Also I am not just talking about an opinion. I am talking about facts. It is a fact for example that Bibi is not a well respected character in the Bond films.
Have whatever opinion you want, but please do not call it a fact. I know of people who love Bibi, think that Jinx is a great character and adore Teri Hatcher in TND. True, they are a minority and the views that you stated are the majority. But they are still subjective, and not facts by any means.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
OK Nicko, I've read all five pages of your thread, and I have two comments:
1) Congrats and thanks for starting a new topic that gets so much instant response. Anything five pages long so quickly that isn't a poll or a contest is a rarity indeed these days.
2) What the hell is your point? You have demonstrated that it is a fact that, in your opinion, American Bond girls are wanting. Fair enough. But when you say it's not a coincidence, I must ask...then what is it?
Here's my opinions on the ones I can think of off-hand:
-- Tiffany - Jill St. John is no Oscar candidate, but she's perfectly dizzy in a perfectly dizzy film.
-- Plenty - An obvious farce of a character; the film was set in Vegas, so she needed to be American.
-- Rosie - Weakest female character in the film, but at least the producers had the guts to give the role to a woman of color in 1973.
-- Holly - What's wrong with her? Lois Chiles was great.
-- Bibi - One might rightly ask, were it not for her Chicago twang, is there any reason to believe Bibi is American? Greek uncle, German coach, buddies with a German biathlete...huh? I think they needed an actress who could skate, so picked LHJ...too bad Katarina Witt wasn't known yet.
-- Stacey - Bad actress, bad performance, bad character, bad film...it happens.
-- Pam - Again, what's wrong here? I really liked Carey Lowell.
-- Paris - I have no problem with Teri Hatcher, her performance or her character.
-- Christmas - Character was a fish out of water. Strange casting choice; felt like they were throwing a token American into a totally European film.
-- Jinx - Train wreck, like the entire film...shall I tell you what I think of Rosamund Pike's performance?
Overall, a decidedly mixed bag, but hardly an uninterrupted series of failures...and in many cases not even the principal Bond girls in their films.
What I'm saying is that none has been considered to be great by the general public? Can you argue with that?
Yes, because we are the public you speak of.
I for one am a fan of a few of the American Bond girls: Jill St John and Lois Chiles are among my favourites and I agree that Bibi's appearance is justified by the 'ice cream' line.
At the end of the day it's all down to what your tastes are, but a lot of people sharing the same view doesn't make it fact. If that was the case, based on the beliefs of young children, Father Christmas actually exists
1- On Her Majesty's Secret Service 2- Casino Royale 3- Licence To Kill 4- Goldeneye 5- From Russia With Love
If that was the case, based on the beliefs of young children, Father Christmas actually exists
You mean he doesn't?
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
What I'm saying is that none has been considered to be great by the general public? Can you argue with that?
Yes, because we are the public you speak of.
I for one am a fan of a few of the American Bond girls: Jill St John and Lois Chiles are among my favourites and I agree that Bibi's appearance is justified by the 'ice cream' line.
At the end of the day it's all down to what your tastes are, but a lot of people sharing the same view doesn't make it fact. If that was the case, based on the beliefs of young children, Father Christmas actually exists
I didn't say that there are no people in the world who like Bibi or any one of the other characters in the films. What I said is that she is not a well respected character.
I also didn't say that a lot of people sharing the same view makes it a fact. I simply said it's a fact that they do share that view. To use your example, if I said that it is a fact that many children in Britain believe in Father Christmas it would be a fact. Not that he exists, but that those children feel that way.
What I'm saying is that none has been considered to be great by the general public? Can you argue with that?
Yes, because we are the public you speak of.
I for one am a fan of a few of the American Bond girls: Jill St John and Lois Chiles are among my favourites and I agree that Bibi's appearance is justified by the 'ice cream' line.
At the end of the day it's all down to what your tastes are, but a lot of people sharing the same view doesn't make it fact. If that was the case, based on the beliefs of young children, Father Christmas actually exists
I didn't say that there are no people in the world who like Bibi or any one of the other characters in the films. What I said is that she is not a well respected character.
I also didn't say that a lot of people sharing the same view makes it a fact. I simply said it's a fact that they do share that view. To use your example, if I said that it is a fact that many children in Britain believe in Father Christmas it would be a fact. Not that he exists, but that those children feel that way.
You said that none had been considered 'great' by the general public. My argument is that I am the general public and I do find at least one of the characters 'great'.
Also I'm not saying that you actually said that mass opinion makes something fact, just that your wording implies it. I should have used the word true instead of fact.
1- On Her Majesty's Secret Service 2- Casino Royale 3- Licence To Kill 4- Goldeneye 5- From Russia With Love
OK Nicko, I've read all five pages of your thread, and I have two comments:
1) Congrats and thanks for starting a new topic that gets so much instant response. Anything five pages long so quickly that isn't a poll or a contest is a rarity indeed these days.
2) What the hell is your point? You have demonstrated that it is a fact that, in your opinion, American Bond girls are wanting. Fair enough. But when you say it's not a coincidence, I must ask...then what is it?
Here's my opinions on the ones I can think of off-hand:
-- Tiffany - Jill St. John is no Oscar candidate, but she's perfectly dizzy in a perfectly dizzy film.
-- Plenty - An obvious farce of a character; the film was set in Vegas, so she needed to be American.
-- Rosie - Weakest female character in the film, but at least the producers had the guts to give the role to a woman of color in 1973.
-- Holly - What's wrong with her? Lois Chiles was great.
-- Bibi - One might rightly ask, were it not for her Chicago twang, is there any reason to believe Bibi is American? Greek uncle, German coach, buddies with a German biathlete...huh? I think they needed an actress who could skate, so picked LHJ...too bad Katarina Witt wasn't known yet.
-- Stacey - Bad actress, bad performance, bad character, bad film...it happens.
-- Pam - Again, what's wrong here? I really liked Carey Lowell.
-- Paris - I have no problem with Teri Hatcher, her performance or her character.
-- Christmas - Character was a fish out of water. Strange casting choice; felt like they were throwing a token American into a totally European film.
-- Jinx - Train wreck, like the entire film...shall I tell you what I think of Rosamund Pike's performance?
Overall, a decidedly mixed bag, but hardly an uninterrupted series of failures...and in many cases not even the principal Bond girls in their films.
If you look at the descriptions that I gave for the Bond girls, I didn't say that it was an uninterrupted series of failures. I did say that Pam Bouvier and Lois Chiles are considered to be good characters. I also said that some people like Paris and almost every other description you gave I've already agreed with as well.
You asked if there was any reason to believe that Bibi was American. Doesn't she say somewhere in the film, 'gee pop I'm pooped' or words to that effect. Now I think you'd have to go a long way before you found more stereotypical American dialogue than that.
Your comment about Christmas Jones I completely agree with. A fish out of water. That's what I'd say for many of the American female characters. That's what my argument would be. Many such as Bibi, Christmas, Rosie, Plenty etc. have no business, in my opinion, of being in Bond's world. That's not to criticise all American women in the slightest.
You said that none had been considered 'great' by the general public. My argument is that I am the general public and I do find at least one of the characters 'great'.
Also I'm not saying that you actually said that mass opinion makes something fact, just that your wording implies it. I should have used the word true instead of fact.
I have to strongly disagree with your argument there. Of course you are a member of the general public but that doesn't mean that you ARE the general public. In all honesty, I've never seen somebody describe themself like that before.
For example, If an actor says that his film wasn't popular with the general public, would that be unture if 1 solitary fan liked it? Now I'm not saying that you're alone in your opinions. But the general opinion among fans, critics and the average movie going public would be that none of the characters that I mentioned are 'great'. That doesn't mean that nobody thinks that they're great.
Also I am not just talking about an opinion. I am talking about facts. It is a fact for example that Bibi is not a well respected character in the Bond films.
Have whatever opinion you want, but please do not call it a fact. I know of people who love Bibi, think that Jinx is a great character and adore Teri Hatcher in TND. True, they are a minority and the views that you stated are the majority. But they are still subjective, and not facts by any means.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who do like those characters. But as I've said, I was talking about the general opinion of people. That's not to say that I'm definitely right. I've been wrong a million times before and I'll be wrong a million times in the future.
You said that none had been considered 'great' by the general public. My argument is that I am the general public and I do find at least one of the characters 'great'.
Also I'm not saying that you actually said that mass opinion makes something fact, just that your wording implies it. I should have used the word true instead of fact.
I have to strongly disagree with your argument there. Of course you are a member of the general public but that doesn't mean that you ARE the general public. In all honesty, I've never seen somebody describe themself like that before.
For example, If an actor says that his film wasn't popular with the general public, would that be unture if 1 solitary fan liked it? Now I'm not saying that you're alone in your opinions. But the general opinion among fans, critics and the average movie going public would be that none of the characters that I mentioned are 'great'. That doesn't mean that nobody thinks that they're great.
I am not describing myself as the general public, just saying that I am part of it.
But in saying the general public, and not the majority or most of, you include everyone.
I would agree that perhaps the 'majority' of the general public don't find them great. I'm just arguing that I'm not in that majority.
1- On Her Majesty's Secret Service 2- Casino Royale 3- Licence To Kill 4- Goldeneye 5- From Russia With Love
I honestly don't have a problem with that at all. I thought that general public has always been used to mean majority but, as I've said, I may be wrong on that.
By the way, I know that this isn't any evidence at all and it proves nothing but can I just add this link to prove that I'm not completely on my own and descending into madness.
Doubtless somebody will come up with examples to disprove this but it seems to me that everytime an American is hired she is godawful.
Halle Berry - Looked like a Teletubby in her swimming costume as one reviewer said and not a popular character.
Denise Richards - No class or acting talent.
Tanya Roberts - Very beautiful but was more at home in her soft-porn films.
Lois Chiles - Forgettable performance and not as beautiful as many other actresses from the series.
Carey Lowell was ok I suppose but overall why are they so inferior to the actresses from other countries?
I have to agree if I pick my best bond girls very few americans would be on that list, mayber pusssy galore would be at my top. hey thats an idea for another thread.
Some American actresses gave fine performances and some didn't. Some had well written parts and were well cast and some weren't. Some were attractive some weren't. Such is the movie business. Personally I don't see that any great conclusion can be drawn from the American actresses contribution to the Bond films.
As for each individual actress, I think Carey Lowell was great as Pam Bouvier. But, I thought Lois Chiles was wooden as Dr Goodhead, others disagree and enjoyed her performance. Teri Hatcher was fine in TND and I don't think Denise Richards was as bad as almost everyone does. On this forum you will find a supporter somewhere for every actor and/or actress.
So I think if you get the right American actress and put her in the right part, everything will be fine.
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,652MI6 Agent
edited June 2007
For me, it's often just not the caliber of performance but how the character is presented. I liked Holly Goodhead because she seemed classy and indeed conveyed herself intellectually as "Bond's equal" (a quality brought too often, I know...I know). Paris Carver is another good example of mediocre acting that to me was saved by the character's class. Maybe this slant on the Christmas Jones character could have saved it despite of Denise Richard's acting.
I think Carey Lowell could have used more class and reserve without diminishing her personality, because she exhibited too much of the loud, "hell yeah, I am woman" pop culture stereotype that I don't like about girls stateside, as portrayed in the media. To me, Rock videos reflect this (ZZ Top comes to mind), which I think began with the American woman but is immitated by the rest of the world. Other Bond girls that come to mind being this are Jinx, Bibi and Tiffany Case. Stacey Sutton had only a trace amount of this attitude, if significantly any, but lacked the classy aspect I mentioned above.
Curiously, Barbara Bach is American, but her role as a Russian did not reflect any over-assertiveness despite the strength of her character. Maud Adams is another interesting observation; though she is a Swede, her roles were presented neutrally (more so than Brosnan's "mid-Atlantic" accent), which I take to gravitate towards American and therefore the intended "nationality" for her characters per the screenplays. Hence, she did make for a classy and refined "American" Andrea, and further added the character trait of stength to her portrayal of Octopussy. Was Pussy Galore portayed as American too?
On Fleming, I think that American women were more refined in his time while being intellectually "strong" as conveyed by their diction and manner.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,991Quartermasters
Nicely said, supes {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,652MI6 Agent
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
I agree with Barry and Sir Hillary.Utimately,it's not a question of an actor or a character's nationality,as much as it is the quality of the screenplay they're given to perform.The most talented actors in the world cannot possibly be called upon to save a motion picture with a terrible script and poorly conceived characters.In my opinion,the Bond Girls are rarely written as well as they ought to be,regardless of the countries they're from.
We've all acknowledged that the Bond series has always had it's share of unfortunate Bond Girls from every county--no nation is really immune when it comes to producing Bond Girls with questionable talents.This will probably always be the case as long as Eon exists and continues to produce James Bond movies.Of course, we all like or dislike various Bond Girls for any number of reasons--but hopefully we're above singling them out for praise or disdain due entirely to their nationalities.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,991Quartermasters
hopefully we're above singling them out for praise or disdain due entirely to their nationalities.
One would certainly hope so...but the first post in this thread seems to raise exactly that issue.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,652MI6 Agent
On scripts and the producers' intent, maybe there's a conscious effort to create American Bond girls? Furthermore, they probably say, let's make her spunky! Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but I'm thinking of film audience demographics, how the U.S. is the largest single market, and that spunky, agressive (personality-wise as well as the sexual subtext) appeals to both red-blooded American males as well as to the aspirations of American females on those counts. Secondary is the appeal of American culture to the rest of the world, which would necessitate the blatant representations of the American girl if the (box-office goal) is generating mass appeal.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
On scripts and the producers' intent, maybe there's a conscious effort to create American Bond girls? Furthermore, they probably say, let's make her spunky! Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but I'm thinking of film audience demographics, how the U.S. is the largest single market, and that spunky, agressive (personality-wise as well as the sexual subtext) appeals to both red-blooded American males as well as to the aspirations of American females on those counts. Secondary is the appeal of American culture to the rest of the world, which would necessitate the blatant representations of the American girl if the (box-office goal) is generating mass appeal.
Could be the case--especially with For Your Eyes Only's Bibi.However,I doubt that that particular character was written in the hopes of engaging an actress at the level of Vanessa Redgrave.Lynn Holly Johnson is lightweight and perky and blonde,and that's exactly what her character is intended to be.No more,and no less-it's not a perormance designed to receive an Academy Award nomination.
But Bibi's real significance in this movie--in my opinion--has absolutely nothing whatsover to do with her country of origin,but everything to do with helping to underscore the age difference between her and the (then) 54 year-old Sir Roger, whose 007 chooses not to take her up on her offer to sleep with her.For Your Eyes Only is a Bond film which features a more mature 007 who now does a bit more thinking before he leaps into a situation.
In the case of Halle Berry--Eon wanted to give Pierce Brosnan what amounted to a costar.I think that's a shame, because her performance isn't the equal of some of the others she gave before and after appearing in Die Another Day.It looks to me as if Halle decided that acting in a James Bond film wasn't something to be taken as seriously as it might have been had Die Another Day been a more "Important Film,"so she chose to phone in her performance instead.And the director let her get away with that.All that said,inferior acting will never be limited to one nationality.A British actress probably would have fared no better than Halle Berry did in the role of Jinx--if given this particular screenplay and the same unattentive director.
