I never got that bit about his powers being dependent on his SuperVirginity
thats not in the comics, his powers are a result of either earths lighter gravity or earth's yellow sun
in the comics it was Wonder Woman who had to remain chaste if she was going to be super
I did like the SuperHypnotism at the end though, a vintage SilverAge style resolution to what otherwise would have been an irreversible plot development
I never got that bit about his powers being dependent on his SuperVirginity
thats not in the comics, his powers are a result of either earths lighter gravity or earth's yellow sun.
I think you'll like Donner's version of Superman II as this has been removed from the film. The only real boner is what happens at the end of the movie:
In order to undo all the damage that Zod, Ursa and Non wrought, Superman reverses time as he did at the end of the first movie to the point where they escaped from the Phantom Zone, the suggestion being that he deflects the missle and they remain trapped. Of course, this renders the entire movie pretty much moot since he could have done it at any time.
I would have preferred the movie end before this scene and let the chips fall where they may. Still, as I said, I really prefer this version to the Lester/Donner cut. The scenes with Brando as Jor-El alone are worth the price of admission.
In particular, the sequence where Jor-El sacrifices himself to restore Superman's powers ("Look at me Kal-El") is especially powerful and moving.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,991Quartermasters
It's a Superman Christmas on the way for my boys: Smallville Season 5, SR (the movie), SR (for PS2)...and now, perhaps SII (The Donner Cut)---as I don't yet own SII in any format!
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Personally, I'd go for the standalone version, unless you absolutely have to have every single version of each movie (I'm sure Mark Pillow would appreciate the gesture).
The Donner cut also includes a short documentary on the restoration process and a very nice running audio commentary with Richard Donner and Tom Mankiewicz that really doesn't pull any punches on the making of the films. Also of note is a little comment by Donner that he and Mankiewicz originally wanted to make a whole series of Superman movies with Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder. Ahh, what might have been...
It's a Superman Christmas on the way for my boys: Smallville Season 5, SR (the movie), SR (for PS2)...and now, perhaps SII (The Donner Cut)---as I don't yet own SII in any format!
Best Buy also had a neat little mini-bust of Brandon Routh as Clark Kent pulling off his shirt and revealing the Superman costume beneath. I did not resist the temptation and picked it up; it makes a nice companion to my Christian Bale Batman Begins mini-bust.
I liked Superman Returns and picked up the DVD, but IMHO Donner's Superman II runs circles around it. The story is top notch and Donner really pulled some great performances out of Reeve and Brando.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,991Quartermasters
Thanks for the tip, Tony {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Bought the Donner cut and I have to agree with Tony- just beautiful. Lester sucks.
I also bought a DVD Atom Man vs. Superman starring Kirk Alyn. I am a Reeves fan but Alyn looks alot more natural in the costume right down to the S- Curl. What tickled me was that they used animation in alot of the shots when Supes is flying but as he's taking off it looked much better than the springboard Reeves used to catapult himself out of the window.
If you're a fan, I recommend both.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I watched Richard Donner's Superman II cut last night and I was amazed at how much new material they had. It is like watching a new film. Much as I've always loved the original this is much sleeker and far more powerful. I can't believe I'm saying this about three people dressed in black PVC but the supervillains seemed much less camp without all the distracting comedy, especially in the small town sequence. The restoration of Marlon Brando gives the film much more weight and I love the new stuff like Lois throwing herself out of the building and Superman destroying the fortress of solitude. I'd forgotten how great Gene Hackman and Margot Kidder were. She really put the Lois in Superman Returns (can't remember what the name of the actress was) in perspective. And Christopher Reeve. With the possible exception of Sean Connery as James Bond, Reeve as Superman must be the most perfect piece of casting of all time.
My only quibble was that they changed the immortal line:
Glad you enjoyed it Arthur. For me, the Brando scenes alone were worth the price of admission and the Salkinds should be summarily thrown down a long and steep flight of stairs for remvoing those scenes in the first place. When viewed in conjunction with the first movie, Donner's 2 Superman movies really feel like one long story now.
Don't know if you listened to the audio commentary at all but there are a lot of great tidbits there. My favorite line is what Donner and Mankiewicz told Susannah York when she asked what the mother's contribution to Kal-El would be. I won't spoil it for you but you can hear it during the scene when Jor-El sacrifices himself for his son.
