1

Topic: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

Hello to all. In this discussion we will focus on the actual golden gun prop used in the film the man with the golden gun and hopefully put to rest many of the roomers and myths out there that pertain to it. The goal of this topic is to is to find out which prop did what and where they are now. I myself have spent 15 + years studying the props. have many pictures, ideas, and facts that solve a lot of questions people seem to have: however, I do not know everything! If anyone has questions, information or personal pictures taken of the actual prop then you are encouraged to post it.

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

I am all ears Mr. Sumner - love to hear your theory and see some pictures - post away Mr. Sumner  ajb007/martini  ajb007/martini  ajb007/martini

3

Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

first up, sorting the three guns used on set.

in the first seen we see the golden gun we are introduced to this shot.
http://s15.postimage.org/46kw988yf/gg12.jpg

I have circled the cufflink trigger notice how in this seen its straight (looks a lot like the S.D. studio cuff link) we are going to call this gun Gun A in the next seen that follows we see this photo in which I have circled some features.

http://s11.postimage.org/9x3rim3in/gg11_copy.jpg

first thing I want to point out is that the cufflink trigger in this seen is angled as I have circled in this photo. Also the square blank spot is missing! This is easily explained... Remember in this shot the gun is reflected in the mirror and the blank spot is only on one side of the gun so in order to get the gun to appear the same without giving the illusion away the gun was flipped so it would appear to be pointing the same direction as we see in the first seen. (If you have a factory entertainment "FE" replica golden gun you can test this theory your self in front of a mirror.) I have circled the mid section of the barrel to point the fact that there is no lip where the pen cap meet in the middle. There is just a dividing line. Also at the tip of the barrel there is another dividing line associated with the clip/sights this gun is going to be called Gun B.

http://s18.postimage.org/h7hhtr151/gg2_copy.jpg

in this photo we see a seen from when the gun was assembled this gun is called the Gimmick Gun or Gun C. Notice that in this seen the cufflink/trigger is also angled like the Solid Gun B and has a definite lip on the gun barrel that sets it apart from Gun B. I also have the Colibri logo circled to show that the gun did in fact have it.
So now we have are three guns A, B, and C

Last edited by sumner (14th May 2012 04:48)

4

Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

Other photos of Gun A

http://s15.postimage.org/wvq1mjulj/the_gimmick_man_albert_luxford_james_bond_golden_gun_x380_copy.jpg

http://s16.postimage.org/pgrzlul4h/gg14.jpg


pictures of Gun B

http://s18.postimage.org/mtqfb53t1/golden_gun_large_copy.jpg

http://s14.postimage.org/tlyrdki7h/Gg2_Stunt_copy.jpg

you can clearly seen some features that are recognizable to the photos in the previous post. Gun B seems to be the one that is on display when its exhibited from time to time.

more to come later

Last edited by sumner (14th May 2012 04:48)

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

Nice work, sumner.

I am sure, that our very own GG and butteplug  ajb007/biggrin expert will chime in and I know his opinion on multiple guns as well.

Now about the trigger: Your theory is based onthe speculation that the trigger is fixed. What if the trigger can move like it can with the FE trigger?

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

6

Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

Bondtoys wrote:

Nice work, sumner.

I am sure, that our very own GG and butteplug  ajb007/biggrin expert will chime in and I know his opinion on multiple guns as well.

Now about the trigger: Your theory is based onthe speculation that the trigger is fixed. What if the trigger can move like it can with the FE trigger?

Oh i have much more proof to come don't worry.

7

Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

sumner wrote:

Other photos of Gun A

http://s15.postimage.org/wvq1mjulj/the_gimmick_man_albert_luxford_james_bond_golden_gun_x380_copy.jpg

http://s16.postimage.org/pgrzlul4h/gg14.jpg


pictures of Gun B

http://s18.postimage.org/mtqfb53t1/golden_gun_large_copy.jpg

http://s14.postimage.org/tlyrdki7h/Gg2_Stunt_copy.jpg

you can clearly seen some features that are recognizable to the photos in the previous post. Gun B seems to be the one that is on display when its exhibited from time to time.

more to come later

I'm almost certain the top image of Gun B in this post is actually the FE gun, if not both of them; it's definately an FE perspex stand in the top image. Am I missing something?

