Why can't Americans be Bond girls?

Nicko1234Nicko1234 Posts: 74MI6 Agent
in The James Bond Films
By that I mean convincing Bond girls.

Doubtless somebody will come up with examples to disprove this but it seems to me that everytime an American is hired she is godawful.

Halle Berry - Looked like a Teletubby in her swimming costume as one reviewer said and not a popular character.
Denise Richards - No class or acting talent.
Tanya Roberts - Very beautiful but was more at home in her soft-porn films.
Lois Chiles - Forgettable performance and not as beautiful as many other actresses from the series.

Carey Lowell was ok I suppose but overall why are they so inferior to the actresses from other countries?
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Comments

  • 72897289 Beau DesertPosts: 1,691MI6 Agent
    American girls ("not that I have anything against them, some of them are lovely people") just aren't exotic enough for oo7 films.

    Even "The Master" - Ian Fleming, made limited use use of American girls in the books - The ones that do appear are memorable, like Tiffany Case. She even moved in with Bond, getting further into his life than many others.

    Pussy Galore was an American from the "South" who couldn't outrun her uncle, and ended up in Harlem, New York. Who knows what nationality the mysterious Solange was in "James Bond in New York".

    As for the films, maybe there is just the right actress out there...somewhere. A good script might be a help too.
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  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,236MI6 Agent
    I think Pam Bouvier was ok.

    Agree about the others though, Stacey Sutton was beautiful as you said, but also annoying (and this is coming from a huge AVTAK supporter - still love the film nonetheless).

    Jinx was DIRE. Possibly worst bond girl of all time.

    Christmas Jones not great, but at the same time not bad either.

    But yeah, ones from different countries seem to be so much better.
    1 - LALD, 2 - AVTAK, 3 - LTK, 4 - OP, 5 - NTTD, 6 - FYEO, 7 - SF, 8 - DN, 9 - DAF, 10 - TSWLM, 11 - OHMSS, 12 - TMWTGG, 13 - GE, 14 - MR, 15 - TLD, 16 - YOLT, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - SP, 21 - TND, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • Nicko1234Nicko1234 Posts: 74MI6 Agent
    I actually forgot about Barbara Bach. I guess she proves that it's less about the actress's nationality and more about the character's.

    The American Bond girls in DAF and LALD are poor again.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    I don't know if I agree. I mean, I love Barbara Bach and I also really like Jill St. John and Lois Chiles, so I think Americans can make good Bond girls. Ultimately, I think it comes down to the individual actress and character.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Nicko1234Nicko1234 Posts: 74MI6 Agent
    I agree about Barbara Bach but she was playing a non-American character which was significant I think.

    I would guess that if people were to pick out the best 10 or even 15 Bond girls that there wouldn't be an American character among them. I think it's partly because of the lack of exoticism that was mentioned earlier and partly due to the culture clash. Bond shouldn't be meeting up with characters like Christmas Jones anymore than he should be meeting up with chavs in Britain.
  • actonsteveactonsteve Posts: 299MI6 Agent
    I have to say I do like Holly Goodhead and Pam Bouvier And Jill St John plays Tiffany Case with such fizz I find myself really enjoying her.

    The others are pretty bleugh...

    Jinx, Rosie, Stacy, Paris, Christmas Jones etc..seem to have something missing. Give me a girl with an accent and a foreign sounding name and I am won over. Even veddy english Fiona Fullerton affected a Russian accent and one me over in a second.
  • MoniqueMonique USAPosts: 696MI6 Agent
    Nicko1234 wrote:
    By that I mean convincing Bond girls.

    Doubtless somebody will come up with examples to disprove this but it seems to me that everytime an American is hired she is godawful.

    Halle Berry - Looked like a Teletubby in her swimming costume as one reviewer said and not a popular character.
    Denise Richards - No class or acting talent.
    Tanya Roberts - Very beautiful but was more at home in her soft-porn films.
    Lois Chiles - Forgettable performance and not as beautiful as many other actresses from the series.

