Was Roger Moore a rubbish Bond?

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  • AlexAlex The Eastern SeaboardPosts: 2,695MI6 Agent
    Ah, yes, and to those who slam Moore because he once wore a clown suit, may I say....so did John Wayne Gacy.
    Yikes!! I'm a Moore fan but using him and that in the same sentence is hardly an endorsement! Whoo!
  • Agent SidewinderAgent Sidewinder Posts: 223MI6 Agent
    Alex wrote:
    Ah, yes, and to those who slam Moore because he once wore a clown suit, may I say....so did John Wayne Gacy.
    Yikes!! I'm a Moore fan but using him and that in the same sentence is hardly an endorsement! Whoo!

    It's a weird example, yes, but I couldn't think of a better one offhand....Actually, aren't there quite a few scary depictions of clowns in fiction?
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,612MI6 Agent
    I think you are missing the point, my friend. I don't believe I or anyone else has suggested that the problem is Moore doesn't "look like a killer." The point is that when was called upon to actually DO some killing or just engage in violent battle, he simply was not convincing. Pierce Brosnan doesn't "look like a killer" either, nor, in my view does Lazenby (they both have the appearance of male models), but they looked like they could handle themselves in combat, or chase down a fleeing henchman, etc. Moore looks graceless, unathletic, weak, and most of all, exhausted when he is called upon to participate in an action scene. No offense to Moore fans, but that to me is a fatal flaw in his portrayal of Bond.
    The main problem I have with people who trot out the old "Moore doesn't look like a killer" schtick is....how many real-life killers (whether professional or otherwise) actually looked like killers? And being a secret agent, wouldn't it actually be more expedient for Bond to look harmless....so as to lure his enemies into a false sense of security?

    TV Tropes even has a whole page for this phenomenon:
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • Agent SidewinderAgent Sidewinder Posts: 223MI6 Agent
    edited February 2011
    Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then, Blackleiter. There are no magic formulas I can pull out of thin air to demonstrate Moore's effectiveness, so I'll leave it there. :007)
    I think you are missing the point, my friend. I don't believe I or anyone else has suggested that the problem is Moore doesn't "look like a killer." The point is that when was called upon to actually DO some killing or just engage in violent battle, he simply was not convincing. Pierce Brosnan doesn't "look like a killer" either, nor, in my view does Lazenby (they both have the appearance of male models), but they looked like they could handle themselves in combat, or chase down a fleeing henchman, etc. Moore looks graceless, unathletic, weak, and most of all, exhausted when he is called upon to participate in an action scene. No offense to Moore fans, but that to me is a fatal flaw in his portrayal of Bond.
    The main problem I have with people who trot out the old "Moore doesn't look like a killer" schtick is....how many real-life killers (whether professional or otherwise) actually looked like killers? And being a secret agent, wouldn't it actually be more expedient for Bond to look harmless....so as to lure his enemies into a false sense of security?

    TV Tropes even has a whole page for this phenomenon:
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 9,277MI6 Agent
    Not in my case Sidewinder. Then again, I'm the right age and amazingly handsome and charistmatic... I admit that wouldn't work for many people. :D

    I stay inside online on a Friday night because if I hit the clubs there'd be a riot. ;%
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • zaphodzaphod Posts: 1,183MI6 Agent
    Alex wrote:
    For every "He saved the series" and "it was a sign of the times", there is an equal "Octopussy clown suit" or "unconvincing physical presence". Both parties do tend to repeat themselves.

    I'm always amused/confused the lengths RM criticism reaches when petty swipes at the "comedic lightness" is the norm for analysis. I would not call some of these constructive criticism. A good number appear unhealthy obsessions. I also can't seem to shake the feeling a few simply can't stand to see the man does have fans.

    Considering most who dislike RM also appear to be DC fans, then they have their "messiah" today. One would think they'd utilise their life experiences with a certain sense of sophistication and simply enjoy Craig's tenure. I know I have. (enjoyed that is, not become sophisticated);)

    And for the record my favorite Bond and era was Connery.


    You are right to assert " most who dislike RM also appear to be DC fans" as I at best have mixed feelings re DC and do not feel that the tone of QOS was successful. For the record my position on DC is that he is so good that he almost makes me forget how mis cast a Bond he is (if that makes sense) For me his lack of stature and Gravitas are a problem, and when he pouts (which he does a lot) he makes me think of Zoolander rather than Bond. I would also prefer a balance with some light and even some fun for our chap (which I think we may get in 23)

    So I have not found my 'Messiah' yet and regard the current state of play as a partial success, with it all to play for in 23.
  • CuishCuish Posts: 15MI6 Agent
    He isn't bad but he's my least favourite of the lot.
  • sambwoysambwoy Berkshire, EnglandPosts: 90MI6 Agent
    edited March 2011
    Roger Moore might not have continued as Bond if it weren't for Never Say Never Again. I understand that they retained Moore for Octopussy because otherwise they couldn't compete with Connery in NSNA. The tests for OP with James Brolin I admit were interesting even if he may not have been the 'perfect' choice in the producers' eyes.

