The sad demise of a sex slave
![chrisisall](https://www.ajb007.co.uk/uploads/userpics/punbb/n14034.png)
There is a rather big & heated discussion going on at another JB site, and I wondered if that discussion might be handled a bit more coolly here at AJB. :007)
It's about Severine, whether it was right of Bond to bed (errr, shower) her in light of her sex worker/virtual slave status, and if her death was essential to the plot. My two contributions sum up my feelings about it- when asked "How could Bond have possibly saved her?" I responded:
"Suddenly, Bond spotted Severing being marched out, blood tinkling down her lip. He'd seen this march before, he knew what this was leading to. An execution. He glanced at his hand. Still shaking a bit, too much for the twisted William Tell nonsense he imagined was coming from where they were setting her up. Words were coming from Silva's mouth, but Bond didn't hear them, he was too deep into calculations, angles that might save them both. As the gun neared him, he didn't wait for it; he snatched it and shot at Silva's chest. The vest Silva wore saved his life, but he fell back hard. Even before the men began firing, Bond was seeking cover. He caught a glance from Severine as she shrunk behind the rock as best she could. He was being surrounded. Before he could formulate a new plan with what pitifully little he had to work with, the sound of helicopter blades ripped through the air..."
When the idea that silly & negative PC reactions to Bond's liaison with her were out of hand, my take was:
"There IS a bit of that going around, eh?
Bottom line, why set her up as a sympathetic character in need of saving just to kill her off in such a sadistic meaningless way when she a) could have been there of her own will so her dying is more of less on her, or b) written to actually make it through the situation so she could live to die another day?
IMO the PC reactions here are an intellectual smokescreen for pure dislike of simplistic audience manipulation. Dark for the sake of dark is beginning to wear thin, as I believe we are seeing on this thread."
Thoughts on this topic?
It's about Severine, whether it was right of Bond to bed (errr, shower) her in light of her sex worker/virtual slave status, and if her death was essential to the plot. My two contributions sum up my feelings about it- when asked "How could Bond have possibly saved her?" I responded:
"Suddenly, Bond spotted Severing being marched out, blood tinkling down her lip. He'd seen this march before, he knew what this was leading to. An execution. He glanced at his hand. Still shaking a bit, too much for the twisted William Tell nonsense he imagined was coming from where they were setting her up. Words were coming from Silva's mouth, but Bond didn't hear them, he was too deep into calculations, angles that might save them both. As the gun neared him, he didn't wait for it; he snatched it and shot at Silva's chest. The vest Silva wore saved his life, but he fell back hard. Even before the men began firing, Bond was seeking cover. He caught a glance from Severine as she shrunk behind the rock as best she could. He was being surrounded. Before he could formulate a new plan with what pitifully little he had to work with, the sound of helicopter blades ripped through the air..."
When the idea that silly & negative PC reactions to Bond's liaison with her were out of hand, my take was:
"There IS a bit of that going around, eh?
Bottom line, why set her up as a sympathetic character in need of saving just to kill her off in such a sadistic meaningless way when she a) could have been there of her own will so her dying is more of less on her, or b) written to actually make it through the situation so she could live to die another day?
IMO the PC reactions here are an intellectual smokescreen for pure dislike of simplistic audience manipulation. Dark for the sake of dark is beginning to wear thin, as I believe we are seeing on this thread."
Thoughts on this topic?
Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
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Comments
You also have to remember that many of her scenes were cut.
"Rape her, then tie her up and rape her again!!! Plant a bomb in her flat and tell her it's gonna go off at 9.05pm exactly!!"
Hmm, maybe not.
Just come from that thread, chrisisall! Some of us try to get away from that nonsense over here!
Roger Moore 1927-2017
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I don’t think it is necessarily a given that Bond could have saved Severine, and I don’t think it was obvious that she was going to be killed.
My objection to this particular scene is twofold:
1.I did not like the way her death was filmed. To be honest, when I first saw SF I thought Silva had missed completely (as part of some weird mind game) and that Severine had fainted. This was compounded by…
2. Bond’s reaction, or lack thereof. The “waste of good scotch” line didn’t bother me at first, and then I realized Severine was dead and my opinion changed. I know this is Bond and he’s supposed to be ruthless and all, but I found the “waste of good scotch” quip to just be tacky and offensive. It wouldn’t have been so bad if we saw at least a quick flash of anger on Bond’s face and then he said it.
