Which is the most underrated, and which is the most overrated Bond film in your view?

sirsosirso Posts: 146MI6 Agent

Which is the most underrated, and which is the most overrated Bond film in your view?  

For me the underrated one is The Living Daylights, and the overrated one is Skyfall.

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Comments

  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,978MI6 Agent

    I'd say Thunderball is the most overrated one. Among people who aren't big Bond fans I think OHMSS is the most underrated. I'm not sure what movie is underrated among us hard-core fans.

  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,143MI6 Agent
    edited April 26

    Overrated: GOLDFINGER

    • I get why this one is definitive for a lot of people. It's where the formula and tone gets set and perfected. It also has many truly iconic moments and characters in it. Indeed, the first two acts are pretty fantastic in general. Everything falls apart in the third act, though. Bond himself is completely secondary to the goings on (he's pretty much just along for the ride) and the entire finale hinges upon you believing some incredibly shaky plot devices (like the entire army garrison falling flat on their butts, pretending to be asleep). It all just loses me.

    Underrated: MOONRAKER

    • I get why a lot of people hate this one. I used to be dismissive of it as well. The thing is, the film is a masterclass in terms of showing how to slowly shift tone and accelerate the madness until you are allowed to embrace the absurdity. It has one really bad misstep in it (the whole gondola sequence...it's not needed for the plot and goes too far in the absurdity) but everything else is actually consistent. It also features one of the absolute best Bond ladies (Dr. Goodhead) who is, for once, essential to the third act and holds her own with Bond in winning the day.
    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • sirsosirso Posts: 146MI6 Agent
    edited April 26

    Yes, I think Goldfinger is overrated too. After the first 30 minutes or so, it is just Bond being held by Goldfinger in his camp, and then Bond has a fight with Oddjob.

    The best bit is the pre-credit sequence.

    I liked Moonraker until the gun/laser fight in space, which was a bit less boring then the underwater fight in Thunderball.

    It had one of the best Bond songs in the series.

  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,143MI6 Agent

    I completely agree that 'Moonraker' the song is really quite underrated. I know that Shirley is kinda meh on it but honestly, her phrasing and control of the song is really quite marvelous.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • MI6_HeadquartersMI6_Headquarters Posts: 37MI6 Agent
    edited April 27

    The most underrated might be OHMSS many still don't like it, I loved it, it has one of my favorite actresses in Diana Rigg, and it has beautiful cinematography, great music, and pretty good story, and the romance at least was developed, we got to see Bond really earning Tracy's trust, and we also see how their romance progressed. I loved it, it's my favorite Bond Film, it's still divisive up to this day.

    Overrated? I'll go with Casino Royale, Bond fans, critics all of them hailed this film as sacred that it's always been put at the top of every lists, but for me, I've watched it and I don't get it, it didn't felt very 'Bondian', it's like I'm just watching a good 2000s action movie, not a Bond film, it lacked the Bond atmosphere, and the romance between Bond and Vesper was rushed/quick like it happen in just one week, sure the chemistry was great but it's not developed in my opinion. And I've read the novel and it's great, and now I prefer the novel, the novel felt like a 50's noir spy drama.

    Ranking of Ian Fleming Novels/Books

    1. Moonraker 2. Casino Royale 3. From Russia With Love 4. Thunderball 5. You Only Live Twice 6. Dr. No 7. Diamonds Are Forever 8. Goldfinger 9. Live And Let Die 10. On Her Majesty's Secret Service 11. The Spy Who Loved Me 12. The Man With The Golden Gun

    Ranking the Short Stories:

    1. The Living Daylights 2. From A View To A Kill 3. For Your Eyes Only 4. The Hildebrand Rarity 5. Risico 6. Quantum Of Solace 7. Octopussy

  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 2,629MI6 Agent

    In my humble opinion;

    Most overrated is GoldenEye.