I couldn't find a stand-alone copy of this to buy so I used a alternative method to view it quickly without the option of the audio commentary. I will buy it now. I went into town on monday and they only had a giant box-set featuring all four films (five with the Donner cut) for £40+. I'm endlessly fascinated by Superman IV: The Quest For Peace* but I don't want to own it. I pretend III & IV don't exist in the same way that I pretend Alien 3 doesn't exist.
Finally saw Superman Returns last night and I have a mixed review. My first thought is, this movie was too long, a little editing could have put this picture in at the 2hr 10min mark rather than the bloated 2hr 25min. Brandon Routh was fine as Superman, he has the look and I thought he was fine in the romantic scenes. I liked Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane, she was feisty, but not annoying and I thought she was excellent in her scenes with Superman. I liked that the script had her boyfriend/significant other as a good person, not some jerk. I am not sure about the kid. I am not a Superman expert, but when did Superman have sex with Lois Lane? I must have missed something. Does Superman have a kid in the comics? Personally I see a lot of probems developing this character. Having said that, I thought learning that the kid was Superman's, was an interesting twist. In a smaller role, I thought Parker Posey was great as Kitty.
What I didn't like about the movie was the convoluted plot Lex Luther had, which I didn't think was ever explained clearly and the final climatic battle, where Superman defeats the bad guys, which never really occured. I also think having Superman having to be resurrected twice, was overdoing it.
Overall I enjoyed the movie, the romantic stuff worked for me, but Luther's plot never made sense to me. I also would have liked to seen a better climatic battle at the end.
Hey Barry, your views on Superman Returns are pretty much a microcosm of most people's opinions around here; although I have to disagree with you about Bosworth's Lois Lane; compared to Margot Kidder she was a non-entity. Kidder may not have been the prettiest girl at the dance, but she definitely had more presence.
Superman Returns is a loose sequel to 1978's Superman and 1980's Superman II movies. In the latter, Superman and Lois got it on at the Fortress of Solitude and that is where the baby probably came from. I didn't care for having Superman be a single daddy at all; as you say, it needlessly complicates any potential future movies and is a drastic departure from the established mythos. Some people around here ( cough*RogueAgent*cough ) were positively traumitized by it.
As for Lex Luthor's scheme, it is basically a souped up version of what he tried to pull off in the 1978 movie, another real estate scam, albeit on a much larger level. In fact, Superman Returns is in many ways a remake of the first movie as a lot of the scenes from the latter are clearly lifted from the former.
Now, if you really want to see a proper Superman adventure, I'd strongly urge to to check out the 1978 original (but get Richard Donner's director's cut) and then check out the just released Richard Donner cut of Superman II. Together they form a nice story arc of Superman's arrival and his first adventures. Though the effects may look dated by today's standards, the story is much tighter, the acting much better (even if Gene Hackman hams it up a bit too much as Luthor) and the scenes of Brando as Superman's father, especially in the restored Donner version of Superman II, are just fantastic.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I also recommend to those who actually read comics, to pick up the latest Action Comics arc written by Richard Donner. Just good.... B-)
Perhaps Singer could have used this as a reference if he wanted to hack the man's material...
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
DC Got Donner to write a story? I didn't know about that one; I'm way out of touch when it comes to comics these days. How about a quick summary.
Well in a nutshell, Superman intercepts a space pod that was zooming from space and onto a Metropolis crowd and its confines held a little boy believed to be from Krypton. Well Supes tries to protect the child, government gets involved, yada yada and at the end of one the books... I can't ruin it for you. Perhaps I may pm you the details.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
just got the Donner cut of SII top! what a shame he never got to finish it properly. Loved the look Brando gives Kidder as Clark goes into the booth you can almost hear him thinking "bi*ch"
theres an essay by science fiction author Larry Niven called Man of Steel Woman of Kleenex which posits that should Superman and Lois ever do the thang it would be physically impossible she would survive the experience let alone carry his child
theres an essay by science fiction author Larry Niven called Man of Steel Woman of Kleenex which posits that should Superman and Lois ever do the thang it would be physically impossible she would survive the experience let alone carry his child
So the fact that Superman is an extraterrestrial who has extraordinary powers and flies around in a cape is realistic, but not his having a baby with Lois? :v
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
theres an essay by science fiction author Larry Niven called Man of Steel Woman of Kleenex which posits that should Superman and Lois ever do the thang it would be physically impossible she would survive the experience let alone carry his child
So the fact that Superman is an extraterrestrial who has extraordinary powers and flies around in a cape is realistic, but not his having a baby with Lois? :v
There's a saying by noted sci-fi author Arthur C. Clarke that seems appropriate here: When an elderly distinguished scientist says something is possible, he's almost certainly right. When he says something is impossible, he's almost certainly wrong. :v
theres an essay by science fiction author Larry Niven called Man of Steel Woman of Kleenex which posits that should Superman and Lois ever do the thang it would be physically impossible she would survive the experience let alone carry his child
So the fact that Superman is an extraterrestrial who has extraordinary powers and flies around in a cape is realistic, but not his having a baby with Lois? :v
There's a saying by noted sci-fi author Arthur C. Clarke that seems appropriate here: When an elderly distinguished scientist says something is possible, he's almost certainly right. When he says something is impossible, he's almost certainly wrong. :v
Good point,Tony.Trying to apply actual science to Superman is interesting but ultimately pointless.Magic exists in Superman's universe and along with kryptonite,is one of his greatest weaknesses.