Don’t get me wrong. I loved SF, but this scene just didn’t work for me.
A Gent in Training.... A blog about my continuing efforts to be improve myself, be a better person, and lead a good life. It incorporates such far flung topics as fitness, self defense, music, style, food and drink, and personal philosophy.
Agent In Training
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I think that you both are missing what this scene represents....it shows how ruthless Silva is...how single minded he is in his quest for revenge...and just how far Bond has slipped...he didn't think that Silva would kill Severine....that he was scaring her and also proving a point to Bond...Bond misreads this...Silva kills her and Bond is 'shocked' at this...how far he's fallen...how he didn't see this coming...and this provokes his reaction and his steady climb from his malaise...
I pretty much agree with your take on this, Sir Miles. I do indeed think that was the point of the scene. My problem was that it was just a bit too underplayed. I'm usually all for subtlety in films (I'm a fan of Jim Jarmusch and Takeshi Kitano, after all), but in this instance, I thought it was too subtle.
A Gent in Training.... A blog about my continuing efforts to be improve myself, be a better person, and lead a good life. It incorporates such far flung topics as fitness, self defense, music, style, food and drink, and personal philosophy.
Agent In Training
Fair comment...although I prefer 'too subtle' over 'too obvious'....but I guess its subjective -{
When The Man From UNCLE comes out, perhaps EON wil get on with making FUN Bond movies once more, I'm tired of the dark angsty stuff- Tim's Bond went precisely far enough in that direction for me; no need to try & outdo him.
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I am mostly in agreement with you. I have the same take on the scene as Sir Miles and it didn't bother me once I had a moment to reflect upon it. Plus, the look on Craig's face convinced me that he was indeed shocked by Silva's ruthlessness and that he was struggling a bit to appear unflappable (thus his quip about the scotch). But I do see how one could feel that the underlying emotions of the scene were handled so subtlely that they could be easily missed.
The shooting episode was designed to humiliate Bond and punish Severine for her treachery.
She was branded like property. She didn't choose to be marked. Slaves were marked with hot irons, one symbol for each owner. So was Severine, but with ink. That's my 2cents in the jar
Plus her voice is really strange, so she well deserved being shot by Silva just to shut her up
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I take it you don't drink Scotch?
Before you or anybody else gets offended, let me get to my point: this whole discussion reminds me about the discussion after QoS opened in theaters. Remember the Palio scene? People were offended about the way some innocent by standers (1 girl) were shot and questions were asked "how could Bond shoot his gun in the crowd???" (he didn't). IMHO just a lot of nonsense. Bond's a killer also his character is about the way he does things for the Queen and Country and feels conflicted about it. To me that scene (waste of good scotch) was reminiscent about the way Bond is forced to denounce that poor bastard Cambell, a friend of his in the service, in OHMSS, both in the book as well as in the movie.
-Mr Arlington Beech
I'm guessing you also have an issue with how Solange died in Casino Royale? As she is tortured and killed by Le Chiffre to find out how blabbed.
When M asks him on the beach near her body about remaining emotionally detached from his work, Bond casually replies "no" with no emotion whatsoever. I see both instances as no different and shows just how ruthless Bond is and should be.
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If he really is that cold and ruthless then I have no interest in him. To my mind Bond can be ruthless, and he can be cold if the subject deserves it in his opinion. He is for me much more complex than that.
-Mr Arlington Beech
Actually, I thought both of these actions were pretty despicable.
A Gent in Training.... A blog about my continuing efforts to be improve myself, be a better person, and lead a good life. It incorporates such far flung topics as fitness, self defense, music, style, food and drink, and personal philosophy.
Agent In Training
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http://i.movie.as/p/600/86930.jpg
She looks in charge and purposeful here, certainly not being controlled by her bodyguards as they would be in front and behind and close if that were the case. They look in a subservient position to her.
(But Logan said there IS no renewal...)
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But you're probably Laughing for Chickens....
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Why would they cut stuff like this? It actually does fix one of the problems with the film and if there are more scenes like that then SF could actually be salvaged just by re=editing to be far more coherent. They need a new cut for this film apparently... wonder if it was ultimately the director's choice or the studio...