    Carey Lowell was ok I suppose but overall why are they so inferior to the actresses from other countries?

    I don't know about any other women here, but I find this whole post and attitude utterly offensive.
  • Nicko1234Nicko1234 Posts: 74MI6 Agent
    You'll have to explain why I'm afraid. I certainly didn't mean it that way so if you're offended then I've probably just worded my post badly and hopefully I will be able to explain it better next time.
  • JennyFlexFanJennyFlexFan Posts: 1,497MI6 Agent
    I have to say, they're not as bad as they're made out to be. I've rewatched many Bond films time and time again and the ones described here aren't horrific except for Jinx and Oil Rig Tiffany.

    As an AVTAK supporter, and I'm shocked at Jarvio ;), but I like Stacey. She's a Bond girl that everyone can relate to because of how realistic she is as opposed to an NSA agent and a nuclear scientist.

    Granted, Christmas isn't top of my list, but she's not awful. Maybe because of that one part in the submarine... :v

    Chiles plays her part well as one of the most independent women for her decade. She's a scientist AND a CIA agent AND she can fight too. Also, she's probably the most dismissive of Bond of all the girls (and you can't blame her either!)

    Carey Lowell is the only good thing about her movie. She's another liberated woman who, while beautiful, one-ups Bond in the bar with her shotgun, which I find hilarious. And she stands up to Bond in the boat about her military record. Maybe it's because I hate Dalton, but I adored Pam's feistiness and take-no-prisoner attitude!
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,992Quartermasters
    edited June 2007
    I'm not sure I'd single out the American Bond Girls for bad acting, IMO. There's been plenty of that to go round...then again, it's hard to pin-point where bad writing ends and bad acting begins :(|)

    It makes sense that the Yank Babes are underrepresented, numbers-wise, since 007's adventures generally take him to more exotic and far-flung locations...

    When my sons were babies, I saw the Teletubbies---and I assure you all, none of them looked ANYTHING like Halle Berry in the bikini scene in DAD. The reviewer who originally said that must have been viewing the film through his own sphincter.

    Jill St. John...a knockout. She played the part that was written for her, so it's not really her fault that her IQ was halved by the Third Act of DAF.

    I thought Lois Chiles had a lovely smile, and was one of the first real 'mold-breakers' in the franchise.

    Carey Lowell was great in LTK.

    Denise Richards...getting a bit tougher to defend. Looked great in the submarine sequence :x

    Tanya Roberts...don't care where she was born. Awful. But at least she was in the right movie for it :v

    I was engaged to a couple of European girls before I finally married an American one, so...what can I say? I think the premise of this thread is flawed, at best ;)

    Only my opinion.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited June 2007
    What I want to know is why can't Aussies be Bond girls? ;) I mean, 21 official Bond girls, and not one Australian Bond girl. :# :)) Seriously, I can understand why so many of the Bond girls are European, since European Bond girls are exotic, while Australian girls, whilst great, are certainly not exotic. I would suggest that it probably applies to Americans as well, which is why so few Americans have played Bond girls.

    Nonetheless, I don't think that nationality (or other such characteristics *except for hair length) have anything to do with what makes a good Bond girl.

    *I wish Fish was around to read that. :))
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Nicko1234Nicko1234 Posts: 74MI6 Agent
    I'm not sure how your marrying an American is that relevant to be honest. I wasn't saying anything derogatory about American women and simply talking about how a lot of the American actresses and the American female characters in Bond haven't really worked out.

    I don't think that they've been underrepresented either. I guess in all of those films there must have been about 40 Bond Girls of any significance. Now roughly a quarter of them have come from America so that's a decent amount.

    Yet if people were to nominate their favourite Bond girls the only American who would make it into the top ten or probably 15 would be Barbara Bach who played a Russian character. That's a pretty poor success rate isn't it?
  • Nicko1234Nicko1234 Posts: 74MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    What I want to know is why can't Aussies be Bond girls? ;) I mean, 21 official Bond girls, and not one Australian Bond girl. :# :)) Seriously, I can understand why so many of the Bond girls are European, since European Bond girls are exotic, while Australian girls, whilst great, are certainly not exotic. I would suggest that it probably applies to Americans as well, which is why so few Americans have played Bond girls.'

