James Bond’s Fate- Daring, or Derivative? [SPOILERS]

SpectreOfDefeatSpectreOfDefeat Posts: 389MI6 Agent
edited May 29 in No Time To Die (Bond 25)

James Bond’s death in No Time to Die might seem to be a shocking and provocative story beat. However, the plot strand of the hero unexpectedly carrying out a noble act of self-sacrifice has been used before, most notably in a number of blockbuster films made during the six-year hiatus between SPECTRE (2015) and No Time to Die (2021). For example…


Wolverine dies at the end of Logan (2017)


Luke Skywalker dies at the end of Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)


Tony Stark (Iron Man) dies at the climax of Avengers: Endgame (2019)


All three of these characters are the heroic leads of their respective franchises; all three give their lives as part of a desperate sacrifice aimed at protecting others; and all three character deaths come as highly unexpected and emotive plot twists to the audience. Sound familiar? I therefore contend that, regardless of Eon’s claims that the plot arc of Bond’s death was envisioned as far back as 2006- which may or may not be the case- No Time to Die took more than a little inspiration from its franchise rivals here. There are other similarities between films here too. In Logan (2017) Wolverine even dies while defending a previously unknown adopted daughter from harm. So what do others think of this theory? Was Bond’s death partially inspired by other critically acclaimed blockbusters of the late 2010s? Or is it simply a spectacular coincidence? What do others think? 

"The spectre of defeat..."

Comments

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 33,442Chief of Staff

    Oh, it's derivative all right but the influences go back a lot further than those examples- 1967, to be precise.

    https://www.ajb007.co.uk/discussion/54920/spoilers-nttds-a-remake-of-the-last-bond-film-youd-expect

  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,983MI6 Agent
    edited May 29

    SpectreOfDefeat is so good at calming down the forum by not raising hard and divisive issues! That's his main strenght in my opinion, 😀

  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 3,394MI6 Agent

    have we completely given up on SPOILER warnings then?

    I know CoolHondBond and LadyRose both recently said they knew the ending before they finally saw the movie

  • SpectreOfDefeatSpectreOfDefeat Posts: 389MI6 Agent

    I imagine its pretty well known by this point- but for the benefit of the uninitiated, I've tagged my original post and changed the subtitle.

    I suspect that the public will remember NTTD mostly as "the one where Bond dies" in the same way as some other Bond films are only widely remembered for one thing- Moonraker as "the outer space one", Thunderball as "the underwater one"...

    "The spectre of defeat..."

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 33,442Chief of Staff

    I now wish we'd agreed on a stated spoiler period when the film was released or even earlier. However, there has to be a time to assume that most people know the major plot point of the movie and like SoD above I believe we've reached that point.

  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,983MI6 Agent

    Should we try to discuss what the thread was supposed to be about, or is it already to late? 😁

  • SpectreOfDefeatSpectreOfDefeat Posts: 389MI6 Agent

    We can certainly try. I reckon that Bond's death in NTTD is comparatively less meaningful than (say) the similar scenes in the films I mentioned; with Luke Skywalker and Wolverine, both character's deaths symbolise a 'passing of the torch' moment to a new hero introduced to carry on their legacy- Rey in SW and the daughter character in Logan, respectively.


    With Bond's death, the same triumphant moment doesn't work because...err...who, within the universe of NTTD, is going to take up Bond's mantle? Not the MI6 regulars, or Mathilde. Nomi, perhaps, given that Bond has acted as a grudging mentor figure of sorts throughout the film, but if Nomi reappears in Bond 26 surely this would be alongside a new Bond actor. So if CraigBond's death is intended to act as 'passing the torch' to a new generation of heroes, it is highly unsatisfactory. While I recall being somewhat ambivalent about Bond's death in my original review of NTTD posted on this site, I've only grown more critical of it since, and the lack of viewer satisfaction from the botched symbolism of Bond's death moment is a big reason why.

    "The spectre of defeat..."

  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 19,983MI6 Agent
    edited May 29

    If Nomi returns in Bond26 it can only mean one of two things:

    • EON has given up making James Bond movies.
    • EON belives in the code name theory.

    This is of course Nomi is very much tied to a timeline where James Bond dies. She can't turn up again unless Bond is a code name or Bond is never used again in a movie. I don't think that'll happen because it would be disastrous. Nomi belongs 100% to the CraigBond timeline and can't appear in a Bond movie ever again. Bond 26 won't be a passing of the torch to a new generation in my opinion. I think EON has to start a new timeline witha new Bond. It's possible they continue a lose Connery-Brosnan timeline, but I'd probably prefer a comletely new timeline.

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