Box Office Challenges

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  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,915Quartermasters
    edited October 27

    NTTD has unquestionably been hurt by the [expletive deleted], but will hopefully get closer to cost than it currently is. Without the delays and [expletive and politics deleted] , it would have done numbers on a par with SP, at least, in my humble opinion - a tidy profit, considering that production loan interest wouldn't have been incurred.

    Still...it is what it is. And what it is...will grow in the rear-view mirror of posterity. At least, I think it will.

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  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,908MI6 Agent
    edited October 27

    Despite China being the world’s largest movie venue and western films like Bond being popular, Skyfall grossed about $60 million and Spectre about $84 million, not adjusted for inflation, there. In Australia, the numbers were about $50 million and $75 million, not adjusted for inflation.

    For the sake of argument, let’s just say $100 million each, taking into account inflation and the pandemic, for NTTD. Added to the current $550 million worldwide take, that would be $750 million. Let’s assume it earns another $75 million in the U.S. and comparably in the rest of the international markets. That would put it at $900 million. This would be the upper end of the break even point most analysts say it must meet. NTTD will make a profit, but it will take more time and likely mostly come from ancillary sales of DVDs, streaming, and TV broadcasts. In fact, I suspect it will be shown regularly on cable for years, and it will likely do better business streaming or on demand.

    Had they not taken so long to make it, and had it debuted in late 2018 or early to mid 2019, not only would the box office have been strong, I suspect, but it might even have been even more profitable through various home sales later since so many people stayed out of theaters once the pandemic cranked up. The footdragging to get it made likely will cost the studio more in unrealized box office than they’ll ever care to admit. But it will make money. But gone are the days when a Bond film makes four, five, or more times its production and marketing costs at the box office.

  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 2,596MI6 Agent
    edited October 27

    anecdotal department:

    in Ontario, the government allowed full capacity at movie theatres the same day the movie finally began playing. For this reason amongst others, I waited two weeks to see it, then chose to see the first matinee on a weekday, which was the cheaper regular version, rather than the more expensive 3d version which was only showing in the evening. The manager was checking vaccine passports at the door, and had a similar attitude to all those restaurant owners who are so desperately grateful to see any customers return at all. He said I was not the only one who had waited til "crowds died down", and I get the idea the legal change to permitting full capacity might have had the perverse effect of scaring away potential customers who would have preferred enforced social distancing in the theatre, especially amongst the demographic expected for a BondFilm.


    Lesson to be learned? They should just let this film run in the theatres for months, like they used to in the 70s, rather than expecting it to break box office records in the opening weekend as has been practice in recent years. The situation has changed thanks to COVID, and that whole expectation to break records the opening weekend was leading to crappier and crappier films anyway.

  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,908MI6 Agent


    It depends in part on what happens with the pandemic -- last winter in the U.S., cases spiked as people went indoors but so many were unvaccinated and refused to wear masks and social distance. This summer, we saw cases in the U.S. reach the same levels, which was a considerable jump over the summer period the year before. And this was after more people were vaccinated. All that portends for a challenging winter this year.

    Of course, we can't predict with certainty. Some experts are saying they actually think cases will go down this winter. My gut says they're wrong, but we'll see. But if the pandemic rears up again and worse than last winter, people -- especially the older ones who go to see Bond -- may start to avoid theaters again. That will include the holiday periods when movies traditionally make much of their money.

  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 18,602MI6 Agent

    I just saw om the news that this has been the best October in this millennium for the cinemas here in Norway, much because of NTTD and the home-grown Cannes winner "The worst person in the world". Has other countries seen comparable results for the cinemas?

  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,908MI6 Agent

    That's a really good question. All I'm finding right now is that NTTD crossed the $600 million mark worldwide but that box office was off projections in China. It's harder to say, too, because it's not clear if numbers are always adjusted for inflation or if ticket prices and the like are higher to make comparisons to the past. I have, however, read some articles that suggest NTTD is tracking closer to Spectre with box office results than to Skyfall, which even if not adjusted for inflation is so far more successful.

    https://deadline.com/2021/10/no-time-to-die-dune-venom-let-there-be-carnage-china-global-international-box-office-1234865457/

  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 9,365MI6 Agent

    Yeah, but tbf wasn't Skyfall the most successful Bond film ever, outstripping previous title holder Thunderball? And the most successful British film ever? Tough one to beat.