    About 10 Americans have played Bond girls which, when you consider that every story is told in a different country of the world, is a very healthy number. Do you think that their general lack of popularity is just down to coincidence?
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,236MI6 Agent
    edited June 2007
    Dan Same wrote:
    What I want to know is why can't Aussies be Bond girls? ;) I mean, 21 official Bond girls, and not one Australian Bond girl. :# :)) Seriously, I can understand why so many of the Bond girls are European, since European Bond girls are exotic, while Australian girls, whilst great, are certainly not exotic. I would suggest that it probably applies to Americans as well, which is why so few Americans have played Bond girls.

    Nonetheless, I don't think that nationality (or other such characteristics *except for hair length) have anything to do with what makes a good Bond girl.

    *I wish Fish was around to read that. :))

    Australia seems to be ignored by Bond full stop... no Australian girls, no Australian locations.... I would LOVE to see Bond go to Australia.

    The only Australian thing is Lazenby, but does he even count? :))
    1 - LALD, 2 - AVTAK, 3 - LTK, 4 - OP, 5 - NTTD, 6 - FYEO, 7 - SF, 8 - DN, 9 - DAF, 10 - TSWLM, 11 - OHMSS, 12 - TMWTGG, 13 - GE, 14 - MR, 15 - TLD, 16 - YOLT, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - SP, 21 - TND, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited June 2007
    Nicko1234 wrote:
    Do you think that their general lack of popularity is just down to coincidence?
    Yes. Although, it's quite debatable as to say that they are generally less popular. Denise Richards, whom everyone loves to deride, didn't exactly see her career get hurt by her performance in TWINE. I think it's subjective and ultimately it gets down to the individual actresses.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    Jarvio wrote:
    I would LOVE to see Bond go to Australia.
    I wouldn't. ;) Every time a film comes to Australia, it comes to Sydney, and as a Melbournian, I have a thing against Sydney. ;) Seriously, Australia IMO isn't exotic enough. Although considering Bond has been to Texas, I guess being exotic isn't the only criteria. :v
    Jarvio wrote:
    The only Australian thing is Lazenby, but does he even count? :))
    No. :))
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • The Sly FoxThe Sly Fox USAPosts: 467MI6 Agent
    7289 wrote:
    As for the films, maybe there is just the right actress out there...somewhere. A good script might be a help too.

    I'll bet a lot of it has to do with the script, as 7289 has said. If there isn't a good script, you can pretty much make anyone look awful. Look at some of the Brosnan scripts. Brosnan is probably one of the greatest actors of our time, yet he was given horrible lines in both DAD and TND (he still managed to do a great job, though).

    Stacy Sutton is a prime example of this. She reminds me of Donna's mother in That '70s Show. ;) If the scripts could be written in favor of American women, it wouldn't be this way. I know there are American girls that are just as exotic as European ones--I happen to be looking for one. :D

    ...Although I must admit, the hunt has turned up few... :'(
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    I would LOVE to see Bond go to Australia.
    I wouldn't. ;) Every time a film comes to Australia, it comes to Sydney, and as a Melbournian, I have a thing against Sydney. ;) Seriously, Australia IMO isn't exotic enough. Although considering Bond has been to Texas, I guess being exotic isn't the only criteria. [/quote]

    Uh, we could compromise and go Bris Vegas. Its a prettier looking city, ya know.

    As for American Bond girls, I think that theres a sterotype for Americans that suggests that they cant be percieved as being weak or inferior. Which is absurd, because as long as screenwriters make a script where Bond has to save the girl she will appear dominated by bond. Look at the Jinx/Bond and Vesper/Bond movie. All the times Jinx got into trouble and had to wait for Bond to save her made her character look less independant. However Vesper's character (who wasnt written to be such a force to reckon with) it seemed natural she'd need to be saved at some point. And being an action/romance movie, a point will come up when Bond HAS to save the girl.

