I wouldn't. Every time a film comes to Australia, it comes to Sydney, and as a Melbournian, I have a thing against Sydney. Seriously, Australia IMO isn't exotic enough. Although considering Bond has been to Texas, I guess being exotic isn't the only criteria. :v
Does it really fit with Bond's image to go to Australia though? Nothing against Australia at all but the idea of it doesn't really work in my head.
The women and the country are certainly beautiful enough though and it would be cheap enough to film there so perhaps there's a chance.
I think that the idea of Bond going to Australia doesn't work in a lot of people's heads.
But I think that the main reason for this is that we haven't associated Bond with Australia. Out of all the 21 films, he has never been. Us, the viewers, the fans, don't expect Bond to suddenly go to Australia because of this - we just simply wouldn't expect it, and it would be a shocking change. I mean, it's a really well known country that he's never set foot in. That's what I think anyway.
But I seriously think it would work, and seriously think we should give it a chance.
It's the same with Canada IMO, another place Bond has never been to.
Wait Dan, though this may be stretching it, Alura McCall in Nightfire was an Aussie. So there's hope for you yet!
) I had no idea. A Bond and a character in a video game; I could live with that.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Now that is 13 by my reckoning. Now as I;ve said, only 1 of them is considered to be up their with the best Bond girls and she played a Russian.
Isn't that selection of 13 people a little bit more significant than just picking out a dodgy character from TMWTGG?
I'm not saying that all of the American characters were awful. But it is a fact that none of them are considered to be genuinely great characters. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Now that is 13 by my reckoning. Now as I;ve said, only 1 of them is considered to be up their with the best Bond girls and she played a Russian.
Isn't that selection of 13 people a little bit more significant than just picking out a dodgy character from TMWTGG?
I'm not saying that all of the American characters were awful. But it is a fact that none of them are considered to be genuinely great characters. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Is Grace Jones one of them that you counted?
Mayday is very respected and memorable. But then again, she isn't a Bond girl, she's a villaness.
I meant to mention that in my post. You're right that Mayday is a lot more popular than most. I think it;s actually because she is an unusual character.
Many of the other American characters such as Stacy Sutton, Christmas Jones, Paris Carver etc. are fairly average in the way that they talk and behave. Now there's nothing wrong with how American women behave obviously but in a Bond film the characters should be larger than life rather than mundane.
Now that is 13 by my reckoning. Now as I;ve said, only 1 of them is considered to be up their with the best Bond girls and she played a Russian.
Isn't that selection of 13 people a little bit more significant than just picking out a dodgy character from TMWTGG?
I'm not saying that all of the American characters were awful. But it is a fact that none of them are considered to be genuinely great characters. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Your efforts here are fascinating, in all seriousness.
Clearly you're saying that you don't enjoy seeing American actresses in Bond films. Well, of course I'm sorry about that And I'm sure you can find posts here, and elsewhere, where individual performances by these reviled American actresses have been unkindly received.
Is the crux of your argument that American actresses are mostly incapable of effectively portraying a Bond girl...or that Eon deliberately gives us mostly substandard American characters?
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Now that is 13 by my reckoning. Now as I;ve said, only 1 of them is considered to be up their with the best Bond girls and she played a Russian.
Isn't that selection of 13 people a little bit more significant than just picking out a dodgy character from TMWTGG?
I'm not saying that all of the American characters were awful. But it is a fact that none of them are considered to be genuinely great characters. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Your efforts here are fascinating, in all seriousness.
Clearly you're saying that you don't enjoy seeing American actresses in Bond films. Well, of course I'm sorry about that And I'm sure you can find posts here, and elsewhere, where individual performances by these reviled American actresses have been unkindly received.
Is the crux of your argument that American actresses are mostly incapable of effectively portraying a Bond girl...or that Eon deliberately gives us mostly substandard American characters?
Err, where on earth have i suggested that Eon deliberately creates substandard American characters? Why would they deliberately create any substandard character?