    At least Moore's films had a sense of humour, even if it got a bit too rampant in MR- but sometimes I would take that over the brooding 'rebooted' Bond we had later. Bond has been to both extremities: being too 'silly-funny' in MR and at the other being too realistic and violent (e.g. LTK)

    Musn't forget though that MR had some of the best moments in the entire series- right at the beginning there is the shuttle theft and the plane/parachute fight is good up to the point when Jaws appears, and there's Corrinne DuFour getting mauled and the centrifuge. And it was tremendously successful with the general movie-going public if not for die-hard fans, and was the biggest box office grosser until Goldeneye.
  • CISCIS Posts: 6MI6 Agent
    (Moore's) era represents a drastic course change in the series that took us far away from what Ian Fleming, or the inital films were shooting for.
    So Moore was in Diamonds Are Forever?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    :)) :)) :)) well said CIS, -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • dr. evan-gelistdr. evan-gelist SheffieldPosts: 398MI6 Agent
    Im a Dalton fan and roger was too old. am i correct in saying that in the scene where bond is protecting stacey sutton, he is waking up in the armchair, before the small earthquake happens in california?
    "You're in the wrong business... leave it to the professionals!"
    James Bond- Licence To Kill
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    Yes he is sleeping in an armchair, but he's supposed to of been up all night. Although this might of been a continuity error and Sir Roger was catching a quick cat nap inbetween filming. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Octopussy007Octopussy007 Posts: 1MI6 Agent
    Roger Moore was not rubbish. On the contrary, he was everything Bond should be, charismatic, good looking, tough - if necessary, the best sense of humour etc

    Bond is not just the guy who´s kicking anybody´s ass
    I don´t want Bond to be Cobra 11 character :))

    Don´t forget, he was part of the best Bond movie ever - my opinion

    OCTOPUSSY - no other Bond actor could be in this movie that was full of adventure, romance, danger, edgy moments, yet some great ironic moments

    The words are not enough how good this movie is. Beautiful Bond girls and the best locations ever in Bond movie...
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,612MI6 Agent
    I respect your opinion, but I couldn't disagree MOORE! :) I agree that Roger Moore was a good-looking, charismatic fellow, but in my opinion he lacked a crucial element to be an effective Bond. That element is DANGER! No, Bond is not just an ass-kicking machine, but one has to be able to believe that when it came time to put the foot to somebody he could do it in spades. Sorry, but Sir Roger just didn't cut it in that department. And if your choice for the best Bond movie ever is Octopussy, then I know we are extremely far apart on what we look for in a Bond movie. Not that Octopussy is terrible. In fact, I think it's one of the better Roger Moore Bonds. But there are so many Bond films that I consider better that I won't waste time listing them. But I'll give you this - at least you didn't choose A View To A Kill!
    Roger Moore was not rubbish. On the contrary, he was everything Bond should be, charismatic, good looking, tough - if necessary, the best sense of humour etc

    Bond is not just the guy who´s kicking anybody´s ass
    I don´t want Bond to be Cobra 11 character :))

    Don´t forget, he was part of the best Bond movie ever - my opinion

    OCTOPUSSY - no other Bond actor could be in this movie that was full of adventure, romance, danger, edgy moments, yet some great ironic moments

    The words are not enough how good this movie is. Beautiful Bond girls and the best locations ever in Bond movie...
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • Agent SidewinderAgent Sidewinder Posts: 223MI6 Agent
    I think one thing that affects the perception of Moore's fighting skills is the fact that a lot of the time he was fighting villains who were deliberately a lot bigger and/or tougher than Bond - Jaws, Kriegler and Tee Hee spring to mind right away. Then there's all the times he had to fight several toughs at once - the dressing room thugs in TMWTGG and Zorin's goons in AVTAK for instance. I guess that could contribute to the idea that Moore lacked as a physical threat during his tenure.
  • DEFIANT 74205DEFIANT 74205 Perth, AustraliaPosts: 1,881MI6 Agent
    I respect your opinion, but I couldn't disagree MOORE! :) I agree that Roger Moore was a good-looking, charismatic fellow, but in my opinion he lacked a crucial element to be an effective Bond. That element is DANGER! No, Bond is not just an ass-kicking machine, but one has to be able to believe that when it came time to put the foot to somebody he could do it in spades. Sorry, but Sir Roger just didn't cut it in that department.

    I agree. Fleming's Bond had some sort of a cold, cruel, dangerous look about him. That is what Roger lacked. I just didn't think Roger Moore could pull off that side of Bond very well.
    "Watch the birdie, you bastard!"

    Favourite Bond films list
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,612MI6 Agent
    Odd Job, Red Grant, the sumo wrestler in YOLT - pretty formidable opponents, but Connery looked convincing as he struggled and ultimately defeated them. I'm just saying!
    I think one thing that affects the perception of Moore's fighting skills is the fact that a lot of the time he was fighting villains who were deliberately a lot bigger and/or tougher than Bond - Jaws, Kriegler and Tee Hee spring to mind right away. Then there's all the times he had to fight several toughs at once - the dressing room thugs in TMWTGG and Zorin's goons in AVTAK for instance. I guess that could contribute to the idea that Moore lacked as a physical threat during his tenure.
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    To me Connery looked like he knew what he was doing,as did Lazenby. Moore had the "Old hollywood school" of fighting, Dalton looked awkward doing anything phyiscal ( running, fighting etc), so far Craig looks good in the fights,But in my opinion he has "The new Hollywood School" of fighting. In that nearly all movies have the same generic fighting style. Nothing wrong with that it's exciting to watch but because the editing style has become quicker ( not as many long takes ) the moves have become more complicated. Mabey not as Believable.
    I just hope in Bond 23 Bond gets a Henchman who looks like he can do him a lot of damage so we can get a great fight sequence. -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,612MI6 Agent
    Well-stated, my friend!
    To me Connery looked like he knew what he was doing,as did Lazenby. Moore had the "Old hollywood school" of fighting, Dalton looked awkward doing anything phyiscal ( running, fighting etc), so far Craig looks good in the fights,But in my opinion he has "The new Hollywood School" of fighting. In that nearly all movies have the same generic fighting style. Nothing wrong with that it's exciting to watch but because the editing style has become quicker ( not as many long takes ) the moves have become more complicated. Mabey not as Believable.
    I just hope in Bond 23 Bond gets a Henchman who looks like he can do him a lot of damage so we can get a great fight sequence. -{
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • dr. evan-gelistdr. evan-gelist SheffieldPosts: 398MI6 Agent
    For me Roger is my third favourite but he did have the best villains and locations aswell as some amazing stunts.
    "You're in the wrong business... leave it to the professionals!"
    James Bond- Licence To Kill
  • Jimmy BondJimmy Bond Posts: 323MI6 Agent
    He's fairly underrated as Bond, but he's also simply not one of the best ones. For better or for worse, he'll always be the "funny Bond" and a template for the non-threatening Bond. Not that he never was effective, but at least IMO, Dalton, Brosnan and Craig have all been better and built on the part in a way Moore wasn't allowed to. Cubby's Bond was the most like a superhero, and it showed.
  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 1,366MI6 Agent
    No.
  • Danvers NettlefoldDanvers Nettlefold Posts: 20MI6 Agent
    A 'rubbish' Bond? On the contrary. When the franchise needed a safe pair of hands, Mr Moore was the man for the job.

    While I still consider him rather miscast (as he himself would have been the first to admit), I appreciate his contribution and enjoy his performances. It was almost as though the Saint (and Moore was surely the definitive Simon Templar?) masqueraded as 007 throughout the '70s and into the '80s. As an actor, he wisely played to his strengths, which differed markedly from Connery's.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 4,269MI6 Agent
    It’s funny that, although he’s the one who possibly embodied James Bond the least, he’s the one who actually lived up to the spirit the most by doing so much work to try and save the world with his fantastic charity efforts!
  • JoshuaJoshua Posts: 1,023MI6 Agent
    Personally I liked almost all the Roger Moore James Bond films and thought he did a wonderful job.
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,414MI6 Agent
    Well-stated, my friend!
    To me Connery looked like he knew what he was doing,as did Lazenby. Moore had the "Old hollywood school" of fighting, Dalton looked awkward doing anything phyiscal ( running, fighting etc), so far Craig looks good in the fights,But in my opinion he has "The new Hollywood School" of fighting. In that nearly all movies have the same generic fighting style. Nothing wrong with that it's exciting to watch but because the editing style has become quicker ( not as many long takes ) the moves have become more complicated. Mabey not as Believable.
    I just hope in Bond 23 Bond gets a Henchman who looks like he can do him a lot of damage so we can get a great fight sequence. -{

    +1
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,414MI6 Agent
    I want to see him struggle more. We saw that in Spectre to some extent.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • eric7064eric7064 USAPosts: 343MI6 Agent
    Honestly imo yes. I'm in the camp of I would have loved Lazenby over Moore in the 70's.

    I enjoy many of RM's films. But hes the last person I think of when Bond comes to mind. He just does not fit my view of Bond. I respect what he did and hes an iconic Bond, but is 5th on my list by a wide margin.
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,414MI6 Agent
    eric7064 wrote:
    Honestly imo yes. I'm in the camp of I would have loved Lazenby over Moore in the 70's.

    I enjoy many of RM's films. But hes the last person I think of when Bond comes to mind. He just does not fit my view of Bond. I respect what he did and hes an iconic Bond, but is 5th on my list by a wide margin.

    Me to. There is a lot of love here for RM, but I feel it's the charming and self effacing man rather than his Bond. I dont recognise anything of the character in his films. I think fans are grateful that he kept the franchise alive and is a great ambassador. Please dont respond with that 'he could do tough ' or kicking that chaps car off a cliff schtick. I find his films unwatchable apart from LALD where he looks so much sharper than paunchy Sean.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,697MI6 Agent
    Personally, I loved the man, his movies and His Bond. -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
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