8

Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

dailo007 wrote:
sumner wrote:

Other photos of Gun A

http://s15.postimage.org/wvq1mjulj/the_gimmick_man_albert_luxford_james_bond_golden_gun_x380_copy.jpg

http://s16.postimage.org/pgrzlul4h/gg14.jpg


pictures of Gun B

http://s18.postimage.org/mtqfb53t1/golden_gun_large_copy.jpg

http://s14.postimage.org/tlyrdki7h/Gg2_Stunt_copy.jpg

you can clearly seen some features that are recognizable to the photos in the previous post. Gun B seems to be the one that is on display when its exhibited from time to time.

more to come later

I'm almost certain the top image of Gun B in this post is actually the FE gun, if not both of them; it's definately an FE perspex stand in the top image. Am I missing something?

nah the photo of the first gun B in the list has more to it than a FE replicas  (I will explain later). Also the stand does not even fit the gun the same way the FE replicas do. A FE replica can be seen with the lip on the pen the FE vs this one. there is much more but if i start talking about it now it will get really confusing:P

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

I'm confused already.

No doubt the resident expert will clarify or dismiss your claims here. And tbh, I take his word as gospel, especially on the GG.

Welcome btw,

MG

'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org

10

Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

I'm also confused LOL ...But like MG said above let's wait and see what our GG expert has to say  ajb007/wink

He's me Bruv and I can assure you that he knows about GG's more than anyone  ajb007/bond

Knowing who to trust is Everything in this business.       

TIS  - "The moment you think you got it figured - you're wrong"

11

Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

ok so more to it.

if you look very closely in various seens of gun B you will see a little pin or "dot" i am almost certain that this is where the trigger is linked to make the trigger able to pull back.... i also believe that because of this, GUN B is the Gun that fired the cap. Here is my proof.

photo A
here is the pin that goes through circled
http://s9.postimage.org/r4qmtw317/image.jpg

photo B
here it is again with an arrow pointing at it
http://s18.postimage.org/fwx61d5dx/image.jpg

The reason I say that this is the gun that fired is because between the three guns used this one seems to be the only one that has the "Pin" and in other screen captures i used proves this theory. I had to put two and two together to come up with this conclusion.

if we take a look at these screen shot you will notice some things. (now pay close attention.)
photo C
http://s7.postimage.org/69rjowb0n/gg9_copy.jpg
this picture it the seen from when Scaramanga was aiming on top of the Golden Dragon the arrow is pointing to a small lip that very much differs from the next picture

photo D
http://s14.postimage.org/adyrehtm5/cap_gun_2.jpg
this picture is the actual firing of the gun a split second before the flash. First off there is no lip in this seen and i have some things circled. The first thing is this imperfection or Scratch I have circled in red which is important later on. I also have circled another imperfection in yellow that is also unique to this one gun also the bottom part of the clip is a bit longer than in the previous photo.

now to put it together...

in this seen you can clearly make out the same barrel end with the scratch and imperfections that I have circled, but you also have the "pin" which I have circled in blue thus making the Gun B the one that fires the cap.
http://s14.postimage.org/6s24tc20d/gg4_copy.jpg

now in this next photo the Pin does not exist and the barrel has the lip where the cap meets the body half way up the barrel. Also there is the lip on the tip of the barrel like was seen in photo C  but what I really want to point out is the lack of the bottom lip on the the lighter extension...this is really the only seen where I see that its hard to make out if this goes to gun A or C???
http://s16.postimage.org/wazzmo12p/image.jpg

Last edited by sumner (14th May 2012 07:15)

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

sumner wrote:

first up, sorting the three guns used on set.

this is the first seen that shows the golden gun
http://s15.postimage.org/46kw988yf/gg12.jpg

I have circled the cufflink trigger notice how in this seen its straight (looks a lot like the S.D. studio cuff link) we are going to call this gun Gun A in the next seen that follows we see this photo in which I have circled some features.

