Box Office Challenges

13

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  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,908MI6 Agent


    Our backgrounds with Bond sound similar @The Domino Effect, and after that first hour, I don't feel like I need to watch much more until the last 20 minutes. And those last 20 minutes don't feel like they're earned by what precedes them -- the end just happens. I agree, though, that if this film doesn't do well enough, it will be a while before we see another Bond film and in a different form. The problem is there will be a lot of casting about to lay blame -- the pandemic, the changing audience viewing habits, the "big fantasy epic" not being what Bond fans want anymore, etc., as opposed to the reality that about third of No Time to Die is a good film and the rest not so much.

  • JTBondJTBond Posts: 82MI6 Agent

    *SPOILERS*


    Just not sure how they'd explain the scene with the smartblood showing his vitals zeroed out. I suppose they could explain it away by saying the blasts somehow interfered with the system or that he flatlined similar to in Casino Royale. Highly unlikely however.

    It's been a week since I've watched and that excitement I had for this movie to be released has turned into just a sinking feeling. Looking for anything at all Bond related to put a brighter perspective on things and I'm not finding it. This ending changes the way I'll view Craig's others as well. All of the sorrow and pain he goes through for 4 films culminates in his eventual death. It will be difficult to view his earlier movies through any other lense.

    Hopefully we get a new Bond announced soon and something to be excited about. Because right now, I for one have never had a lower mood involving the franchise.

  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,908MI6 Agent

    I think it's highly unlikely they will bring Craig back.

    But let's look at it from a writing point of view (which admittedly might not satisfy some audiences, but then the current end does not either).

    We know M is considerably more duplicitous than he was presented in either Skyfall or Spectre. In fact, he's basically retconned into a different character. In the former, he merely looked the other way while Q and Tanner were tracking Bond, suggesting they further misled Silva with "breadcrumbs." In Spectre, M openly fights against Nine Eyes and the implications it has for freedom and democracy -- but here endorses a shadow mode of assassination that has the horrific implications to wipe out entire family lines and races of people. And apparently has no concern for safety protocols and the like. And orders the British Navy to attack an island that is neither in British waters or under British authority.

    So, anything's on the table now. For all we know, M may have ordered Q to fake Bond's death on the monitor as part of some bigger, unspecified plan. Or perhaps Q becomes involved in a larger scenario without his knowledge. It's interesting that we A) Don't know exactly what Q injected in Bond, other than what Q says or thinks it is, B) Q is so adamant that there is no cure for nanobots, C) that an EMP watch has no effect on nanobots, D) the screen goes white as the final "explosion" occurs. Maybe the EMP did disable the nanobots. Maybe Bond was injected with something more than smart blood. Maybe some of the bombs were not high explosive at all but merely appeared so. Maybe all this is part of some labyrinthine plan to fake Bond's death, a la the movie You Only Live Twice.

    What has become clear is that as Craig's Bonds have continued, they've become more fantastic in their plotting. It would be a stretch no matter how the writers try to explain how Bond survives, but it's not impossible, certainly not in fiction and certainly not given the Bonds have slowly moved back into traditional territory, if only dipping their toe. But I think they purposefully left a bit of wiggle room there.

  • The Domino EffectThe Domino Effect Posts: 3,311MI6 Agent

    Bond's wristwatch disabled the electronics in Cyclops's eye but didn't damage the electronics in Bond's ear-piece which was basically the same distance away, so anything is possible 😉.

    Since there are so many nods to previous Bond films - OHMSS and YOLT in particular - it does make complete sense for Bond to have survived. Far-fetched, yes, but then many things in Bond-dom are far-fetched even in the grittier world of DC. That said, I fear they've made the DC5 a self-contained unit and moving forward there will be no return of these specific M, Q, and MPs (we'll get new, fresh, unsullied M,Q, and MPs), and we'll just pick-up in some parallel universe and start a new Bond thread-line.

  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,908MI6 Agent

    Yeah, that's a great point. To me, there's a lot of slop in No Time to Die, both in terms of the drama and the details. I felt the same with Skyfall, but they poured on the sentimentality, so a lot of audiences looked the other way. This one tries to do similarly, but the middle sags, to the degree that I wasn't caught up enough in the strangely flat domestic stuff to not pay as much attention in the climax.

  • JTBondJTBond Posts: 82MI6 Agent

    I am intrigued by the points you made! It would certainly be a more uplifting outcome knowing Bond was indeed alive. But they would have to continue the storyline with Craig somehow who has vowed to never do another one again. Who knows, maybe that's all part of the big plan to really sell his death as authentic. Maybe the smartblood was in fact the antidote in case Bond came in contact with the nanobots. If any of it kept Bond alive I'd bite hook, line, and sinker!

  • JTBondJTBond Posts: 82MI6 Agent

    One thing I have thought about too is why did Bond need to be injected with smartblood again? There's no reference in Spectre that it eventually wears out.


