Again, I'd love to comment on how Salieri/Mozart compares to Norman/Barry but I must refrain
Oh, I won't tell anyone, feel free to comment.
Music publishing is a "funny" business and sadly Barry got the short end of the stick. It'll go down in history that Salieri wrote Bond Theme and Mozart merely arranged it. Yeah, pull the other one.
Dr. No is very good, but it's sometimes hard to distinguish quality and influence. Dr. No receives near-perfect marks today in hindsight, as its reputation was improved over time. It didn't have the kind of consensus it has today. And now it's viewed as a brilliant film which started a whole franchise.
Dr. No had that quaint old time nostalgia of back when life was simple, but I feel like Casino Royale surpasses it most aspects.
I'll welcome you too, Cart, and please take a look at the Welcoming thread in the Off-Topic forum- http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/34154/welcome-comings-goings/. I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself here.
DN wasn't suddenly revalued 40-50 years later, as you state. It was a landmark film and has been the subject of fairly constant discussion both inside and outside the Bond fan community. This makes it difficult to separate quality from influence, although it was of course very influential, and there is naturally a certain nostalgia factor too.
Long-term fans find that there's no hard and fast favourites in the series, though there will always be affection for certain entries.
Thank you both for your warm kind responses. Happy to be here.
There will always be preferences. I dislike how some fans stay biased toward a certain set of expectations rather than embracing the diversity of the series (i.e. the inanity of the "Craig is not Bond!!! community", but so far I'm finding that this community is pretty fair.
I was wrong to say Dr. No's rise in approval was a sudden jump rather than a general re-appraisal over all the years. At the same time, I really think a clear divide needs to be made from influence and quality. Movies are supposed to get better as more technology is available and the more modern favorites will be outdone as well.
Dr. No had some problems. The dated view of women and the "white mans burden" view of the foreigners. The "dragon" plot device. But what made the movie special was the creepy villain and that sense of imprisonment in such steel sterile walls was quite scary. Bond's escape was just as liberating and the action at the end was really good too. Particularly memorable was the scene of Dr. No speaking from the shadows. But at the same time, I felt him to be under-utilized as a villain, especially since so much attention has been brought to him.
Royale had a more involved (but still coherent) story. Vesper was a bondgirl with an actual personality rather than a sex object, and her feminine strengths were exactly the opposite of Bond's masculine ones. They both needed each other. The movie portrayed feminine and masculinity as two elements that help each other rather than purely one dominating or serving the other.
We're going to hear how Royale is dated in due time, but if anyone can predict in advance what we'll be saying about it, I'll be down to listen.
Since I won't be here in 50 years time, I'll have a bash now. CR06 will be seen as having given the Bond series a shot in the arm, with it taking a different direction from its predecessor and making a huge profit in doing so (a bit like GE, only more so). It'll be applauded for being fairly faithful to Fleming unlike CR67. The phones used will be laughed at, with tech having moved on.
We're going to hear how Royale is dated in due time, but if anyone can predict in advance what we'll be saying about it, I'll be down to listen.
Casino Royale retrospective review 2050: What a harsh Bond film in the wake of 9-11, but it worked back then. Since the loss of Venice and the food riots in Hong Kong and LA, the Bond films have happily returned to the good old days of Sir Roger Moore. And Justin Bieber was just the man to take up the OO7 mantle! Thank God the Bond movies are funny again in these dark times. Bieber's Kill Another Week is the top download since last year's Terminator 8: The Return To Returning. Casino Royale is the nadir of the Bond franchise, so dark & full of loss. What were they thinking of diverting from Die Another Day's brilliance, the Bond movie universally recognized as the pinnacle of Bond until Justin's two? The mind boggles.
And Justin Bieber was just the man to take up the OO7 mantle! Thank God the Bond movies are funny again in these dark times.
Wow, that is the most frightening dystopian future world I've ever read about! Truly, a total nightmare. Actually, I'd rather not see that future. Ever.
CR will most likely be held at the same Level as DN in 50 Years Time
CR is already a modern classic. They got it so right. It's actually sort of a miracle movie. Everything works so perfectly. In 2050 it'll still be regarded as the great film it is.
Dr No for me, without question. I think it's one of the more underrated films in the series - not only did it introduce Fleming's Bond character to the big screen, it did so spectacularly well, and it's reasonably (I use that term loosely) faithful to its original source material.
CR will most likely be held at the same Level as DN in 50 Years Time
CR is already a modern classic. They got it so right. It's actually sort of a miracle movie. Everything works so perfectly. In 2050 it'll still be regarded as the great film it is.