http://s11.postimage.org/9x3rim3in/gg11_copy.jpg

first thing I want to point out is that the cufflink trigger in this seen is angled as I have circled in this photo. Also the square blank spot is missing! This is easily explained... Remember in this shot the gun is reflected in the mirror and the blank spot is only on one side of the gun so in order to get the gun to appear the same without giving the illusion away the gun was flipped so it would appear to be pointing the same direction as we see in the first seen. (If you have a factory entertainment "FE" replica golden gun you can test this theory your self in front of a mirror.) I have circled the mid section of the barrel to point the fact that there is no lip where the pen cap meet in the middle. There is just a dividing line. Also at the tip of the barrel there is another dividing line associated with the clip/sights this gun is going to be called Gun B.

http://s18.postimage.org/h7hhtr151/gg2_copy.jpg

in this photo we see a seen from when the gun was assembled this gun is called the Gimmick Gun or Gun C. Notice that in this seen the cufflink/trigger is also angled like the Solid Gun B and has a definite lip on the gun barrel that sets it apart from Gun B. I also have the Colibri logo circled to show that the gun did in fact have it.
So now we have are three guns A, B, and C

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

I am just listing my thoughts and research I have conducted along with the photos I have collected as evidence to my claims. I do not claim to know any of this for certain that is for you to decide. "that's why its a Theory"  ajb007/biggrin
for all you out there
All I do ask is that you summit proof of any claim you might have.
Im looking for the truth

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

here is another thing I have noticed.

when Scaramanga was assembling his gun, he first opened the top to the cigarette case.... did you know that there is a button he pushed that released the top!!! its opposite of the ruby and I am about 99% sure of this. Take a look at these photos.

http://s17.postimage.org/qnl967pln/pho.jpg
the circle shows where he pressed the button and the arrow points to the catch that keep the lid closed.

http://s18.postimage.org/kytvbukxx/gg3_copy.jpg
this photo has circled the button in red and the colibri logo in yellow. Also I have an arrow pointing to the cut line (where the cigarette case and top are divided) and a blue circle to point out where the cuff link screws in.

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

Is anybody else getting a headache?

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

in this next seen i would like to point out a mystery
a lot of people ask if there were solid working individual pieces and my research has led met to say to believe that there were. here is my proof.

http://s14.postimage.org/yio13dyy5/gg5_copy.jpg

in this picture you see a lot but lets start with the lighter.... where is the colibri logo O.o ? even if it were a seen in which the lighter were flipped so the logo was facing away from us we would see the dividing line from were the externals are pulled out on the reverse side. Also notice the cigarette case has on dividing lines now the top is all one piece. You also have a seen when bond first lands and Scaramanga offers bond a cigarette and opens the cigarette case.

Now we see Scaramanga write with the pen so we know there is a working pen but as he sets it down if you look the top of the pen is solid.. there is no hole to make for a barrel as I have circled.
http://s7.postimage.org/4tspn2kyv/gg6_copy.jpg

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

Also i have made a plastic prototype of the Gimmick gun and I have constructed a way for it to assemble "Exactly" like it is show in the film (according to what I gather).

I believe that the back / bottom of the lighter extension has a valley/rail that lines up with a bump on the lid of the cigarette case  the lighter rides this "bump" like a rail and the same clips that hold on to the cigarette case lid snap down to hold the back of the lighter..... i have to make a Video or get photos of my prototype in action.

http://s15.postimage.org/gkfdcmoiv/p33.jpg

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

I know this is all rather confusing guys but I have researched this for 15 years so I don't expect anyone to get it right off the bat ajb007/tongue just hang in there and read carefully and you should get it ajb007/wink

1. the back of the lighter extension is aligned with the "bump"
2. the lighter has a rail that the bump slots in to and is pushed back
3. the lighter is pushed down and snaps into place with the catches
http://s18.postimage.org/442mcaw05/photo_w.jpg