How does Superman compress his suit, shoes and his glasses into that secret pocket underneath his cape so well that there's never an awkward bulge?Does he zip it up or use some form of Kryptonian velcro to keep this pocket closed?Just how big is it?
Are there strange creases marking his clothes after Superman puts his suits back on?How does Superman manage to a keep a stray blue uniform sleeve from poking out from beneath one of his shirts when posing as Clark Kent?
That's only one of many mysteries about Superman that remain unanswered to this day.
Also,since Superman can hear cries for help coming from all over the globe--as well as every corner of Metropolis--and cannot save everyone,how does he keep from having a nervous breakdown,falling into a deep depression,going insane or killing himself?
Speaking of killing,since the movie Superman can change the course of time,what's to stop him from killing anyone he wants and then bringing them back to life?
Well said (as usual) WG. These things are works of fiction, best not to examine them too closely lest they fall apart before your eyes. My personal favorite piece of physics bending has to be Iron Man: how can he hide that bulky chest piece (which he must wear at all times or his heart will fail) under those snazzy fitted suits??? )
Speaking of killing,since the movie Superman can change the course of time,what's to stop him from killing anyone he wants and then bringing them back to life?
It loses its novelty after you've done it a few times. I know you're not the biggest fan of Donner's Superman movies, but I was wondering if you checked out his cut of Superman II yet. I'd be most interested to read your take on it.
Just watched the special features on the SR DVD. There's a segment that has Kevin Spacey driving around the studio in one of those golf cart thingy's, with a loudspeaker shouting 'Kill Superman.' He's even painted the side of it green to represent Kryptonite, and is dragging a superman toy on a chain behind him. Kind of pleases me that an Oscar winning actor would take the time to do something quite so daft.:D
Just watched the special features on the SR DVD. There's a segment that has Kevin Spacey driving around the studio in one of those golf cart thingy's, with a loudspeaker shouting 'Kill Superman.' He's even painted the side of it green to represent Kryptonite, and is dragging a superman toy on a chain behind him. Kind of pleases me that an Oscar winning actor would take the time to do something quite so daft.:D
I still haven't had a chance to check out the documentaries on that DVD; what did you think of the movie itself?
[I still haven't had a chance to check out the documentaries on that DVD; what did you think of the movie itself?
I liked the film, but there were one or two things that left me cold. Apart from the aircraft sequence there really wasn't that much excitement. Character stuff is great in these kind of movies, but it shouldn't be at the expense of action. There were moments when I thought I was watching a film called 'Superman's ex-girlfriend is a single mom.' However, Brandon Routh was quite good. Hopefully the next film will have a bit more to it. A different villain would be good as well. As long as its not Nuclear Man.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I know you're not the biggest fan of Donner's Superman movies, but I was wondering if you checked out his cut of Superman II yet. I'd be most interested to read your take on it.
I'm not sure I've ever said that I dislike Donner as a director, as much as I've been disappointed in the quality of his two Superman movies' screenplays.In all fairness,few directors can (or should)take responsibilty for every facet of the film they're involved with.According to Donner,he found himself in the awkward position of having to oversee a complete rewrite of what was an abysmal screenplay by the Newmans.Their take on the Man of Steel was apparently almost an all camp production closer in spirit to the "Batman" TV series and their own "It's a Bird...It's a Plane...It's Superman" musical.Tom Mankiwiecz actually rewrote everything,but couldn't get a "screenplay by" credit--which is why he's listed as the "Creative Consultant" instead.Mario Puzo gets a credit line but once the movie was out he acknowledged that he had done very little work on the script and understood that he'd been signed primarily because the Salkinds wanted a big name associated with the film at nearly every level.This is all old news of course.