    Of course Id put Holly and Pam as being competant American Bond girls, and the producers did what they could to limit the times they were placed in helpless situations.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,992Quartermasters
    edited June 2007
    Nicko1234 wrote:
    I'm not sure how your marrying an American is that relevant to be honest.

    Oookay 8-) So much for levity. I'll bear your utter seriousness in mind from now on 8-)
    Nicko1234 wrote:
    I wasn't saying anything derogatory about American women and simply talking about how a lot of the American actresses and the American female characters in Bond haven't really worked out.

    Well, since we're being honest, I can see how an American woman might take offence at your assertion. Seriously.
    Nicko1234 wrote:
    Yet if people were to nominate their favourite Bond girls the only American who would make it into the top ten or probably 15 would be Barbara Bach who played a Russian character. That's a pretty poor success rate isn't it?

    Funny. I never knew Barbara Bach was an American :)) But then, I've never tried to postulate a case against their success in Bond films...

    In my opinion, it's just a lot of bad luck that they appear in some of the less well-made films ;)

    Seriously.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    taity wrote:
    Uh, we could compromise and go Bris Vegas. Its a prettier looking city, ya know.
    Prettier than what? ;) If Bond were to come to Australia, I think Tasmania could be really interesting.
    taity wrote:
    As for American Bond girls, I think that theres a sterotype for Americans that suggests that they cant be percieved as being weak or inferior. Which is absurd, because as long as screenwriters make a script where Bond has to save the girl she will appear dominated by bond. Look at the Jinx/Bond
    Although Jinx was ultimately saved by Bond many times, she still came off to me as insufferably independent.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    Prettier than what? ;) If Bond were to come to Australia, I think Tasmania could be really interesting.

    What would he do there? Something about old growth forests and gay bashing? Please, even Melbourne is better

    Dan Same wrote:
    Although Jinx was ultimately saved by Bond many times, she still came off to me as insufferably independent.

    A great sign of that was when she was sitting waiting to be rescued from the laser beams. And only she could have gotten stuck in a melting Ice palace. And she didnt do that greater job at getting out of the plane. She sat there waiting until Bond said "i can save you."
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited June 2007
    taity wrote:
    What would he do there? Something about old growth forests and gay bashing?
    Tasmania has amazing forests. A villain could have a hideout there.
    taity wrote:
    Please, even Melbourne is better.
    Of course the best city in Australia is better. :p
    taity wrote:
    A great sign of that was when she was sitting waiting to be rescued from the laser beams. And only she could have gotten stuck in a melting Ice palace. And she didnt do that greater job at getting out of the plane. She sat there waiting until Bond said "i can save you."
    I was referring to her attitude. Jinx had a 'look at me, I'm Bond's equal' attitude which really p****d me off.
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • taitytaity Posts: 702MI6 Agent
    Melbourne...best city...no. Lets just agree to disagree and say that there really isnt any point for Bond coming to Australia. We're far too nice to have anything for MI6 to have a reason to investigate us.

    All that was missing from Bond's performance was HAlle Berry saying "whatya talkin' about, Bond" They could have mixed it into the script, maybe somewhere along when Bond says that Zao didnt bring the face machine from Cuba. Ohhh, what could have been.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    edited June 2007
    taity wrote:
    Lets just agree to disagree and say that there really isnt any point for Bond coming to Australia. We're far too nice to have anything for MI6 to have a reason to investigate us.
    Taity, I also don't think Bond should come to Australia. My comment about Texas was purely facetious. ;)
    taity wrote:
    All that was missing from Bond's performance was HAlle Berry saying "whatya talkin' about, Bond" They could have mixed it into the script, maybe somewhere along when Bond says that Zao didnt bring the face machine from Cuba. Ohhh, what could have been.
    What are you saying? ?:) Are you saying that you agree or disagree about Jinx's attitude?
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • JarvioJarvio EnglandPosts: 4,236MI6 Agent
    I also hated Jinx's attitude.

