So it did copy Austin Powers... (SPOILERS)

Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
Its pretty much assumed that Bond and Franz/Blofeld were going to be estranged brothers, like the plot twist in Austin Powers where Dr. Evil was actually his brother.

Many Bond fans (including myself) said "Oh, they wouldn't do that. There must be something more to this." And there wasn't. They didn't add anything to it.

Since Star Wars established the hero-villain blood relation thing (Luke, I am your father), its become a cliche that dozens of works have adopted.

Worse than the fact that effectively being Bond's brother wasn't a good origin story is the fact that James Bond copied from the same film series which has been accuses of being a Bond knockoff.
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Comments

  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,043MI6 Agent
    I've never watched Austin Powers so I wouldn't know (or care).
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool. Craig is too.
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  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Don't watch Austin Powers....
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,353MI6 Agent
    I am not sure, if the idea really is being copied from Austin Powers.
    Fleming started with Oberhauser being a father figure for Bond so the family roots go much longer than Austin Powers exists.

    Or is it just to find a reason to start a new thread?
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  • PeppermillPeppermill DelftPosts: 2,852MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    (...)

    Or is it just to find a reason to start a new thread?

    He doesn't any reason for that, you should know that by now. :v

    On topic: I don't think it added much to the character of Blofeld. Being a criminal mastermind should be enough. The "it was me all along" and "I did it all to get back at my surrogate brother" plotline was a bit far fetched for me. The villain being the hero's brother/father/best friend/mentor has been used in many movies and is not just something from Austin Powers so I don't mind much.

    I'm surprised that there are people who haven't seen Austin Powers, especially as a Bond fan.
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  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Peppermill wrote:
    Higgins wrote:
    (...)

    Or is it just to find a reason to start a new thread?

    He doesn't any reason for that, you should know that by now. :v

    On topic: I don't think it added much to the character of Blofeld. Being a criminal mastermind should be enough. The "it was me all along" and "I did it all to get back at my surrogate brother" plotline was a bit far fetched for me. The villain being the hero's brother/father/best friend/mentor has been used in many movies and is not just something from Austin Powers so I don't mind much.

    I'm surprised that there are people who haven't seen Austin Powers, especially as a Bond fan.

    Its precisely that we're Bond fans that we don't watch Austin Powers...
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • MilleniumForceMilleniumForce LondonPosts: 1,214MI6 Agent
    In the books Oberhauser was a father figure to Bond, but Blofeld wasn't his son. In Ajstin Powers, it is revealed that Dr Evil (the parody of Blofeld) is Austin's (the parody of James Bond) brother, albeit his blood brother. So it's clear there's a difference between the relation in the books and the relation in Austin Powers, and it's clear they went with the relation in Austin Powers mixed with the relation in the books. Why the hate for Austin powers anyway? The first two are good films!
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  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    I've never watched Austin Powers so I wouldn't know (or care).
    Don't watch Austin Powers....

    Apparently, Eon did.
    Higgins wrote:
    I am not sure, if the idea really is being copied from Austin Powers.
    Fleming started with Oberhauser being a father figure for Bond so the family roots go much longer than Austin Powers exists.

    Did Fleming make Bond and Blofeld brothers, because I believe that was a decision on the part of Eon (and Austin Powers did that first)
    In the books Oberhauser was a father figure to Bond, but Blofeld wasn't his son. In Ajstin Powers, it is revealed that Dr Evil (the parody of Blofeld) is Austin's (the parody of James Bond) brother, albeit his blood brother. So it's clear there's a difference between the relation in the books and the relation in Austin Powers, and it's clear they went with the relation in Austin Powers mixed with the relation in the books.

    Why the hate for Austin powers anyway? The first two are good films!

    Exactly. I can't relate to contempt a lot of Bond fans have for Austin Powers. Yes, it's a parody. But I don't take parodies as some sort of personal attack on the series. I see it as an element of free speech, commentary, a different interpretation on something and a comedy.

    I feel like Spectre will forever be a counterargument to Austin Powers haters. You say that Austin Powers merely existed to copy off of James Bond? But now the core plot of the third AP movie is fueling the 2nd Blofeld Trilogy.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fratricides
    List of Fratricides ( Lots of people had the idea long, long before Austin Powers ) :))

    " Fratricide (from the Latin words frater "brother" and cida "killer," or cidum "a killing," both from caedere "to kill, to cut down") is the act of a person, directly or via use of either a hired or an indoctrinated intermediary (an assassin) that ultimately results in the killing of their brother"
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 30,814Chief of Staff
    Did Fleming make Bond and Blofeld brothers, because I believe that was a decision on the part of Eon

    Quite right, Cart, Fleming did not make Bond and Blofeld brothers- though he did give ESB the same DOB as himself which may have some significance.
  • welshboy78welshboy78 Posts: 9,851MI6 Agent
    Hmm does Bond really see ESB as a brother in SPECTRE? I dont think he does in the film
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  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 30,814Chief of Staff
    I'm sure he doesn't.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,353MI6 Agent
    Let's stay with the facts:

    1. Hans Oberhauser was a FATHER FIGURE for Bond. He did not adopt him or was his real father.
    Franz is Oberhauser's blood son and the jealous rival to Bond but not his brother.

    2. Austin Powers and Dr. Evil are twins and have been separated as babies. So they are really brothers!

    My point was, that EON basically took Fleming's picture of the father figure and constructed an angry jealous son (Franz) who felt that Bond took his father's attention from him

    Your point is that EON have copied the Austin Powers concept by taking over the brother concept from there.
    Which is not the case, because Franz Oberhauser and Bond are NOT BROTHERS!

    Eon have been sticking with Fleming and expanded the story.

    And btw, I love all Austin Powers movies, there has never been a deeper bow to the 007 franchise imo.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    While not in blood relation, effectively had a brother relationship.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,353MI6 Agent
    I don't think that Bond and ESB would agree and if you think of it, you wouldn't either.

    It's unclear how long Bond and Franz have been on Oberhauser's guidance maybe just a year or two and there is much more time and history required to build up such a brotherly relationship.

    It's just that you perefer to stick with your argument - no matter how less sense it makes
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,696MI6 Agent
    Agreed, they were mates for a couple of years, just the holiday part
    Being taught a bit of skiing and mountain climbing etc. Not really
    Brothers. :)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • perdoggperdogg Posts: 432MI6 Agent
    What the writers should have done is to have ESB be Bond's father so at the final fighting scene Franz looks to Bond says "James, I am your Faather". :))
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  • ACACIA_AVENUEACACIA_AVENUE UKPosts: 1,729MI6 Agent
    Hmmm .... I wonder if Higgins and ASP9mm are brothers? :v
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  • McmadnessMcmadness Posts: 26MI6 Agent
    I'd just like to point out that Austin Powers poked fun at old 60s spy stuff in general, like the man from uncle, the avengers (not the marvel one) our man flint etc etc.

    Heck I remember on the DVD for the spy who shagged me that there was a little list of various old spy films that Austin Powers took inspiration from.
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  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Acton, London, UKPosts: 1,363MI6 Agent
    Mcmadness wrote:
    I'd just like to point out that Austin Powers poked fun at old 60s spy stuff in general, like the man from uncle, the avengers (not the marvel one) our man flint etc etc.

    Heck I remember on the DVD for the spy who shagged me that there was a little list of various old spy films that Austin Powers took inspiration from.

    there you go - nothing original
    1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
  • McmadnessMcmadness Posts: 26MI6 Agent
    Indeed, but I still like the series.