So with the understanding that the two Superman films were practically being written as they were being filmed,I have nothing but the highest regard for what Donner and Mankiewicz came up with.Most of what they devised works, and of course,the foremost reason the film(s) were so successful is the outstanding performance Christopher Reeve provides.Lynn Stalmaster found Chris, and Donner took a chance on him that,IMO, paid off beyond all expectations.As just one example of his skill,Chris proves beyond question--to me,anyway-- that Superman could indeed believably pose as Clark Kent.It's all in the posture.With Reeve's Kent,Harold Lloyd lives again.The late Gene Siskel once suggested that Christopher Reeve's impressive turn as Superman/Clark Kent was at least worthy of an Academy Award nomination,and I agree.
I found what editor Michael Thau did with the Superman II footage Donner had shot fascinating.In essence,it's the same story Richard Lester completed filming but with some very noticable differences.Many of the changes are subtle,with a bit less emphasis on comedy--although there are laughs.It's very interesting to see Brando play such a large role this time around.It's a great editing job because the bigger Jor-El sequences look perfectly suited to the movie,as opposed to add-ons.
I'll confess that I liked Gene Hackman's turn as Luthor this time around.It's really no different from what came before but I found it more entertaining--perhaps because he played off of the more "serious" Kryptonian bad guys,most notably Terence Stamp's Zod.Hackman's not DC's Luthor--he has the same name and he's a criminal who uses his vast scientific prowess for evil,but that's all.He's not as cunning or as dangerous(despite finding the kryptonite and trying to kill Superman)as his comic book counterpart.His supposed ambition is surprisingly limited for a genius.He thinks small.Like most fanboys, I've yet to see a completely convincing rendition of Luthor in live action(although I give high marks to John Shea's version in "Lois & Clark" and the highest marks to the Luthor in the Paul Dini/Bruce Timm animated Superman TV series).But that's life,and all movies are compromises-those adapting their contents from another medium,usually moreso.
It was most instructive seeing Reeve and Margot Kidder's screentest inserted into the body of the movie.Reeve's appearance was dramatically different(no pun intended),from how he came to look within the actual movies themselves.But it's nevertheless easy to understand why he was selected to play the Man of Steel.Margot changed noticably,too.In interviews made during the 80s,she pointed out that between Superman I and Superman II she'd had extensive dental work done,which slightly altered her face.And additionally,her hair color changed--from brown,to auburn, to jet black.It's all there to see,and in the Donner cut sometimes from one moment to the next within the same scene.:)Despite this Kidder's performance holds up very well--you really believe that Lois loves Superman,in both of his identities.
So overall,the Donner cut of Superman II is a good movie.That said,I also like some of what Richard Lester did with Superman II.I don't care for the overt humor Lester introduced, but in fairness,Donner also employs this--especially in the scene with the fisherman giving his coffee cup a triple take as he watched the newly arrived Kryptonians.
I prefer the "history of Superman" montage Lester's editor provides for the Superman II opening titles to what Michael Thau came up with.And I much prefer the ending Lester's version of Superman II has,with Superman returning the American flag to the White House and promising the President that he'll never let him down again.
I understand Donner seems to despise both Lester and what Lester provided, but Donner's climax for Superman II is--IMO--absolutely terrible.It's an ending that really shouldn't have been used for Superman I and repeating it for Superman II suggests 2 things to me:
1)Donner felt that the ending he provided for his version of Superman II just had to differ from Lester's, regardless of whether it serves the story,
Or...
2)more likely,this was the only ending editor Michael Thau could create from the remaining non-Lester footage.Either way,it's a cop-out and a HUGE disappointment to me.
But I'm definitely glad to see that the alternate version of this film is finally available.
Thanks for the post WG; very interesting read and I agree with you pretty much down the line.