Not everything. The romance is given a bit of short shrift -- it is played out mostly as their bickering and then becomes a standard montage set to romantic music. A better film would have done more. Craig, too, is rather one-note as Bond. The argument could be made that that is how the character is defined, but he has little of the range of Connery emotionally. What he does have is Connery's masculinity, and that has been missing from the films for a long, long time.
Casino Royale also mimics other films a bit too much. The chase scene with the tanker truck is a lot like the chase scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark, right down to the fight in the cabin, for instance. The dialogue is never as creative or original as that in a film like Dr. No, whose title character has a bunch of great lines that reinforce his egotistical genius:
"One million dollars, Mr. Bond. You were wondering what it cost."
"Unfortunately I misjudged you, you are just a stupid police man . . . whose luck has run out."
"That's a Dom Perignon '55, it would be a pity to break it."
Bond himself gets some great lines:
"I'm flattered. I'd prefer the Revenge department. Of course, my first job would be finding the man who killed Strangways and Quarrel."
"Tell me, does the toppling of American missiles really compensate for having no hands?"
"That's a Smith & Wesson, and you've had your six."
There's really nothing in Casino Royale I can think of off-hand that compares, except maybe "I'm sorry. That last hand... nearly killed me." and "Are you okay?" But these lines aren't as meaty or creative -- they simply fit the moments in which they are uttered.
Casino Royale is at the top of the list for me of Bond movies made after the Connery era. It is made for a younger, more action-oriented audience that wants just enough of the emotional stuff to understand the story. They'll fill in the emotional details themselves as a result. It's better than many because the actors do more than the lines require, but it also falls short for that reason. Not perfect, but is is better than many today.
We're going to hear how Royale is dated in due time, but if anyone can predict in advance what we'll be saying about it, I'll be down to listen.
Casino Royale retrospective review 2050: What a harsh Bond film in the wake of 9-11, but it worked back then. Since the loss of Venice and the food riots in Hong Kong and LA, the Bond films have happily returned to the good old days of Sir Roger Moore. And Justin Bieber was just the man to take up the OO7 mantle! Thank God the Bond movies are funny again in these dark times. Bieber's Kill Another Week is the top download since last year's Terminator 8: The Return To Returning. Casino Royale is the nadir of the Bond franchise, so dark & full of loss. What were they thinking of diverting from Die Another Day's brilliance, the Bond movie universally recognized as the pinnacle of Bond until Justin's two? The mind boggles.
Now it's been a few years a I feel brave enough to say on here I think Casino is thee best Bond movie. Many will argue FRWL but Casino has it all.
FRWL is not my favourite Bond movie, but an objective analysis reveals that it is indeed the 'best' Bond movie. Sorry old boy, section 25 paragaph 13- you needed to know, sure you understand.
Comments
Oh, I won't tell anyone, feel free to comment.
Music publishing is a "funny" business and sadly Barry got the short end of the stick. It'll go down in history that Salieri wrote Bond Theme and Mozart merely arranged it. Yeah, pull the other one.
Sadly, that's not up to you. Or me, for that matter.
Dr. No had that quaint old time nostalgia of back when life was simple, but I feel like Casino Royale surpasses it most aspects.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
You'll learn. :007)
Welcome, BTW!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Thanks for your welcome, but you are being a bit condescending.
I feel like you're assuming I'm less refined because I prefer a more recent Bond film over one of the older ones.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
But sincerely though, welcome! -{
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
DN wasn't suddenly revalued 40-50 years later, as you state. It was a landmark film and has been the subject of fairly constant discussion both inside and outside the Bond fan community. This makes it difficult to separate quality from influence, although it was of course very influential, and there is naturally a certain nostalgia factor too.
Long-term fans find that there's no hard and fast favourites in the series, though there will always be affection for certain entries.
There will always be preferences. I dislike how some fans stay biased toward a certain set of expectations rather than embracing the diversity of the series (i.e. the inanity of the "Craig is not Bond!!! community", but so far I'm finding that this community is pretty fair.
I was wrong to say Dr. No's rise in approval was a sudden jump rather than a general re-appraisal over all the years. At the same time, I really think a clear divide needs to be made from influence and quality. Movies are supposed to get better as more technology is available and the more modern favorites will be outdone as well.