    Well the first one anyway.
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  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,353MI6 Agent
    Hmmm .... I wonder if Higgins and ASP9mm are brothers? :v

    iJLYz889RRr5u.gif
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 2,196MI6 Agent
    Mcmadness wrote:
    I'd just like to point out that Austin Powers poked fun at old 60s spy stuff in general, like the man from uncle, the avengers (not the marvel one) our man flint etc etc.
    Heck I remember on the DVD for the spy who shagged me that there was a little list of various old spy films that Austin Powers took inspiration from.
    there you go - nothing original
    theres a lot original in Austin Powers, theyre highly quotable movies .... I cant enter an apartment building and smell other peoples cooking without thinking of Austin Powers

    but its also a great deconstruction of genre tropes, eg the red button with Scott Evils name on it
    one of my favourites is the idea that while Dr Evil was away, Number 2 turned the Evil organisations front companies into hugely successful legit companies, turns out he's got a natural talent for business, and Dr Evil squanders decades worth of legitimate profits on an expensive scheme to blackmail world leaders for ...one ...million ...dollars
    we're having to deal with Starbucks at my work, some petty infraction of local bylaws, and again I cant help thinking of Austin Powers whenever their name comes up
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,522MI6 Agent
    one of my favourites is the idea that while Dr Evil was away, Number 2 turned the Evil organisations front companies into hugely successful legit companies, turns out he's got a natural talent for business

    This was used in the Get Smart episode "The Amazing Harry Hoo". The henchman says of their dry cleaning front, "The spy network is just a front. The real money is in the laundry."
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  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 2,196MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    one of my favourites is the idea that while Dr Evil was away, Number 2 turned the Evil organisations front companies into hugely successful legit companies, turns out he's got a natural talent for business

    This was used in the Get Smart episode "The Amazing Harry Hoo". The henchman says of their dry cleaning front, "The spy network is just a front. The real money is in the laundry."
    well, the joke about "other peoples cooking" is still original, right? right? I', so disillusioned
    speaking of Get Smart, that's a 60s sitcom that has aged very well
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,522MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    one of my favourites is the idea that while Dr Evil was away, Number 2 turned the Evil organisations front companies into hugely successful legit companies, turns out he's got a natural talent for business

    This was used in the Get Smart episode "The Amazing Harry Hoo". The henchman says of their dry cleaning front, "The spy network is just a front. The real money is in the laundry."
    well, the joke about "other peoples cooking" is still original, right? right? I', so disillusioned
    speaking of Get Smart, that's a 60s sitcom that has aged very well

    I can't speak for the cooking joke. Get Smart will always be the ultimate spy spoof, and like Austin Powers they parodied things other than Bond.
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  • DutchJamesBondFanDutchJamesBondFan the NetherlandsPosts: 398MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    Let's stay with the facts:

    1. Hans Oberhauser was a FATHER FIGURE for Bond. He did not adopt him or was his real father.
    Franz is Oberhauser's blood son and the jealous rival to Bond but not his brother.

    2. Austin Powers and Dr. Evil are twins and have been separated as babies. So they are really brothers!

    My point was, that EON basically took Fleming's picture of the father figure and constructed an angry jealous son (Franz) who felt that Bond took his father's attention from him

    Your point is that EON have copied the Austin Powers concept by taking over the brother concept from there.
    Which is not the case, because Franz Oberhauser and Bond are NOT BROTHERS!

    Eon have been sticking with Fleming and expanded the story.

    And btw, I love all Austin Powers movies, there has never been a deeper bow to the 007 franchise imo.

    Cheers Higgins -{ Very good comment.
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  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,853Quartermasters
    I loved all three AP films---in fact, the more they reached for laughs, the more I laughed along...but I think it's safe to assume that there were no SP script meetings where it was said: "Let's do what Austin Powers did." 8-)

    Franz Oberhauser was a construct borne of the Fleming Oberhauser character, Hannes. I don't think the dysfunctional foster family angle was necessary, but neither do I think Eon ripped off a Bond parody. I mean, honestly...
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  • Absolutely_CartAbsolutely_Cart NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
    edited November 2015
    Actually, I'm going to request that this thread be locked (if the admins agree with me on this). But I think the thread I already made about Franz' character motivations is a more mature way to discuss the foster-brother relationship.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,853Quartermasters
    An extraneous thread? I don't believe it.
    "Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 30,814Chief of Staff
    Well, you're the OP, Cart, so if you want it closed I'll do so- but IMHO this is a valid topic with enough interest to keep it open. Just send a PM to discuss it.
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