The ending of Donner's Superman II was something of a disappointment to me as well; even if things had gone as he had originally planned and Superman I ended in a cliffhanger, ending Part II by basically undoing everything that transpired was very weak and raises too many troubling questions of continuity: are Zod and Co. still out there somewhere waitng to be freed? Is Luthor back in prison? Are the Fortress and Jor-El's essence restored? Why does Clark need to beat up the bully at the diner? It certainly negates all the sacrifices the characters made during the movie and it probably would have been better to simply end the movie with Lois knowing who Superman is, everybody returning to work the next day, and letting the chips fall where they may.
But as you say, it's great that all that wonderful lost footage is finally brought out into the light for all to enjoy.
There's an article over at IGN regarding another possible Superman movie. Given Singer's departure to direct a movie for MGM, there are rumors that the next Superman movie may be scrapped in favor of having the character appear in the JLA movie instead. Have a read:
Comments
thats not in the comics, his powers are a result of either earths lighter gravity or earth's yellow sun
in the comics it was Wonder Woman who had to remain chaste if she was going to be super
I did like the SuperHypnotism at the end though, a vintage SilverAge style resolution to what otherwise would have been an irreversible plot development
I think you'll like Donner's version of Superman II as this has been removed from the film. The only real boner is what happens at the end of the movie:
I would have preferred the movie end before this scene and let the chips fall where they may. Still, as I said, I really prefer this version to the Lester/Donner cut. The scenes with Brando as Jor-El alone are worth the price of admission.
Below is an article about the battle to put Superman back on the big screen. It's a bit long but interesting to skim through.
http://www.agonybooth.com/forum/topic2730.htm
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
As a longtime Star Trek fan, I love that website's name (agonybooth). On my side of the pond, Donner's Superman is available as a standalone DVD:
http://www.amazon.com/Superman-II-Richard-Donner-Cut/dp/B000IJ79WU/sr=1-1/qid=1165280686/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-6121967-9619852?ie=UTF8&s=dvd
or as part of a mammoth 14 disc ultimate edition boxed set:
http://www.amazon.com/Superman-Ultimate-Collectors-Christopher-Reeve/dp/B000J10ERE/sr=1-1/qid=1165280574/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-6121967-9619852?ie=UTF8&s=dvd
Personally, I'd go for the standalone version, unless you absolutely have to have every single version of each movie (I'm sure Mark Pillow would appreciate the gesture).
The Donner cut also includes a short documentary on the restoration process and a very nice running audio commentary with Richard Donner and Tom Mankiewicz that really doesn't pull any punches on the making of the films. Also of note is a little comment by Donner that he and Mankiewicz originally wanted to make a whole series of Superman movies with Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder. Ahh, what might have been...
Best Buy also had a neat little mini-bust of Brandon Routh as Clark Kent pulling off his shirt and revealing the Superman costume beneath. I did not resist the temptation and picked it up; it makes a nice companion to my Christian Bale Batman Begins mini-bust.
I liked Superman Returns and picked up the DVD, but IMHO Donner's Superman II runs circles around it. The story is top notch and Donner really pulled some great performances out of Reeve and Brando.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
My pleasure Loeff. -{
I also bought a DVD Atom Man vs. Superman starring Kirk Alyn. I am a Reeves fan but Alyn looks alot more natural in the costume right down to the S- Curl. What tickled me was that they used animation in alot of the shots when Supes is flying but as he's taking off it looked much better than the springboard Reeves used to catapult himself out of the window.
If you're a fan, I recommend both.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
My only quibble was that they changed the immortal line:
"General Zod. Would you care to step outside?"
Don't know if you listened to the audio commentary at all but there are a lot of great tidbits there. My favorite line is what Donner and Mankiewicz told Susannah York when she asked what the mother's contribution to Kal-El would be. I won't spoil it for you but you can hear it during the scene when Jor-El sacrifices himself for his son.
*
http://www.agonybooth.com/superman_4/default.asp?Page=2
What I didn't like about the movie was the convoluted plot Lex Luther had, which I didn't think was ever explained clearly and the final climatic battle, where Superman defeats the bad guys, which never really occured. I also think having Superman having to be resurrected twice, was overdoing it.
Overall I enjoyed the movie, the romantic stuff worked for me, but Luther's plot never made sense to me. I also would have liked to seen a better climatic battle at the end.