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

All very interesting however I draw your attention to the following from the late great Gimmick Man himself Mr Albert Luxford:
The Man with the Golden Gun, after a little mishap on set.
Ah, yes. Don’t get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for actors, but also know that they’re not all technical experts either, and don’t always appreciate what might go into making something. Well, a lighter company called Colibri made the actual golden gun, which came together by assembling a cigarette case, lighter, cufflink and pen. It was gorgeous, and was all diamond cut. But someone made the mistake of giving it to an actor – I don’t know who, or how – to play around with and it was dropped, smashing into tiny pieces.
A frantic art director came running into my workshop and said, “they’ve busted the gun!” and he asked me if I could make another one.
I asked how long, and he said, “You’ve got a little more than tomorrow.” I said I’d need a little more than two weeks, at least.
I got together with a colleague of mine, Curly Currs, who was a gunsmith, and we set about making another one, out of more durable brass. The thing was, we knew that it then had to go over to Ireland to be diamond cut, as that was the only place it was done, and that would add days.
The film schedule was re-arranged, and we worked around the clock. We made it in just over a week, and flew it to Ireland. It was on stage within a fortnight of the “incident.” Of course we all realized that Colibri’s mistake was in making only one of the guns; really, they should have had a standby one too, but we all live and learn

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

sumner wrote:

Now we see Scaramanga write with the pen so we know there is a working pen but as he sets it down if you look the top of the pen is solid.. there is no hole to make for a barrel as I have circled.
http://s7.postimage.org/4tspn2kyv/gg6_copy.jpg

I really admire your passion. I personally would not spend 15 years of research, I'd ask Pete, but that's me  ajb007/lol

Now about the pen cap bottom: We all know, that Waterman made these kind of pens with these kind of caps, so I would never deny the possibility, that CL was playing with a real Waterman pencap in the mentioned scene. It does not give evidence that there was another GG prop.

President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
-------Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!------
FIRST TO DISCOVER substantial evidence that Chew Mee is in fact not totally nude in the TMWTGG pool scenes!

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

just a suggestion to mr sumner;

how about putting all your research into one article instead of the multiple postings? it might make it more easy to read for some people.

personally i care very little for the golden gun as i've seen it too many times. several home brew attempts, words of others being made, 3 generations of SD and now FE's attempt. it all gets a little old hat imo.

still, your passion for working it all out is admirable, and like i say, i think it'd be more beneficial to people, and a more worthy way of putting your points across by writing one artcile and not cinfusing the hell out of people with the several post attempt.

MG  ajb007/martini

'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org

22

Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

interchangeable barrels, I also refer you to PPW post above  ajb007/biggrin


sumner wrote:

ok so more to it.

if you look very closely in various seens of gun B you will see a little pin or "dot" i am almost certain that this is where the trigger is linked to make the trigger able to pull back.... i also believe that because of this, GUN B is the Gun that fired the cap. Here is my proof.

photo A
here is the pin that goes through circled
http://s9.postimage.org/r4qmtw317/image.jpg

photo B
here it is again with an arrow pointing at it
http://s18.postimage.org/fwx61d5dx/image.jpg

The reason I say that this is the gun that fired is because between the three guns used this one seems to be the only one that has the "Pin" and in other screen captures i used proves this theory. I had to put two and two together to come up with this conclusion.

if we take a look at these screen shot you will notice some things. (now pay close attention.)
photo C
http://s7.postimage.org/69rjowb0n/gg9_copy.jpg
this picture it the seen from when Scaramanga was aiming on top of the Golden Dragon the arrow is pointing to a small lip that very much differs from the next picture

photo D
http://s14.postimage.org/adyrehtm5/cap_gun_2.jpg
this picture is the actual firing of the gun a split second before the flash. First off there is no lip in this seen and i have some things circled. The first thing is this imperfection or Scratch I have circled in red which is important later on. I also have circled another imperfection in yellow that is also unique to this one gun also the bottom part of the clip is a bit longer than in the previous photo.

now to put it together...

in this seen you can clearly make out the same barrel end with the scratch and imperfections that I have circled, but you also have the "pin" which I have circled in blue thus making the Gun B the one that fires the cap.
http://s14.postimage.org/6s24tc20d/gg4_copy.jpg

now in this next photo the Pin does not exist and the barrel has the lip where the cap meets the body half way up the barrel. Also there is the lip on the tip of the barrel like was seen in photo C  but what I really want to point out is the lack of the bottom lip on the the lighter extension...this is really the only seen where I see that its hard to make out if this goes to gun A or C???
http://s16.postimage.org/wazzmo12p/image.jpg

***One day at a time***

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Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

This is 100% genuine Justin, the original GG was refurbished, you are correct about the stand though, FE supplied that.


