It's consistent with Fleming, as you said above- and I'm all for that! (And I think that fits with my Bond party leanings.)
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
Without a doubt -{
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Well, well. I still feel a bit sorry for poor James.
I'll suggest yet another title instead of thinking of 007's torture-heavy working life.
I know it's the title of a documentary about Sting, and directed by Micael Apted. But I still think "Bring on the night" is perfectly Bondian.
I also thought "Naked Eye" was great, but far too many films have too simular titles.
"Trail of Death" on the other hand, Bond can have all to himself. A bit too typical perhaps, "death" and so on?
I think it is too typical. Regarding the title for Bond 22, I have three requests:
1)the title for Bond 22 does not feature the words 'death', 'gold' or a body part (such as Goldfinger and Goldeneye.)
2)It be a Fleming title. Both of the only two Bond titles which had absolutely nothing to do with Fleming (TND and DAD) were IMO the two worst titles of the entire series. That's not to say that with a Fleming title, the producers can do no wrong (I didn't particularly like AVTAK and TLD), but it seems to me that without a Fleming title (or one connected to Fleming in some way), they can do no right.
3)I don't really mind titles which sound great but have nothing to do with the plot (such as LALD) but I hate titles which are inserted into the film simply to provide a link. DAD and AVTAK were perfect examples of this. If the producers, therefore, comeup with a great title which has nothing to do with the film, just leave it at that. Don't insert it into the dialogue.
Oh, and could the Producers tell us what the title is already. We already know the title for the next Superman film, and that may not even be made. )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
I've got a very strong intuition that it won't be a Fleming title this time round...though I'd love to be wrong and see Risico get the nod...
I actually liked both AVTAK and TLD as titles---the latter, in particular.
Still hoping for a handful of chapter titles: The Death Collector, Blood and Thunder, Hell's Delight...My current offbeat favourite chapter title would sound great coming from Vesper, in her video file message to Bond, which she recorded while he was asleep:
"Sleep Well, My Darling" :007)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I posted this a little while back on the Literature forum, in a reponse to JetSetWilly's request to have no more "No more Kill/Die/Live titles, please" :
HEAR, HEAR!!
"Never Say It's Time to Live to Kill or Die"... sheesh. AND NO MORE GOLD!
Shoehorning 'A View to a Kill' into Walken's dialogue was EXTREMELY ham-handed.
As far as original, Fleming-sounding Bond titles go... I gotta give props to "Never Say Never Again". I didn't like the movie, but the title is cool and sounds like a snippet of writing or dialogue snatched up, which is what Fleming's titles usually were.
Try as I might, I can't think of anything that doesn't sound outright cheesy. However, there's another viable source for good Bond titles: chapter titles!
I just picked up You Only Live Twice and flipped it open... chapter title - The Death Collector. Shatterhand would be a good one too...
A few from other books: Zero Minus, the Quickness of the Hand, Rough Justice, The Silver Phantom, The Undertaker's Wind, etc.
I actually agree words lie death, gold, forever etc
should be avoided. "Trail of death" was almost an accident 8-)
There some good chapter titles, but there is a limit to how many good titles there are left in Flemmings works. Sooner or later they have to get back to inventing them.
I'm glad to see the new title poll, but I was dissapointed to see there were so few options.
To limit the poll to Flemming titles is all well and good, but there still are some nice titles that are AWOL. What happened to "A Whisper of Hate" and "The Prewailing Wind"? There are perhaps even more titles that originate from Flemming that are missing from the poll.
Sweepy the CatHalifax, West Yorkshire, EnglaPosts: 986MI6 Agent
I think DC should have his own trilogy of bond films re-introducing SPECTRE and gradually bringing back old icons of the bond series (Miss Moneypenny, Q, Gadgets, Maurice Binder style nudes in the title sequences, huge enemy bases etc.)
From what I (mis)understand the fake country of Nambuto (we saw the embassy in CR) will be the base country of then new, evil organisation.
I think they should go easy on the gadgets and huge bases, but other than that we may very well get our wishes.
I'd like "Willing to Die" as a title. It ties in to CR as part of the lyrics, 007 is fully aware that his life expectancy is shortened by the work he does, and revenge is a risky business but he accepts that so to do the job he is willing not only to kill, but willing to die. Also it can refer to the organisation that took Vesper's life, since ****ing Bond off means you better be willing to die when he comes after you:007).
Whatever it is, I think I agree with the general consensus when I say that the bottom line is that it needs to be something from Fleming. Let's continue with this renewal of the franchise and not falter away from Fleming after the success of CR.
Considering that death is at least a part of what Bond is about, I don't see any reason to not be upfront with it in the title. We couldn't very well have Bond, James Bond, licenced to beat you up very badly, but not kill you, but I'm nasty I'm warning you. )
I do absolutely love the return of the Fleming touch, it's wonderful. :007)
Considering that death is at least a part of what Bond is about, I don't see any reason to not be upfront with it in the title.
I see where you're coming from, but we've already had several titles playing on life and death- most recently "Tomorrow Never Dies" and "Die Another Day" (neither of which are from Fleming).
Naming a Bond adventure is a tricky thing and even Fleming had some trouble in coming up with the right choice of words. Some rejects and alternates include, in no particular order:
"Mondays Are Hell", "Wide Of The Mark", "The Infernal Machine", "The Inhuman Element", "Too Hot To Handle", "Hell Is Here"- MOONRAKER.
"The Undertaker's Wind"- LIVE AND LET DIE
"The Belles Of Hell"- ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE
"Trigger Finger", "Berlin Escape"- THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS
"Longitude 78 West", "James Bond Of The Secret Service"- THUNDERBALL (not to mention "Warhead" etc)
"The Rough With The Smooth", "Man's Work", "Death Leaves An Echo"- FOR YOUR EYES ONLY
"Risky Business"- RISICO
"The Deadly Gamble", "The Double-0 Agent", "You Asked For It"- CASINO ROYALE
Not all of these were Fleming's ideas- some are from publishers, agents, etc.
Slightly OT but was it Moonraker where Bond thinks he sees the sign flashing "Hell is here" I always found that passage chilling and a wonderful foreshadowing, but I don't recall the book. Yes, I know, you'll have me shot for that.
About the use of die becoming redundant I understand. Although Live and Let Die is one of my favoured titles, and the song as well.
Reminds me of Craig..you gotta give the other fella hell :007)
Slightly OT but was it Moonraker where Bond thinks he sees the sign flashing "Hell is here" I always found that passage chilling and a wonderful foreshadowing, but I don't recall the book. Yes, I know, you'll have me shot for that.
Yes, it's in "Moonraker" alright. No shooting, but you are sentenced to read the book again and memorise it! )
(can hear M saying it was a mistake to promote me to the 00 section)
And isn't the sign Summer Shell is here? I'm beginning to rebuy the collection, so I will be reading Moonraker again
Concerning Bond 22, I wondered just how much secrets Vesper was forced to give away to keep the boyfriend alive. In the novel Bond is reflecting how much damage she's done to the organisation. I'd like not only to see him have to deal with Vesper again via the Internet or some delayed vid message on his cell, but probe just how deep the enemy had reached into MI6. Perhaps we could find out more about her. I'd love to see the boyfriend be if not the top enemy, then at least an exec, not a bottom rung individual as I'm guessing Mr. White is.
I like the relationship between Bond and M as it is now. Like Craig Daniel says, M keeps 007 alive. I wonder how much of a real mother figure she is to him, considering he is an orphan. I saw in that scene where she tells him off his veiled, but obvious hurt, the sarcastic half monk half hitman. (and how the heck DID he break into her house and get her password? ?:) ) It looked like she lived in an exclusive apartment building, top of the line security, so how did he get in? I know, he's Bond. :007) I'd love to see that continued, that frustration on her part, plus the obvious affection she has for him, and he for her, a certain respect.
I'd like the elements of Octopussy woven in, Bond going to confront a man who killed a person Bond had been attached to after his parents died, and if I recall right, had taught him to ski. Oberhauser, was it? God, it's been a long time since I've read these books.
My feeling always has been that Connery created a Bond who had some resemblance to the Fleming Bond , the love of danger, the coldbloodedness. After a while, and I'm preaching to the choir here I know, it became almost a Gerry Anderson puppet business. I never liked Pierce, I'm afraid. I did like Dalton and at times I liked Moore very much.
Craig has resurrected the human Bond, who as one book said knows in his more depressed hours he will die fairly young. Which Craig as Bond points out, the 00 section life expectancy isn't promising.
If there is to be a Q, maybe the direction to go in is not the banter, but perhaps an undertone of "You sit on your buttocks and come up with all these toys, but you don't know what it's really like out there so don't use that tone on me"
Maybe the head of this organisation Vesper was indebted to could be a woman?
It took me a while to accept the shower scene. I recall at first viewing mentally yelling at him, get out your gun! Don't just walk in there! ) Then the both amazing and yet sensual scene, so evocative of here is a man who has just killed, not easily, but has killed, and yet he sees her with HER armour down, obviously she hadn't ever been exposed to the violence involved, even though she needles him about it. I absolutely loved it, and I do hope they continue on that path, and listening to Craig say that Bond will still be raw, gives me hope they will.
If you took all the Bond elements out of that film it would still be a classic film to be repeatedly watched, and that's the essence of the film and Craig and Eva's performances. I write as a hobby, and I really appreciated Craig's take on Bond, to do it all again, to flesh (and what flesh ) him out. he's rediscovered this complex, and dangerous yet all too human character, Bond, James Bond. :007) -{
I am certain Bond 22 is going to knock our expensive bespoke socks off. -{
Those are some great insights, Lady A. If Bond 22 is indeed a direct follow-up to CR, then these are some excellent ideas to weave into the story.
I like the idea of the boyfriend being involved in the organization. Wouldn't it be interesting if he becomes a recuring nemesis for Bond like Blofeld? It certainly would ad some depth to Bond's desire for justice. My hope is that the Vesper angle would be dropped completely, though. Fleming never touched on it again, and left it to the reader as to whether it was still smoldering under the surface or if indeed Bond had shut that part of himself of altogether
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,990Quartermasters
I'd like the elements of Octopussy woven in, Bond going to confront a man who killed a person Bond had been attached to after his parents died, and if I recall right, had taught him to ski. Oberhauser, was it? God, it's been a long time since I've read these books.
I've been hoping for Oberhauser to show up in #22, myself B-)
Craig has resurrected the human Bond, who as one book said knows in his more depressed hours he will die fairly young. Which Craig as Bond points out, the 00 section life expectancy isn't promising.
While your entire post is excellent, this is my own personal favourite bit
If you took all the Bond elements out of that film it would still be a classic film to be repeatedly watched, and that's the essence of the film and Craig and Eva's performances.
He's rediscovered this complex, and dangerous yet all too human character, Bond, James Bond. :007) -{
I am certain Bond 22 is going to knock our expensive bespoke socks off. -{
I don't know if I've welcomed you to AJB, yet, but...welcome to AJB {[] I share your optimism, re: Bond's immediate future...as long as various strikes and work stoppages don't succeed where the villains always fail
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Comments
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I'll suggest yet another title instead of thinking of 007's torture-heavy working life.
I know it's the title of a documentary about Sting, and directed by Micael Apted. But I still think "Bring on the night" is perfectly Bondian.
I also thought "Naked Eye" was great, but far too many films have too simular titles.
1)the title for Bond 22 does not feature the words 'death', 'gold' or a body part (such as Goldfinger and Goldeneye.)