    Three things that really annoyed me about her were:

    1 - The 'yo momma' line. What the hell! Why say that? One of the worst lines in Bond ever.

    2 - 'Guess we're going down together' - for the love of god, the plane is about the crash-land, and she is just chilled out and says stuff like that. What the hell, once again

    3 - 'Still the good guys huh' - EUGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    1 - LALD, 2 - AVTAK, 3 - LTK, 4 - OP, 5 - NTTD, 6 - FYEO, 7 - SF, 8 - DN, 9 - DAF, 10 - TSWLM, 11 - OHMSS, 12 - TMWTGG, 13 - GE, 14 - MR, 15 - TLD, 16 - YOLT, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - SP, 21 - TND, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS

    1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
  • Nicko1234Nicko1234 Posts: 74MI6 Agent
    Loeffelholz wrote:

    Well, since we're being honest, I can see how an American woman might take offence at your assertion. Seriously.

    In what way? I don't mean that facetiously. It's entirely possible that i've put my foot in it I admit.
    Nicko1234 wrote:
    Yet if people were to nominate their favourite Bond girls the only American who would make it into the top ten or probably 15 would be Barbara Bach who played a Russian character. That's a pretty poor success rate isn't it?

    Funny. I never knew Barbara Bach was an American :)) But then, I've never tried to postulate a case against their success in Bond films...

    In my opinion, it's just a lot of bad luck that they appear in some of the less well-made films ;)

    Seriously.

    That's certainly an argument and to an extent I agree that they have appeared in some of the lesser movies. Was it the movies that made them bad though or did those characters not help the movies by appearing?

    LALD is considered to be a good movie though but Rosie isn't considered to be a good character. TND got good reviews when it was released but the character of Paris didn't. The same with Christmas Jones and TWINE.

    It isn't a case of me trying to postulate a case.
    It's simply a fact that all of these American characters failed to really hit with the audience. As you've said, you think it was coincidence but I don't think it was quite that simple. A fair subject to debate surely.
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    What I want to know is why can't Aussies be Bond girls? ;) I mean, 21 official Bond girls, and not one Australian Bond girl.

    It's about time for an Aussie Bond girl. How about Nicole Kidman Dan? I know you like her. :)) Seriously, I'd love to see an Aussie cast as the female lead. How about Abbie Cornish, or Jessica Gower, or just about any other female who appeared in The Secret Life of Us. And Bond should definitely visit Australia. There must be something down there a criminal mastermind could take advantage of.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,992Quartermasters
    Nicko1234 wrote:
    It isn't a case of me trying to postulate a case.

    Oh, sorry. I thought you'd started a thread entitled, 'Why can't Americans be Bond girls?'
    Nicko1234 wrote:
    It's simply a fact that all of these American characters failed to really hit with the audience. As you've said, you think it was coincidence but I don't think it was quite that simple. A fair subject to debate surely.

    No less fair, surely, than basing an argument against Scandinavian Bond girls on the thespian gifts of Britt Ekland.

    Seriously.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    Nicko1234 wrote:
    It's simply a fact that all of these American characters failed to really hit with the audience.
    As someone who doesn't mind Christmas Jones, I guess I missed it being a fact that American actresses don't make good Bond girls. ;)
    John Drake wrote:
    It's about time for an Aussie Bond girl. How about Nicole Kidman Dan? I know you like her. :))
    Ouch. :# :))
    John Drake wrote:
    Seriously, I'd love to see an Aussie cast as the female lead. How about Abbie Cornish, or Jessica Gower, or just about any other female who appeared in The Secret Life of Us.
    Apparently Abbie Cornish is rumoured for Bond 22. I would actually love someone like Rose Byrne or Naomi Watts. They could be wonderful. :D
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Nicko1234Nicko1234 Posts: 74MI6 Agent
    Does it really fit with Bond's image to go to Australia though? Nothing against Australia at all but the idea of it doesn't really work in my head.

    The women and the country are certainly beautiful enough though and it would be cheap enough to film there so perhaps there's a chance.
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