Dr. No had some problems. The dated view of women and the "white mans burden" view of the foreigners. The "dragon" plot device. But what made the movie special was the creepy villain and that sense of imprisonment in such steel sterile walls was quite scary. Bond's escape was just as liberating and the action at the end was really good too. Particularly memorable was the scene of Dr. No speaking from the shadows. But at the same time, I felt him to be under-utilized as a villain, especially since so much attention has been brought to him.
Royale had a more involved (but still coherent) story. Vesper was a bondgirl with an actual personality rather than a sex object, and her feminine strengths were exactly the opposite of Bond's masculine ones. They both needed each other. The movie portrayed feminine and masculinity as two elements that help each other rather than purely one dominating or serving the other.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
OMG, I'm sounding like older members who talked to me when I first joined!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
50 years later, people are going to find things that are offensive about the more recent Bond films that we overlooked.
I don't want to put the modern films on a gold pedestal, because in time, they'll be criticized as behind on the times too.
In fact, I've heavily criticized Skyfall for the disturbing shower scene which is every bit as wrong as the treatment of women in the earlier films.
We're going to hear how Royale is dated in due time, but if anyone can predict in advance what we'll be saying about it, I'll be down to listen.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
Since I won't be here in 50 years time, I'll have a bash now. CR06 will be seen as having given the Bond series a shot in the arm, with it taking a different direction from its predecessor and making a huge profit in doing so (a bit like GE, only more so). It'll be applauded for being fairly faithful to Fleming unlike CR67. The phones used will be laughed at, with tech having moved on.
What a harsh Bond film in the wake of 9-11, but it worked back then. Since the loss of Venice and the food riots in Hong Kong and LA, the Bond films have happily returned to the good old days of Sir Roger Moore. And Justin Bieber was just the man to take up the OO7 mantle! Thank God the Bond movies are funny again in these dark times. Bieber's Kill Another Week is the top download since last year's Terminator 8: The Return To Returning. Casino Royale is the nadir of the Bond franchise, so dark & full of loss. What were they thinking of diverting from Die Another Day's brilliance, the Bond movie universally recognized as the pinnacle of Bond until Justin's two? The mind boggles.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Damn, I've spluttered my coffee on my keyboard!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Wow, that is the most frightening dystopian future world I've ever read about! Truly, a total nightmare. Actually, I'd rather not see that future. Ever.
CR is already a modern classic. They got it so right. It's actually sort of a miracle movie. Everything works so perfectly. In 2050 it'll still be regarded as the great film it is.
Agreed.
Casino Royale also mimics other films a bit too much. The chase scene with the tanker truck is a lot like the chase scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark, right down to the fight in the cabin, for instance. The dialogue is never as creative or original as that in a film like Dr. No, whose title character has a bunch of great lines that reinforce his egotistical genius:
"One million dollars, Mr. Bond. You were wondering what it cost."
"Unfortunately I misjudged you, you are just a stupid police man . . . whose luck has run out."
"That's a Dom Perignon '55, it would be a pity to break it."
Bond himself gets some great lines:
"I'm flattered. I'd prefer the Revenge department. Of course, my first job would be finding the man who killed Strangways and Quarrel."
"Tell me, does the toppling of American missiles really compensate for having no hands?"
"That's a Smith & Wesson, and you've had your six."
There's really nothing in Casino Royale I can think of off-hand that compares, except maybe "I'm sorry. That last hand... nearly killed me." and "Are you okay?" But these lines aren't as meaty or creative -- they simply fit the moments in which they are uttered.
Casino Royale is at the top of the list for me of Bond movies made after the Connery era. It is made for a younger, more action-oriented audience that wants just enough of the emotional stuff to understand the story. They'll fill in the emotional details themselves as a result. It's better than many because the actors do more than the lines require, but it also falls short for that reason. Not perfect, but is is better than many today.
"I admire your courage, Miss---"
"Trench, Sylvia Trench."
"I admire your luck, Mister---"
"Bond, James Bond."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(The sound of a cell phone ringing.)
"Hello?"
"Mr. White? We need to talk."
"Who is this?---"
(The sound of a rifle firing.)
"AH!---"
(Mister White gets shot in the leg and crawls to the stone steps of his villa. And Bond suddenly appears at the top of the steps.)
"The name's Bond, James Bond."
The former. Connery just says it casually and coolly, and lit a cigarette at the same time.
It's not just the line, but how it's delivered.
When Connery said it in DN he was giving the audience information. Anyone since has been selling a brand name.
"Older members" = euphemism for Blackleiter???
That's it! -{
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS