Which is the most underrated, and which is the most overrated Bond film in your view?

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  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,394MI6 Agent
    edited May 19

    If the Man With The Golden Gun was the unpolished novel of Fleming, too many potentials but left incomplete, then Quantum of Solace was the unpolished film of EON, too many potentials but left incomplete.

    The Man With The Golden Gun suffered from Fleming's death, had been completed with a different author (Kingsley Amis).

    Quantum of Solace suffered from the Writer's Strike, have been rewrote and completed by Craig himself.


    interesting comparison @MI6_Headquarters

    last I recall, Amis said he did little other than fix some typos, and left Fleming's plot and prose as it was.

    he did review the book after publication, and gave some alternate ideas of how the story "should" have gone, but did not add these to the book when he had the chance. That review is around here someplace. @Revelator would have posted it, he's always sharing these rarities with us.

    I think if Fleming would have lived, he would have been in better health than he was and it would have been a completely different novel. All previous books he travelled to do research the year before, this time he was too sick to travel thus he set the plot once again in Jamaica. So the very setting probably would have been different had he been in better health.

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 33,456Chief of Staff

    SE Asia, perhaps. This:

    perhaps not. And definitely no slide whistle. Or Sheriff Pepper.

  • The Domino EffectThe Domino Effect Posts: 3,551MI6 Agent

    Thanks for that amazing photo, Barbel! I had no idea that they used five cars in that stunt. I'll have to watch more closely next time. 😎

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 33,456Chief of Staff

    You obviously missed Imaginary Conversations post 1998!

  • hoppimikehoppimike London, UKPosts: 54MI6 Agent

    Underrated... I'm going to say Die Another Day.

    I think the first half is really cool and although the latter half goes a bit too nuts, I just think it's a good fun movie that deserves an easier time! Besides back in the day when it first came out it really did create a bit of a buzz, as I remember! We were all mostly uninterested in TND and TWINE but when DAD came out suddenly it felt like the series had some new life again, even if it maybe went a bit too far at times as I say.

    Overrated... Skyfall. I actually dislike NTTD more but Skyfall gets more praise. I've never liked it particularly but I do prefer it to NTTD.

    Movies: The Spy Who Loved Me. Actor: Pierce Brosnan. Theme: You Only Live Twice. :D

  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 4,775MI6 Agent
    edited May 20

    I don't really like to say that any of them are overrated, because I like them all and rate them! 😊 And they're all somebody else's favourite too.

    Underrated, well I think there are a few with a bad rap, but it probably makes me saddest to see A View To A Kill dunked on. I've just always really loved the mood of this one, it's always been my sort of comfort Bond. I can see that it's not the strongest, but I love Roger in it, Pat Macnee is great, the villains are superb, the locations look sumptuous (especially France), and I really like that it's a silly film with a really effective 'this is all very serious' tone to it- exactly the balance I like in a Bond. It's my perfect Sunday afternoon 007 flick 😊

  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 2,636MI6 Agent
    edited May 20

    Agree with that.

    AVTAK may not be the best, and admittedly appears towards the bottom of my 25, but it's comfort Bond. Bank Holiday Monday Bond. Has a nice summer feel. Love the music. Christopher Walken is great and Roger is fun in all his Bond films.

    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,161MI6 Agent

    The only things that really sink AVTAK for me are:

    • Tanya Roberts and Patrick Bauchau are both uniformly terrible in the film. I've seen Bauchau be decent in other films so I'm not sure what was going on here.
    • The San Francisco fire chase scene with the incompetent cops. It's just terribly conceived and executed and it sinks the entire film by a complete star rating for me.

    There are other issues (Roger too old, for instance) but they can more or less by hand-waived for me. They aren't deal breakers.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 4,775MI6 Agent
    edited May 20

    Summery is a good description, yes. For some reason the scene that always sticks in the mind for me is the garden party at the chateau: I'd just like to be there- it looks lovely! 😁

    Gymkata said:

    Tanya Roberts and Patrick Bauchau are both uniformly terrible in the film. I've seen Bauchau be decent in other films so I'm not sure what was going on here.

    The San Francisco fire chase scene with the incompetent cops. It's just terribly conceived and executed and it sinks the entire film by a complete star rating for me.

    I think Bauchau is way worse than Roberts even, to be honest- I have no idea what's going on there! The bizarre bit where he meets 'St. John Smythe' at the gate for the first time and leaves a weird pause in his dialogue big enough to drive a Rolls Royce through... ?! But the rubbish bits are some of the things I love it most for; I find it all very endearing!

