Unfortunately they didn't want me to share the photo. It showed the first page of the order confirmation letter sent to EON, detailing the shirt cloth, collar, cuff and delivery dates. There seemed to be quite a few pages to that letter, so they must have order many shirts!
On another note, could anyone DM what Robert Gillotte claims that the TWINE collar is called internally at T&A (which I understand from this forum and bondsuits.com is named after a wealthy client the collar was originally designed for)?
The inward curve of the Classic T&A collar has to do with the way it is cut. It's very unique and instantly recognisable no matter the material it is made of and whether or not it has collar stays. It's not a roll (which I think may be what you mean) but how the collar leaf is shaped along the wearer's collarbone.
The collar on the folded shirt that you shared looks a little narrower than the TWINE day shirt collar. When shirts are folded up like that, the collar points tend to look more spread out. It looks similar to my POW collar +1/4 when in that position, and when I wear it the collar looks narrower than Brosnan's in TWINE.
On an order form for "Bond 19" that T&A shared publicly with the launch of their Bond collection, it has the collar as "own shape +1/4", which would be the special one that Mr Gillotte designed for that special client and wore himself at the time. The dress shirt in TWINE looks like it has a POW collar, and it closely resembles the POW collar +1/4 that I have. Could the form you saw be for that shirt instead?
Thanks Matt. It was not the order form as such I saw, but the order confirmation letter which is the letter they send (literally a letter on T&A stationary) summarizing EON's order and delivery dates, under the column for "Collar" it is only listed as POW. The guys in the Bury st store went through the documentation they had for TWINE and couldn't find anything other than that shirts with POW (as well as of course the T&A and No 3) had been ordered. They then discussed with the factory in order to use Brosnan's CAD for my shirt (or so they said).
I think the best way to finally conclude this matter is when Blair is in the Bury st shop to film part 2 of his video. I would suggest that he then asks to measure Brosnan's paper pattern and compare it to the shirt they made for me (which will remain in store until the video is shot).
What do you think Blair?
Also, I must admit I am struggling to convince T&A that Brosnan wears two DIFFERENT collars in the below photos.. (we know now that the cloth is the same)
And sorry for 3 posts in a row, but the edit function does not seem to work.
I took a new of my existing POW collar shirt, and tried to lay it out like the Bilbao shirt is in the auction photo (where the collar seems a bit "flattened"), and ended up with the below result. In my mind this shows that the Bilbao collar is very close to a raised POW.
I'll be the first to concede we might all just be groping in the dark here... that said my impression was that they were two different collars because in TND, the spread seems to vaccilate between scenes from a more narrow semi-spread to the moderate spread shown in your picture (which is about the widest it appears in the movie), whereas in TWINE it seems to vary from a moderate spread (as shown in your pic above) to an almost full Regent-like spread (e..g, when he is talking to Elektra and she asks him about whether he lost a loved one). I suppose they could all be the same collar but it would be unusual that they don't share the same characteristics when worn. They are both royal oxford (and even the same exact fabric code, supposedly), so there's no reason they should look particularly different.
I sent the two below photos to T&A and asked them if this really was the same POW collar.
They responded as follows:
"Ok, so bear with me here. I know the bottom looks slightly more spread. However, it is the same collar. He appears to be slightly weightier in the bottom pic, and the tie he's wearing is different, thicker, and pulled higher. All of which will change the collar and the way it sits slightly,"
I guess they have access to the paperwork and the pattern so we'll have to take their word for it. I still remain a bit skeptical.
Wonder if they can clarify the difference between the two innermost collar patterns shown here? Do they thus believe only one of them was used for his Bond shirts?
It is a bit strange, but it should also be noted that the collar size has increased from 16 to 16 1/4 from TND to TWINE.
I think this photo shows the TWINE in another "light" and also shows how the "tie space" increases when the collar size has gone up a little bit. Imagine the tie space reduced to that in the TND photo, and the angle of the collar points appear to be almost the same?
"He appears to be slightly weightier..." HARSH!
I remember reading that Brosnan was only 76kg in Goldeneye. Does anyone know the approx weight in each of TND, TWINE and DAD?
Agree, but camera angles do matter:
Will do, BaB. Any further questions that anyone would like me to raise with Bury Street?
Just the fabric codes for the shirts in Thomas Crown Affair!
I think this might be the herringbone one from TCA (see to the left, behind the blue oxford):
A little belated update: I finally received the shirt today, and the collar unfortunately is completely off. I received what appears to be a stock POW with 1 1/2 inch back height, which is their standard/RTW height.
Quite a disappointment I must say.
To my understanding, isn't that what T&A was claiming in your recent communication with them? That Brosnan wore (essentially) a stock POW? (and I think even further back in this thread was the claim that the No3 collar was also stock).
Not quite. T&A lists a bespoke collar as PoW, Regent etc even though it has been adjusted to an individual customer (for example increasing the height a touch etc).
They confirmed via email that they would use Brosnan's CAD, which clearly shows a collar taller than their regular PoW. My guess is that they just specified a stock PoW for my shirt, and that was that.
Which is a shame as I already have PoW collar pattern with them that I would then prefer (it is taller etc).
Wonder if T&A will agree to remake the shirt for you then? (or at least re-collar it)
They have confirmed that they are happy to re-collar the shirt, arranging now to have it picked up by a courier and sent back to them.
So hopefully the next iteration will be the correct one!
The second part of my Turnbull & Asser film has just dropped on YouTube. It was a true labour of love, with a particularly fun PTS. The Bilbao Collar story will be for another day, though.
I hope that you enjoy this video. I do my best impersonation of Emergency Room Escapologist Brosnan, and there’s even a dash of Jack Bauer, for fans of 24.
Great video Blair! The pyjamas scene was a nice touch😀
Ha ha! You know, in St James, nobody batted an eyelid. Everyone must have assumed that I was an eccentric billionaire out for a stroll. The mounted policewomen were great, but I think they thought that I'd escaped from the nearest "Institution for the Slightly Bewildered".
Truly excellent - and very funny 👏🏻🤣
Thanks so much for the support, Paul. It truly means a lot. Glad you enjoyed. It was great fun to make, too. I've been waiting so long to do an homage to the Brosnan Escape. It has my favourite modern riff on the Bond theme from David Arnold.
It’s really fun to see people some real thought into their blogs 👏🏻
Very impressive and extremely informative too - you’ve set yourself a tough act to follow 😳🤣
BaB, any updates on the shirt?