2)It be a Fleming title. Both of the only two Bond titles which had absolutely nothing to do with Fleming (TND and DAD) were IMO the two worst titles of the entire series. That's not to say that with a Fleming title, the producers can do no wrong (I didn't particularly like AVTAK and TLD), but it seems to me that without a Fleming title (or one connected to Fleming in some way), they can do no right.
3)I don't really mind titles which sound great but have nothing to do with the plot (such as LALD) but I hate titles which are inserted into the film simply to provide a link. DAD and AVTAK were perfect examples of this. If the producers, therefore, comeup with a great title which has nothing to do with the film, just leave it at that. Don't insert it into the dialogue.
Oh, and could the Producers tell us what the title is already. We already know the title for the next Superman film, and that may not even be made.
I actually liked both AVTAK and TLD as titles---the latter, in particular.
Still hoping for a handful of chapter titles: The Death Collector, Blood and Thunder, Hell's Delight...My current offbeat favourite chapter title would sound great coming from Vesper, in her video file message to Bond, which she recorded while he was asleep:
"Sleep Well, My Darling" :007)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
HEAR, HEAR!!
"Never Say It's Time to Live to Kill or Die"... sheesh. AND NO MORE GOLD!
Shoehorning 'A View to a Kill' into Walken's dialogue was EXTREMELY ham-handed.
As far as original, Fleming-sounding Bond titles go... I gotta give props to "Never Say Never Again". I didn't like the movie, but the title is cool and sounds like a snippet of writing or dialogue snatched up, which is what Fleming's titles usually were.
Try as I might, I can't think of anything that doesn't sound outright cheesy. However, there's another viable source for good Bond titles: chapter titles!
I just picked up You Only Live Twice and flipped it open... chapter title - The Death Collector. Shatterhand would be a good one too...
A few from other books: Zero Minus, the Quickness of the Hand, Rough Justice, The Silver Phantom, The Undertaker's Wind, etc.
should be avoided. "Trail of death" was almost an accident 8-)
There some good chapter titles, but there is a limit to how many good titles there are left in Flemmings works. Sooner or later they have to get back to inventing them.
Sooo glad someone else thinks Risico is a good title.
For years I've wondered why they've ignored this one in favour of made-up stuff (usually with Die or Kill in there)
Dave
...followed by The Diamond Smugglers, no doubt.
There's always Fleming's State Of Excitement- unpublished and unfilmable (though that's never stopped them before), but not the worst title ever.
To limit the poll to Flemming titles is all well and good, but there still are some nice titles that are AWOL. What happened to "A Whisper of Hate" and "The Prewailing Wind"? There are perhaps even more titles that originate from Flemming that are missing from the poll.
I think they should go easy on the gadgets and huge bases, but other than that we may very well get our wishes.
As covered elsewhere, please no "Die", "Death", "Live", "Living" etc in the title!
(Unless it's a Fleming quote, of course...)
I do absolutely love the return of the Fleming touch, it's wonderful. :007)
I see where you're coming from, but we've already had several titles playing on life and death- most recently "Tomorrow Never Dies" and "Die Another Day" (neither of which are from Fleming).
Naming a Bond adventure is a tricky thing and even Fleming had some trouble in coming up with the right choice of words. Some rejects and alternates include, in no particular order:
"Mondays Are Hell", "Wide Of The Mark", "The Infernal Machine", "The Inhuman Element", "Too Hot To Handle", "Hell Is Here"- MOONRAKER.
"The Undertaker's Wind"- LIVE AND LET DIE
"The Belles Of Hell"- ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE
"Trigger Finger", "Berlin Escape"- THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS
"Longitude 78 West", "James Bond Of The Secret Service"- THUNDERBALL (not to mention "Warhead" etc)
"The Rough With The Smooth", "Man's Work", "Death Leaves An Echo"- FOR YOUR EYES ONLY
"Risky Business"- RISICO
"The Deadly Gamble", "The Double-0 Agent", "You Asked For It"- CASINO ROYALE
Not all of these were Fleming's ideas- some are from publishers, agents, etc.