Superman Returns is a loose sequel to 1978's Superman and 1980's Superman II movies. In the latter, Superman and Lois got it on at the Fortress of Solitude and that is where the baby probably came from. I didn't care for having Superman be a single daddy at all; as you say, it needlessly complicates any potential future movies and is a drastic departure from the established mythos. Some people around here ( cough*RogueAgent*cough
As for Lex Luthor's scheme, it is basically a souped up version of what he tried to pull off in the 1978 movie, another real estate scam, albeit on a much larger level. In fact, Superman Returns is in many ways a remake of the first movie as a lot of the scenes from the latter are clearly lifted from the former.
Now, if you really want to see a proper Superman adventure, I'd strongly urge to to check out the 1978 original (but get Richard Donner's director's cut) and then check out the just released Richard Donner cut of Superman II. Together they form a nice story arc of Superman's arrival and his first adventures. Though the effects may look dated by today's standards, the story is much tighter, the acting much better (even if Gene Hackman hams it up a bit too much as Luthor) and the scenes of Brando as Superman's father, especially in the restored Donner version of Superman II, are just fantastic.
Perhaps Singer could have used this as a reference if he wanted to hack the man's material...
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
DC Got Donner to write a story? I didn't know about that one; I'm way out of touch when it comes to comics these days. How about a quick summary.
Well in a nutshell, Superman intercepts a space pod that was zooming from space and onto a Metropolis crowd and its confines held a little boy believed to be from Krypton. Well Supes tries to protect the child, government gets involved, yada yada and at the end of one the books... I can't ruin it for you. Perhaps I may pm you the details.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
www.scottacademymartialarts.co.uk
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
There's a saying by noted sci-fi author Arthur C. Clarke that seems appropriate here: When an elderly distinguished scientist says something is possible, he's almost certainly right. When he says something is impossible, he's almost certainly wrong.
Good point,Tony.Trying to apply actual science to Superman is interesting but ultimately pointless.Magic exists in Superman's universe and along with kryptonite,is one of his greatest weaknesses.
How does Superman compress his suit, shoes and his glasses into that secret pocket underneath his cape so well that there's never an awkward bulge?Does he zip it up or use some form of Kryptonian velcro to keep this pocket closed?Just how big is it?
Are there strange creases marking his clothes after Superman puts his suits back on?How does Superman manage to a keep a stray blue uniform sleeve from poking out from beneath one of his shirts when posing as Clark Kent?
That's only one of many mysteries about Superman that remain unanswered to this day.
Also,since Superman can hear cries for help coming from all over the globe--as well as every corner of Metropolis--and cannot save everyone,how does he keep from having a nervous breakdown,falling into a deep depression,going insane or killing himself?
Speaking of killing,since the movie Superman can change the course of time,what's to stop him from killing anyone he wants and then bringing them back to life?
It loses its novelty after you've done it a few times.
I still haven't had a chance to check out the documentaries on that DVD; what did you think of the movie itself?
I liked the film, but there were one or two things that left me cold. Apart from the aircraft sequence there really wasn't that much excitement. Character stuff is great in these kind of movies, but it shouldn't be at the expense of action. There were moments when I thought I was watching a film called 'Superman's ex-girlfriend is a single mom.' However, Brandon Routh was quite good. Hopefully the next film will have a bit more to it. A different villain would be good as well. As long as its not Nuclear Man.
{[] Good observation...
{[] Great observation...
There were moments when I thought I was watching a film called 'Superman's ex-girlfriend is a single mom'.
{[] {[] {[]
Starring Meredith Baxter Birney and Nancy McKeon...Saturday...only on Lifetime...
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I'm not sure I've ever said that I dislike Donner as a director, as much as I've been disappointed in the quality of his two Superman movies' screenplays.In all fairness,few directors can (or should)take responsibilty for every facet of the film they're involved with.According to Donner,he found himself in the awkward position of having to oversee a complete rewrite of what was an abysmal screenplay by the Newmans.Their take on the Man of Steel was apparently almost an all camp production closer in spirit to the "Batman" TV series and their own "It's a Bird...It's a Plane...It's Superman" musical.Tom Mankiwiecz actually rewrote everything,but couldn't get a "screenplay by" credit--which is why he's listed as the "Creative Consultant" instead.Mario Puzo gets a credit line but once the movie was out he acknowledged that he had done very little work on the script and understood that he'd been signed primarily because the Salkinds wanted a big name associated with the film at nearly every level.This is all old news of course.