    Of course I enjoy it and like every film in the series it has some great scenes and brought Bond back with a bang in the 90's. However, there are things I'm really not keen on that garner praise from many viewers - the tank chase for one. Onatopp literally getting off through killing, is OTT. Production looks pretty cheap at times. Trevelyan's motivation is weak and questionable and Sean Bean isn't as menacing as he was in Patriot Games. I think most of us agree, the soundtrack is weak, though the title track is a decent effort.

    Most underrated is Quantum of Solace

    Derided by many casual viewers and fans for its poor script, lack of action, villain and henchman, not enough Bondian tropes. But I like it's shorter length, its realism, Bond's image and physique. The pre-title sequence is great. Tosca scenes, so underrated. DC's Bond is badass at his best. Siena scenes, fight with Mr Slate, meeting Mathis again, six vespers on the plane, death of Mathis, all very good. Dominic Greene might not be the most memorable villain, but he is quietly evil and a more realistic threat. Don't get me wrong, I love my fantastical Bond as much as the next man/woman, but occasionally the series needs this type of film, like Licence To Kill.

    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 2,629MI6 Agent

    Love Moonraker too @Gymkata Agree on the Gondola scene and the transition/editing from Bond falling out of the ambulance to cowboy on horseback always grates with me.. But the film is just fantastical Bond. The ladies are stunningly beautiful, give good performances and are key to the story. Drax is one of the best Bond villain's in the entire series and of course you have Jaws!

    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,143MI6 Agent

    It can't be overstated just how critical Michael Lonsdale's performance of Drax is to making MOONRAKER work. He plays it all absolutely straight with a calm, almost bored, detachment that runs completely counter to the escalating madness around him. He anchors the film and keeps the villain legitimate.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,394MI6 Agent
    edited April 27

    @MI6_Headquarters said:

    Overrated? I'll go with Casino Royale, Bond fans, critics all of them hailed this film as sacred that it's always been put at the top of every lists, but for me, I've watched it and I don't get it, it didn't felt very 'Bondian', it's like I'm just watching a good 2000s action movie, not a Bond film

    welcome new agent! come tell us all about your Secret Origin, Unseen Missions and Character Revealing BackStory in the Welcome & Comings & Goings thread

    re Casino Royale, I think they meant to reinvent the series completely, so it was deliberately as unlike as formula BondFilm as they could manage and the start of an AllNew AllDifferent CraigBond series. Its the best of those five and succeeds in its goal, but does not fit in with the first twenty and we probably shouldnt expect it to. As much as i appreciate it, it frustrates me theres now three adaptations of Casino Royale and none of them fit in with the classic series. Connery's opening scene in Dr No is as close as they got.

    one of my favorite actresses in Diana Rigg

    we've got an Avengers thread you might be interested in, if youre a Rigg fan I'd love to see your input

  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,394MI6 Agent

    the Red Kind said:

    GoldenEye, there are things I'm really not keen on that garner praise from many viewers - the tank chase for one.

    oh that tank chase! it goes on for so long and is so irritating! Bond destroys historic architecture and public artwork, and worst of all he is casually machine gunning the local police doing their jobs, not villain's minions! imagine if he had just machine gunned Sherriff Pepper, its the same thing

  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 2,629MI6 Agent

    Yep. And you've just reminded me, the scene at Severnaya is also way too long.

    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • CoolHandBondCoolHandBond Mactan IslandPosts: 4,756MI6 Agent

    Overrated - GE - I have to agree with you guys above, I have never understood the love that this movie gets on this site as it’s a very weak entry.

    Underrated - LTK - A classic Bond entry, and if Bond is going to do angst, this is how it should be.

    Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
  • sirsosirso Posts: 146MI6 Agent


    Yes, he is one of the best villains in the films.

  • Bond fan from OzBond fan from Oz Posts: 81MI6 Agent

    Overrated: Goldfinger.

    Underrated: Octopussy. It's got exotic locales, a great John Barry score, an interesting gallery of villains, and Roger Moore in fine form.

  • OrnithologistOrnithologist BerlinPosts: 555MI6 Agent

    And it was filmed in Berlin! (or is that an "exotic" locale?) 😃

    "I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
    "- That is something to be afraid of."
  • CajunCajun Posts: 434MI6 Agent

    I feel compelled to nominate QoS only because it gets bagged on so much for reasons I can't understand.

    I edit, therefore I am.
  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 2,629MI6 Agent

    Thanks @Cajun Good to have a fellow QoS lover around here🍸️🍸️🍸️🍸️🍸️🍸️

    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • The Domino EffectThe Domino Effect Posts: 3,545MI6 Agent

    Overrated: Spectre - I know it rarely makes a top five list any way, but it's just very long, heavy, and rather plodding.

    Underrated: QoS - Like a fine wine, it gets better with each viewing. Not a classic, but a lot better than I thought the first time I watched it!

  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 2,629MI6 Agent

    I'm thinking of starting the QoS Appreciation Society!!😁

    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • CajunCajun Posts: 434MI6 Agent
    edited May 17

    Thanks brutha! 🤙

    I forgot to mention underrated of course.

    And overrated? Maybe the two Dalton installments since people seem to go out of their way to prop them up. They just felt like made-for-TV 80's action flicks to me. But hey, we got one last Rolex! 🏆️

    I edit, therefore I am.
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,197MI6 Agent
    edited May 17

    It all comes down to personal taste but for me...

    Overrated: Casino Royale - I've never really gotten the appeal of this movie. Bond himself comes across as a serial screw-up and his laundry list of failures seems to go on forever. I was also not a fan of robbing the character of his history and stripping away all of Bond's defining traits - Craig is really little more than a humorless blunt instrument without an iota of wit, charm or sophistication (he can't even pick out his own tux) ; that kind of deconstruction always turns me off and this movie positively wallowed in it.

    Underrated: Moonraker - Decried by many as one of those "silly Bond movies", the movie does have a lot of comic bits but it's also a visual spectacle with amazing practical sets, epic set pieces and incredible stunt work. It's the kind of movie that would probably be too expensive to try to make today.

  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 2,060MI6 Agent

    I've thought a long time about this, and I guess it really depends on whose ratings you are paying attention to. So take April's Radio Times article which lists each of the 25 movies.

    Looking at that and despite my love of DAF, I'd say Quantum of Solace at no.24 is underrated and Licence to Kill at no.8 is overrated.

    But then I'd also say DAF at 25 is unfair while Skyfall at 7 and Goldeneye at 5 remain open to debate. Interesting to see the compiler put both Dalton's in the top ten.

    Every James Bond movie ranked from worst to best | Radio Times

  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,143MI6 Agent

    Both Dalton's in the top ten? I won't even bother watching it then.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • OrnithologistOrnithologist BerlinPosts: 555MI6 Agent

    Count me in! Never would've thought so in 2008 but it's Craigs 2nd best. No nonsense, good action, great soundtrack, beautiful locations and of course the iconic wardrobe choices. The only things I still dislike today are the shaky camera in the beginning and the confusing Mathis storyline (He himself was great but why did Bond have to forgive him if he was no traitor after all - and why throw him in a dumpster?).

    "I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
    "- That is something to be afraid of."
  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 2,629MI6 Agent

    Yes, @Ornithologist it's great for those reasons. TBH, I struggled with the shaky camera work at the start of the car chase too at first, but now I love it and it really draws one in to the thrilling drama and danger of the situation Bond finds himself in. The opening shot over the lake to the underpass with the music faintly coming in and the ever so slightest sound of the V12, is just brilliant.

    I don't think Bond is forgiving Mathis, the other way round. And he's forgiving himself and Vesper. I always find Mathis' death very moving and throwing him in the dumpster a hard hitting, realistic and very sad way to part.

    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,143MI6 Agent
    edited May 18

    QOS is the best dressed Craig era Bond movie. Period.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • CajunCajun Posts: 434MI6 Agent

    Add me as an Appreciation Society charter member.

    The QoS (AKA Casino Royale part deux) PTS is a masterpiece IMO and is my favorite opening AND car chase of the 25 films. Gritty, action-packed, and brutal. Yes, manic, as one would imagine a high-speed vehicular escape from light machine gun (LMG) - wielding assassins would be. The trunk reveal was brilliant.