  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,908MI6 Agent

    I truly don't expect another Bond film with Craig. The only scenario where I see that happening is if Craig's film career is flagging and the Bond producers fear a box office disaster without him and somehow dangle enough money to make it worth Craig's wile while, perhaps, agreeing to finance some vanity projects he has. I just think the writers have left enough at the end of No Time to Die for the possibility, remote as it may be.

  • The Domino EffectThe Domino Effect Posts: 3,311MI6 Agent

    ...or they've left enough at the end for the next Bond film (post extravagant but-lower-budget PTS), to have the new Bond toss his hat onto the hat stand, flirt with Naomi Harris at her desk, stroll through the padded door into Ralph Fiennes' office to be greeted with: "Ah, 007, good to see you back and fully recovered from that nasty explosion, bullet wounds, and that nanobot business, although looking a little different, might I say? Now, Bond, we are having a spot of bother with a peculiar chap in the Caribbean named No, Doctor Julius No..."

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 31,983Chief of Staff

    Thank you, TDE, that'll make a nice Imaginary Conversation soon. ☺️

  • ichaiceichaice LondonPosts: 455MI6 Agent

    Or Bond could walk in to see Moneypenny and M and say……. That last mission……nearly killed me!

    Yes. Considerably!

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lukey_sparrow/
  • johnraidersjohnraiders Posts: 89MI6 Agent

    Craig has Knives Out sequels galore

  • The Domino EffectThe Domino Effect Posts: 3,311MI6 Agent


    Imaginary? Imaginary, my good man? Why I'll have you know that Babs has me working on the script as we speak. Not to give too much away, but the lower-budget PTS is comprised of a chase through a Reading shopping centre on e-scooters, including - wait for it! - the wrong way on an escalator, believe it or not!!

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 31,983Chief of Staff

    😁😁😁 Well, I hope she won't mind too much...

  • The Domino EffectThe Domino Effect Posts: 3,311MI6 Agent

    She's happy with it, Barbel, as long as I guarantee that it's the largest e-scooter/escalator stunt ever put to film!

  • Royale-les-EauxRoyale-les-Eaux LondonPosts: 529MI6 Agent

    e-scooters?!...no need to make it look like an accident 007, just sit back and wait...

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 31,983Chief of Staff
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 9,365MI6 Agent

    Is this thread about the box office?

    Couple of things - there can't be much 'buzz' about this film because to be fair many are very good at suppressing spoilers, so there won't be much to talk about, you can't talk about it!

    Secondly, those who love it may not want to go again, compared to Bond fans who dislike it and won't go several times. That said, many are saying they'll go multiple times so who can say? It is a long movie to sit through twice however.

    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • The Domino EffectThe Domino Effect Posts: 3,311MI6 Agent

    The "buzz" to which I referred was the buzz of excitement that it was opening or playing and friends, family, and co-workers who aren't raving Bond fans being eager to go and see it. That buzz is there now for Dune even amongst people I know who couldn't tell you who Frank Herbert was, think Denis Villeneuve was a racing car driver, and aren't even big sci-fi buffs, but even in the weeks or days leading up to NTTD things were subdued. I thought that would change once it opened, but it really didn't. Now I know that many people got out of the habit of going to the cinema because of Covid and many of those still haven't got into the habit of returning, but the lack of buzz for a Bond film - especially for one following on from the box office success of Spectre and Skyfall which appealed to even non-Bond fans (not to mention it being DC's last 007 outing) - was surprising and disappointing to me.

    Perhaps things would have picked-up thanks to word of mouth once it opened, but, as you say NP, there has been less word of mouth than normal because there isn't much to talk about without revealing pretty massive spoilers. Or maybe there has been word of mouth and that has been what has been putting people off going. I'm only speaking of people I know, but NTTD has been received unlike any Bond film in my life.

  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,915Quartermasters
    edited October 21

    Going to see NTTD for a third time tomorrow...with someone who - amazingly - hasn't had it spoiled for her. I hope it has better legs than its detractors predict...but either way - like OHMSS, symmetrically - I believe it will loom large in the rear-view mirror of Bond history, as will Craigger's very polarizing (but undeniably successful) tenure.

    "Give him a chance." - Loeffelholz, circa 2005

    "Blood & Ashes"...AVAILABLE on Amazon.co.uk: Get 'Jaded': Blood & Ashes: The Debut Oscar Jade Thriller
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • RevelatorRevelator Posts: 353MI6 Agent

    I don't think NTTD will loom large at all. It's already fully enclosed (or trapped) in its own continuity and has taken Bond's personal life as far as the series can go without sabotaging its fantasy appeal. Perhaps the wisest thing future Bond films could do is ignore NTTD.

    In the 70s and 80s the Bond films felt the need to acknowledge OHMSS because the series still maintained loose continuity. Though DAF was deliberately ambiguous about its predecessor's existence, during the Roger Moore era OHMSS was used to establish the continuity between different Bond actors and films. The references to Bond's wife in TSWLM and FYEO connected the Moore era to OHMSS, which was in turn connected to the Connery films. The same applies to LTK's reference to Bond being married. OHMSS was used by the series to show Bond was the same character with the same adventures no matter who played him, and that the series' continuity transcended the actors who played Bond.