    And yes, the fire engine chase is pretty poor, but the scene I really don't get is the 'fight' with the baboons in Stacey's house: how did that get put in the script- there's no concept there! 😂 The fight in the chip warehouse is at least a fight in a chip warehouse with a conveyor belt and robots and things (even if it's pretty poor)- written down it looks like there are things you could do with that when you get on set and the stunt guys can work some business out. But a fight in an empty house...

    Still, as I say, I love all those flaws! It never bores me, it just charms me.

  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,161MI6 Agent

    That Bachau line reading that you cite really stands out. It feels like a first take where he forgot his line or something. How that made the final cut is absolutely beyond me.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 4,775MI6 Agent

    Yeah I almost feel like you can see Roger starting to think "what's he doing...?" 🤣

  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,161MI6 Agent


    'Cut! Print it, let's move on.'

    'John old boy...don't you think we need another take?'

    'Nope, too much to do. Let's go to the next setup.'

    'Dear boy, he clearly flubbed his line.'

    'Nope, it was fine. It's not like people are going to be watching and re-watching this in years to come.'

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 2,072MI6 Agent

    IMO, AVTAK is not underrated at all, it is one of the worst in the series and for me is always in a bottom three. That'll upset some [see above] but there you go. For more on my take: https://www.ajb007.co.uk/discussion/49422/moore-and-more-in-depth-critiques#latest

  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 4,161MI6 Agent
    edited May 20


    Per my rankings, it's bottom 5 for me and the worst of the Moore run of films. It'd be lower except for the fact that Walken is great and MacNee is great. There's good stuff here and there in the film but the bad stuff in it is SOOOOO very bad.

    Current rankings (updated 12/21)
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>NTTD>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>DN>YOLT>OP>
    TND>TWINE>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 4,775MI6 Agent
    edited May 20

    It's all subjective; I guess we should try to not feel upset by others' reactions to things, nor I'm sure would any of us aim to try and upset anyone else with our thoughts.

    My own personal feeling on it is that there hasn't been a Bond movie yet which is an actual bad movie. Some are better than others, but it's been a run of 25 good films I'd say, so it's all relative for me.

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 33,456Chief of Staff
  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 2,072MI6 Agent

    You are absolutely right on that. While I may dislike a few Bond films, compared to many many many more non-Bond films, even those are vibrant canvases of art.

  • sirsosirso Posts: 146MI6 Agent

    I agree. The only thing I liked was the fight scene in the train, which for once showed Craig's Bond as really having to fight his way out of it, rather than as usual finding his opponents easy to dispatch.

  • Lady RoseLady Rose London,UKPosts: 2,581MI6 Agent

    AVTAK had the makings' of a good film but was most definitely let down by Tanya Roberts and the fire brigade scene. In all honesty it was also let down by Sir Roger. He was far too old by that stage.

  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,572MI6 Agent

    These are also my picks.

    I think Casino Royale is awful. I don't get why it's at the top of most lists. Casino Royale is terribly paced with boring action sequences. The romance is unbelievable, with Bond's love for Vesper resembling a schoolboy's love for his teacher. Daniel Craig is completely miscast in a film written for a much younger actor. It's frustrating how Bond fails at everything except capturing Mr White.

    I think Moonraker is a masterpiece and doesn't deserve to always be at the bottom. It's one of the most exciting films of the series. Dr Goodhead is one of the best Bond girls for how she is more capable than Bond is an serves the story so well.

    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • SpectreOfDefeatSpectreOfDefeat Posts: 392MI6 Agent

    Overrated: You Only Live Twice.

    Some classic production design and music aside, this is a yawningly paced film. Connery gives his worst performance as Bond, Donald Pleasance is good but underutilised (his failure to return in OHMSS means this version of Blofeld doesn't get a satisfactory rematch against Bond), and the secondary villains Osato and Helga Brandt are fairly thinly drawn and dull. This film's iconic imagery (volcano base, Blofeld and his cat) ensures its legacy far more than its actual quality.

    Underrated: Tomorrow Never Dies.

    Criticised by some as boring and lacking substance, Tomorrow Never Dies is a slyly satirical film with energetic action sequences (the motorbike chase, the BMW chase), an interesting villain concept in Elliot Carver, and a capable and memorable Bond girl in Wai Lin. It also has one of the best climaxes in the series in terms of sheer action.

    "The spectre of defeat..."

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