    The movie is fantastic for all of the reasons already mentioned in this thread. I'll add that we get a good bit of Felix, the villains were actually believable, and Bond confronting Yusuf at the end to close the book on Vesper was satisfying. Rehashing Vesper in NTTD was just stale IMO after Bond's timeline with Madeleine. But I digress.

    Long live QoS.

    I edit, therefore I am.
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,619MI6 Agent

    I'm surprised in a way that my two are from the Craig era, because I feel that his tenure is over-rated. With that said,

    Most underrated is QoS. To me, it is very Fleming because of its organic elements. Bond enjoys the full resources and backing of the service only in the beginning and the rest of the movie shows Bond completing his "mission" on a shoestring. Even his tuxedo is borrowed from an employee's locker, touching on my personal joke in how Bond is in danger of treading on the ridiculous with the tuxedo wearing at risk of looking like a waiter (a visual gag Dalton first executes in LTK).

    Most overrated, is SF. For me, it's DC's Bond FINALLY arriving in Bond form in terms of the series formula...and it gets recognition and high praise for doing that?!?

    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,143MI6 Agent

    The only things keeping QOS from greatness are the pacing/editing and the unpolished script.

    Regarding the pacing and editing: I personally love the manic energy of the opening car chase/PTS but that editing simply does not work in most of the other scenes. The foot chase is particularly bad.

    The film is also edited to an inch of its life with a lot of the 'connective tissue plotting' removed to try and keep the movie going at a breakneck speed. A lot of films could stand an edit to shave off extraneous stuff...QOS is the rare film that feels like it needs about 15 more minutes of plotting to really gel.

    Regarding the script: it feels like a first draft where a lot of the key story beats are fleshed out but the connective tissue wasn't polished. A lot of the intermediate scenes feel like they were improvised on the day ('ok, we need to get from plot point A to plot point B in this sequence...make something happen') which gives the proceedings a nice realistic feel but also don't really satisfy in terms of narrative movement.

    But what IS there really works for me. In addition to being the best 'styled' of the Craig films, it also has some of the best acting of his run. Everyone is solid. While the script is lacking (thanks to the writer's strike), everyone seems to find things that aren't necessarily on the page to make their characters work and stand out. The film also looks great with some incredibly well done cinematography and some interesting shot compositions throughout. It's really just the script and the editing that keep the film from being top tier.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • MI6_HeadquartersMI6_Headquarters Posts: 37MI6 Agent

    If the Man With The Golden Gun was the unpolished novel of Fleming, too many potentials but left incomplete, then Quantum of Solace was the unpolished film of EON, too many potentials but left incomplete.


    The Man With The Golden Gun suffered from Fleming's death, had been completed with a different author (Kingsley Amis).


    Quantum of Solace suffered from the Writer's Strike, have been rewrote and completed by Craig himself.


    Quantum of Solace was EON's The Man With The Golden Gun (Novel)


    Quantum of Solace was viewed as one of the weakest films, The Man With The Golden Gun was also viewed as one of the weakest books, and both also has similar reasons: Unpolished and has so many potentials.


    One may wonder, had Fleming lived, how would he finished The Man With The Golden Gun, would it be better? Of course!


    Had the Writer's Strike didn't happened, how different would be Quantum of Solace, would it be better? Of course too!

    Ranking of Ian Fleming Novels/Books

    1. Moonraker 2. Casino Royale 3. From Russia With Love 4. Thunderball 5. You Only Live Twice 6. Dr. No 7. Diamonds Are Forever 8. Goldfinger 9. Live And Let Die 10. On Her Majesty's Secret Service 11. The Spy Who Loved Me 12. The Man With The Golden Gun

    Ranking the Short Stories:

    1. The Living Daylights 2. From A View To A Kill 3. For Your Eyes Only 4. The Hildebrand Rarity 5. Risico 6. Quantum Of Solace 7. Octopussy

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