    NTTD send the exact opposite message. It can't be used like OHMSS to build continuity or tradition. The film is the end of the line for its continuity and will cause the series to be rebooted. Not just because Bond died, but because Bond can't run around with a wife and kid waiting at home for him. Future Bond films are not going to reference this. NTTD will also cause a course correction because there's nothing left to do with Bond's personal life. We've already seen him meet the love of his life and have a kid. What's left?

    For all these reasons, NTTD might be eventually seen as a dead-end street for James Bond, regardless of its quality. And I doubt future Bond films will be stealing dialogue or entire songs from it. It will remain in the shadow of OHMSS.

  • ichaiceichaice LondonPosts: 455MI6 Agent

    NTTD was the number 1 film in the USA on Wednesday. Only took about $2.2M though.

    Yes. Considerably!

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lukey_sparrow/
  • chrisno1chrisno1 LondonPosts: 1,505MI6 Agent

    What only on Wednesday ?

  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,618MI6 Agent

    I don't know. NTTD to appears to be doing very well in Europe and China while it still hasn't even opened in some other markets. US box office may be disappointing and lower than projected but it's not a disaster. The run time certainly isn't helping with reduced showings and of course there's always COVID and the age group that Bond appears to skew to these days in the US. The film also had a very difficult and troubled gestation period before filming even began which helped fuel tons of negative speculation on the internet which continued during the actual production with all the "woke" and "neutered" Bond stuff. If you believed some of that nonsense it felt like Bond was going to be a supporting character in NTTD. That even continued when the film was actually released with click bait headlines reinforcing the "woke" and "neutered" stuff by people who hadn't even actually seen the film yet. That all being said, I think that EON / Craig probably did more damage to the films box office by how bloody long it took to finally get the film rolling at all. Throw in the departure of the original director and writer and having to start over and then just the plain bad luck of a worldwide pandemic...well you certainly set the stage for a bit of a disappointment at the box office. I've only seen it once and probably will not see it again in a theater primarily because I am just not completely comfortable with taking another chance with COVID, not because I disliked it. I saw all the other Craig films multiple times in theaters. Another reason, like quite a few other people I know, invested in a much bigger television (75" 4K) and installed 5.1 channel surround sound in my home, ironically partially fueled by the possibility of NTTD going directly to VOD. I will do my subsequent viewings of NTTD via the 4k Blu Ray when it comes out. IMO, it's a flawed, but still good Bond film with more than it's share of actual brilliance. Ultimately, it will turn a profit and James Bond will be back in some form one way or another.

  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,908MI6 Agent

    No Time to Die will make a profit -- the only real question is how much. In this case, though, it seems to be dropping further in the U.S. Forbes is revising its expectations by about $30 million less than original predictions, though the writer notes that Bond will pass the $500 million worldwide mark this weekend and likely still end up grossing more than CR and QoS:

    "No Time to Die earned another $3.579 million on its third Friday, dropping 50% and setting itself up for a $12 million (-50%) third-weekend gross. That’ll give the 25th official James Bond movie a $120 million 17-day cume, with expectations now closer to $155 million than $185 million for a domestic finish."


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2021/10/23/friday-box-office-halloween-kills-plunges-80-as-no-time-to-die-tops-500m-venom-2-tops-300m/?sh=42a9a2cf1680

  • Royale-les-EauxRoyale-les-Eaux LondonPosts: 529MI6 Agent

    This should allay most of your concerns, though...there is no universe in which making a profit at this point in time isn't seen as a wild success by the studio and others. Also, ultimately the US market has never been as kind or important to Bond as the commensurate volume of media coverage would suggest.

  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,618MI6 Agent

    Very good points. European, Asian, and other currency count at the office too and in the end it all adds up. While the US still has the most cinema screens in the world, other countries still have significant numbers of screens and tend to fill those seats better when it comes to Bond. IMAX is also very, very popular in China (most big Chinese films get IMAX releases in China and even some non-Chinese films have gotten exclusive China only releases in IMAX....which bodes well for NTTD.

  • Andy007Andy007 Posts: 99MI6 Agent
    edited October 25

    So is No Time to Die set to be the biggest Bond flop at the box office? After a month in, it's hit $520m, nowhere near Spectre's $880m+ or Skyfall's $1b return. Apparently the film needs to hit $800 or 900+ just to break even or make any profit.. pandemic is generally clear, so what's gone wrong? After inflation is this the lowest grossing Bond film? It seems that's the case

  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,618MI6 Agent

    While things may be on the upturn regarding the pandemic, unfortunately it is far from over, especially in some areas of the US where infection and hospitalization rates are still relatively high. The other thing to consider is that the pandemic has changed people's viewing habits relative to venue, especially the somewhat unfortunate aging demographic of Bond. Of course, all things considered, there was a time that we faced the very real possibility that NTTD would never get out to cinemas and go directly to VOD. There were some who posted here who actually were of a mind that EON should do just that to just get the film out.

  • JTBondJTBond Posts: 82MI6 Agent
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