I also stated earlier on that it's the American characters that are the problem not the actors. I didn't have a problem with Barbara Bach's Russian character at all. It just so happens that American actresses usuually play American characters understandably.
What you don't seem to want to accept is that I'm not talking about a few bad reviews of those characters. What I'm saying is that none has been considered to be great by the general public? Can you argue with that? Several have also been nominated as contenders for the worst female characters (I actually forgot Bibi when I made that list. Another bad character in what is generally considered to be a fine film). Can you disagree with that either?
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,991Quartermasters
Err, where on earth have i suggested that Eon deliberately creates substandard American characters? Why would they deliberately create any substandard character?
I also stated earlier on that it's the American characters that are the problem not the actors.
I'm just trying to understand your motivations for starting this thread, that's all. It seems to me that you're asserting that Eon (deliberately or not!) has served up mostly (read: nearly all) inferior American female characters, basically throughout the history of the franchise, and you want to know why. Am I correct in this assumption...emtiem?
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Loeff, do you really believe that he is emtiem or are you just insulting him? )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Loeff, do you really believe that he is emtiem or are you just insulting him? )
No insult intended...seriously...just checking...
Ever pass someone on the street...and think you recognize them?
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I thought Jill St John was fine in DAF. I love Barbara Bach in TSWLM. Lois Chiles, = very attractive. Tanya Roberts struggled in AVTAK, but then she really wasn’t given anything to work with. I’ve seen her in other stuff and she has a bit more of a kick to her. Stacy is wetter than the River Seine. She’s only there to scream, be rescued and then fed quiche by Roger Moore. I think Roberts could have been excellent given a better part. As for Denise Richards, I really like her. She is stunning to look at. If she told me she was a nuclear scientist, I’d believe her. And I find her far preferable to the sulky, petulant, mademoiselle Marceau.
Jinx was gorgeous, but poorly written. Rosie Carver, a victim of racially exploitative writing. Bibi, most unfortunate (but minor in the scope of an unfortunate decade-and-a-half, IMO). The 'ice cream' line almost made her inclusion worthwhile. Seriously.
I actually liked Paris Carver, and thought her scene in the hotel with Brozzer was a highpoint of his tenure in the role.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Hopefully it's apparent that i'm not a raving lunatic at least.
The 12 or so American characters that I've mentioned obviously have some fans and some detractors but having a character like Bibi saying, 'I'm pooped' just seems like a million miles away from the world which Bond should be living in. Christmas Jones's dialogue feels a bit like that too to me.
I don't love them but not because they are American. My problem with Jinx was her short hair and horrible attitude, while I also think she was the victim of some terrible lines. Bibi was such that I doubt even the most talented actress could have redeemed her. I don't think she was a horrible character but I don't think she was particularly memorable. I don't have a problem with Rosie, however I think she suffers from being in the same film as Jane Seymour. As for Paris, my problem isn't Teri Hatcher (whom I like) but that we never really got to know Paris. I think she suffered from a lack of writing.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Well as I said earlier, i wasn't blaming the actresses for these characters' failings. Obviously there are plenty of talented actresses in America. I just think that the Bond makers have failed to create enough good characters from America for whatever reason.
They have a common theme. They are all played by rubbish actresses. Halle Berry has an academy award, though God and all his archangels are still wondering why. As for Teri Hatcher, if Eon have any of the rumoured arguments between her and Brosnan on film, please put them on Youtube. It would be far more intersting than what went in the movie. As for Lynn Holly-Johnson, does even she know where she is now?
Rosie Carver
Gloria Hendry was hamstrung by having a character who was there to be merely pushed about and patronised by Bond.
I don't think it's the case that American actresses make bad Bond girls, but rather that bad actresses make bad bond girls. And if Eon cast an interesting actress, then she should at least be given her something to do.
And I know NSNA is unofficial, but I thought Kim Basinger made a excellent Bond girl. And she's as American as Playboy magazine.
Halle Berry has an academy award, though God and all his archangels are still wondering why.
Because she was amazing in Monster's Ball! John, I dislike Jinx as much as the next person (probably more) but never question my future wife's acting abilites! X-(
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,991Quartermasters
I know NSNA is unofficial, but I thought Kim Basinger made a excellent Bond girl. And she's as American as Playboy magazine.
I can agree with that {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
never question my future wife's acting abilites! X-(
) I propose a truce. I'll go easy on Berry, if you go easy on Kidman.
Agreed. {[] )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Thanks for debating my question anyway and i hope that I've shown that the succes rate of the American female characters has been far less than the success rate of characters from other countries.
I was probably being too strong when I said that American's couldn't make good female characters, but should have just stated that for the most part they haven't really.
Anuway, I trust there is nothing sexist or Xenophobic in that.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,991Quartermasters
i hope that I've shown that the succes rate of the American female characters has been far less than the success rate of characters from other countries.
Well, if you feel you have, that's really all that matters, and it's certainly okay with me {[]
Many of the films you cite are significant financial successes, and the 'negative reactions' are quite often those of fanboys like us---and critics, who generally aren't overly in love with Bond anyway---ergo, in my opinion their 'failure' is largely a subjective thing.
I hope that Eon someday produces more American Bond girls to your liking!
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Thanks for debating my question anyway and i hope that I've shown that the succes rate of the American female characters has been far less than the success rate of characters from other countries.
I still think it's strictly your own opinion, not fact. The minute you compared Halle Berry to a Teletubby, you lost me, even if it wasn't your own direct quote. The woman is a goddess, and that is a really ridiculous comparison. I don't like generalizations or prejudices like these, that ALL are one thing. I happen to think Maryam D'Abo and Rosamund Pike were two of the most boring Bond girls. Does that mean I think all the British women in Bond films suck? No, of course not! Honor Blackman is one of my very favorites.
If you are basing it on looks all of the actresses you mentioned, Halle, Jill St. John, Lois Chiles and Denise Richards are all very beautiful women. If you are basing it on acting, well, there's more blame to lay around on many of the Bond Girls of all nationalities, not just Americans. Like Loeff said, it's completely subjective, and not factual information as you are claiming.
Thanks for debating my question anyway and i hope that I've shown that the succes rate of the American female characters has been far less than the success rate of characters from other countries.
I still think it's strictly your own opinion, not fact. The minute you compared Halle Berry to a Teletubby, you lost me, even if it wasn't your own direct quote. The woman is a goddess, and that is a really ridiculous comparison. I don't like generalizations or prejudices like these, that ALL are one thing. I happen to think Maryam D'Abo and Rosamund Pike were two of the most boring Bond girls. Does that mean I think all the British women in Bond films suck? No, of course not! Honor Blackman is one of my very favorites.
If you are basing it on looks all of the actresses you mentioned, Halle, Jill St. John, Lois Chiles and Denise Richards are all very beautiful women. If you are basing it on acting, well, there's more blame to lay around on many of the Bond Girls of all nationalities, not just Americans. Like Loeff said, it's completely subjective, and not factual information as you are claiming.
I agree that basing an opinion on just 2 Bond girls would be wrong but I am basing it on a lot more than that. I did explain that.
I've also said many times in this thread that I should have said right from the start that I was referring to American characters who happen to be played by American actresses rather than the actresses themselves. That was my mistake but I have said it several times.
Also I am not just talking about an opinion. I am talking about facts. It is a fact for example that Bibi is not a well respected character in the Bond films.
Now by my reckoning there have been 11 or so reasonably significant American female characters played by Americans in the Bond films.
Bibi, Jinx, Stacy Sutton and Rosie Carver are not generally well liked. I doubt whether anybody would disagree with me too much there.
Christmas Jones, Paris Carver, Tiffany Case and Plenty O'Toole all have very mixed reputations as Bond. Some people like them and some people don't. Many who like them seem to think more of their beauty than the characterizations however.
Pam Bouvier and Holly Goodhead are considered to be stonger characters. Not great but good. The same goes for Kim Basinger's character in NSNA (I know that Domino wasn't strictly American but I can't remember how Kim Basinger played her so I thought I should include her as well).
Now as you can see from that, more than one third of all American female characters played by Americans are generally considered to be poor. Can you honestly say that the same goes for all of the Bond girls? Are there 13 or 14 Bond girls in the series who are viewed as poorly as Bibi or Jinx?
This is not an Anti-American post. It is simply arguing that the film makers have often struggled to write good American female characters for the actresses to play. Now perhaps that's coincidence as some have said or perhaps there's more to it.
Probably I haven't worded my posts very well but surely you must see that there is no reason to take offence. I do object to the term 'prejudice' because it is completely uncalled for.
Comments
Wait Dan, though this may be stretching it, Alura McCall in Nightfire was an Aussie. So there's hope for you yet!
I think that the idea of Bond going to Australia doesn't work in a lot of people's heads.
But I think that the main reason for this is that we haven't associated Bond with Australia. Out of all the 21 films, he has never been. Us, the viewers, the fans, don't expect Bond to suddenly go to Australia because of this - we just simply wouldn't expect it, and it would be a shocking change. I mean, it's a really well known country that he's never set foot in. That's what I think anyway.
But I seriously think it would work, and seriously think we should give it a chance.
It's the same with Canada IMO, another place Bond has never been to.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
Of course it's different. Britt Ekland played one dodgy character. The other 3 performances by Swedish actressed were all pretty well received.
Meanwhile just think about the number of Americans that have appeared in Bond movies.
DAF - 2.
LALD - 1.
TSWLM - 1.
MR - 1.
NSNA - 1.
AVTAK - 2.
LTK - 2.
TND - 1.
TWINE - 1.
DAD - 1.
Now that is 13 by my reckoning. Now as I;ve said, only 1 of them is considered to be up their with the best Bond girls and she played a Russian.
Isn't that selection of 13 people a little bit more significant than just picking out a dodgy character from TMWTGG?
I'm not saying that all of the American characters were awful. But it is a fact that none of them are considered to be genuinely great characters. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Is Grace Jones one of them that you counted?
Mayday is very respected and memorable. But then again, she isn't a Bond girl, she's a villaness.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
Many of the other American characters such as Stacy Sutton, Christmas Jones, Paris Carver etc. are fairly average in the way that they talk and behave. Now there's nothing wrong with how American women behave obviously but in a Bond film the characters should be larger than life rather than mundane.
I didn't realise that actually. She is certainly one of the most impressive actresses that I mentioned anyway.
Your efforts here are fascinating, in all seriousness.
Clearly you're saying that you don't enjoy seeing American actresses in Bond films. Well, of course I'm sorry about that
Is the crux of your argument that American actresses are mostly incapable of effectively portraying a Bond girl...or that Eon deliberately gives us mostly substandard American characters?
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Err, where on earth have i suggested that Eon deliberately creates substandard American characters? Why would they deliberately create any substandard character?
I also stated earlier on that it's the American characters that are the problem not the actors. I didn't have a problem with Barbara Bach's Russian character at all. It just so happens that American actresses usuually play American characters understandably.
What you don't seem to want to accept is that I'm not talking about a few bad reviews of those characters. What I'm saying is that none has been considered to be great by the general public? Can you argue with that? Several have also been nominated as contenders for the worst female characters (I actually forgot Bibi when I made that list. Another bad character in what is generally considered to be a fine film). Can you disagree with that either?
I'm just trying to understand your motivations for starting this thread, that's all. It seems to me that you're asserting that Eon (deliberately or not!) has served up mostly (read: nearly all) inferior American female characters, basically throughout the history of the franchise, and you want to know why. Am I correct in this assumption...emtiem?
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
By the way, I hope this hasn't got too heated. I just wanted to open up a debate.
I know that some people like some of those characters and as i've said i certainly don't think that they're all awful.
If people think it's a coincidence then that's fair enough.
No insult intended...seriously...just checking...
Ever pass someone on the street...and think you recognize them?
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Jinx, Paris Carver, Bibi, Rosie Carver...?