    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,908MI6 Agent

    It depends on how you define "most successful." In terms of straightforward revenue, Skyfall edges out Thunderball (adjusted for inflation). But that may not take into account profitability (production/marketing costs versus earnings), how many screens a film was shown on, how many countries it was screened in, how many tickets were sold, and so forth. It's possible that even though Skyfall earned more money in total, it was actually less profitable than other Bond films or sold fewer tickets. That sort of information is tough to come by, or at least I haven't been able to locate it online.

    For example, though it's often perceived as a failure, OHMSS service cost about $7 million to make but earned $82 million at the box office (not adjusted for inflation). Even doubling its production cost to include marketing and the like, that means it earned four or more times its cost. By comparison, Skyfall cost anywhere from $150-$200 million. Assuming the marketing and so forth doubles that, it cost $300-$400 million and earned $1.1 billion at the box office. That's only at most about three times the cost.

    Thunderball did even better, costing about $9 million to make (or in this equation, doubling that to $18 million to including marketing and related costs) against box office of $141 million (not adjusted for inflation).

    In terms of literal dollar amounts, Skyfall did better, but in terms of cost-to-performance rations, Skyfall is not as successful. And this is assuming there aren't additional issues I'm not aware of, like the costs of other studio films that did poorly being tacked on.

  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Posts: 251MI6 Agent

    NTTD has opened in Australia to $11.23 million, taking 70% of the total weekend box office.

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  • CheverianCheverian Posts: 1,234MI6 Agent

    I don't know the odds, but there's a chance that NTTD ($708.7 million worldwide and counting) overtakes F:9 ($721 million) as the top grosser of the pandemic in 2021.

  • ichaiceichaice LondonPosts: 455MI6 Agent

    I read somewhere they’re expecting a final figure of $760M worldwide.

    Yes. Considerably!

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  • welshboy78welshboy78 Posts: 10,003MI6 Agent

    Must be a dead cert to overtake FF9

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  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,908MI6 Agent

    It has. NTTD crossed the $700 million mark internationally this past weekend, with about $559 million of that outside the U.S. (How strange it is to use the U.S. as the anchor point for a British film, that's how the reporting here slants it.)

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/no-time-to-die-box-office-passes-f9-1235047763/

  • Royale-les-EauxRoyale-les-Eaux LondonPosts: 529MI6 Agent

    I enjoyed reading this in Forbes.

    "It has surpassed every Bourne movie, every Mission: Impossible save for Fallout ($792 million) and both Kingsman movies. It has grossed more than the combined respective global grosses of the Austin Powers trilogy ($676 million on a combined $116 million budget) and the Xander Cage/xXx trilogy ($683 million/$215 million)."


    Obviously sad news for all of us as I believe every Bond actor and director now has 'not surpassing the xXx trilogy box office' as a default clause in their contracts whereby they have to spend at least 5 years travelling door to door apologising to fans in person....I assume 😁

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 31,983Chief of Staff

    My brain is too small to understand Hollywood accounting, but it's been a matter of pride (to quote M in TLD) that no Bond movie ever has flopped at the box office. Not one. Obviously some make more than others, but how not?

    I feel that NTTD would have made (even) more if it has been released earlier, but it has done very well considering the timing and there shouldn't be even a blink at greenlighting another Bond movie.

  • John from CorkJohn from Cork Posts: 47MI6 Agent

    Even Casino Royale 1967 was a box office success

  • IceQIceQ Posts: 212MI6 Agent

    My father and nephew went for second viewing at cinema this weekend and despite it now being available on streaming the screen was about 80% full, pretty impressive

  • RevelatorRevelator Posts: 353MI6 Agent

    From Deadline: ‘No Time To Die’ Outguns ‘F9’ To Become Biggest Hollywood Title Of 2021 & The Pandemic Worldwide

    MGM/Eon/Universal’s No Time to Die is crossing $733M worldwide this weekend, making it the highest-grossing Hollywood film of 2021 — and of the pandemic era.