Well this film stinks, doesn't it?
About the use of die becoming redundant I understand. Although Live and Let Die is one of my favoured titles, and the song as well.
Reminds me of Craig..you gotta give the other fella hell :007)
Yes, it's in "Moonraker" alright. No shooting, but you are sentenced to read the book again and memorise it!
Could work if Craig is in the US... you don't get that sign here in the UK anymore...
Roger Moore 1927-2017
(can hear M saying it was a mistake to promote me to the 00 section)
And isn't the sign Summer Shell is here? I'm beginning to rebuy the collection, so I will be reading Moonraker again
Concerning Bond 22, I wondered just how much secrets Vesper was forced to give away to keep the boyfriend alive. In the novel Bond is reflecting how much damage she's done to the organisation. I'd like not only to see him have to deal with Vesper again via the Internet or some delayed vid message on his cell, but probe just how deep the enemy had reached into MI6. Perhaps we could find out more about her. I'd love to see the boyfriend be if not the top enemy, then at least an exec, not a bottom rung individual as I'm guessing Mr. White is.
I like the relationship between Bond and M as it is now. Like Craig Daniel says, M keeps 007 alive. I wonder how much of a real mother figure she is to him, considering he is an orphan. I saw in that scene where she tells him off his veiled, but obvious hurt, the sarcastic half monk half hitman. (and how the heck DID he break into her house and get her password? ?:) ) It looked like she lived in an exclusive apartment building, top of the line security, so how did he get in? I know, he's Bond. :007) I'd love to see that continued, that frustration on her part, plus the obvious affection she has for him, and he for her, a certain respect.
I'd like the elements of Octopussy woven in, Bond going to confront a man who killed a person Bond had been attached to after his parents died, and if I recall right, had taught him to ski. Oberhauser, was it? God, it's been a long time since I've read these books.
My feeling always has been that Connery created a Bond who had some resemblance to the Fleming Bond , the love of danger, the coldbloodedness. After a while, and I'm preaching to the choir here I know, it became almost a Gerry Anderson puppet business. I never liked Pierce, I'm afraid. I did like Dalton and at times I liked Moore very much.
Craig has resurrected the human Bond, who as one book said knows in his more depressed hours he will die fairly young. Which Craig as Bond points out, the 00 section life expectancy isn't promising.
If there is to be a Q, maybe the direction to go in is not the banter, but perhaps an undertone of "You sit on your buttocks and come up with all these toys, but you don't know what it's really like out there so don't use that tone on me"
Maybe the head of this organisation Vesper was indebted to could be a woman?
It took me a while to accept the shower scene. I recall at first viewing mentally yelling at him, get out your gun! Don't just walk in there!
If you took all the Bond elements out of that film it would still be a classic film to be repeatedly watched, and that's the essence of the film and Craig and Eva's performances. I write as a hobby, and I really appreciated Craig's take on Bond, to do it all again, to flesh (and what flesh
I am certain Bond 22 is going to knock our expensive bespoke socks off. -{
I like the idea of the boyfriend being involved in the organization. Wouldn't it be interesting if he becomes a recuring nemesis for Bond like Blofeld? It certainly would ad some depth to Bond's desire for justice. My hope is that the Vesper angle would be dropped completely, though. Fleming never touched on it again, and left it to the reader as to whether it was still smoldering under the surface or if indeed Bond had shut that part of himself of altogether
I've been hoping for Oberhauser to show up in #22, myself B-)
While your entire post is excellent, this is my own personal favourite bit
That would be very cool.
Absolutely right.
I don't know if I've welcomed you to AJB, yet, but...welcome to AJB {[] I share your optimism, re: Bond's immediate future...as long as various strikes and work stoppages don't succeed where the villains always fail
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM