Pros and cons: No Time To Die SPOILERS

John from CorkJohn from Cork Posts: 45MI6 Agent
edited October 3 in No Time To Die (Bond 25)

I know it's a little bit too soon but I wanted a headstart. CON: Absolutely awful generic lazy title, it's basically Die another day said in a different way.

Comments

  • Mr MalloryMr Mallory North by northwestPosts: 627MI6 Agent

    A big pro is the inclusion of many more strong female characters especially with Lashana Lynch.

    What makes you think this is my first time?
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 2,474MI6 Agent

    Now that this film is finally released (at least in some parts of the world), maybe this Pros n Cons thread should be moved to the No Time To Die (Bond 25) category subforum? At least while the film's new and the main thing being discussed.

    And maybe modify the title slightly to Pros and Cons: No Time To Die, just to be consistent with the existing threads.


    @John from Cork , I am going to take the liberty of adding a link to this thread from @Absolutely_Cart 's Pros and Cons: Compendium (50 years of James Bond 007) thread, which contains links to all the 24 existing Pros and Cons threads (most of which Cart created).

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 31,781Chief of Staff

    I've followed both of those suggestions, caractacus. 😊

  • SpectreOfDefeatSpectreOfDefeat Posts: 354MI6 Agent

    Pros:

    A few excellent action sequences including the pre-titles and the gun battle in Cuba

    Daniel Craig and Lea Seydoux's performances were strong

    Paloma was a memorable Bond girl

    Blofeld's death was brutal and shocking, and a very well-handled plot twist

    Cary Fukunaga's direction was mostly effective and dynamic

    Good interplay between the MI6 regulars, especially the Bond-M scene in M's office

    Bond at his coldest- the killings of Logan and later Safin hark back to Timothy Dalton's toughness

    Some dry witty quips, especially the "I blew his mind..." line

    Bond's death was a bold and emotional moment


    Cons:

    The climax was drawn-out and Safin's plan was unclear

    Safin wasn't as strong a villain as he had the potential to be

    Obruchev was played mostly for laughs

    Bond's death was an unearned and contrived moment

  • The Red KindThe Red Kind EnglandPosts: 2,111MI6 Agent
    edited October 6

    Pros;

    Gunbarrel back at the start

    Norway - Safin and young Madeleine

    Matera

    DC looked in good shape

    Cinematography and Action sequences

    DB5 action - classic scene

    Jamaica

    Bond on his yacht and seeing his villa

    Felix's return

    Cuba

    Paloma

    Aston Martin V8

    Ash's death

    London

    Q

    Nomi

    Some good humour

    Safin's lair and outfit

    Poison Garden

    Kick-ass Bond

    Direct Fleming elements

    Some of Bond's wardrobe - Tom Ford suits, Commando outfit

    Bond's watch

    Soundtrack not bad, nice to have OHMSS pieces in there

    Cons;

    Titles not Daniel Kleinman's best

    Title song not great

    Gunbarrel could have been more classic

    Hugh Dennis (like him personally, but just threw me right off as believable in a Bond film)

    Felix's death

    Bond having a daughter

    Lack of chemistry between Bond and Madeleine

    V8 underused

    Norway underused

    Nomi a bit childish at times

    Some of Bond's wardrobe - Massimo Alba Matera outfit. Duster

    Plot holes

    Safin's motive questionable

    Obruchev was annoying

    Bond dying and graphic nature of it

    The film causing me to be anxious for the next 3 years at least, to see what else they can do to tarnish the franchise.