Comments
1) Congrats and thanks for starting a new topic that gets so much instant response. Anything five pages long so quickly that isn't a poll or a contest is a rarity indeed these days.
2) What the hell is your point? You have demonstrated that it is a fact that, in your opinion, American Bond girls are wanting. Fair enough. But when you say it's not a coincidence, I must ask...then what is it?
Here's my opinions on the ones I can think of off-hand:
-- Tiffany - Jill St. John is no Oscar candidate, but she's perfectly dizzy in a perfectly dizzy film.
-- Plenty - An obvious farce of a character; the film was set in Vegas, so she needed to be American.
-- Rosie - Weakest female character in the film, but at least the producers had the guts to give the role to a woman of color in 1973.
-- Holly - What's wrong with her? Lois Chiles was great.
-- Bibi - One might rightly ask, were it not for her Chicago twang, is there any reason to believe Bibi is American? Greek uncle, German coach, buddies with a German biathlete...huh? I think they needed an actress who could skate, so picked LHJ...too bad Katarina Witt wasn't known yet.
-- Stacey - Bad actress, bad performance, bad character, bad film...it happens.
-- Pam - Again, what's wrong here? I really liked Carey Lowell.
-- Paris - I have no problem with Teri Hatcher, her performance or her character.
-- Christmas - Character was a fish out of water. Strange casting choice; felt like they were throwing a token American into a totally European film.
-- Jinx - Train wreck, like the entire film...shall I tell you what I think of Rosamund Pike's performance?
Overall, a decidedly mixed bag, but hardly an uninterrupted series of failures...and in many cases not even the principal Bond girls in their films.
Agreed. Lois Chiles for me is one of the most beautiful Bond girls. And her cool, detached manner is extremely attractive IMO.
Yes, because we are the public you speak of.
I for one am a fan of a few of the American Bond girls: Jill St John and Lois Chiles are among my favourites and I agree that Bibi's appearance is justified by the 'ice cream' line.
At the end of the day it's all down to what your tastes are, but a lot of people sharing the same view doesn't make it fact. If that was the case, based on the beliefs of young children, Father Christmas actually exists
Of course he does, I was only joking
I didn't say that there are no people in the world who like Bibi or any one of the other characters in the films. What I said is that she is not a well respected character.
I also didn't say that a lot of people sharing the same view makes it a fact. I simply said it's a fact that they do share that view. To use your example, if I said that it is a fact that many children in Britain believe in Father Christmas it would be a fact. Not that he exists, but that those children feel that way.
You said that none had been considered 'great' by the general public. My argument is that I am the general public and I do find at least one of the characters 'great'.
Also I'm not saying that you actually said that mass opinion makes something fact, just that your wording implies it. I should have used the word true instead of fact.
If you look at the descriptions that I gave for the Bond girls, I didn't say that it was an uninterrupted series of failures. I did say that Pam Bouvier and Lois Chiles are considered to be good characters. I also said that some people like Paris and almost every other description you gave I've already agreed with as well.
You asked if there was any reason to believe that Bibi was American. Doesn't she say somewhere in the film, 'gee pop I'm pooped' or words to that effect. Now I think you'd have to go a long way before you found more stereotypical American dialogue than that.
Your comment about Christmas Jones I completely agree with. A fish out of water. That's what I'd say for many of the American female characters. That's what my argument would be. Many such as Bibi, Christmas, Rosie, Plenty etc. have no business, in my opinion, of being in Bond's world. That's not to criticise all American women in the slightest.
I have to strongly disagree with your argument there. Of course you are a member of the general public but that doesn't mean that you ARE the general public. In all honesty, I've never seen somebody describe themself like that before.
For example, If an actor says that his film wasn't popular with the general public, would that be unture if 1 solitary fan liked it? Now I'm not saying that you're alone in your opinions. But the general opinion among fans, critics and the average movie going public would be that none of the characters that I mentioned are 'great'. That doesn't mean that nobody thinks that they're great.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who do like those characters. But as I've said, I was talking about the general opinion of people. That's not to say that I'm definitely right. I've been wrong a million times before and I'll be wrong a million times in the future.
I am not describing myself as the general public, just saying that I am part of it.
But in saying the general public, and not the majority or most of, you include everyone.
I would agree that perhaps the 'majority' of the general public don't find them great. I'm just arguing that I'm not in that majority.
By the way, I know that this isn't any evidence at all and it proves nothing but can I just add this link to prove that I'm not completely on my own and descending into madness.
http://www.mi6.co.uk/sections/articles/movies_girls_stats.php3
I have to agree if I pick my best bond girls very few americans would be on that list, mayber pusssy galore would be at my top. hey thats an idea for another thread.
As for each individual actress, I think Carey Lowell was great as Pam Bouvier. But, I thought Lois Chiles was wooden as Dr Goodhead, others disagree and enjoyed her performance. Teri Hatcher was fine in TND and I don't think Denise Richards was as bad as almost everyone does. On this forum you will find a supporter somewhere for every actor and/or actress.
So I think if you get the right American actress and put her in the right part, everything will be fine.
I think Carey Lowell could have used more class and reserve without diminishing her personality, because she exhibited too much of the loud, "hell yeah, I am woman" pop culture stereotype that I don't like about girls stateside, as portrayed in the media. To me, Rock videos reflect this (ZZ Top comes to mind), which I think began with the American woman but is immitated by the rest of the world. Other Bond girls that come to mind being this are Jinx, Bibi and Tiffany Case. Stacey Sutton had only a trace amount of this attitude, if significantly any, but lacked the classy aspect I mentioned above.
Curiously, Barbara Bach is American, but her role as a Russian did not reflect any over-assertiveness despite the strength of her character. Maud Adams is another interesting observation; though she is a Swede, her roles were presented neutrally (more so than Brosnan's "mid-Atlantic" accent), which I take to gravitate towards American and therefore the intended "nationality" for her characters per the screenplays. Hence, she did make for a classy and refined "American" Andrea, and further added the character trait of stength to her portrayal of Octopussy. Was Pussy Galore portayed as American too?
On Fleming, I think that American women were more refined in his time while being intellectually "strong" as conveyed by their diction and manner.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Thanks, Loefs!
We've all acknowledged that the Bond series has always had it's share of unfortunate Bond Girls from every county--no nation is really immune when it comes to producing Bond Girls with questionable talents.This will probably always be the case as long as Eon exists and continues to produce James Bond movies.Of course, we all like or dislike various Bond Girls for any number of reasons--but hopefully we're above singling them out for praise or disdain due entirely to their nationalities.
One would certainly hope so...but the first post in this thread seems to raise exactly that issue.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Could be the case--especially with For Your Eyes Only's Bibi.However,I doubt that that particular character was written in the hopes of engaging an actress at the level of Vanessa Redgrave.Lynn Holly Johnson is lightweight and perky and blonde,and that's exactly what her character is intended to be.No more,and no less-it's not a perormance designed to receive an Academy Award nomination.
But Bibi's real significance in this movie--in my opinion--has absolutely nothing whatsover to do with her country of origin,but everything to do with helping to underscore the age difference between her and the (then) 54 year-old Sir Roger, whose 007 chooses not to take her up on her offer to sleep with her.For Your Eyes Only is a Bond film which features a more mature 007 who now does a bit more thinking before he leaps into a situation.
In the case of Halle Berry--Eon wanted to give Pierce Brosnan what amounted to a costar.I think that's a shame, because her performance isn't the equal of some of the others she gave before and after appearing in Die Another Day.It looks to me as if Halle decided that acting in a James Bond film wasn't something to be taken as seriously as it might have been had Die Another Day been a more "Important Film,"so she chose to phone in her performance instead.And the director let her get away with that.All that said,inferior acting will never be limited to one nationality.A British actress probably would have fared no better than Halle Berry did in the role of Jinx--if given this particular screenplay and the same unattentive director.