Jinx was gorgeous, but poorly written. Rosie Carver, a victim of racially exploitative writing. Bibi, most unfortunate (but minor in the scope of an unfortunate decade-and-a-half, IMO). The 'ice cream' line almost made her inclusion worthwhile. Seriously.
I actually liked Paris Carver, and thought her scene in the hotel with Brozzer was a highpoint of his tenure in the role.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
The 12 or so American characters that I've mentioned obviously have some fans and some detractors but having a character like Bibi saying, 'I'm pooped' just seems like a million miles away from the world which Bond should be living in. Christmas Jones's dialogue feels a bit like that too to me.
They have a common theme. They are all played by rubbish actresses.
Gloria Hendry was hamstrung by having a character who was there to be merely pushed about and patronised by Bond.
I don't think it's the case that American actresses make bad Bond girls, but rather that bad actresses make bad bond girls. And if Eon cast an interesting actress, then she should at least be given her something to do.
And I know NSNA is unofficial, but I thought Kim Basinger made a excellent Bond girl. And she's as American as Playboy magazine.
I can agree with that {[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I was probably being too strong when I said that American's couldn't make good female characters, but should have just stated that for the most part they haven't really.
Anuway, I trust there is nothing sexist or Xenophobic in that.
Well, if you feel you have, that's really all that matters,
Many of the films you cite are significant financial successes, and the 'negative reactions' are quite often those of fanboys like us---and critics, who generally aren't overly in love with Bond anyway---ergo, in my opinion their 'failure' is largely a subjective thing.
I hope that Eon someday produces more American Bond girls to your liking!
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I still think it's strictly your own opinion, not fact. The minute you compared Halle Berry to a Teletubby, you lost me, even if it wasn't your own direct quote. The woman is a goddess, and that is a really ridiculous comparison. I don't like generalizations or prejudices like these, that ALL are one thing. I happen to think Maryam D'Abo and Rosamund Pike were two of the most boring Bond girls. Does that mean I think all the British women in Bond films suck? No, of course not! Honor Blackman is one of my very favorites.
If you are basing it on looks all of the actresses you mentioned, Halle, Jill St. John, Lois Chiles and Denise Richards are all very beautiful women. If you are basing it on acting, well, there's more blame to lay around on many of the Bond Girls of all nationalities, not just Americans. Like Loeff said, it's completely subjective, and not factual information as you are claiming.
I agree that basing an opinion on just 2 Bond girls would be wrong but I am basing it on a lot more than that. I did explain that.
I've also said many times in this thread that I should have said right from the start that I was referring to American characters who happen to be played by American actresses rather than the actresses themselves. That was my mistake but I have said it several times.
Also I am not just talking about an opinion. I am talking about facts. It is a fact for example that Bibi is not a well respected character in the Bond films.
Now by my reckoning there have been 11 or so reasonably significant American female characters played by Americans in the Bond films.
Bibi, Jinx, Stacy Sutton and Rosie Carver are not generally well liked. I doubt whether anybody would disagree with me too much there.
Christmas Jones, Paris Carver, Tiffany Case and Plenty O'Toole all have very mixed reputations as Bond. Some people like them and some people don't. Many who like them seem to think more of their beauty than the characterizations however.
Pam Bouvier and Holly Goodhead are considered to be stonger characters. Not great but good. The same goes for Kim Basinger's character in NSNA (I know that Domino wasn't strictly American but I can't remember how Kim Basinger played her so I thought I should include her as well).
Now as you can see from that, more than one third of all American female characters played by Americans are generally considered to be poor. Can you honestly say that the same goes for all of the Bond girls? Are there 13 or 14 Bond girls in the series who are viewed as poorly as Bibi or Jinx?
This is not an Anti-American post. It is simply arguing that the film makers have often struggled to write good American female characters for the actresses to play. Now perhaps that's coincidence as some have said or perhaps there's more to it.
Probably I haven't worded my posts very well but surely you must see that there is no reason to take offence. I do object to the term 'prejudice' because it is completely uncalled for.