doesn't work. I can imagine the post-credit extra: Moneypenny walks up to Bond after he gets his knighthood and whispers in his ear: - By the way, Bond. Madeleine and Matilde died last night from the nanobot virus. Seems you weren't carefull enough.