So with the understanding that the two Superman films were practically being written as they were being filmed,I have nothing but the highest regard for what Donner and Mankiewicz came up with.Most of what they devised works, and of course,the foremost reason the film(s) were so successful is the outstanding performance Christopher Reeve provides.Lynn Stalmaster found Chris, and Donner took a chance on him that,IMO, paid off beyond all expectations.As just one example of his skill,Chris proves beyond question--to me,anyway-- that Superman could indeed believably pose as Clark Kent.It's all in the posture.With Reeve's Kent,Harold Lloyd lives again.The late Gene Siskel once suggested that Christopher Reeve's impressive turn as Superman/Clark Kent was at least worthy of an Academy Award nomination,and I agree.
I found what editor Michael Thau did with the Superman II footage Donner had shot fascinating.In essence,it's the same story Richard Lester completed filming but with some very noticable differences.Many of the changes are subtle,with a bit less emphasis on comedy--although there are laughs.It's very interesting to see Brando play such a large role this time around.It's a great editing job because the bigger Jor-El sequences look perfectly suited to the movie,as opposed to add-ons.
I'll confess that I liked Gene Hackman's turn as Luthor this time around.It's really no different from what came before but I found it more entertaining--perhaps because he played off of the more "serious" Kryptonian bad guys,most notably Terence Stamp's Zod.Hackman's not DC's Luthor--he has the same name and he's a criminal who uses his vast scientific prowess for evil,but that's all.He's not as cunning or as dangerous(despite finding the kryptonite and trying to kill Superman)as his comic book counterpart.His supposed ambition is surprisingly limited for a genius.He thinks small.Like most fanboys, I've yet to see a completely convincing rendition of Luthor in live action(although I give high marks to John Shea's version in "Lois & Clark" and the highest marks to the Luthor in the Paul Dini/Bruce Timm animated Superman TV series).But that's life,and all movies are compromises-those adapting their contents from another medium,usually moreso.
It was most instructive seeing Reeve and Margot Kidder's screentest inserted into the body of the movie.Reeve's appearance was dramatically different(no pun intended),from how he came to look within the actual movies themselves.But it's nevertheless easy to understand why he was selected to play the Man of Steel.Margot changed noticably,too.In interviews made during the 80s,she pointed out that between Superman I and Superman II she'd had extensive dental work done,which slightly altered her face.And additionally,her hair color changed--from brown,to auburn, to jet black.It's all there to see,and in the Donner cut sometimes from one moment to the next within the same scene.:)Despite this Kidder's performance holds up very well--you really believe that Lois loves Superman,in both of his identities.
So overall,the Donner cut of Superman II is a good movie.That said,I also like some of what Richard Lester did with Superman II.I don't care for the overt humor Lester introduced, but in fairness,Donner also employs this--especially in the scene with the fisherman giving his coffee cup a triple take as he watched the newly arrived Kryptonians.
I prefer the "history of Superman" montage Lester's editor provides for the Superman II opening titles to what Michael Thau came up with.And I much prefer the ending Lester's version of Superman II has,with Superman returning the American flag to the White House and promising the President that he'll never let him down again.
I understand Donner seems to despise both Lester and what Lester provided, but Donner's climax for Superman II is--IMO--absolutely terrible.It's an ending that really shouldn't have been used for Superman I and repeating it for Superman II suggests 2 things to me:
1)Donner felt that the ending he provided for his version of Superman II just had to differ from Lester's, regardless of whether it serves the story,
Or...
2)more likely,this was the only ending editor Michael Thau could create from the remaining non-Lester footage.Either way,it's a cop-out and a HUGE disappointment to me.
But I'm definitely glad to see that the alternate version of this film is finally available.
The ending of Donner's Superman II was something of a disappointment to me as well; even if things had gone as he had originally planned and Superman I ended in a cliffhanger, ending Part II by basically undoing everything that transpired was very weak and raises too many troubling questions of continuity: are Zod and Co. still out there somewhere waitng to be freed? Is Luthor back in prison? Are the Fortress and Jor-El's essence restored? Why does Clark need to beat up the bully at the diner? It certainly negates all the sacrifices the characters made during the movie and it probably would have been better to simply end the movie with Lois knowing who Superman is, everybody returning to work the next day, and letting the chips fall where they may.
But as you say, it's great that all that wonderful lost footage is finally brought out into the light for all to enjoy.
http://movies.ign.com/articles/773/773710p1.html