    After topping $708M through last Sunday, and becoming the biggest Hollywood movie overseas in 2021 and throughout the pandemic, we’ve been expecting Mr. Bond to overtake the previous global leader, Universal’s own F9 ($725M WW cume and the only other studio movie to cross $700M this year). In total to date, Daniel Craig’s last turn as 007 has an estimated gross of $154M domestic and $579M at the international box office.

    ...On October 20, it became Hollywood’s No. 2 movie of 2021 globally and continued to hit new benchmarks, crossing $700M last weekend. Overall throughout its run, it scored the biggest pandemic opening weekend in 36 markets.

    No Time to Die is released internationally via Universal and domestically through MGM’s United Artists Releasing banner.

    Overseas currently accounts for 79% of the global total, and highlights include the UK, which is the lead offshore play at $128M. NTTD is the fifth-biggest movie of all time in the market and the top movie of the pandemic, reaching that mark in its first four days of release.

    In Germany ($72M cume to date), NTTD held No. 1 for six weeks and is Universal’s top title ever in the market. One of the rare recent studio titles to score a timely release in China, NTTD is the fourth-biggest Hollywood movie of the year there ($60M estimated cume). France, at an estimated $32M, and Netherlands with an estimated $22M so far, round out the Top 5 markets. In the latter, 007 held No. 1 for seven consecutive weeks and this frame will become the market’s fourth-biggest film ever and the top Bond of all time.

    In other highlights, Australia’s November 11 opening was the biggest in the market since December 2019 (current cume $15M).

    In Denmark, No Time to Die was No. 1 for seven weeks, had the biggest Bond opening ever and is the top 007 title of all time. It is the second movie in the country’s history to cross DKK 100M in gross box office.

    For the Middle East, the movie is the biggest across the region in 2021; and Eastern Europe has also performed very strongly with top 2021 openings in Czech Republic, Hungary, Pland and Slovakia.

    In Russia, Hong Kong, Ukraine, Colombia, Argentina, Sweden and the Baltics, No Time to Die is the biggest Bond film ever.

  • GymkataGymkata Minnesota, USAPosts: 3,488MI6 Agent

    Anecdotal evidence for sure, but everyone that I know who has seen it (theatrically or streaming) has, at minimum, liked NTTD. Many have loved it. This is 20+ people (family, friends, and coworkers) that I'm talking about. Nobody has even disliked it. Most of these people are casual fans of Bond, though. It really just seems like the die hard Bondians are the ones with extremely negative opinions of the film.

    Current rankings:
    OHMSS>FRWL>CR>TSWLM>YOLT>MR>SF>FYEO>GE>OP>DN>
    TWINE>TND>QOS>TB>TMWTGG>GF>LALD>TLD>AVTAK>SP>DAF>LTK>DAD
    Bond rankings: Lazenby>Moore>Connery>Craig>Brosnan>Dalton
  • welshboy78welshboy78 Posts: 10,003MI6 Agent

    Yup. Even my mum went twice :)

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  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 18,602MI6 Agent
    edited November 25

    In the enormously important Norwegian market (😏) NTTD is about to outperform SPECTRE.

  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 25,402Chief of Staff

    Exact same experience here for me…not heard a bad word from anyone about it 🍸

    YNWA 97
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 2,596MI6 Agent

    My mum did say its a "bit of a downer ending". She's had a hard year and maybe would have preferred a bit of escapism.

    She also said the scenery is beautiful, thats what she always enjoyed about the old films, and this new film does deliver on the travelogue exotic location content better than any Bond film in years.

    She also said Daniel Craig is "not hard to look at", so there you go, 85 year old women find Craig attractive. When I said thats ironic, because male Bond fans are always calling Craig ugly, she said "Craig looks masculine, women like that"

  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 1,505MI6 Agent

    I've barely spoken to anyone about it and no one has mentioned it to me. I'm not sure what that proves other than the fact I don't discuss going to the cinema much with anyone and I've stopped discussing Bond with people outside of a forum because I find most of my friends / family / colleagues simply don't "get" James Bond the way I do.

  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 18,602MI6 Agent

    With the new Covid mutation discovered in South Africa it looks like EON picked the optimal time for NTTD's cinema run. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

  • ichaiceichaice LondonPosts: 455MI6 Agent

    Looks like the flick is now up to $758M worldwide.

    Yes. Considerably!

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