dailo007 wrote:
sumner wrote:

Other photos of Gun A

http://s15.postimage.org/wvq1mjulj/the_gimmick_man_albert_luxford_james_bond_golden_gun_x380_copy.jpg

http://s16.postimage.org/pgrzlul4h/gg14.jpg


pictures of Gun B

http://s18.postimage.org/mtqfb53t1/golden_gun_large_copy.jpg

http://s14.postimage.org/tlyrdki7h/Gg2_Stunt_copy.jpg

you can clearly seen some features that are recognizable to the photos in the previous post. Gun B seems to be the one that is on display when its exhibited from time to time.

more to come later

I'm almost certain the top image of Gun B in this post is actually the FE gun, if not both of them; it's definately an FE perspex stand in the top image. Am I missing something?

***One day at a time***

24

Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

Lovely pen indeed
Very interesting read Mr. Sumner  ajb007/martini

Bondtoys wrote:
sumner wrote:

Now we see Scaramanga write with the pen so we know there is a working pen but as he sets it down if you look the top of the pen is solid.. there is no hole to make for a barrel as I have circled.
http://s7.postimage.org/4tspn2kyv/gg6_copy.jpg

I really admire your passion. I personally would not spend 15 years of research, I'd ask Pete, but that's me  ajb007/lol

Now about the pen cap bottom: We all know, that Waterman made these kind of pens with these kind of caps, so I would never deny the possibility, that CL was playing with a real Waterman pencap in the mentioned scene. It does not give evidence that there was another GG prop.

Last edited by texas007 (14th May 2012 14:01)

25

Re: The Actual Prop Golden Gun.

ppw3o6r wrote:

All very interesting however I draw your attention to the following from the late great Gimmick Man himself Mr Albert Luxford:
The Man with the Golden Gun, after a little mishap on set.
Ah, yes. Don’t get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for actors, but also know that they’re not all technical experts either, and don’t always appreciate what might go into making something. Well, a lighter company called Colibri made the actual golden gun, which came together by assembling a cigarette case, lighter, cufflink and pen. It was gorgeous, and was all diamond cut. But someone made the mistake of giving it to an actor – I don’t know who, or how – to play around with and it was dropped, smashing into tiny pieces.
A frantic art director came running into my workshop and said, “they’ve busted the gun!” and he asked me if I could make another one.
I asked how long, and he said, “You’ve got a little more than tomorrow.” I said I’d need a little more than two weeks, at least.
I got together with a colleague of mine, Curly Currs, who was a gunsmith, and we set about making another one, out of more durable brass. The thing was, we knew that it then had to go over to Ireland to be diamond cut, as that was the only place it was done, and that would add days.
The film schedule was re-arranged, and we worked around the clock. We made it in just over a week, and flew it to Ireland. It was on stage within a fortnight of the “incident.” Of course we all realized that Colibri’s mistake was in making only one of the guns; really, they should have had a standby one too, but we all live and learn

yes that is a roomer that needs to be addressed. because in a interview seen in the extras within a dvd you hear something very different. it was stated that Colibri did in fact make the first gun and "it was a mess". it was poorly crafted and held together by magnets. if an actor did drop any guns it would have to be before the three used on set were used bring up another topic... the gun that was never used or was it?

Peter Lamont first made a balsa wood gun utilizing a real waterman pen, This is the true first Golden gun made. he then took the gun to Colibri to make the gun out of metal. after which he got the 2nd gun, according to what was said it looked awful and Mr. Broccoli was stiffed with a bill. ( it was said that this gun was dropped and broken/never used )

http://s9.postimage.org/9rt7hidzv/origional_gun_3.jpg

http://s13.postimage.org/g985snh0z/origionl_gun_2.jpg

http://s15.postimage.org/q4b7b4m1z/origional_gun_1.jpg

very different than the other 3 used in the film.

this gun was used in a photo shoot however You can tell because of where the lighter is divided

finally got the picture guys

http://s11.postimage.org/mc9u4pc5r/KGr_Hq_NHJ_0_E9q_HLBHDNBP_l_B5_o_60_57.jpg

this sure looks like the Peter Nelson Gun to me but you be the judge.

Last edited by sumner (16th May 2012 14:03)