    "Any of the opposition around..?"
  • MrZarebaMrZareba Krakow, PolandPosts: 1,771MI6 Agent

    Pros:

    • Madalleine being way more convinving as Bond's second love, which wasn't the case in Spectre
    • Vesper's theme playing over her grave, came out of nowhere and made me tear up because of nostalgia
    • the DB5 gadgets, along with realistic bulletproof windows (in Spectre the DB10 deflects bullets like it's absolutely invinvible, which was a bit much), overal the whole chase sequence was much better than the one in Spectre
    • no mention of Blofeld being Bond's brother, Q actually making a joke about that ("good thing you two aren't actually related")
    • absolutely stunning performance by Craig, he really made the emotions stick
    • M being a government dick for some time
    • great choreography in fight scenes
    • both Nomi and Bond seemed like super dangerous agents because of how quick and strong they seemed to be, didn't get that feeling in the previous outings
    • some of Bond's one liners were great, really "blew my mind"
    • one of the last shots of Bond standing on top of the building with his daughter's plush toy stuck in one of his braces, looking up to the incoming misiles, that's the moment where I started to tear up to be honest
    • the line "for James"

    Cons:

    • in the last scene Madalleine says she's going to tell a story about Bond, James Bond to Mathilde. But the thing is that she probably never found out much about James since she still didn't know about Vesper very much in the beginning of the movie. As we know, later on there wasn't really a chance for James to tell her his escapades before he met her, so this line falls kinda flat
    • overacting by Jeffrey Wright as Felix - not sure if it's only me but his laugh was very fake, along with this reactions
    • Safin's plan is unclear, no deep backstory to really care about the character - he's just a plot point that leads James to his demise. He's nowhere near the level of Silva, LeChiffre or even Blofeld I feel - not sure if he's worst than Dominic Greene but let's keep them equal as the worst villains in Craig's era. I still don't get what was his motivation for wiping out millions of humans, the goal was to avenge his parents by destroying Spectre, but later on it's more like "whathever's in the script"
    • Bond needs to find Madalleine quickly after Blofeld dies but choses to drive his Aston V8 from London to the north of Norway. Yeah.
    • Bond gets his 00 status despite a 5 year hiatus after like 10 minutes, wheras in Skyfall he was tested (and failed) after just 3 months of absence
    • Bond sailing to Cuba as fast as Nomi's plane? That scene was also a stretch
    • Safin just leaving Mathilde alone in the corridor because she didn't want to go with him. Probably the most headscratching scene in the whole movie for me.
    • Bond gets a watch "attachment" from Q on the back of his Omega, that he already owned (check his wrist back in Cuba), yet the whole dial lights up when he uses the EMP (makes no sense to go that deep with modifications) but that's probably nitpicking
    • A Land Rover defender doing a flip because of a metal rope that's anchored on one side by a bike?


  • A7ceA7ce Birmingham, EnglandPosts: 652MI6 Agent

    Pros

    Paloma


    Cons

    Nomi

  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,776MI6 Agent

    Pros:

    First hour or so isn't bad and has some of the "cool" we expect from a traditional Bond movie, and there are spots here or there later as good.

    Acting is first rate from nearly everyone.

    Secondary characters, for the most part, work well.

    Audio and visual nods to classic Bond films -- Dr. No, You Only Live Twice, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, etc.

    Cars and Craig's dressy clothes look good, and Craig gets to demonstrate a bit more emotional range than in his previous Bond iterations.

    Cons:

    Weak, muddled story.

    Weak, colorless villain(s).

    At times, lethargic pace.

    No chemistry with Seydoux or daughter -- almost no romance.

    Uneven, sometimes pretentious direction -- often relies too much on close ups and ponderous posing by actors. For the budget, screen often seems empty.

    Scenes generally don't earn their emotional cred -- we're supposed to feel something but it's based more on the idea than the execution.

    Bond death seems tacked on. His nihilistic journey of constant loss and failure has been like a serious Get Smart, where apparently he learns that life just isn't fair.

  • SevenSeven Posts: 294MI6 Agent

    Pro:

    ”Looking for old wrecks.”

    ”Well, you’ve come to the right place.”

    Con:

    CGI at island

  • Miles MesservyMiles Messervy Posts: 1,592MI6 Agent

    Pros:

    Strong acting by nearly everyone involved.

    Car chases were the best of the Craig era: well-paced, good stunt work, and easy enough to follow.

    Believable, developed romance between Bond and Madeline (unlike in Spectre).

    Well-choreographed action throughout.

    Bond killing Logan Ash with the car recalled FYEO and some of Bond’s other colder moments, which for Craig’s interpretation of Bond.

    A solid score, successfully incorporating aspects of the title song, the Bond theme, and cues from OHMSS throughout.

    Bond’s daughter. This is subjective. I fully understand why people are knocking it. But it has some basis in Fleming. Also, I have a little girl so this one really hit home in a way that it would not have a few years ago.

    The small memorial service at MI6, as imagined by Alec Trevelyan in Goldeneye.


    Cons:

    Underwhelming villain. This is the second consecutive film where they hired a gifted actor to play a villain that fell completely flat.

    Convoluted plot. What exactly was Safin trying to do? And why? Because his mom died?

    Too many bullet storms, which added unnecessary length to the final act.

    Bond’s death. Killing Bond was always going to be controversial, but the execution here felt particularly lazy. For such an important moment, it could’ve been done better than just blowing him up.

    M. I felt Fiennes performance was not on par with his prior work. Also, how does M still have a job at the end of this film? In Skyfall, they forced out Dench’s M for losing a hard drive. Here, Mallory has created a DNA super weapon that can wipe out humanity, loses it, causes an international incident (and costs Bond his life) and it’s back to work at the end?

  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 1,377MI6 Agent

    It's very difficult to get dismissed from public office under Boris Johnson's 'hands-off' approach to government.

    Maybe M cracked a few jokes [Build Bond Better???] during his dressing down and the PM said, "Well, good job, keep it quiet and no one will notice. Better luck next time." Except he'd say it in Latin.

  • SFPROPSSFPROPS USAPosts: 372MI6 Agent

    PROS:

    I like the call back to "we have all the time in the world" and the use of the song at the end of the movie. I was disappointed with SPECTRE being a sort of homage to OHMSS that they cut the line from the very end of the script when Bond and Madeline speed away in the car, but I'm guessing they thought it through to the next film and realized it would be better served there, and it was given that the words held the same irony due to death.

    I liked the homage to the YOLT book where essentially Saffin (instead of being Dr. No like fans suspected) was just another facet of the original Blofeld character with his poison garden in Japan and finding out Bond had a child (girl instead of a boy this time).

    Really good performances.

    I liked the story arch - even the controversial things. Made for more emotional impact, and we know a new Bond will come back that won't be required to strictly stick to story cannon now that Craig's films established the "reboot" mechanism. This makes for much more fresher story telling I think and allows Bond to grow as a person as the films go on.

    I thought the score was very good and I like the theme. Very subtle with the Bond elements but moving.

    I think all the worries about this being a "woke" Bond weren't justified. While it was made clear that a woman could do Bond's job, in the end the cranky old white guy saved the world, the new recruit acknowledges his superiority and then ends up running to safety with the women and Bond still ends as 007. LOL

    CONS:

    Terrible and uninspired title sequence. Absolutely boring and generic and I don't blame the song. Think back to Casino Royale and Skyfall and how well the imagery foreshadowed the story and how strong and clear those images were. Just bad IMO.

    Wasn't a fan of the split PTS between the past and present but I'm not sure how they would have told the story otherwise.

    For some reason the last scene between Safin and Bond left me a little confused. I think I've figured it out, but it was hard to tell if Bond was going to die from his gunshots, or if he was really poisoned in some way and how exactly it was done because Malek delivered his lines like he had marbles in his mouth. All I could figure was that maybe he coded new nanobots rubbed on Madeline and/or Mathilde to kill him but him just having that bauble he'd shown Madeline in his hands just left me confused.

    Overall, I rate it the #3 of Craig's movies. Casino Royale, Skyfall, NTTD, SPECTRE and then QOS. I think that all of Craig's films other than maybe QOS, which I think is a decent Bond flick - but just not up to par with the other Craig movies, are as good or better than any of the other Bond films from any other era. Connery had Diamonds and about half of the other Bond's movies were either pretty clunky or just decent popcorn movies without much depth. I think only maybe Connery can compete with Craig when it comes to being able to delivery consistently good films in the series.

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